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Sorcs are easy. Okay
Micah_Bayer
✭✭✭✭✭
Let's examine other classes.
Stamina NB - apply rally and vigor. Forget about rally until it goes off and reapply vigor every 6 seconds and dodge roll and cloak until incap is up and then let loose with incap, assassins will and surprise attack..dead.
Mag sorc apply 2-3 shields every 6 seconds, so basically your fingers are never leaving those buttons because if they do you get one tapped. Then proc your glyph..Curse execute, rune cage, frag, then force pulse force pulse. Even then not guaranteed kill. Add a meteor on that for a combo and it takes 6 or 7 things to kill someone. Apply the same stam NB combo to magblades and they have an easier time in 1v1 yet they shield stack as well and have hots active and strong mobility.
Mag templars. Minor mending and can purify dot builds and eliminates majority of negative affect on oneself, can stack power of light and DB then jab jab jab, it nearly kills all classes..The majority of stam builds have Dawnbreaker where they pop that and then execute and people die yet mag sorcs have to lay 6 or 7 things down to kill someone while having to have those shields on constantly..How is that easy?
Edited by Micah_Bayer on June 25, 2018 7:22PM Stamina NB - apply rally and vigor. Forget about rally until it goes off and reapply vigor every 6 seconds and dodge roll and cloak until incap is up and then let loose with incap, assassins will and surprise attack..dead.
Mag sorc apply 2-3 shields every 6 seconds, so basically your fingers are never leaving those buttons because if they do you get one tapped. Then proc your glyph..Curse execute, rune cage, frag, then force pulse force pulse. Even then not guaranteed kill. Add a meteor on that for a combo and it takes 6 or 7 things to kill someone. Apply the same stam NB combo to magblades and they have an easier time in 1v1 yet they shield stack as well and have hots active and strong mobility.
Mag templars. Minor mending and can purify dot builds and eliminates majority of negative affect on oneself, can stack power of light and DB then jab jab jab, it nearly kills all classes..The majority of stam builds have Dawnbreaker where they pop that and then execute and people die yet mag sorcs have to lay 6 or 7 things down to kill someone while having to have those shields on constantly..How is that easy?
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I suspect the moral of the story is that every player sees the effort that goes into getting their own kills. Also, every player sees the ease with which they get killed. Then, some people just struggle with making the connection that "hey, if I have skill that goes into making my own kills, then probably that other class can say the same about their kills, even though it feels like they killed me really easily." Its simpler to claim that their opponenet has it "easier" while the player has it "harder."
I mean, I'd certainly say that my stam warden and stam sorc have been the easiest for me to pick up PVP fighting on...but that's probably because I'm familiar with those two classes in a way I'm not with my magicka classes. In comparison, my magsorc has it easier the first time I run a round in VMA thanks to the survivability of shields, but I'm better at playing stam sorc so I do better with stam sorc after that first run-through to learn mechanics and priority targets.19 -
Kolache✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Mag templars. Minor mending and can purify dot builds and eliminates majority of negative affect on oneself, can stack power of light and DB then jab jab jab, it nearly kills all classes..
If just putting potl on people then spamming jabs actually did nearly "kill all classes" I think you'd have a stronger argument. Otherwise you nailed it!Something being unbalanced in 1v1 does not imply that it is balanced in group play.7 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Mag templars. Minor mending and can purify dot builds and eliminates majority of negative affect on oneself, can stack power of light and DB then jab jab jab, it nearly kills all classes..
If just putting potl on people then spamming jabs actually did nearly "kill all classes" I think you'd have a stronger argument. Otherwise you nailed it!
Thank you.0 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »I suspect the moral of the story is that every player sees the effort that goes into getting their own kills. Also, every player sees the ease with which they get killed. Then, some people just struggle with making the connection that "hey, if I have skill that goes into making my own kills, then probably that other class can say the same about their kills, even though it feels like they killed me really easily." Its simpler to claim that their opponenet has it "easier" while the player has it "harder."
I mean, I'd certainly say that my stam warden and stam sorc have been the easiest for me to pick up PVP fighting on...but that's probably because I'm familiar with those two classes in a way I'm not with my magicka classes. In comparison, my magsorc has it easier the first time I run a round in VMA thanks to the survivability of shields, but I'm better at playing stam sorc so I do better with stam sorc after that first run-through to learn mechanics and priority targets.
You got the moral of the story.0 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »I suspect the moral of the story is that every player sees the effort that goes into getting their own kills.
This is pretty much the correct response to 90 percent of threads about class balance.Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub16 -
grannas211✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wait for the incoming nightblade brigade to comment on "how easy it is to play" a Sorc.4 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭grannas211 wrote: »Wait for the incoming nightblade brigade to comment on "how easy it is to play" a Sorc.
It just boggles my mind when I read stuff like that. The combo isn't that easy to setup compared to DB spin to win or incap surprise attack.6 -
TelvanniWizard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »I suspect the moral of the story is that every player sees the effort that goes into getting their own kills. Also, every player sees the ease with which they get killed. Then, some people just struggle with making the connection that "hey, if I have skill that goes into making my own kills, then probably that other class can say the same about their kills, even though it feels like they killed me really easily." Its simpler to claim that their opponenet has it "easier" while the player has it "harder."
I mean, I'd certainly say that my stam warden and stam sorc have been the easiest for me to pick up PVP fighting on...but that's probably because I'm familiar with those two classes in a way I'm not with my magicka classes. In comparison, my magsorc has it easier the first time I run a round in VMA thanks to the survivability of shields, but I'm better at playing stam sorc so I do better with stam sorc after that first run-through to learn mechanics and priority targets.
You got the moral of the story.
I thought the moral of the story was: "Buff sorcs".4 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭TelvanniWizard wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »I suspect the moral of the story is that every player sees the effort that goes into getting their own kills. Also, every player sees the ease with which they get killed. Then, some people just struggle with making the connection that "hey, if I have skill that goes into making my own kills, then probably that other class can say the same about their kills, even though it feels like they killed me really easily." Its simpler to claim that their opponenet has it "easier" while the player has it "harder."
I mean, I'd certainly say that my stam warden and stam sorc have been the easiest for me to pick up PVP fighting on...but that's probably because I'm familiar with those two classes in a way I'm not with my magicka classes. In comparison, my magsorc has it easier the first time I run a round in VMA thanks to the survivability of shields, but I'm better at playing stam sorc so I do better with stam sorc after that first run-through to learn mechanics and priority targets.
You got the moral of the story.
I thought the moral of the story was: "Buff sorcs".
I never said buff sorcs. I am just stating it is not easy to play as others state.Edited by Micah_Bayer on June 25, 2018 7:20PM4 -
Nyghthowler✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would say it's 'easy to play' any of the classes; it's 'HARD to become Proficient' at playing them or against them, and not every ones preferred style works for every one else.Edited by Nyghthowler on June 25, 2018 7:20PMI'm not prejudiced; I hate everyone equally !6 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭Nyghthowler wrote: »I would say it's 'easy to play' any of the classes; it's 'HARD to become Proficient' at playing them, and not every ones preferred style works for every one else.
I agree with that0 -
TelvanniWizard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »TelvanniWizard wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »I suspect the moral of the story is that every player sees the effort that goes into getting their own kills. Also, every player sees the ease with which they get killed. Then, some people just struggle with making the connection that "hey, if I have skill that goes into making my own kills, then probably that other class can say the same about their kills, even though it feels like they killed me really easily." Its simpler to claim that their opponenet has it "easier" while the player has it "harder."
I mean, I'd certainly say that my stam warden and stam sorc have been the easiest for me to pick up PVP fighting on...but that's probably because I'm familiar with those two classes in a way I'm not with my magicka classes. In comparison, my magsorc has it easier the first time I run a round in VMA thanks to the survivability of shields, but I'm better at playing stam sorc so I do better with stam sorc after that first run-through to learn mechanics and priority targets.
You got the moral of the story.
I thought the moral of the story was: "Buff sorcs".
I never said buff sorcs. I am just stating it is not easy to play as others state.
Yeah, I got it
.
But every chance is good to say: Buff sorcs!
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Sylosi✭✭✭✭✭Starcraft was hard, competing in an actual competitive game with an actual competitive playerbase is hard, ESO is easy.Edited by Sylosi on June 25, 2018 7:26PM5
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Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭TelvanniWizard wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »TelvanniWizard wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »I suspect the moral of the story is that every player sees the effort that goes into getting their own kills. Also, every player sees the ease with which they get killed. Then, some people just struggle with making the connection that "hey, if I have skill that goes into making my own kills, then probably that other class can say the same about their kills, even though it feels like they killed me really easily." Its simpler to claim that their opponenet has it "easier" while the player has it "harder."
I mean, I'd certainly say that my stam warden and stam sorc have been the easiest for me to pick up PVP fighting on...but that's probably because I'm familiar with those two classes in a way I'm not with my magicka classes. In comparison, my magsorc has it easier the first time I run a round in VMA thanks to the survivability of shields, but I'm better at playing stam sorc so I do better with stam sorc after that first run-through to learn mechanics and priority targets.
You got the moral of the story.
I thought the moral of the story was: "Buff sorcs".
I never said buff sorcs. I am just stating it is not easy to play as others state.
Yeah, I got it .
But every chance is good to say: Buff sorcs!
Thumbs up from me1 -
Davor✭✭✭✭✭
✭So they are easy. So does that mean I have to stop playing one because I am playing for fluff reasons?Not my quote but I love this saying
"I would pay It for support. But since they choosed we are just numbers and not customers, i dont mind if game and zos goes to oblivion"0 -
grannas211✭✭✭✭✭
✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »grannas211 wrote: »Wait for the incoming nightblade brigade to comment on "how easy it is to play" a Sorc.
It just boggles my mind when I read stuff like that. The combo isn't that easy to setup compared to DB spin to win or incap surprise attack.
The irony everyone saying that doesnt actually play a sorc or they'r experience is in a 24 man group or just hitting execute in BGs and thinking wow im so OP.2 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭LeagueTroll wrote: »Magplar jab is not as easy to hit as ppl claim. Nb is good I agree.
Though to be honest half of the burst dmg a sorc has comes from curse. How do magplars die to sorcerers when they can purge the curse the moment they see it? I mean it costs the less than having two shields on so cost doesnt seem to be the problem.Edited by Micah_Bayer on June 25, 2018 7:32PM0 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭grannas211 wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »grannas211 wrote: »Wait for the incoming nightblade brigade to comment on "how easy it is to play" a Sorc.
It just boggles my mind when I read stuff like that. The combo isn't that easy to setup compared to DB spin to win or incap surprise attack.
The irony everyone saying that doesnt actually play a sorc or they'r experience is in a 24 man group or just hitting execute in BGs and thinking wow im so OP.
Lol if they were in execute range they were going to die regardless. Yeah and those types of sorcs ste the ones who get installed gibbed by competent players0 -
Davor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Yeah and those types of sorcs ste the ones who get installed gibbed by competent players
Wouldn't that mean then sorcs are NOT easy to play then?Not my quote but I love this saying
"I would pay It for support. But since they choosed we are just numbers and not customers, i dont mind if game and zos goes to oblivion"4 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Yeah and those types of sorcs ste the ones who get installed gibbed by competent players
Wouldn't that mean then sorcs are NOT easy to play then?
The initial wording in the post was sarcastic. Sorcs are not easy to play imo and I am trying to get people to understand that compared to the db spin to win builds or the incap surprise attack kill any build.Edited by Micah_Bayer on June 25, 2018 7:38PM0 -
Davor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Yeah and those types of sorcs ste the ones who get installed gibbed by competent players
Wouldn't that mean then sorcs are NOT easy to play then?
The initial wording in the post was sarcastic. Sorcs are not easy to play imo and I am trying to get people to understand that compared to the db spin to win builds or the incap surprise attack kill any build.
I didn't see the sarcasm. I really thought you ment sorcs were easy to play. Fair enough now that I know where you are coming from.
Not my quote but I love this saying
"I would pay It for support. But since they choosed we are just numbers and not customers, i dont mind if game and zos goes to oblivion"0 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Yeah and those types of sorcs ste the ones who get installed gibbed by competent players
Wouldn't that mean then sorcs are NOT easy to play then?
The initial wording in the post was sarcastic. Sorcs are not easy to play imo and I am trying to get people to understand that compared to the db spin to win builds or the incap surprise attack kill any build.
I didn't see the sarcasm. I really thought you ment sorcs were easy to play. Fair enough now that I know where you are coming from. give the post a thumbs up. Thank you. 1 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭My take on Sorcs from a PVP Perspective: yes I sorc a fair amount, but I have played every spec in this game. Currently I mostly PVE on a mageblade and split PVP playtime between mSorc, mDK and Stamden, but sorc is definitely the most.
Sorc is porbably the second most popular character archetype in this game, only behind your DW rouge Legolas type (AKA stamblades). Practically speaking, that means you are going to see a lot of new players that have no idea about how combat works in this game rolling sorcs out of the gate. 4+ years ago, my first toon was a stamblade because i wanted to be Legolas.
Furthermore, they have very straight forward offensive and defensive rotations. If you are getting pressured, you stack 2-3 shields. If not, you try to line 2-3 skills for burst. This makes it an easier class than most to break into PVP. They are also ranged and have a powerful execute, which can make a noobie zergling feel safe and comfortable. The flipside is that shields are a garbage mitigation tool when out numbered, and truly lining up a burst combo to take down very tanky opponents is far more difficult than people would have you believe. In other words, sorcs make great little zerglings and are very good at taking out newer opponents because your burst combo doesnt need to be nearly as tight. The floor is low, but the ceiling for a good player is also very high because shield stacking is not going to save you when you are outnumbered, and sloppy burst combos wont kill anyone that actually knows how to play.
Lastly, the rage is magnified for one simple reason, Mages wrath. The hate for this skill is disproportionaly magnified because of its ability to steal kills in BGs and its frequency in death recaps. The reality, however, is that if mages wrath kills you, you were probably dead anyway.
From a PVE perspective, again, they are easy to learn, but the ceiling is not terribly high. The best players will gravitate towards mageblade, because they are more skill based with more damage potential.7 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »My take on Sorcs from a PVP Perspective: yes I sorc a fair amount, but I have played every spec in this game. Currently I mostly PVE on a mageblade and split PVP playtime between mSorc, mDK and Stamden, but sorc is definitely the most.
Sorc is porbably the second most popular character archetype in this game, only behind your DW rouge Legolas type (AKA stamblades). Practically speaking, that means you are going to see a lot of new players that have no idea about how combat works in this game rolling sorcs out of the gate. 4+ years ago, my first toon was a stamblade because i wanted to be Legolas.
Furthermore, they have very straight forward offensive and defensive rotations. If you are getting pressured, you stack 2-3 shields. If not, you try to line 2-3 skills for burst. This makes it an easier class than most to break into PVP. They are also ranged and have a powerful execute, which can make a noobie zergling feel safe and comfortable. The flipside is that shields are a garbage mitigation tool when out numbered, and truly lining up a burst combo to take down very tanky opponents is far more difficult than people would have you believe. In other words, sorcs make great little zerglings and are very good at taking out newer opponents because your burst combo doesnt need to be nearly as tight. The floor is low, but the ceiling for a good player is also very high because shield stacking is not going to save you when you are outnumbered, and sloppy burst combos wont kill anyone that actually knows how to play.
Lastly, the rage is magnified for one simple reason, Mages wrath. The hate for this skill is disproportionaly magnified because of its ability to steal kills in BGs and its frequency in death recaps. The reality, however, is that if mages wrath kills you, you were probably dead anyway.
From a PVE perspective, again, they are easy to learn, but the ceiling is not terribly high. The best players will gravitate towards mageblade, because they are more skill based with more damage potential.
I enjoyed the PVP portion of your post. And a bit of the pve section. Well written.0 -
f047ys3v3n✭✭✭✭✭
✭I believe the sorc easy comment you keep seeing is purely a PvE vs. Magblade comment since ranged mag dps is the only viable thing in many of the mechanics ZOS put in the latest trials. This is basically a statement that relative to mWarden and mBlade sorc is easy. This is also untrue in a few trials as the easy sorc builds are pet and the pets die complicating things for both the sorc and bear dependent Warden. So.... The mechanics heavily favor 1/10 possible class/resource combinations if you want to be able to do all the trials. Not impressive.
As for the PVP. sWarden, from what I see, is the easiest win button. No mag toon is so easy in PVP as your stuns are few, dropping snares is hard, your heals are generally defiled and so weak, your burst is just not great, and you get about half as many ulti drops as a stam toon because they cost twice as much.I am mostly pleased with the current state of ESO. Please do continue to ban cheaters though and you guys have to find out who is duping gold and how because the economy is currently non-functional.0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »My take on Sorcs from a PVP Perspective: yes I sorc a fair amount, but I have played every spec in this game. Currently I mostly PVE on a mageblade and split PVP playtime between mSorc, mDK and Stamden, but sorc is definitely the most.
Sorc is porbably the second most popular character archetype in this game, only behind your DW rouge Legolas type (AKA stamblades). Practically speaking, that means you are going to see a lot of new players that have no idea about how combat works in this game rolling sorcs out of the gate. 4+ years ago, my first toon was a stamblade because i wanted to be Legolas.
Furthermore, they have very straight forward offensive and defensive rotations. If you are getting pressured, you stack 2-3 shields. If not, you try to line 2-3 skills for burst. This makes it an easier class than most to break into PVP. They are also ranged and have a powerful execute, which can make a noobie zergling feel safe and comfortable. The flipside is that shields are a garbage mitigation tool when out numbered, and truly lining up a burst combo to take down very tanky opponents is far more difficult than people would have you believe. In other words, sorcs make great little zerglings and are very good at taking out newer opponents because your burst combo doesnt need to be nearly as tight. The floor is low, but the ceiling for a good player is also very high because shield stacking is not going to save you when you are outnumbered, and sloppy burst combos wont kill anyone that actually knows how to play.
Lastly, the rage is magnified for one simple reason, Mages wrath. The hate for this skill is disproportionaly magnified because of its ability to steal kills in BGs and its frequency in death recaps. The reality, however, is that if mages wrath kills you, you were probably dead anyway.
From a PVE perspective, again, they are easy to learn, but the ceiling is not terribly high. The best players will gravitate towards mageblade, because they are more skill based with more damage potential.
I enjoyed the PVP portion of your post. And a bit of the pve section. Well written.
Ha, well the PVE section has already been beaten to death. Rewind the clock 2-2.5 years, and magic sorcs were pretty rare in end game trial groups. They were one of the toughest classes to play effectively and outside of overload spam in 4 man, they had a very unforgiving rotation. Sustain was rough and your weave needed to be perfect. Virtually every other class at the time could out parse them, save for a few sorc phenoms like Yolo Wizard and Streak back in the day.
Then, they buffed pets and all hell broke lose. Suddenly a very simply rotation was leading ST races even though basically every skill was AOE, making total DPS on add heavy fights ungodly. This was the first and really only time that sorcs were truly overpowered in PVE, and they then got beat with a nerf hammer.
What we are left with is a class that basically has two versions. The first is the much easier heavy attack pet sorc rotation. There is no easier way in this game to pull passable end game DPS, but the cap on this has been lowered and Pets create their own headaches. This setup is certainly not OP in the current meta, but it is highly recommended for new players. The second is more dynamic non-pet light attack rotation. This does take skill to play, but the problem is that it just wont beat a NB (whose dynamic rotation is certainly harder to perform). What you are left with is happy beginners and frustrated vets. I did my whole VMOL HM progression on a magic sorc (before pets were buffed). I road the pet wave, but like most good sorcs in the current meta, I went mageblade about 7-8 months ago.Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on June 25, 2018 8:49PM2 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Sorcs aren't easy as per say. However they are a simpler class to learn. Not the simplest, that goes to stamden by far, and then stamNB, but they are simpler. I'd say a templar is probably the hardest.
Lets start with offense:- Entirely high damage delayed burst based. Samish rotation with very little fluctuation.Other classes like a templar has to pressure too and then deliver burst.
- Its high ranged, which is useful for not accidentally canceling attacks and being able to bouncy hop for various buffs, and it is mindbogglingly easy to land with rune now.
- In a zerg/group the offense is particularly strong, rune with its buggy CC, and wrath for easy kills.
- The way the burst is layered, with its buffer time means that shielding can be intergrated well. And speaking of shields...
Defense:- Shielding whilst offensive means that you can be relatively safe whilst losing little from that final burst hit, defending on a pressure class like a DK or a templar has its losses, especially on a templar, where you have to actively switch between offense/defense due to jabs, and being defensive means lower POTL and lack of ability to jab.
- Shielding scales of your main stat, which is self explanatory. Less sacrifice.
- Shielding also has no active buffs/debuffs, meaning they are simpler to manage. Whilst you can be defiled and lose healing, and have to account for that in buffs like mending, shield sizes are static.
- Also on shields, no soft (by that I mean easily accessible, but not over powered) counters. Block has all dots, some AoEs and other unblockables. So when you shield up you are safe for its duration from anything bar oblivion, which is niche as hell (no way defending OP sets like SB/sloads etc)
Edited by ak_pvp on June 25, 2018 11:50PMMagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.1 -
ReverseVenom✭✭✭I've played Stamblade, Magdk, stamwarden, magwarden, stamsorc, magblade, and mag sorc in PvP all with varying degrees of success. I'm proficient with my MagDK, Stamblade, Magsorc, and now more recently my Magwarden.
I understand how powerful stamblades can be and I've written several comments throughout my time on the forums helping others either play them or play against them.
Yes you get the proctato and the sniper from stealth but compared to my extensive play on my stamblade and magdk mag sorc was by far the easiest to pick up and do well with. After I got my lich/spinners gear my first run in cyrodiil it took me about 10 minutes to figure out how to time my shields and how useful streak was both offensively and defensively, lining up the burst combo is beyond easy it's pathetic curse/sheild/sheild/rune cage/frag/force pulse/mages wrath. Idk what type of sorc you play that doesn't get a guaranteed kill off of that but not many classes can survive that and if they do you have put so much pressure and can set it up instantly again. The best part, you're at a range of 20 meters with streak and posibbly an ultimate to back you up.
TLDR: Stamblades aren't hard to play because you can stack procs or snipes easily, stamblades that don't fall into that typically have a harder time staying alive. Sorcs are gg easy to play for beginners and have a high skill ceiling for people who main them but are undeniably still easy.
Nerf mudcrabs10