TequilaFire wrote: »While I don't agree with a set like Sload's, I still question the wisdom of trying to play solo Rambo in a game designed and balanced around multiplayer MMO PvP.
While it can be done by some very good players to some extent most should realize they are fighting a losing battle no matter how many sets/skills get nerfed.
TequilaFire wrote: »While I don't agree with a set like Sload's, I still question the wisdom of trying to play solo Rambo in a game designed and balanced around multiplayer MMO PvP.
While it can be done by some very good players to some extent most should realize they are fighting a losing battle no matter how many sets/skills get nerfed.
If you take the time to read ZOS interviews about AvA while ESO was in development, you'll learn that it was designed to cater to solo, small group and large group playstyles.
It's not only supposed to be a big zergfest.
TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »While I don't agree with a set like Sload's, I still question the wisdom of trying to play solo Rambo in a game designed and balanced around multiplayer MMO PvP.
While it can be done by some very good players to some extent most should realize they are fighting a losing battle no matter how many sets/skills get nerfed.
If you take the time to read ZOS interviews about AvA while ESO was in development, you'll learn that it was designed to cater to solo, small group and large group playstyles.
It's not only supposed to be a big zergfest.
But that is not what actually happened is it?
Most in those interviews aren't even with ZOS anymore.
Development has favored the zerg for the last couple of years.
TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »While I don't agree with a set like Sload's, I still question the wisdom of trying to play solo Rambo in a game designed and balanced around multiplayer MMO PvP.
While it can be done by some very good players to some extent most should realize they are fighting a losing battle no matter how many sets/skills get nerfed.
If you take the time to read ZOS interviews about AvA while ESO was in development, you'll learn that it was designed to cater to solo, small group and large group playstyles.
It's not only supposed to be a big zergfest.
But that is not what actually happened is it?
Most in those interviews aren't even with ZOS anymore.
Development has favored the zerg for the last couple of years.
That's not true. Most of the interviews were with Brian Wheeler. Regardless, saying that Cyrodiil wasn't designed for solo play is incorrect. And up until recently, solo play was still very viable. Sload's is the main offender, but not the only one.
Players have every right to express their opinions if they feel the recent game design is trampling on their playstyle. Hopefully ZOS not only fixes Sload's but thinks of this backlash before it introduces the next Sload's.
If we all shut up and took it, the ZOS reaction would be, "oh, I guess it's fine!"
TequilaFire wrote: »Sure you can play solo, but if you think you are going to play Rambo at hit and run on a group I'm in your going down.
Attack my friends you pay the price no matter what OP cheese build you may be wearing. That's right, the ones that complain the most about an overpowered build are using one themselves.
TequilaFire wrote: »Sure you can play solo, but if you think you are going to play Rambo at hit and run on a group I'm in your going down.
Attack my friends you pay the price no matter what OP cheese build you may be wearing. That's right, the ones that complain the most about an overpowered build are using one themselves.
Not relevant to the discussion. I have no idea who you are or how good you are. That's not the point at all. This is a discussion about Sload's and the specific impact it has to solo players because how it affects counterplay.
TequilaFire wrote: »Yes it counters your play style as it should. No one person in a broken build should be able to take on a group of players without having a counter. Go 1v1 or play battlefields if you want small scale.
TequilaFire wrote: »Sure you can play solo, but if you think you are going to play Rambo at hit and run on a group I'm in your going down.
Attack my friends you pay the price no matter what OP cheese build you may be wearing. That's right, the ones that complain the most about an overpowered build are using one themselves.
Not relevant to the discussion. I have no idea who you are or how good you are. That's not the point at all. This is a discussion about Sload's and the specific impact it has to solo players because how it affects counterplay.
TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »Sure you can play solo, but if you think you are going to play Rambo at hit and run on a group I'm in your going down.
Attack my friends you pay the price no matter what OP cheese build you may be wearing. That's right, the ones that complain the most about an overpowered build are using one themselves.
Not relevant to the discussion. I have no idea who you are or how good you are. That's not the point at all. This is a discussion about Sload's and the specific impact it has to solo players because how it affects counterplay.
Yes it counters your play style as it should. No one person in a broken build should be able to take on a group of players without having a counter. Go 1v1 or play battlefields if you want small scale. They screwed up and made Sload's stack, they will fix it.
Waffennacht wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »Sure you can play solo, but if you think you are going to play Rambo at hit and run on a group I'm in your going down.
Attack my friends you pay the price no matter what OP cheese build you may be wearing. That's right, the ones that complain the most about an overpowered build are using one themselves.
Not relevant to the discussion. I have no idea who you are or how good you are. That's not the point at all. This is a discussion about Sload's and the specific impact it has to solo players because how it affects counterplay.
But you do know how good or bad the players using sload are?
That's what bothers me in a lot of these threads, "potatoes are now killing me!". How the hell do you know if the player is a potato? If I die to @Lexxypwns or a Potato with sload, the out come is the same, so how am I able to determine if it's not @Lexxypwns using sload?
And don't give me, "I've played x potatoes before" believe it or not, players can improve
TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »Sure you can play solo, but if you think you are going to play Rambo at hit and run on a group I'm in your going down.
Attack my friends you pay the price no matter what OP cheese build you may be wearing. That's right, the ones that complain the most about an overpowered build are using one themselves.
Not relevant to the discussion. I have no idea who you are or how good you are. That's not the point at all. This is a discussion about Sload's and the specific impact it has to solo players because how it affects counterplay.
Yes it counters your play style as it should. No one person in a broken build should be able to take on a group of players without having a counter. Go 1v1 or play battlefields if you want small scale. They screwed up and made Sload's stack, they will fix it.
There are several counters especially to 1vX.
Curse stacking, PotL/ Purifying, poison stacking, bleeds+ sloads, siphoner, defile stacking, shieldbreaker and on and on
There are so many Xv1 tools in this game that you can wreck any single 1vX player without leaving him a single chance. It's often enough to use one of the things above and ruin the solo players day
Waffennacht wrote: »That's what bothers me in a lot of these threads, "potatoes are now killing me!". How the hell do you know if the player is a potato? If I die to @Lexxypwns or a Potato with sload, the out come is the same, so how am I able to determine if it's not @Lexxypwns using sload?
And don't give me, "I've played x potatoes before" believe it or not, players can improve
Waffennacht wrote: »That's what bothers me in a lot of these threads, "potatoes are now killing me!". How the hell do you know if the player is a potato? If I die to @Lexxypwns or a Potato with sload, the out come is the same, so how am I able to determine if it's not @Lexxypwns using sload?
And don't give me, "I've played x potatoes before" believe it or not, players can improve
Because we can use logic and reason. Read the actual criticisms about the set. It is OP because it has too many functions both in the form of damage and counters while being very easy to apply and maintain a high uptime.
TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »Sure you can play solo, but if you think you are going to play Rambo at hit and run on a group I'm in your going down.
Attack my friends you pay the price no matter what OP cheese build you may be wearing. That's right, the ones that complain the most about an overpowered build are using one themselves.
Not relevant to the discussion. I have no idea who you are or how good you are. That's not the point at all. This is a discussion about Sload's and the specific impact it has to solo players because how it affects counterplay.
Yes it counters your play style as it should. No one person in a broken build should be able to take on a group of players without having a counter. Go 1v1 or play battlefields if you want small scale. They screwed up and made Sload's stack, they will fix it.
There are several counters especially to 1vX.
Curse stacking, PotL/ Purifying, poison stacking, bleeds+ sloads, siphoner, defile stacking, shieldbreaker and on and on
There are so many Xv1 tools in this game that you can wreck any single 1vX player without leaving him a single chance. It's often enough to use one of the things above and ruin the solo players day
And every single one of those have had the same people trying to get them removed as well.
Waffennacht wrote: »Player skill isn't an argument.
Waffennacht wrote: »Player skill isn't an argument.
The skill of the player is relevant because it's so easy to apply. Some proc sets require a certain kind of damage, a specific ability or even a combination of abilities. Some proc sets have a low uptime.
Sload has the most basic requirement possible in addition to being very strong. This must all be considered in the context of the stated goal ZOS has to raise the floor and lower the ceiling -- in the words of Rich Lambert.
It is also very easy to obtain.
Playing solo was already bad enough because of Wizard's Riposte and Durok's Bane which are everywhere. Now added to constant Minor Maim and near constant Major Defile, there is Sload's Semblance countering cloak, block and shields.
TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »Sure you can play solo, but if you think you are going to play Rambo at hit and run on a group I'm in your going down.
Attack my friends you pay the price no matter what OP cheese build you may be wearing. That's right, the ones that complain the most about an overpowered build are using one themselves.
Not relevant to the discussion. I have no idea who you are or how good you are. That's not the point at all. This is a discussion about Sload's and the specific impact it has to solo players because how it affects counterplay.
Yes it counters your play style as it should. No one person in a broken build should be able to take on a group of players without having a counter. Go 1v1 or play battlefields if you want small scale. They screwed up and made Sload's stack, they will fix it.
There are several counters especially to 1vX.
Curse stacking, PotL/ Purifying, poison stacking, bleeds+ sloads, siphoner, defile stacking, shieldbreaker and on and on
There are so many Xv1 tools in this game that you can wreck any single 1vX player without leaving him a single chance. It's often enough to use one of the things above and ruin the solo players day
And every single one of those have had the same people trying to get them removed as well.
Yes because they scale exponentially with the amount of people outnumbering the target.
If you are hit by frags in a 1v1 or 1vX it will deal the same damage, also your own frag will work just as good in the 1v1 as it will perform in the 1vX.
If we use the following 3 things now to show how they work better in a Xv1 than in a 1v1 it may be more clear to you why they are a problem.
PotL: in a 1v1 the caster has to provide 100% of the damage and has a harder time finding an offensive window to maximise the damage output
In a Xv1 every additional enemy reduces the damage one individual has to apply to reach the full burst damage of an unblockable and undodgeable skill, this also works if the caster is a healbot that provides 0 other offensive pressure.
In a 1vX PotL makes a turn for the worst, your offensive window is highly limited and requires focusing one single opponent with all your damage.
Poisons:
In a 1v1 your poison will be able to proc every 10 seconds on the same enemy and vise versa.
In a Xv1 you can be affected by any single poison effect in this game with absolutely no cooldown
And in a 1vX you can only apply the poison once every 10 seconds to one single enemy reducing it's overall effectiveness massively
Curse: in a 1v1 it works the same for everyone, both players can be affected by one curse at the time reducing their health on every explosion by being undodgeable, unblockable and uncloakable
In a Xv1 the solo player can be oneshotted with the only counterplay being purge (=/= not reliable counterplay for 8/10 Stacks) if you stack x amounts of curses you can kill any player with Y health as you just have to bring them down to 20% of their health for mage's wrath to finish the job.
In a 1vX curse works like poisons you can only apply it to one single player at the time reducing it's overall effectiveness drastically with the amount of enemies you face, this is fine however as you can actively choose the target and there is ofc a punishment towards your damage and healing in a 1vX compared to the X
TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »Sure you can play solo, but if you think you are going to play Rambo at hit and run on a group I'm in your going down.
Attack my friends you pay the price no matter what OP cheese build you may be wearing. That's right, the ones that complain the most about an overpowered build are using one themselves.
Not relevant to the discussion. I have no idea who you are or how good you are. That's not the point at all. This is a discussion about Sload's and the specific impact it has to solo players because how it affects counterplay.
Yes it counters your play style as it should. No one person in a broken build should be able to take on a group of players without having a counter. Go 1v1 or play battlefields if you want small scale. They screwed up and made Sload's stack, they will fix it.
There are several counters especially to 1vX.
Curse stacking, PotL/ Purifying, poison stacking, bleeds+ sloads, siphoner, defile stacking, shieldbreaker and on and on
There are so many Xv1 tools in this game that you can wreck any single 1vX player without leaving him a single chance. It's often enough to use one of the things above and ruin the solo players day
And every single one of those have had the same people trying to get them removed as well.
Yes because they scale exponentially with the amount of people outnumbering the target.
If you are hit by frags in a 1v1 or 1vX it will deal the same damage, also your own frag will work just as good in the 1v1 as it will perform in the 1vX.
If we use the following 3 things now to show how they work better in a Xv1 than in a 1v1 it may be more clear to you why they are a problem.
PotL: in a 1v1 the caster has to provide 100% of the damage and has a harder time finding an offensive window to maximise the damage output
In a Xv1 every additional enemy reduces the damage one individual has to apply to reach the full burst damage of an unblockable and undodgeable skill, this also works if the caster is a healbot that provides 0 other offensive pressure.
In a 1vX PotL makes a turn for the worst, your offensive window is highly limited and requires focusing one single opponent with all your damage.
Poisons:
In a 1v1 your poison will be able to proc every 10 seconds on the same enemy and vise versa.
In a Xv1 you can be affected by any single poison effect in this game with absolutely no cooldown
And in a 1vX you can only apply the poison once every 10 seconds to one single enemy reducing it's overall effectiveness massively
Curse: in a 1v1 it works the same for everyone, both players can be affected by one curse at the time reducing their health on every explosion by being undodgeable, unblockable and uncloakable
In a Xv1 the solo player can be oneshotted with the only counterplay being purge (=/= not reliable counterplay for 8/10 Stacks) if you stack x amounts of curses you can kill any player with Y health as you just have to bring them down to 20% of their health for mage's wrath to finish the job.
In a 1vX curse works like poisons you can only apply it to one single player at the time reducing it's overall effectiveness drastically with the amount of enemies you face, this is fine however as you can actively choose the target and there is ofc a punishment towards your damage and healing in a 1vX compared to the X
So what you guys want is that damage produced by grouped X should be no more than damage produced by 1 against a single player.
See I can't wrap my head around how a game can ever be balanced for small scale and large scale at the same time without getting rid of CP and all status boosters - sets, poisons, potions etc.
And apparently neither can game developers.
TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »Sure you can play solo, but if you think you are going to play Rambo at hit and run on a group I'm in your going down.
Attack my friends you pay the price no matter what OP cheese build you may be wearing. That's right, the ones that complain the most about an overpowered build are using one themselves.
Not relevant to the discussion. I have no idea who you are or how good you are. That's not the point at all. This is a discussion about Sload's and the specific impact it has to solo players because how it affects counterplay.
Yes it counters your play style as it should. No one person in a broken build should be able to take on a group of players without having a counter. Go 1v1 or play battlefields if you want small scale. They screwed up and made Sload's stack, they will fix it.
There are several counters especially to 1vX.
Curse stacking, PotL/ Purifying, poison stacking, bleeds+ sloads, siphoner, defile stacking, shieldbreaker and on and on
There are so many Xv1 tools in this game that you can wreck any single 1vX player without leaving him a single chance. It's often enough to use one of the things above and ruin the solo players day
And every single one of those have had the same people trying to get them removed as well.
Yes because they scale exponentially with the amount of people outnumbering the target.
If you are hit by frags in a 1v1 or 1vX it will deal the same damage, also your own frag will work just as good in the 1v1 as it will perform in the 1vX.
If we use the following 3 things now to show how they work better in a Xv1 than in a 1v1 it may be more clear to you why they are a problem.
PotL: in a 1v1 the caster has to provide 100% of the damage and has a harder time finding an offensive window to maximise the damage output
In a Xv1 every additional enemy reduces the damage one individual has to apply to reach the full burst damage of an unblockable and undodgeable skill, this also works if the caster is a healbot that provides 0 other offensive pressure.
In a 1vX PotL makes a turn for the worst, your offensive window is highly limited and requires focusing one single opponent with all your damage.
Poisons:
In a 1v1 your poison will be able to proc every 10 seconds on the same enemy and vise versa.
In a Xv1 you can be affected by any single poison effect in this game with absolutely no cooldown
And in a 1vX you can only apply the poison once every 10 seconds to one single enemy reducing it's overall effectiveness massively
Curse: in a 1v1 it works the same for everyone, both players can be affected by one curse at the time reducing their health on every explosion by being undodgeable, unblockable and uncloakable
In a Xv1 the solo player can be oneshotted with the only counterplay being purge (=/= not reliable counterplay for 8/10 Stacks) if you stack x amounts of curses you can kill any player with Y health as you just have to bring them down to 20% of their health for mage's wrath to finish the job.
In a 1vX curse works like poisons you can only apply it to one single player at the time reducing it's overall effectiveness drastically with the amount of enemies you face, this is fine however as you can actively choose the target and there is ofc a punishment towards your damage and healing in a 1vX compared to the X
So what you guys want is that damage produced by grouped X should be no more than damage produced by 1 against a single player.
See I can't wrap my head around how a game can ever be balanced for small scale and large scale at the same time without getting rid of CP and all status boosters - sets, poisons, potions etc.
And apparently neither can game developers.
TequilaFire wrote: »Which is exactly why I can't see it happening without gutting the things I listed and if you do that you still have numbers to deal with which will always be a fact. A 1vX situation will always have to rely on LOS and positioning skill which is really the only true skill in the game as everything else is still just button pushing even if you are solo.
My position is this is not a solo friendly game in spite of what might have been advertised.
thankyourat wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »Sure you can play solo, but if you think you are going to play Rambo at hit and run on a group I'm in your going down.
Attack my friends you pay the price no matter what OP cheese build you may be wearing. That's right, the ones that complain the most about an overpowered build are using one themselves.
Not relevant to the discussion. I have no idea who you are or how good you are. That's not the point at all. This is a discussion about Sload's and the specific impact it has to solo players because how it affects counterplay.
Yes it counters your play style as it should. No one person in a broken build should be able to take on a group of players without having a counter. Go 1v1 or play battlefields if you want small scale. They screwed up and made Sload's stack, they will fix it.
There are several counters especially to 1vX.
Curse stacking, PotL/ Purifying, poison stacking, bleeds+ sloads, siphoner, defile stacking, shieldbreaker and on and on
There are so many Xv1 tools in this game that you can wreck any single 1vX player without leaving him a single chance. It's often enough to use one of the things above and ruin the solo players day
And every single one of those have had the same people trying to get them removed as well.
Yes because they scale exponentially with the amount of people outnumbering the target.
If you are hit by frags in a 1v1 or 1vX it will deal the same damage, also your own frag will work just as good in the 1v1 as it will perform in the 1vX.
If we use the following 3 things now to show how they work better in a Xv1 than in a 1v1 it may be more clear to you why they are a problem.
PotL: in a 1v1 the caster has to provide 100% of the damage and has a harder time finding an offensive window to maximise the damage output
In a Xv1 every additional enemy reduces the damage one individual has to apply to reach the full burst damage of an unblockable and undodgeable skill, this also works if the caster is a healbot that provides 0 other offensive pressure.
In a 1vX PotL makes a turn for the worst, your offensive window is highly limited and requires focusing one single opponent with all your damage.
Poisons:
In a 1v1 your poison will be able to proc every 10 seconds on the same enemy and vise versa.
In a Xv1 you can be affected by any single poison effect in this game with absolutely no cooldown
And in a 1vX you can only apply the poison once every 10 seconds to one single enemy reducing it's overall effectiveness massively
Curse: in a 1v1 it works the same for everyone, both players can be affected by one curse at the time reducing their health on every explosion by being undodgeable, unblockable and uncloakable
In a Xv1 the solo player can be oneshotted with the only counterplay being purge (=/= not reliable counterplay for 8/10 Stacks) if you stack x amounts of curses you can kill any player with Y health as you just have to bring them down to 20% of their health for mage's wrath to finish the job.
In a 1vX curse works like poisons you can only apply it to one single player at the time reducing it's overall effectiveness drastically with the amount of enemies you face, this is fine however as you can actively choose the target and there is ofc a punishment towards your damage and healing in a 1vX compared to the X
So what you guys want is that damage produced by grouped X should be no more than damage produced by 1 against a single player.
See I can't wrap my head around how a game can ever be balanced for small scale and large scale at the same time without getting rid of CP and all status boosters - sets, poisons, potions etc.
And apparently neither can game developers.
No. we want damage that has more counter play and takes skill to use. damage that becomes unavoidable or can't be mitigated will always favor the Zerg or the player that's less skillful. A lot of the skills listed leave very little counterplay for the individual if they are outnumbered making the game not fun or rewarding for the solo player. I been seeing the same bad players for years they haven't gotten any better they are still slow with their animations, they still haven't learned good positioning or when to reset a fight, but they are harder to 1vX because the sheer amount of pressure players can apply from pressing one button is getting ridiculous. They don't even have to use skills anymore to apply de-buffs to players because the sets do it for them. resource poisons proc sets abilities like curse or potl are just rewarding outnumbering your opponent way too much
TequilaFire wrote: »Which is exactly why I can't see it happening without gutting the things I listed and if you do that you still have numbers to deal with which will always be a fact. A 1vX situation will always have to rely on LOS and positioning skill which is really the only true skill in the game as everything else is still just button pushing even if you are solo.
My position is this is not a solo friendly game in spite of what might have been advertised.
Any how exactly does Sload's accomplish your vision of encouraging multiplayer gameplay? By getting people to spam light attacks in a zerg instead of individually? That's some complicated teamwork right there.
Multiplayer dynamics emerge when players understand the strengths and limitations of their class and build, and group with other specs that synergise and fill in the gaps.
Teaching new players that they can win fights by spamming light attacks with the occasional snipe/poison inject results in them never learning the intricacies of their class and build. It leads to mindless zerging, and that is not genuine "multiplayer".