Should Werewolf be a toggled transformation with greater detriments?

Knowledge · June 2018

Well, we all know what's coming in Wolfhunter. The packs finally get their very own DLC. Werewolf lovers should be pleased.

The community is likely expecting some changes to werewolves as they more than likely feel neglected in comparison to Vampires.

So, I propose that werewolf be an at-will transformation with greater detriments or "riding detriments".

For example, the longer you remain in werewolf form the greater your detriments become and this would persuade you to possibly drop werewolf for some time.

The other idea would just be much, much higher poison vulnerability and greater weakness to fighter's guild abilities.

In the riding detriment model the Werewolves could still feed to reduce the severity but would not be forced to drop the transformation if they didn't want to.

What do you guys think?

Mayrael · June 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

Well, we all know what's coming in Wolfhunter. The packs finally get their very own DLC. Werewolf lovers should be pleased.

The community is likely expecting some changes to werewolves as they more than likely feel neglected in comparison to Vampires.

So, I propose that werewolf be an at-will transformation with greater detriments or "riding detriments".

For example, the longer you remain in werewolf form the greater your detriments become and this would persuade you to possibly drop werewolf for some time.

The other idea would just be much, much higher poison vulnerability and greater weakness to fighter's guild abilities.

In the riding detriment model the Werewolves could still feed to reduce the severity but would not be forced to drop the transformation if they didn't want to.

What do you guys think?

Werewolves have to high damage output to stay constantly in WW form without drawbacks (at least from PvP perspective), I don't mind being it toggle but I fear it could cause a lot of imbalance, maybe increasing cost of skills over time would do the trick.

DamenAJ · June 2018

I've always wanted werewolf to be toggle.... I'd prefer it just to have balance detriments, rather than increasing detriments. Being toggled into werewolf form should be on par with other builds.

Although, I could totally imagine a funny way to "punish" people for staying werewolf too long... After, let's say.... 5 minutes in werewolf form,You go into a blood craze where your damage increases, but also have a lower chance to hit... The longer you're in werewolf form, the more damage, less hit chance. After 10 minutes, you will also switch targets, including attacking critters and NPCs randomly.

Sharee · June 2018

I don't want the WW to be watered down just so i can switch at will/stay transformed longer. While in combat(and being hit) the transformation is practically endless anyway, so it would be a bad deal. I prefer it the way it is now.

Tommy_The_Gun · June 2018

Werewolf currently has so much drawbacks that it is either for purely RP, Fun, or in some VERY rare cases - PvP.

The biggest problem is that werewolf does not fit in none of the "holy trinity" (DPS, Tank, Healer).

- It has only 1 bar, so you cant double bar skill combos & buffs.
- There are many things that do not carry over to WW form - this includes weapon skill passives so it pretty much kills diversity.
- You lose A LOT of character functionality while in WW form (Can't resurrect players, can't sneak, can't mount etc.)
- You have no taunt meaning that WW can't full fill tank role.
- You have a heal that heals only yourself - meaning that WW can't full fill healer role.
- Skills & light / heavy attacks are clunky (and as said above you only have 1 skill bar) - you lose A LOT of DPS when compared to non - Werewolf.
- You take 25% more poison dmg and additionally in PvP there are skills that do extra dmg to WW & Vamps (meaning that without a special, narrow build and some player experience - in PvP transforming to WW = dead).
- Resource management is trash in WW form + skills are way to expensive.
- Feeding mechanics is clunky and you have to "pixel hunt" for corpses. Animation needs to complete in order for time to be added for your WW transformation time. If you move - it does not count. Often there are situations (especially in public dungeons) when corpses will disappear during feeding animation - and it also does not count.

Personally I have no issue with WW up-time but there are so much more important fixes for WW that needs to be addressed that WW "timer" seems like a minor issue... I just hope that ZOS will not try to fix it by adding a "gear set" with new WW Dungeon DLC...

Doctordarkspawn · June 2018

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Werewolf currently has so much drawbacks that it is either for purely RP, Fun, or in some VERY rare cases - PvP.

The biggest problem is that werewolf does not fit in none of the "holy trinity" (DPS, Tank, Healer).

- It has only 1 bar, so you cant double bar skill combos & buffs.
- There are many things that do not carry over to WW form - this includes weapon skill passives so it pretty much kills diversity.
- You lose A LOT of character functionality while in WW form (Can't resurrect players, can't sneak, can't mount etc.)
- You have no taunt meaning that WW can't full fill tank role.
- You have a heal that heals only yourself - meaning that WW can't full fill healer role.
- Skills & light / heavy attacks are clunky (and as said above you only have 1 skill bar) - you lose A LOT of DPS when compared to non - Werewolf.
- You take 25% more poison dmg and additionally in PvP there are skills that do extra dmg to WW & Vamps (meaning that without a special, narrow build and some player experience - in PvP transforming to WW = dead).
- Resource management is trash in WW form + skills are way to expensive.
- Feeding mechanics is clunky and you have to "pixel hunt" for corpses. Animation needs to complete in order for time to be added for your WW transformation time. If you move - it does not count. Often there are situations (especially in public dungeons) when corpses will disappear during feeding animation - and it also does not count.

Personally I have no issue with WW up-time but there are so much more important fixes for WW that needs to be addressed that WW "timer" seems like a minor issue... I just hope that ZOS will not try to fix it by adding a "gear set" with new WW Dungeon DLC...

I honestly suggest this, short of a complete overhaul of the werewolf line itself -needs- to be done. Both of them do as a matter of fact, and I wouldn't mind paying for an expansion that didn't.

And yes, the werewolves simply dont fit into the holy trinity, part of this is because vampire and werewolf were, in short, a PVP spec back when the game was very revolving around PVP.

The system needs re-worked. It's not been -touched- barely since the days when PVP ruled this game and it needs to be.

Sparr0w · June 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

Well, we all know what's coming in Wolfhunter. The packs finally get their very own DLC. Werewolf lovers should be pleased.

The community is likely expecting some changes to werewolves as they more than likely feel neglected in comparison to Vampires.

So, I propose that werewolf be an at-will transformation with greater detriments or "riding detriments".

For example, the longer you remain in werewolf form the greater your detriments become and this would persuade you to possibly drop werewolf for some time.

The other idea would just be much, much higher poison vulnerability and greater weakness to fighter's guild abilities.

In the riding detriment model the Werewolves could still feed to reduce the severity but would not be forced to drop the transformation if they didn't want to.

What do you guys think?

So like Vampire is? Stage 1-4 & feeding drops stages? yeh

You'd have to give a benefit and a drawback for each stage, so more dmg but more vulnerability.

Also the ability to use class skills & maybe double bar so they're more viable.

starkerealm · June 2018

Well, there we go, a @Knowledge thread that has some merit.

Sharee wrote: »

I don't want the WW to be watered down just so i can switch at will/stay transformed longer. While in combat(and being hit) the transformation is practically endless anyway, so it would be a bad deal. I prefer it the way it is now.

There are a few places where the transformation duration is crippling. Primarily in vet trials and vet DLC dungeons, where you can't maintain constant incoming damage (without dying) to maintain the transform. The other major situation is Cyrodiil, where you can't wolf out, and stay that way.

Now, back when Call of the Pack stacked to a 100% discount, you could actually run vet trials with full werewolf teams. Similarly you could see wolves roaming across Cyrodiil.

So, the idea of Werewolf being a toggle effect isn't automatically terrible. The idea of nerfing wolves is far less appealing, particularly given there is already plenty of counterplay in PvP when dealing with them, and because they have a very limited skill set in PvE, so, while they do one thing very well, they're not overpowered.

Yeah, it would be nice to see a toggle transform, and not just for RP purposes.

Everstorm · June 2018

I support a toggle as long as they will be attacked on sight by npcs and guards.

VaranisArano · June 2018

Interesting, sounds like something to bring up with the Class Reps the next time they post a thread like this one, or just post it there anyway: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416461/class-rep-werewolf-feedback-thread

Peekachu99 · June 2018

Why would WW need to be further handicapped? Poison damage and a loss of any and all class and weapon skills save for a couple passives is more than enough. In PVP you have an enormous target on you as soon as you transform. In PVE your damage is lacklustre compared to a pure dps toon of any class (Wardens includes).

It needs buffs and tweaks, not nerfs.

starkerealm · June 2018

Everstorm wrote: »

I support a toggle as long as they will be attacked on sight by npcs and guards.

Honestly, I find the part where you can still talk to NPCs while wolfed out, hilarious. Even more amusing is that the Intimidate passive shuts down while transformed. Meaning you're actually less frightening when you're a nine foot tall snarling deathbeast, then when you're in your normal human form.

Zorgon_The_Revenged · June 2018

Compared to what it used to be, WW uptime is a lot better and you can enjoy "being a werewolf" instead of spending most of your time building up ultimate. I'd like to see cc immunity and a large damage reduction applied while feeding, possibly even a short damage boost after feeding.

But a toggled ultimate, no.

Knowledge · June 2018

Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »

Compared to what it used to be, WW uptime is a lot better and you can enjoy "being a werewolf" instead of spending most of your time building up ultimate. I'd like to see cc immunity and a large damage reduction applied while feeding, possibly even a short damage boost after feeding.

But a toggled ultimate, no.

We'll just let the sorcs keep their toggled overload. It's not broken at all.

DuskMarine · June 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

Well, we all know what's coming in Wolfhunter. The packs finally get their very own DLC. Werewolf lovers should be pleased.

The community is likely expecting some changes to werewolves as they more than likely feel neglected in comparison to Vampires.

So, I propose that werewolf be an at-will transformation with greater detriments or "riding detriments".

For example, the longer you remain in werewolf form the greater your detriments become and this would persuade you to possibly drop werewolf for some time.

The other idea would just be much, much higher poison vulnerability and greater weakness to fighter's guild abilities.

In the riding detriment model the Werewolves could still feed to reduce the severity but would not be forced to drop the transformation if they didn't want to.

What do you guys think?

honestly no. what i think it should be is more of a curse transformation that gives a massive increase in power with new abilities for upwards of 15-20 secs. kindve make the transformation actually worthwhile.

Xarico · June 2018

With greater detriments (i.e. nerfs)? No. With tweaks? Yes.

Aznox · June 2018

Sharee wrote: »

I don't want the WW to be watered down just so i can switch at will/stay transformed longer. While in combat(and being hit) the transformation is practically endless anyway, so it would be a bad deal. I prefer it the way it is now.

This.

Werewolf would need to be nerfed before giving us at-will transformation in PvP.

Otherwise you would see this every 30 seconds :

https://clips.twitch.tv/DeadBillowingTrianglePastaThat

I don't want a Werewolf nerf.

Werewolf needs QoL and bugfixes (heavy attack weaving still bugged since Summerset ...)

As for PvE, giving it a taunt (at least Tormentor set plz) would be a quick way to give us permawolf and would open the very interesting path of werewolf tanking, months of fun to see how far we could go with this.

LordSemaj · June 2018

I would actually lock the Vampire and Werewolf to their bars.

Make transforming into a Werewolf combine your stamina and magicka bars, benefiting hybrid builds. All stamina and magicka gear improvements affect a single bar and so combine in effort. Now the werewolf is just Stamina on overdrive with no access to magicka abilities. Easier to gear, easier to CP, and ultimately the same flavor.

Meanwhile the Vampire should have be the ultimate magicka focus. Can't lock out the stamina bar because of dodging and blocking. But using a vampire ability to drain blood or something will lock out stamina abilities and enable the vampire passives for a short time. This is where ESO went wrong... don't give Vamps passives all the time, only give them the passives when they're actually using vampire abilities regularly. Sort of like temporary buffs. With a heavy focus on magicka, they're about buffing and sustaining and nuking hard with ultimates.

Vercingetorix · June 2018

Werewolf Transformation should be a toggle Ultimate just like Overload. Player pops it on, transforms, and the WW bar abilities cost some ultimate to use (instead of the current mag/stam costs). Devour instead grants a short duration of Major Heroism upon consuming a corpse. A player can toggle off WW at any time, with a transformation back to human form. Any unspent ultimate is retained for future use, just like Overload. Should a player run out of ultimate during WW form, the WW transformation will automatically toggle off.

See? The solution is not complicated whatsoever and the code for this solution already exists in the game files so the dev team can use existing assets from the Overload code to build this. Since the code will be similar in structure to Overload, the bugs should be minimal.

*Players would not be able to place any other abilities on the WW bar, unlike Sorcs with their Overload bar. HOWEVER, they can rearrange/bind the 5 WW abilities on the bar any way they choose.

Aznox · June 2018

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Werewolf Transformation should be a toggle Ultimate just like Overload. Player pops it on, transforms, and the WW bar abilities cost some ultimate to use (instead of the current mag/stam costs). Devour instead grants a short duration of Major Heroism upon consuming a corpse. A player can toggle off WW at any time, with a transformation back to human form. Any unspent ultimate is retained for future use, just like Overload. Should a player run out of ultimate during WW form, the WW transformation will automatically toggle off.

See? The solution is not complicated whatsoever and the code for this solution already exists in the game files so the dev team can use existing assets from the Overload code to build this. Since the code will be similar in structure to Overload, the bugs should be minimal.

*Players would not be able to place any other abilities on the WW bar, unlike Sorcs with their Overload bar. HOWEVER, they can rearrange/bind the 5 WW abilities on the bar any way they choose.

From a balance point of view, yes this is much more complicated than that. Even if you remove the fear and invulnerability frames from the transformations, having at-will werewolf after full-buff on yourself and full-debuff on your opponents would be completely overpowered, as shown in my video two posts above.

Also the overload code is not an example of bug-free / ready-to-use code ... you can currently slot another ultimate on your overload bar ...

Vercingetorix · June 2018

Aznox wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Werewolf Transformation should be a toggle Ultimate just like Overload. Player pops it on, transforms, and the WW bar abilities cost some ultimate to use (instead of the current mag/stam costs). Devour instead grants a short duration of Major Heroism upon consuming a corpse. A player can toggle off WW at any time, with a transformation back to human form. Any unspent ultimate is retained for future use, just like Overload. Should a player run out of ultimate during WW form, the WW transformation will automatically toggle off.

See? The solution is not complicated whatsoever and the code for this solution already exists in the game files so the dev team can use existing assets from the Overload code to build this. Since the code will be similar in structure to Overload, the bugs should be minimal.

*Players would not be able to place any other abilities on the WW bar, unlike Sorcs with their Overload bar. HOWEVER, they can rearrange/bind the 5 WW abilities on the bar any way they choose.

From a balance point of view, yes this is much more complicated than that. Even if you remove the fear and invulnerability frames from the transformations, having at-will werewolf after full-buff on yourself and full-debuff on your opponents would be completely overpowered, as shown in my video two posts above.

Also the overload code is not an example of bug-free / ready-to-use code ... you can currently slot another ultimate on your overload bar ...

Seriously? All ZoS has to do is remove any ongoing WW specific buffs from the player upon reverting back to human form. It's not overpowered - players will have to adapt to the change, just like anything else. I never said the Overload bar was bug-free, but did say it would allow for minimal bugs. What bugs do crop up would be more easily identified as a result. By the way, what is your counter-solution since mine is "clearly overpowered"?

AuldWolf · June 2018

I think one of the main problems for werewolf is that it comes from the delusional pre-One Tamriel period where ZOS believed that there was more than a couple of hundred players -- at most -- who'd be playing in big groups. This is compared to the thousands upon thousands who don't. What this means is that werewolf uptime is tied to being in a group, which either makes it a PvP skill (as noted), or something that you just have for roleplaying or fun. It has absolutely no real utility outside of PvP.

In order to make it a PvE skill line, it has to be retooled to fit the new way of thinking. That ESO is a solo/small group game. You can tell that this changed happened inside of ZOS based upon the marketing. That's why I don't feel too worried about the hardcore contingent pushing for harder overland content (those experiments were tried with Craglorn and Cadwell's and we all know how that went). ZOS has settled into ESO being a game that the vast, vast majority of people play solo or as a small (3 max) group. Again, check the marketing.

Werewolf is old times, though, like I said. Anything from before this switch just doesn't fit into the game as it is now. Werewolf is from the time before this switch. It needs a huge retool to fit small group play in PvE. That's how it can become relevant to the PvE side of the game. Werewolf needs to benefit solo/small group play. That's where the quality of life needs to be focused. Whether that's making werewolf a toggle, allowing for longer uptimes when playing solo/small groups, or what have you. It's where the focus should be, it's -- frankly -- where I'd expect it to be.

That's what I'm hoping for from Wolfhunter.

Edit: Well, that and the new werewolf aesthetic as the player werewolf form, too. Gimme my Goldenwolf bangs, ZOS! Don't think I didn't see them in your preview images. I want those for my werewolf!

Aznox · June 2018

PvP Werewolf needs bugfixes, access to synergies.

PvE Werewolf needs some help with time management, possibly through a taunt.

After that they can look at adding some viability to the unused morphs.

Beardimus · June 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »

Compared to what it used to be, WW uptime is a lot better and you can enjoy "being a werewolf" instead of spending most of your time building up ultimate. I'd like to see cc immunity and a large damage reduction applied while feeding, possibly even a short damage boost after feeding.

But a toggled ultimate, no.

We'll just let the sorcs keep their toggled overload. It's not broken at all.

What's broken about it? How unreliable it is?

Lykanus · June 2018

Aznox wrote: »

PvP Werewolf needs bugfixes, access to synergies.

PvE Werewolf needs some help with time management, possibly through a taunt.

After that they can look at adding some viability to the unused morphs.

PvE Wolf need to be able to rez too without switching form aswell access to synergies and get fix of the clunky devour function that plagues you 60% of time to finally get it able to activate.

Rowjoh · June 2018

Totally agree with @Tommy_The_Gun.

WW is underwhelming, uncompetitive and needs to overhauled and re-designed.

Jailbirdy · June 2018

Sharee wrote: »

I don't want the WW to be watered down just so i can switch at will/stay transformed longer. While in combat(and being hit) the transformation is practically endless anyway, so it would be a bad deal. I prefer it the way it is now.

agreed

but that is all speculation above, the next DLC may be werewolf themed but no changes to character werewolf skill have been mentioned...

DuskMarine · June 2018

Jailbirdy wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

I don't want the WW to be watered down just so i can switch at will/stay transformed longer. While in combat(and being hit) the transformation is practically endless anyway, so it would be a bad deal. I prefer it the way it is now.

agreed

but that is all speculation above, the next DLC may be werewolf themed but no changes to character werewolf skill have been mentioned...

yea i think their gonna let werewolf continue on its way out the door. its already garbage and its only getting worse

Chrlynsch · June 2018

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Werewolf Transformation should be a toggle Ultimate just like Overload. Player pops it on, transforms, and the WW bar abilities cost some ultimate to use (instead of the current mag/stam costs). Devour instead grants a short duration of Major Heroism upon consuming a corpse. A player can toggle off WW at any time, with a transformation back to human form. Any unspent ultimate is retained for future use, just like Overload. Should a player run out of ultimate during WW form, the WW transformation will automatically toggle off.

See? The solution is not complicated whatsoever and the code for this solution already exists in the game files so the dev team can use existing assets from the Overload code to build this. Since the code will be similar in structure to Overload, the bugs should be minimal.

*Players would not be able to place any other abilities on the WW bar, unlike Sorcs with their Overload bar. HOWEVER, they can rearrange/bind the 5 WW abilities on the bar any way they choose.

From a balance point of view, yes this is much more complicated than that. Even if you remove the fear and invulnerability frames from the transformations, having at-will werewolf after full-buff on yourself and full-debuff on your opponents would be completely overpowered, as shown in my video two posts above.

Also the overload code is not an example of bug-free / ready-to-use code ... you can currently slot another ultimate on your overload bar ...

Seriously? All ZoS has to do is remove any ongoing WW specific buffs from the player upon reverting back to human form. It's not overpowered - players will have to adapt to the change, just like anything else. I never said the Overload bar was bug-free, but did say it would allow for minimal bugs. What bugs do crop up would be more easily identified as a result. By the way, what is your counter-solution since mine is "clearly overpowered"?

The can of worms is more full than you think it is.

1. What do all the abilities scale off of if they now cost ult?
2. How does the transformation interact with Battle Roar?
3. Do light and heavy attacks cost ulti like overload?
4. How much is the new activation cost of the ult?
5. How much does each ability cost? Does sorc and templar passives lower this cost?
6. How does ulti gen work inform? Do sets/passives still work?
7. Is the magic pool now irrelevant?
8. How do sets like salvation, alteration, and dragon interact with the werewolf ability costs?

Aznox overpowered statement was in reference to werewolves having full buffs all the time after transforming into form.
Think of a sorc able to proc a masters bleed, bleed from slashes, pop into form, werewolf bleed proc, while having hurricane going, rally tick, Crit surge. Kills and just drops out and rebuffs/ debuffs their target 15 seconds later.

I personally would rather see;

-Fixing Weapon damage scaling from light and heavy attacks that was nerfed with summerset.
-Bloodrage: when you take damage or use a werewolf abiliy you gain 3 seconds, 3 second cooldown.
-Devour changed to an added time per second mechanic with resource restore.
-Allow ulti gen while in werewolf form.

Vercingetorix · June 2018

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Werewolf Transformation should be a toggle Ultimate just like Overload. Player pops it on, transforms, and the WW bar abilities cost some ultimate to use (instead of the current mag/stam costs). Devour instead grants a short duration of Major Heroism upon consuming a corpse. A player can toggle off WW at any time, with a transformation back to human form. Any unspent ultimate is retained for future use, just like Overload. Should a player run out of ultimate during WW form, the WW transformation will automatically toggle off.

See? The solution is not complicated whatsoever and the code for this solution already exists in the game files so the dev team can use existing assets from the Overload code to build this. Since the code will be similar in structure to Overload, the bugs should be minimal.

*Players would not be able to place any other abilities on the WW bar, unlike Sorcs with their Overload bar. HOWEVER, they can rearrange/bind the 5 WW abilities on the bar any way they choose.

From a balance point of view, yes this is much more complicated than that. Even if you remove the fear and invulnerability frames from the transformations, having at-will werewolf after full-buff on yourself and full-debuff on your opponents would be completely overpowered, as shown in my video two posts above.

Also the overload code is not an example of bug-free / ready-to-use code ... you can currently slot another ultimate on your overload bar ...

Seriously? All ZoS has to do is remove any ongoing WW specific buffs from the player upon reverting back to human form. It's not overpowered - players will have to adapt to the change, just like anything else. I never said the Overload bar was bug-free, but did say it would allow for minimal bugs. What bugs do crop up would be more easily identified as a result. By the way, what is your counter-solution since mine is "clearly overpowered"?

The can of worms is more full than you think it is.

1. What do all the abilities scale off of if they now cost ult?
2. How does the transformation interact with Battle Roar?
3. Do light and heavy attacks cost ulti like overload?
4. How much is the new activation cost of the ult?
5. How much does each ability cost? Does sorc and templar passives lower this cost?
6. How does ulti gen work inform? Do sets/passives still work?
7. Is the magic pool now irrelevant?
8. How do sets like salvation, alteration, and dragon interact with the werewolf ability costs?

Aznox overpowered statement was in reference to werewolves having full buffs all the time after transforming into form.
Think of a sorc able to proc a masters bleed, bleed from slashes, pop into form, werewolf bleed proc, while having hurricane going, rally tick, Crit surge. Kills and just drops out and rebuffs/ debuffs their target 15 seconds later.

1. The abilities would scale off of the highest pool: stamina or magicka, as well as weapon or spell damage.
2. It wouldn't. As a toggle activation, you gain nothing from Battle Roar since nothing is paid upon activating the Ultimate. Using WW abilities while in WW has no effect on battle roar because those abilities are not ultimates.
3. Yes, they would. This is no different from Overload attacks.
4. Activation is a toggle as thus has no upfront cost to toggle on, but would have non-cancellable a transformation animation.
5. Ultimate costs for WW abilities are static values, unaffected by gear or class passives that reduce costs.
6. Any active effects, buffs, and debuffs "fall-off" during transformation between states, with an animation between shifting forms. Slotted abilities such as Inner Light or Expert Hunter would fall off since they are obviously not present on the WW bar. Gear bonuses do not apply in WW form as the WW gets its own stat/effect buffs while transformed. Gear sets that effect WW duration or costs would obviously be reworked in some way such as having bonuses that affect both human and WW form, allowing the one exception to the "no gear bonuses" rule. This allows the gear to remain interesting and useful to WW players. A player can choose to gear for WW or their human form, whichever they feel they will use more often.
7. See answer to question 1.
8. They wouldn't. I mentioned this somewhat in my response to question 5.

Your scenario is rendered largely impossible by my solution stated in question 6. Having any active buffs and debuffs fall-off during transformation ensures the WW player cannot stack human form buffs and WW enhanced stats. Hurricane, Crit Surge, and Rally are all active effects and would fall off immediately upon transformation. Werewolf abilities that are buffing the WW player fall-off upon shifting back to human form as well. Transformation has a non-cancellable animation so a WW cannot quickly shift "on the fly" for a 2H execute or anything like that. Werewolf Transformation is a tactical move to be used prior to and perhaps in-between fights. Running out of ultimate in the middle of a fight as a WW should be punished, just like any other player running out of resources.

**Also, ZoS could always add a new werewolf armor set based around hunting werewolves. The 5p bonus could afford the player to drain some ultimate from a WW-form enemy upon striking them with an attack. This effect would of course have a cooldown. This could allow counterplay for players who wish to keep WW's in check.

Chrlynsch · June 2018

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Werewolf Transformation should be a toggle Ultimate just like Overload. Player pops it on, transforms, and the WW bar abilities cost some ultimate to use (instead of the current mag/stam costs). Devour instead grants a short duration of Major Heroism upon consuming a corpse. A player can toggle off WW at any time, with a transformation back to human form. Any unspent ultimate is retained for future use, just like Overload. Should a player run out of ultimate during WW form, the WW transformation will automatically toggle off.

See? The solution is not complicated whatsoever and the code for this solution already exists in the game files so the dev team can use existing assets from the Overload code to build this. Since the code will be similar in structure to Overload, the bugs should be minimal.

*Players would not be able to place any other abilities on the WW bar, unlike Sorcs with their Overload bar. HOWEVER, they can rearrange/bind the 5 WW abilities on the bar any way they choose.

From a balance point of view, yes this is much more complicated than that. Even if you remove the fear and invulnerability frames from the transformations, having at-will werewolf after full-buff on yourself and full-debuff on your opponents would be completely overpowered, as shown in my video two posts above.

Also the overload code is not an example of bug-free / ready-to-use code ... you can currently slot another ultimate on your overload bar ...

Seriously? All ZoS has to do is remove any ongoing WW specific buffs from the player upon reverting back to human form. It's not overpowered - players will have to adapt to the change, just like anything else. I never said the Overload bar was bug-free, but did say it would allow for minimal bugs. What bugs do crop up would be more easily identified as a result. By the way, what is your counter-solution since mine is "clearly overpowered"?

The can of worms is more full than you think it is.

1. What do all the abilities scale off of if they now cost ult?
2. How does the transformation interact with Battle Roar?
3. Do light and heavy attacks cost ulti like overload?
4. How much is the new activation cost of the ult?
5. How much does each ability cost? Does sorc and templar passives lower this cost?
6. How does ulti gen work inform? Do sets/passives still work?
7. Is the magic pool now irrelevant?
8. How do sets like salvation, alteration, and dragon interact with the werewolf ability costs?

Aznox overpowered statement was in reference to werewolves having full buffs all the time after transforming into form.
Think of a sorc able to proc a masters bleed, bleed from slashes, pop into form, werewolf bleed proc, while having hurricane going, rally tick, Crit surge. Kills and just drops out and rebuffs/ debuffs their target 15 seconds later.

1. The abilities would scale off of the highest pool: stamina or magicka, as well as weapon or spell damage.
2. It wouldn't. As a toggle activation, you gain nothing from Battle Roar since nothing is paid upon activating the Ultimate. Using WW abilities while in WW has no effect on battle roar because those abilities are not ultimates.
3. Yes, they would. This is no different from Overload attacks.
4. Activation is a toggle as thus has no upfront cost to toggle on, but would have non-cancellable a transformation animation.
5. Ultimate costs for WW abilities are static values, unaffected by gear or class passives that reduce costs.
6. Any active effects, buffs, and debuffs "fall-off" during transformation between states, with an animation between shifting forms. Slotted abilities such as Inner Light or Expert Hunter would fall off since they are obviously not present on the WW bar. Gear bonuses do not apply in WW form as the WW gets its own stat/effect buffs while transformed. Gear sets that effect WW duration or costs would obviously be reworked in some way such as having bonuses that affect both human and WW form, allowing the one exception to the "no gear bonuses" rule. This allows the gear to remain interesting and useful to WW players. A player can choose to gear for WW or their human form, whichever they feel they will use more often.
7. See answer to question 1.
8. They wouldn't. I mentioned this somewhat in my response to question 5.

Your scenario is rendered largely impossible by my solution stated in question 6. Having any active buffs and debuffs fall-off during transformation ensures the WW player cannot stack human form buffs and WW enhanced stats. Hurricane, Crit Surge, and Rally are all active effects and would fall off immediately upon transformation. Werewolf abilities that are buffing the WW player fall-off upon shifting back to human form as well. Transformation has a non-cancellable animation so a WW cannot quickly shift "on the fly" for a 2H execute or anything like that. Werewolf Transformation is a tactical move to be used prior to and perhaps in-between fights. Running out of ultimate in the middle of a fight as a WW should be punished, just like any other player running out of resources.

**Also, ZoS could always add a new werewolf armor set based around hunting werewolves. The 5p bonus could afford the player to drain some ultimate from a WW-form enemy upon striking them with an attack. This effect would of course have a cooldown. This could allow counterplay for players who wish to keep WW's in check.

I thought you said the change would not be overly complicated? You've made it anything but...