How people on my Server are making 1 Million a day from farming Cabinets, Drawers etc.

Merlin13KAGL · June 2018

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Do you get tasked with a goal like "make dinner" which could be as simple as "baked potatoes and steak" and choose to do make it by harvesting the potatoes yourself and butchering the cow yourself or do you go with the quicker easier store-bought items that are available?

Of course not, but I also don't make statements like "Cutting the baked potato in half and adding butter would be a waste of preparer resources."

And FYI, you're assuming they actually do have a cooldown because none of you can provide any evidence of this specific type of cooldown except anecdotes that can be explained through the fact that it is server based RNG(only smart way to do RNG because the server is the master to prevent cheating) where other players are making up other attempts at looting in between and at the same time as your own attempts. This means a 1/100 drop chance is not your own 100 attempts but the conglomerate 100 attempts by all players.

Your insistence that Server side RNG cannot coexist with a Server side cooldown (timer object attached to account or character, based on desired effect) is blinding you to other possibilities.
That's the part that makes it clear you don't know the possibilities, as you're trying to exclude others to make yours appear correct.

Me wrote:

I vaguely recall a Dev post some time back regarding either drop rate and/or cooldown regarding tier of certain items, specifically recipes and motifs.

Don't accuse me of assuming when you are doing the same thing and assume that will shut me up. I know I am making educated logical probability assessments while you are just trying to "logical fallacy" your way out of this.

I flat out said it's all speculation until there's Dev response.
[removed baiting comment]
Your educated logical probability assessments are free to be wrong, just as the opposing theory is.
Until it's proven, that's still just another word for "guess."

Feel free to rant to your heart's content. At the present time, you still have no proof. Same as everyone else here.
At least others are admitting there's a chance they could be incorrect.

Mystrius_Archaion · June 2018

SickDuck wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

SickDuck wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Why would you need alt accounts? if you logout and back in again all the containers refresh...

There is a timer for most of the drops. I think green recipes are 5 minutes. blue are 1 hour and I'm not sure on purples. This is just what I've noticed. If you pull a purple or blue, you'll want to swap toons and avoid the cooldown. It also prevents the situation you may see which has all the cabinets empty if you simply log out and back in on the same toon.

1) Instances have a reset timer. You relog and you often enter the same copy unless there are more copies due to being full. This is how "megaservers" work.

2) You can reset the containers of an instance guaranteed by leaving the loading screen door of the instance and going back in. Guaranteed works 100% of the time so long as you see the other zone on the other side of the loading screen, aka don't disconnect and relog into the same instance.

3) There is no cooldown on the drops, just RNG lower chances that make it seem like a cooldown. If there was a cooldown then they would tie it to your @ name and multiple characters wouldn't work at all either. If they wanted to do a cooldown for the reason of slowing farming then they would do that, especially since it reduces the server side calculations to 1 per @ name rather than 1 per character name.

I don’t farm these days but there was a cooldown on recipes and motifs in early days. I remember farming dwemer motif pages when it was released. The drop rate was decent, you could always get one in a few minutes. And then 2 hours of silence... unless you switched toons and repeat.

If you are still in doubt just think about the 5 mins delve boss loot cooldowns. They do exist and easy to verify.

Mind you it is not based on instance but global. Instance based would be insane.

My big question for all of you is what would be the purpose of the supposed cooldown that would make its existence worth the time and effort and risk of bugs to add to the game code over everything else already there?
Is a cooldown meant to slow down acquisition of specific items? If so then what purpose would RNG have when it is meant to slow down acquisition of items? Why have 2 systems doing the exact same job?

The delve boss cooldowns are completely different. They're not per item or rarity level of the item or multiple bosses tied together. They're that boss and only that boss to encourage people to go around to multiple bosses and prevent exploiting easy bosses.
I also feel that those cooldowns are absolutely pointless considering the delve bosses take the exact same amount of effort to defeat each and every time anyway.

Also, if you were to compare the supposed container loot cooldowns to delve boss loot cooldowns then 2 things would need to be true:
1) The cooldown is the refilling of the container, caused by zoning out and back in or relogging to the same or another character(which you all believe is true). The refilling would be the only cooldown then.
2) The container should not refill every time you zone then and should track a full 5 minute wait like delve bosses.

But then if those were true even, why do bosses drop a purple motif, sometimes the same motif, twice in a row when you kill the boss and then do so again 5 minutes later on the next respawn? The rate is too high for a purple cooldown that supposedly wants us to wait 45 minutes to over an hour according to most people.
Also, delve bosses respawn instantly for anyone needing the achievement for their defeat and even often the quest progression point needed for that boss. Recipes and motifs don't even bother checking if you already have learned them and you get repeats.

If a cooldown really exists then it should and would check for whether or not you already know that recipe/motif on that character to make it more likely that the next one you get is one you don't already know. It doesn't though so what is the point of the cooldown that you say supposedly exists? Is it to add to a duration to slow players down even more than RNG already does when RNG can already be tweaked to make any length of delay happen anyway? Why use 2 systems compounded on each other to make a specific result happen when one simpler easier to code system can and does do the same thing much simpler and easier with fewer possible bugs??

There are lot of misconceptions here.

1. Cooldowns - especially global ones - are very easy to implement. It does not add any complexity whatsoever.

They can't be global though. Each container is different and pulls from different loot tables. You don't find the same loot in cabinets as you do in urns or in backpacks every time. You also don't find the same loot in the same type of backpack in Summerset versus Wrothgar versus Craglorn versus Coldharbour.

And if they were to limit player acquisition of items and so easy to implement then why is it not based on @username?

Nobody ever answers that question. Why is there a supposed cooldown that is so easy to implement and yet is so easy for players to work around when they have the technology to check username conditions so readily available and common as used in every collections tab item?

And yes, it would add complexity and calculations because not only would the server have to generate a random number to determine what drops from the loot table but also have a timer to check for each and every container type, which would also require one of them taking priority over the other calculation adding another layer of complexity to coding.

Coding is mostly (if X = A then Y, else x = B then Z) and so on for however many different variables. You have to then put that into a whole other if/then/else statement when you throw in cooldowns that would then cause so many more possible bugs as well or wasted processor calculations when a much simpler system that is more reliable would save system resources by being simpler.

Why do you assume cooldowns for these recipes are the gospel truth? None of you has proof. You just "feel it is true".
You can't even provide reasons why it would be true like I have that are based on logic and human nature.
You just were told it one day years ago by somebody, who you can't even remember, about one instance of drops, and you assume it applies to everything and is completely true.

What koolaid are you drinking?

Merlin13KAGL · June 2018

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

1. Cooldowns - especially global ones - are very easy to implement. It does not add any complexity whatsoever.

They can't be global though. Each container is different and pulls from different loot tables. You don't find the same loot in cabinets as you do in urns or in backpacks every time. You also don't find the same loot in the same type of backpack in Summerset versus Wrothgar versus Craglorn versus Coldharbour.

Do you realize a single timer object can be attached to the character or the @account? It doesn't need to be attached to each container.

Player accesses a container. Container code checks the single timer to determine if the cooldown tier has passed. Server then spawns loot based on container type, character level, zone, and level quality allowed, as normal.

Again, just because you can't think of a elegant method in which to implement the functionality doesn't mean the functionality is impossible to implement or does not exist.

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Nobody ever answers that question. Why is there a supposed cooldown that is so easy to implement and yet is so easy for players to work around when they have the technology to check username conditions so readily available and common as used in every collections tab item?

Because there would still be a limit to the amount of a certain tier of item per account, simply because there is a limit to the number of character slots available. Add that to the drop rate %, and it still limits the average number of certain tier drops.

Someone with 15 character slots and a one hour cooldown, will have max chance of 15 items per hour, on perfect roll.
Someone with 1 will have one.

In either case, it still works to limit the amount available when coupled with the RNG drop rates.

Question answered.

Mystrius_Archaion · June 2018

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Anecdotes all of them.
You could only accurately test this if you were the only person farming any container that they can possibly drop from across the entire server, which is impossible.
This would be a delusion because even though I didn't farm the code is server based so it was as if I had farmed because of other players. My odds looked really good because I was missing data on the sample size..

I was the single guy who tested this kind of cooldowns during the last closed PTS round on PC EU. I am pretty sure I was the only person trying to figure out Ayleid diagram drop patterns on the PTS server in the middle of the night. And I can say, that there is some cooldown algorithm in place. It doesn't prevent you from getting more drops per hour. Actually it is used to make you get recipe drops guaranteed with certain frequency. It means, that if you farm for 10 hours, you have 95% probablility that you will find 10 purple recipes during this session. Also It seems that there is some cliff after which your chances of getting the recipe get much lower.

That's the exact opposite of what everyone else is saying though. They believe you need to swap characters because a cooldown is preventing you from getting more.

I'm not arguing against drop chance weighting, which is what you are talking about, that increases your chances of getting items to prevent unlucky RNG streaks from causing a sour experience.
I'm arguing against the "RNG isn't good enough to make drops rare so they have a cooldown also" claims that people are making.

It's like they think the developers are out to get them and yet have given us this convenient loophole of switching characters to reset this "cooldown" that the developers were not smart enough to predict and close off even by simply having it check "@username" instead of "character name".

"The developers want it to take us more time but we outsmarted them and just switch characters so it doesn't take more time. They would never figure that out. It's not like another player can talk to use with '/t @username' and not have to change anything when we switch characters to continue the conversation."

It's simple. Either a cooldown exists and the developers are too dumb to code it properly based on @username or the cooldown(preventing drops) doesn't exist and people are just superstitiously believing in a cooldown pattern because people are superstitious and believe in patterns.

Mystrius_Archaion · June 2018

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

Also, I tested this theory in the same conditions on the live server and found out that drop rates are not the same. It means, that there is also some server-wide counter that prevents the whole server from getting too many recipes per hour/per day and maybe per week.

No. The drop rate code did not change.
What happened is that you had fewer competing drop farmers on PTS and then more on Live.

You took a pure 1/100 drop chance(arbitrary for easy calculation) on PTS all by yourself and then added in thousands more players. Overall, the drop chance is still 1/100, but you are 1 in 10000 at any given time(arbitrary number again).
The server side coding means the chance for you now is 100/10000 but that can go to any of the 10000 farming players. Your odds actually got worse simply because of RNG streaks.

Try flipping a coin 100 times and it will go to the same side multiple times in a row even if it averages out to be a 50/50 ratio. Now add another person in there who gets to call whether they want heads or tails. They could be extremely lucky or extremely unlucky due to their own choices(equivalent to time of looting versus other players) and the RNG coin flip streaks.

Your own anecdotal evidence is just more evidence of a pure RNG system without any biased cooldown.

Mystrius_Archaion · June 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Your insistence that Server side RNG cannot coexist with a Server side cooldown (timer object attached to account or character, based on desired effect) is blinding you to other possibilities.
That's the part that makes it clear you don't know the possibilities, as you're trying to exclude others to make yours appear correct.

So why have the developers allowed us to supposedly bypass said cooldown by switching characters when they implemented the "@username" functionality in this game and have other code that checks if your account @username meets certain qualifications or not?

Your own belief in cooldown relies on that. It depends on the developers, essentially, "being too dumb to code it to check @username".

You all say it. "Do 'this' to bypass the cooldown."
WTF?! How is that smart? They haven't caught wind of this easy exploit yet? The developers clearly left this big hole in their code for us to drive an aircraft carrier through and yet they want this cooldown to work to limit supply?!

Seriously, that's so obviously not likely to the point of being completely ridiculous to believe in.

if a cooldown limiting supply of recipes really exists then the developers must be too stupid to make it really work because we all can bypass it stupid easily.

Merlin13KAGL · June 2018

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Your insistence that Server side RNG cannot coexist with a Server side cooldown (timer object attached to account or character, based on desired effect) is blinding you to other possibilities.
That's the part that makes it clear you don't know the possibilities, as you're trying to exclude others to make yours appear correct.

So why have the developers allowed us to supposedly bypass said cooldown by switching characters when they implemented the "@username" functionality in this game and have other code that checks if your account @username meets certain qualifications or not?

Your own belief in cooldown relies on that. It depends on the developers, essentially, "being too dumb to code it to check @username".

You all say it. "Do 'this' to bypass the cooldown."
WTF?! How is that smart? They haven't caught wind of this easy exploit yet? The developers clearly left this big hole in their code for us to drive an aircraft carrier through and yet they want this cooldown to work to limit supply?!

Seriously, that's so obviously not likely to the point of being completely ridiculous to believe in.

if a cooldown limiting supply of recipes really exists then the developers must be too stupid to make it really work because we all can bypass it stupid easily.

Scroll up. Aleady asked and answered.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Nobody ever answers that question. Why is there a supposed cooldown that is so easy to implement and yet is so easy for players to work around when they have the technology to check username conditions so readily available and common as used in every collections tab item?

Because there would still be a limit to the amount of a certain tier of item per account, simply because there is a limit to the number of character slots available. Add that to the drop rate %, and it still limits the average number of certain tier drops.

Someone with 15 character slots and a one hour cooldown, will have max chance of 15 items per hour, on perfect roll.
Someone with 1 will have one.

In either case, it still works to limit the amount available when coupled with the RNG drop rates.

Question answered.

Something might have a drop chance ot 1 in one thousand. The same something on cooldown has a zero chance in 1000.

Mystrius_Archaion · June 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Do you realize a single timer object can be attached to the character or the @account? It doesn't need to be attached to each container.

Then why doesn't it check the @account?

Why are people supposedly able to bypass a developer intended limit by the stupidly easy method of just switching characters?

You just supported my point because you assume there is a cooldown and assume it is to limit supply and still acknowledge a very easy workaround for said intended limit that would be a major and easy to close exploit if they just changed every reference from "character name" to "@account".

So, either expect your workaround to be nerfed so that it doesn't matter if you switch characters or it must be proof that there is no cooldown because no developer would be that dumb as to leave such an easily fixed exploit in place.

Merlin13KAGL · June 2018

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Do you realize a single timer object can be attached to the character or the @account? It doesn't need to be attached to each container.

Then why doesn't it check the @account?

Why are people supposedly able to bypass a developer intended limit by the stupidly easy method of just switching characters?

You just supported my point because you assume there is a cooldown and assume it is to limit supply and still acknowledge a very easy workaround for said intended limit that would be a major and easy to close exploit if they just changed every reference from "character name" to "@account".

So, either expect your workaround to be nerfed so that it doesn't matter if you switch characters or it must be proof that there is no cooldown because no developer would be that dumb as to leave such an easily fixed exploit in place.

Because it doesn't have to.

Again, Something might have a drop chance ot 1 in one thousand. The same something on cooldown has a zero chance in 1000.

Assuming you have 15 character slots, and got perfect RNG on all of them with a 1 hour cooldown, explain to me how you could get 16 drops in an hour of that tier on a single account, and I'll happily concede.

It's like saying you could get 16 (non sharable) dailies from a 15 character account, when the dailies have a per-character cooldown of [fill in the time here].

Mystrius_Archaion · June 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Your insistence that Server side RNG cannot coexist with a Server side cooldown (timer object attached to account or character, based on desired effect) is blinding you to other possibilities.
That's the part that makes it clear you don't know the possibilities, as you're trying to exclude others to make yours appear correct.

So why have the developers allowed us to supposedly bypass said cooldown by switching characters when they implemented the "@username" functionality in this game and have other code that checks if your account @username meets certain qualifications or not?

Your own belief in cooldown relies on that. It depends on the developers, essentially, "being too dumb to code it to check @username".

You all say it. "Do 'this' to bypass the cooldown."
WTF?! How is that smart? They haven't caught wind of this easy exploit yet? The developers clearly left this big hole in their code for us to drive an aircraft carrier through and yet they want this cooldown to work to limit supply?!

Seriously, that's so obviously not likely to the point of being completely ridiculous to believe in.

if a cooldown limiting supply of recipes really exists then the developers must be too stupid to make it really work because we all can bypass it stupid easily.

Scroll up. Aleady asked and answered.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Nobody ever answers that question. Why is there a supposed cooldown that is so easy to implement and yet is so easy for players to work around when they have the technology to check username conditions so readily available and common as used in every collections tab item?

Because there would still be a limit to the amount of a certain tier of item per account, simply because there is a limit to the number of character slots available. Add that to the drop rate %, and it still limits the average number of certain tier drops.

Someone with 15 character slots and a one hour cooldown, will have max chance of 15 items per hour, on perfect roll.
Someone with 1 will have one.

In either case, it still works to limit the amount available when coupled with the RNG drop rates.

Question answered.

Something might have a drop chance ot 1 in one thousand. The same something on cooldown has a zero chance in 1000.

Answered how?
Are the developers stupid, which is why switching characters works, or are you all asking for an exploit you do to be nerfed and possible bans handed out for exploiting?

And a "zero chance on cooldown" is the same as "lower RNG chance" since they are both RNG number. 1/1000 vs 0/1000. It's still a coded "check this number against the RNG number", or at least could be.

You don't need a cooldown to make something take a really long time to get. That would be unnecessary extra wasted time and money(because time is money to a business) to do that sort of double layered check in code. It's not a simple "5 minutes and it's in" piece of code like people believe everything is.

UppGRAYxDD · June 2018

Why would you mention this on the forums...smh

Tan9oSuccka · June 2018

OP?

Mystrius_Archaion · June 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Do you realize a single timer object can be attached to the character or the @account? It doesn't need to be attached to each container.

Then why doesn't it check the @account?

Why are people supposedly able to bypass a developer intended limit by the stupidly easy method of just switching characters?

You just supported my point because you assume there is a cooldown and assume it is to limit supply and still acknowledge a very easy workaround for said intended limit that would be a major and easy to close exploit if they just changed every reference from "character name" to "@account".

So, either expect your workaround to be nerfed so that it doesn't matter if you switch characters or it must be proof that there is no cooldown because no developer would be that dumb as to leave such an easily fixed exploit in place.

Because it doesn't have to.

Again, Something might have a drop chance ot 1 in one thousand. The same something on cooldown has a zero chance in 1000.

A cooldown has to check the "character name" but doesn't have to check the @username/@account ??
Really? The cooldown only matters if people are too lazy to switch characters? Why does the cooldown matter at all if it is so easily bypassed.

Are the developers stupid? Is that what you are saying?
Are they too stupid to switch a reference from "check 'character name'" to "check '@username/@account '" to prevent avoiding their intended cooldown?
Or, is the cooldown being avoided through an exploit that somehow went unfixed for years and still is going unfixed?
Or, is the cooldown a myth that is based on flawed anecdotal observations of drop rates missing sample size data and true calculation data from the server?

Mystrius_Archaion · June 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

It's like saying you could get 16 (non sharable) dailies from a 15 character account, when the dailies have a per-character cooldown of [fill in the time here].

FYI, you can do the same daily multiple times per day using multiple characters, and get the other versions of that daily by sharing with group members. Like, the Summerset world boss and delve dailies can be all done in one day on the same character, just like the Wrothgar dailies, even if you can only collect ONE on that character directly from the NPC quest giver.

That has a workaround for a reason, because it encourages grouping in this thing we call a "massively multiplayer online game".

Your "cooldown on recipes" only has one reason to exist, to prevent players from getting too many drops in a certain time period.
It is a MASSIVE FAILURE at that simply because it allows switching characters, by the admission of everyone who supports the idea of a cooldown.
So, the developers failed to make that work and will continue to fail because they never made it check @username/@account versus character name and will continue to let that pass and everybody and their dog make a fool of them. Do you see how unlikely and stupid that sounds?

You claim the developers are smart enough to make a cooldown that works perfectly for a reason and yet you also claim they are too dumb to make it check @username/@account at the exact same time.
Are they dumb or are they smart?

Merlin13KAGL · June 2018

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

And a "zero chance on cooldown" is the same as "lower RNG chance" since they are both RNG number. 1/1000 vs 0/1000. It's still a coded "check this number against the RNG number", or at least could be.

You don't need a cooldown to make something take a really long time to get. That would be unnecessary extra wasted time and money(because time is money to a business) to do that sort of double layered check in code. It's not a simple "5 minutes and it's in" piece of code like people believe everything is.

Lol.

0 chance in 1000 isn't RNG. It's pretty well, what's the word, guaranteed. You might want to brush up on your probability.

Again, you've clearly never coded with a modern engine. Anyone worth there salt could implement this in 5 minutes and have time left to spare, especially since the timer objects are already made.

The only thing that has to change is implementation of the specific code, which is likely mostly drag and drop, and it's a single additional server side check per container. I'm fairly certain they're not maxing out the processors in the process.

It's still limited by the character slots and the RNG, because you have to successfully navigate both to 'win.' If it's deemed that the drop rate is still too much for those with multiple alts, then they change it over to a per-account implementation (also an easy code) or they lower the drop rate to compensate.

It's not rocket science. It's coding 101.

Merlin13KAGL · June 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

It's like saying you could get 16 (non sharable) dailies from a 15 character account, when the dailies have a per-character cooldown of [fill in the time here].

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

FYI, you can do the same daily multiple times per day using multiple characters, and get the other versions of that daily by sharing with group members

Because reading's hard.

Iluvrien · June 2018

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Your "cooldown on recipes" only has one reason to exist, to prevent players from getting too many drops in a certain time period.
It is a MASSIVE FAILURE at that simply because it allows switching characters, by the admission of everyone who supports the idea of a cooldown.
So, the developers failed to make that work and will continue to fail because they never made it check @account versus character name and will continue to let that pass and everybody and their dog make a fool of them. Do you see how unlikely and stupid that sounds?

Because to have a cooldown that checked account and not character would actively work against people who have alts.

The function of a recipe is to be read and learned by a single character.

By making the cooldown global across the account, it would mean that the person playing 8 characters would have exactly the same chance to find a drop in a set amount of time as someone who is playing one character.

The problem being that the person playing one character only has to learn the recipe once and then they have access to it on "all of their characters". For the same thing to be true for the other person, they need to find the same recipe 8 times.

If the cooldown exists, then why discriminate against those who play alts as well?

Cryptical · June 2018

5 minute Delve boss cooldown during the event was all bosses, not just that one boss. It was testable. Each boss gave a guaranteed item, and with fast travel plus rapids it is easily possible to get from one boss to another and kill it within those 5 minutes - and not get the reward drop. The numbers of people farming delve bosses made them melt.

Setting the rng to variably push a chance of reward higher - that’s called setting a floor for how many of X are in circulation.

Setting the rng to variably drop the chance of reward lower - that’s called setting a ceiling.

We know they set floors and ceilings. We know they sometimes raise or lower those floors and ceilings. So anyone claiming that it would be too complicated to bother coding such things into item drops needs to look at the size of the game download and have a long think about how they could have been so blind.

Mystrius_Archaion · June 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

And a "zero chance on cooldown" is the same as "lower RNG chance" since they are both RNG number. 1/1000 vs 0/1000. It's still a coded "check this number against the RNG number", or at least could be.

You don't need a cooldown to make something take a really long time to get. That would be unnecessary extra wasted time and money(because time is money to a business) to do that sort of double layered check in code. It's not a simple "5 minutes and it's in" piece of code like people believe everything is.

Lol.

0 chance in 1000 isn't RNG. It's pretty well, what's the word, guaranteed. You might want to brush up on your probability.

FYI in coding, 0 is a possible number generated by the RNG.
The way they would code this is "if X = 1-100 then Y, else X = 0 then Z". Its still RNG to save time and lines of code and keep it simple.

Mystrius_Archaion · June 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

It's like saying you could get 16 (non sharable) dailies from a 15 character account, when the dailies have a per-character cooldown of [fill in the time here].

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

FYI, you can do the same daily multiple times per day using multiple characters, and get the other versions of that daily by sharing with group members

Because reading's hard.

You typed a confusing stupid fallacy statement. It's your fault.
I read it as a lot of other people would have. Welcome to the confusion caused by not being clear enough.

Edit:
You still haven't answered my question. Do you think the developers are dumb or smart?
Do you think them too dumb to code it to check @username or smart enough to have made this cooldown and have it work perfectly without being able to bypass it by switching characters?

xilfxlegion · June 2018

reguvin wrote: »

A friend send me screenshot that he saw people using 8 Alt Accounts Farming Cabinets for Purple Recipes from Alinor, Summerset.

The Recipes go for 200 up to 500k each because they are new epic Recipes.

Have people tried this? And why do people do this?

that room is a gold mine. i have pulled 4 imperial motifs in the last two weeks, and two purple alinor blueprints. along with about 15 blue ones.

Merlin13KAGL · June 2018

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

And a "zero chance on cooldown" is the same as "lower RNG chance" since they are both RNG number. 1/1000 vs 0/1000. It's still a coded "check this number against the RNG number", or at least could be.

You don't need a cooldown to make something take a really long time to get. That would be unnecessary extra wasted time and money(because time is money to a business) to do that sort of double layered check in code. It's not a simple "5 minutes and it's in" piece of code like people believe everything is.

Lol.

0 chance in 1000 isn't RNG. It's pretty well, what's the word, guaranteed. You might want to brush up on your probability.

FYI in coding, 0 is a possible number generated by the RNG.
The way they would code this is "if X = 1-100 then Y, else X = 0 then Z". Its still RNG to save time and lines of code and keep it simple.

Let's simplify with a coin flip:

One in two chances it comes up 'tails.'
One in two chances it comes up 'heads.'
Zero chances in 2 that it turns into a ham sandwich.

Here's a different one: One lane is closed on your way work:

There's a 25% chance you'll get diverted to the right lane.
There's a 25% chance you'll get diverted to the left lane.
There's a 25% chance you'll have to stop and wait until it's cleared.
There's a 25% chance you'll have to turn around and go another way.
There's a zero percent chance your car will sprout wings and flap its way to your destination.

If it's on cooldown, there doesn't even need to be and RNG check for that tier item.

Mystrius_Archaion · June 2018

Cryptical wrote: »

5 minute Delve boss cooldown during the event was all bosses, not just that one boss. It was testable. Each boss gave a guaranteed item, and with fast travel plus rapids it is easily possible to get from one boss to another and kill it within those 5 minutes - and not get the reward drop. The numbers of people farming delve bosses made them melt.

Setting the rng to variably push a chance of reward higher - that’s called setting a floor for how many of X are in circulation.

Setting the rng to variably drop the chance of reward lower - that’s called setting a ceiling.

We know they set floors and ceilings. We know they sometimes raise or lower those floors and ceilings. So anyone claiming that it would be too complicated to bother coding such things into item drops needs to look at the size of the game download and have a long think about how they could have been so blind.

The people claiming "a cooldown on recipes exists" are saying the developers coded both the RNG floor/ceiling and also added a cooldown timer on top of that to add a length of time before that RNG floor even takes effect.

So you not only have to wait for 100 containers, on average RNG chance, for a recipe, but 45 minutes or more has to pass since your last recipe before you can then begin that 100 container counter.

Does nobody know how most item set procs work that say both a chance of activation and a cooldown? They require the cooldown to end before they even start calculating chance so it ends up being, for example, a 5 second cooldown and then a 10% chance where you have to wait for the 10th hit after that 5 seconds, not including before, for it to activate. That's if the RNG was perfect.

If there was a cooldown on recipes then they would be much slower to get than even the cooldown proponents suggest.

Edit:
By the way, it wasn't just during events for boss cooldowns on loot. All bosses do have a 4-5 minute loot cooldown where you only get gold if you defeat them before that timer, but their respawn timer is synced to that. The only time their respawn gets out of sync is the special code to immediately spawn the specific boss for those that need the achievement from the boss or quest progress counter.

Cryptical · June 2018

Simple reason to make these cool downs based on character rather than account - characters learn things and remove the item from circulation without decreasing the need for your other characters to learn things.

Farming recipes - just because your crafter character learned the dubious throne doesn’t mean your drop chance for it should drop to zero, because your raiding character also deserves its own fair chance at getting that drop and learning the recipe. Or would you prefer to have to switch to your crafter whenever you needed to make more?

The same is true of motifs. If you want your main to have the motifs learned achievement as well as have your crafter know them, then your characters need to be treated as separate.

SO! Character based rng!

CHARACTER-BASED IS INTENTIONAL!

Mystrius_Archaion · June 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

And a "zero chance on cooldown" is the same as "lower RNG chance" since they are both RNG number. 1/1000 vs 0/1000. It's still a coded "check this number against the RNG number", or at least could be.

You don't need a cooldown to make something take a really long time to get. That would be unnecessary extra wasted time and money(because time is money to a business) to do that sort of double layered check in code. It's not a simple "5 minutes and it's in" piece of code like people believe everything is.

Lol.

0 chance in 1000 isn't RNG. It's pretty well, what's the word, guaranteed. You might want to brush up on your probability.

FYI in coding, 0 is a possible number generated by the RNG.
The way they would code this is "if X = 1-100 then Y, else X = 0 then Z". Its still RNG to save time and lines of code and keep it simple.

Let's simplify with a coin flip:
One in two chances it comes up 'tails.'

One in two chances it comes up 'heads.'

Zero chances in 2 that it turns into a ham sandwich.

Here's a different one: One lane is closed on your way work:
There's a 253% chance you'll get diverted to the right lane.

There's a 25% chance you'll get diverted to the left lane.

There's a 25% chance you'll have to stop and wait until it's cleared.

There's a 25% chance you'll have to turn around and go another way.

There's a zero percent chance your car will sprout wings and flap its way to your destination.

If it's on cooldown, there doesn't even need to be and RNG check for that tier item.

Are the developers dumb enough to put in a cooldown we can easily bypass by switching characters?

Are the developers smart enough to not leave an obvious easy bypass to said cooldown and thus either are going to close that loophole or never made a cooldown so that's why switching characters works?

If they implemented a cooldown that they want to work, why leave a bypass exploit open?

Answer that if you can without questioning whether a cooldown exists or really doesn't exist.

Merlin13KAGL · June 2018

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

It's like saying you could get 16 (non sharable) dailies from a 15 character account, when the dailies have a per-character cooldown of [fill in the time here].

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

FYI, you can do the same daily multiple times per day using multiple characters, and get the other versions of that daily by sharing with group members

Because reading's hard.

You typed a confusing stupid fallacy statement. It's your fault.
I read it as a lot of other people would have. Welcome to the confusion caused by not being clear enough.

That's *** hilarious. It's my fault because I wasn't clear enough, by specifying the very stipulation I was pretty sure you'd otherwise run with? Okay.

Edit:
You still haven't answered my question. Do you think the developers are dumb or smart?
Do you think them too dumb to code it to check @username or smart enough to have made this cooldown and have it work perfectly without being able to bypass it by switching characters?

I think a per character cooldown along with drop rate % is sufficient to limit the result.

It gives a chance of said item, rewarding additional alts (as it should), but still limiting the maximum yield due to character slot limitations.

Do I think the Devs are dumb or smart? I don't get to say this often, but I suspect in this case, it's working as intended.

I think there's a third (or more) possibility that you either refuse to acknowledge or can't wrap your head around. My argument is pretty clear (if you read the whole thing, anyway)

Mystrius_Archaion · June 2018

Cryptical wrote: »

Simple reason to make these cool downs based on character rather than account - characters learn things and remove the item from circulation without decreasing the need for your other characters to learn things.

Farming recipes - just because your crafter character learned the dubious throne doesn’t mean your drop chance for it should drop to zero, because your raiding character also deserves its own fair chance at getting that drop and learning the recipe. Or would you prefer to have to switch to your crafter whenever you needed to make more?

The same is true of motifs. If you want your main to have the motifs learned achievement as well as have your crafter know them, then your characters need to be treated as separate.

SO! Character based rng!

CHARACTER-BASED IS INTENTIONAL!

That doesn't decrease supply. They know people have "one crafting character" and they could could never count on people to not exploit this to sell.
If the fact that characters can only learn it once was the reason fro this then they could have made it character bound like the new Artaeum recipes are.

Do you think they would be dumb enough to leave in such an obvious exploit if they really intended a cooldown to limit supply?

Cryptical · June 2018

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

And a "zero chance on cooldown" is the same as "lower RNG chance" since they are both RNG number. 1/1000 vs 0/1000. It's still a coded "check this number against the RNG number", or at least could be.

You don't need a cooldown to make something take a really long time to get. That would be unnecessary extra wasted time and money(because time is money to a business) to do that sort of double layered check in code. It's not a simple "5 minutes and it's in" piece of code like people believe everything is.

Lol.

0 chance in 1000 isn't RNG. It's pretty well, what's the word, guaranteed. You might want to brush up on your probability.

FYI in coding, 0 is a possible number generated by the RNG.
The way they would code this is "if X = 1-100 then Y, else X = 0 then Z". Its still RNG to save time and lines of code and keep it simple.

Let's simplify with a coin flip:
One in two chances it comes up 'tails.'

One in two chances it comes up 'heads.'

Zero chances in 2 that it turns into a ham sandwich.

Here's a different one: One lane is closed on your way work:
There's a 253% chance you'll get diverted to the right lane.

There's a 25% chance you'll get diverted to the left lane.

There's a 25% chance you'll have to stop and wait until it's cleared.

There's a 25% chance you'll have to turn around and go another way.

There's a zero percent chance your car will sprout wings and flap its way to your destination.

If it's on cooldown, there doesn't even need to be and RNG check for that tier item.

Are the developers dumb enough to put in a cooldown we can easily bypass by switching characters?

Are the developers smart enough to not leave an obvious easy bypass to said cooldown and thus either are going to close that loophole or never made a cooldown so that's why switching characters works?

If they implemented a cooldown that they want to work, why leave a bypass exploit open?

Answer that if you can without questioning whether a cooldown exists or really doesn't exist.

It’s not an exploit. Scroll up. There’s reasons for it to be character based.

Character based is intentional!

starlizard70ub17_ESO · June 2018

redspecter23 wrote: »

Mirelurk wrote: »

Which are the good places to loot in Alinor?

Traitor's Vault in Artaeum. There is a ring of 5000 cabinets. There is no way this wasn't put in on purpose for farming. It's just that obvious when you see the room.

There's usually 5 - 7 people in there farming them at any given time.

Mystrius_Archaion · June 2018

Iluvrien wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Your "cooldown on recipes" only has one reason to exist, to prevent players from getting too many drops in a certain time period.
It is a MASSIVE FAILURE at that simply because it allows switching characters, by the admission of everyone who supports the idea of a cooldown.
So, the developers failed to make that work and will continue to fail because they never made it check @account versus character name and will continue to let that pass and everybody and their dog make a fool of them. Do you see how unlikely and stupid that sounds?

Because to have a cooldown that checked account and not character would actively work against people who have alts.

The function of a recipe is to be read and learned by a single character.

By making the cooldown global across the account, it would mean that the person playing 8 characters would have exactly the same chance to find a drop in a set amount of time as someone who is playing one character.

The problem being that the person playing one character only has to learn the recipe once and then they have access to it on "all of their characters". For the same thing to be true for the other person, they need to find the same recipe 8 times.

If the cooldown exists, then why discriminate against those who play alts as well?

1) You only need one crafter to have access to everything on all characters now, especially with the outfit system allowing motifs to be used with only one character knowing it and without actually crafting the gear.
Those with one character or alts are the same then so the supposed cooldown doesn't hurt anyone.

2) The supposed cooldown is meant to limit supply. Why? It is to limit amount of them for sale because they know people only need one copy of anything and will sell the rest. Some people even sell the first copy they get or all copies and don't use any of them until it isn't worth selling anymore due to market flooding reduced sale prices.

So given the above, why would they implement a cooldown to limit supply only to allow people to easily switch characters to bypass the cooldown to get more supply than they intended?
They want us to avoid the system that they want to be in our way?

That's like a road being blocked off just so we can run through the barricade and destroy whatever they are trying to protect or hurt ourselves if it is meant to protect us.