M_TeK_9 wrote: »

Is there no one who knows this?

Is because of the DW passive?

all of them

the question actually is: are the magicka based close range skills like concealed weapon, lava whip or punct strikes considered melee?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/153417/what-is-a-melee-attack
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/235642/what-is-considered-a-melee-attack
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/226778/melee-attacks
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/215955/melee-hits-what-constitutes-as-one
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/77739/melee-damage

And there are 10 more topics asking the same question with no definitive answer from zenimax


I think its about time we received an answer, no? Please... @ZOS_GinaBruno

I thought this had been answered before. While I don't remember the answer, I would guess that all duel wield, bow, & sword/board should be melee. If they are not, then it would only apply to light or heavy attacks. If the answer is somewhere in between likely something is broken or will require further input by ZOS.

Waffennacht wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

I thought this had been answered before. While I don't remember the answer, I would guess that all duel wield, bow, & sword/board should be melee. If they are not, then it would only apply to light or heavy attacks. If the answer is somewhere in between likely something is broken or will require further input by ZOS.

I remember someone saying "melee" attacks were based on the attacks range. Can't remember if anyone mentioned magicka costing moves

It is possible it has changed, but I looked into this when game first came out. I wanted to know what could proc the Imperial "Red Diamond" passive (10% chance to restore 6% max health on melee attack). It seemed to be range based. Magicka-version of Templar Jabs activated it, for example.

Figuring out if you are getting 4% bonus damage from an Orc is tricky. Is that already added to tooltip of a melee attack? Is it before or after mitigation by armor/spell resist? Is it additive or multiplicative? That is, will the closest enemy take 244% more damage from Jabs instead of 240% more damage? Or is it calculated after all other buffs and multipliers are already in place? Red Diamond is easier to be sure about it. Either it procs or it does not. So I would suggest creating an Imperial template character on PTS. Then test different skills and see if they proc Red Diamond.

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

I thought this had been answered before. While I don't remember the answer, I would guess that all duel wield, bow, & sword/board should be melee. If they are not, then it would only apply to light or heavy attacks. If the answer is somewhere in between likely something is broken or will require further input by ZOS.

I remember someone saying "melee" attacks were based on the attacks range. Can't remember if anyone mentioned magicka costing moves

It is possible it has changed, but I looked into this when game first came out. I wanted to know what could proc the Imperial "Red Diamond" passive (10% chance to restore 6% max health on melee attack). It seemed to be range based. Magicka-version of Templar Jabs activated it, for example.

Figuring out if you are getting 4% bonus damage from an Orc is tricky. Is that already added to tooltip of a melee attack? Is it before or after mitigation by armor/spell resist? Is it additive or multiplicative? That is, will the closest enemy take 244% more damage from Jabs instead of 240% more damage? Or is it calculated after all other buffs and multipliers are already in place? Red Diamond is easier to be sure about it. Either it procs or it does not. So I would suggest creating an Imperial template character on PTS. Then test different skills and see if they proc Red Diamond.

It depends on what time frame you mean. Early on around shortly after launch it was all skill based attack moves were magickal & all weapon based moves including inferno staff moves were considered physical attacks; including impulse etc...

This was later revamped but at one time some nightblade skills were looked at as "magickal melee" however I'm not sure if that's still a thing or not. Concealed strike use to be able to go through dodge roll but not any more (this change sucks & needs to be reverted).

Now days if the ability cost magicka then it goes off of spell damage & if it cost stamina it goes off of weapon damage. While this is a bit more straightforward it, combined with the removal of soft caps, have effectively killed hybrid builds.

No one knows for sure because it is very inconsistent. For the majority it is any skill that has an 8m or less range. I looked into this because if the ravaged set. So steel tornado, at the time I looked into it, would not proc ravaged because it was 12m but whirling blades did because the range was within 8m. The odd thing is though that rapid strikes doesn't proc ravaged, which is within the range, logically you would think well maybe that's because it's a channel, but biting jabs (an aoe channel) procs ravager. Weird huh? Get used to spaghetti for dinner everyday.

@TBois @Zeromaz

Looking at things that from proc melee damage, everything under 7m so max range 6m counts as melee does not matter if magicka or stamina.
If anyone want to know what will proc melee.

Flurry is 7m.
Puncturing strike is the only exception, It have a 8x6m range.

TBois wrote: »

No one knows for sure because it is very inconsistent. For the majority it is any skill that has an 8m or less range. I looked into this because if the ravaged set. So steel tornado, at the time I looked into it, would not proc ravaged because it was 12m but whirling blades did because the range was within 8m. The odd thing is though that rapid strikes doesn't proc ravaged, which is within the range, logically you would think well maybe that's because it's a channel, but biting jabs (an aoe channel) procs ravager. Weird huh? Get used to spaghetti for dinner everyday.

I've heard that it was not biting jabs per se that was proccing Ravager, but the burning light passive.

DoonerSeraph wrote: »

I've heard that it was not biting jabs per se that was proccing Ravager, but the burning light passive.

It would be weird, because Burning light has a chance to proc from all Aedric spear abilities that deal damage. Therefore it shouldn't be counted as a melee damage. If that really is the case, then Sorcerer's Implosion passive (under Storm calling skill tree) should have a chance to proc Ravager as well.

However, it wouldn't be a first time something like this is messed up. : )

So I did a quick test on Live that looks for any change in a skill's description tooltip when you purchase a rank of Swift Warrior. What I find are the following skills:

• Bash
• Light Attack (All Stamina skills except bow)
• Heavy Attack (All Stamina skills except bow)
• Aedric Spear - Biting Jabs
• Aedric Spear - Burning Light
• Aedric Spear - Crescent Sweep
• Animal Companions - Wild Guardian
• Ardent Flame - Noxious Breath
• Ardent Flame - Venomous Claw
• Assassination - Ambush
• Assassination - Death Stroke
• Assassination - Incapacitating Strike
• Assassination - Killer's Blade
• Daedric Summoning - Summon Unstable Clannfear
• Draconic Power - Dragon Leap
• Draconic Power - Take Flight
• Dual Wield - Blade Cloak
• Dual Wield - Blood Craze
• Dual Wield - Deadly Cloak
• Dual Wield - Quick Cloak
• Dual Wield - Rending Slashes
• Dual Wield - Steel Tornado
• Dual Wield - Twin Slashes
• Dual Wield - Whirling Blades
• Dual Wield - Whirlwind
• Fighters Guild - Dawnbreaker
• Fighters Guild - Dawnbreaker of Smiting
• Fighters Guild - Flawless Dawnbreaker
• One Hand and Shield - Deep Slash
• One Hand and Shield - Heroic Slash
• One Hand and Shield - Invasion
• One Hand and Shield - Low Slash
• One Hand and Shield - Pierce Armor
• One Hand and Shield - Power Bash
• One Hand and Shield - Power Slam
• One Hand and Shield - Puncture
• One Hand and Shield - Ransack
• One Hand and Shield - Reverberating Bash
• One Hand and Shield - Shield Charge
• One Hand and Shield - Shielded Assault
• Psijic Order - Crushing Weapon
• Psijic Order - Imbue Weapon
• Shadow - Surprise Attack
• Siphoning - Power Extraction
• Siphoning - Soul Shred
• Storm Calling - Implosion
• Storm Calling - Implosion
• Two Handed - Berserker Rage
• Two Handed - Berserker Strike
• Two Handed - Brawler
• Two Handed - Carve
• Two Handed - Cleave
• Two Handed - Critical Charge
• Two Handed - Critical Rush
• Two Handed - Dizzying Swing
• Two Handed - Executioner
• Two Handed - Onslaught
• Two Handed - Reverse Slash
• Two Handed - Reverse Slice
• Two Handed - Stampede
• Two Handed - Uppercut
• Two Handed - Wrecking Blow
• Undaunted - Shadow Silk
• Undaunted - Tangling Webs
• Undaunted - Trapping Webs
• Werewolf - Brutal Pounce
• Werewolf - Claws of Anguish
• Werewolf - Claws of Life
• Werewolf - Feral Pounce
• Werewolf - Infectious Claws
• Werewolf - Pounce

Now that doesn't guarantee these skills are affected by the passive as sometimes the tooltip and actual skill aren't the same but gives us a good baseline at least.

Own wrote: »

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

So I did a quick test on Live that looks for any change in a skill's description tooltip when you purchase a rank of Swift Warrior. What I find are the following skills:

• Bash
• Light Attack (All Stamina skills except bow)
• Heavy Attack (All Stamina skills except bow)
• Aedric Spear - Biting Jabs
• Aedric Spear - Burning Light
• Aedric Spear - Crescent Sweep
• Animal Companions - Wild Guardian
• Ardent Flame - Noxious Breath
• Ardent Flame - Venomous Claw
• Assassination - Ambush
• Assassination - Death Stroke
• Assassination - Incapacitating Strike
• Assassination - Killer's Blade
• Daedric Summoning - Summon Unstable Clannfear
• Draconic Power - Dragon Leap
• Draconic Power - Take Flight
• Dual Wield - Blade Cloak
• Dual Wield - Blood Craze
• Dual Wield - Deadly Cloak
• Dual Wield - Quick Cloak
• Dual Wield - Rending Slashes
• Dual Wield - Steel Tornado
• Dual Wield - Twin Slashes
• Dual Wield - Whirling Blades
• Dual Wield - Whirlwind
• Fighters Guild - Dawnbreaker
• Fighters Guild - Dawnbreaker of Smiting
• Fighters Guild - Flawless Dawnbreaker
• One Hand and Shield - Deep Slash
• One Hand and Shield - Heroic Slash
• One Hand and Shield - Invasion
• One Hand and Shield - Low Slash
• One Hand and Shield - Pierce Armor
• One Hand and Shield - Power Bash
• One Hand and Shield - Power Slam
• One Hand and Shield - Puncture
• One Hand and Shield - Ransack
• One Hand and Shield - Reverberating Bash
• One Hand and Shield - Shield Charge
• One Hand and Shield - Shielded Assault
• Psijic Order - Crushing Weapon
• Psijic Order - Imbue Weapon
• Shadow - Surprise Attack
• Siphoning - Power Extraction
• Siphoning - Soul Shred
• Storm Calling - Implosion
• Storm Calling - Implosion
• Two Handed - Berserker Rage
• Two Handed - Berserker Strike
• Two Handed - Brawler
• Two Handed - Carve
• Two Handed - Cleave
• Two Handed - Critical Charge
• Two Handed - Critical Rush
• Two Handed - Dizzying Swing
• Two Handed - Executioner
• Two Handed - Onslaught
• Two Handed - Reverse Slash
• Two Handed - Reverse Slice
• Two Handed - Stampede
• Two Handed - Uppercut
• Two Handed - Wrecking Blow
• Undaunted - Shadow Silk
• Undaunted - Tangling Webs
• Undaunted - Trapping Webs
• Werewolf - Brutal Pounce
• Werewolf - Claws of Anguish
• Werewolf - Claws of Life
• Werewolf - Feral Pounce
• Werewolf - Infectious Claws
• Werewolf - Pounce

Now that doesn't guarantee these skills are affected by the passive as sometimes the tooltip and actual skill aren't the same but gives us a good baseline at least.

I still don't know why steel tornado is a melee attack and procs things like ravager. I think you forgot vieled strike from assassination

According to the tooltip Veiled Strike doesn't change damage with this passive (of course the tooltip could be wrong).