Crown Store: I feel deceived

himbeerschaf · June 2018

Dear zenimax,

as I can see now, there have been disucussions about the additional Outfit Slot Upgrade here on the forums.
Since I'm new to the forums and never had problems with the Crown Store, naturally I didn't know about them.
And I shouldn't have to.

I bought an addional outfit slot for the price of a Dungeon DLC - and I was more than disappointed, and angry, to see that these slots are per character and not account wide.

Almost every other upgrade (assistants, crown mimic gems, riding lessons, motifs...) are, according to common sense, at least tradeable and therewith account wide.
I was certain the outfit slot, for *that price*, was account wide.

It's not.

Now I'm not here to debate that ridiculous pricing, because it won't lead to anything.

The information/tooltip for that store item is deceiving.

"This unlocks 1 additional outfit. [...]"
Everything else in the "Crafting" category is usable on every character.

When unlocking another Upgrade, like the assistants, it says:
"[Character description] - When summoned, his services can be used by you and your groupmates."
There is no hint that this is an account wide usable Upgrade - because that's common sense.

The information that the outfit slots are per character is NOWHERE to be found.
I feel cheated. And I'm certain this information is left out on purpose.

I left a lot of cash in that store - I will no longer do that.

Please add a refund-system for bought and never used Crown Store Items.

You scammed me out of my money and I want it back.

Sincerly,
a very angry himbeerschaf

JaZ2091 · June 2018

If you create a well-mannered, concise ticket explaining the situation and politely request a refund they might do so. But yes, unfortunately these days you have to research items before you purchase them especially digital items.

Troneon · June 2018

It's pure greed on ZOS's part, never known a game to monetize everything so heavily that things in other games like this are account bound but in ESO, only character unlocked....

It's pure scummery.

I mean maybe im getting old but games in the 90's/00's had this right....account unlocks on all purchases...even inventory...

Publishers are just taking this monetize every single little thing inside every other thing way way too far it's actually pushing gamers away from AAA company's and towards smaller dev and indie studios or crowd funding games....

himbeerschaf · June 2018

JaZ2091 wrote: »

If you create a well-mannered, concise ticket explaining the situation and politely request a refund they might do so. But yes, unfortunately these days you have to research items before you purchase them especially digital items.

I tried that, can't find the right category.
What do you suggest? If I choose "problem with an item" the form requires me to choose the item and start a request based on that. I'm honestly confused what to choose

OrdoHermetica · June 2018

himbeerschaf wrote: »

JaZ2091 wrote: »

If you create a well-mannered, concise ticket explaining the situation and politely request a refund they might do so. But yes, unfortunately these days you have to research items before you purchase them especially digital items.

I tried that, can't find the right category.
What do you suggest? If I choose "problem with an item" the form requires me to choose the item and start a request based on that. I'm honestly confused what to choose

I suggest you submit a ticket through the website, not the game client. You can do that here: https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/

Also, there's an unofficial megathread on this topic that I recommend you share your experiences in - because yeah, you're far from alone in feeling it's pretty sketchy in the extreme, and the only way things like this typically change is with enough people voicing their opinions and concerns.

The_Protagonist · June 2018

There is no scam in it at all, it is not deception, as a consumer in the market it is your responsibility to understand what you are getting, tell me honestly did you read TOS when you signed up for the game, if you did then you should have researched the product/service you were committing your crowns to, and if you did not, then you are like the many who do not understand today's market.

Ethically speaking today's business practices are bad, but the law supports them and there is nothing you do about it, ZOS is just a fish in the vast ocean trying to get it's place in the world market.

BTW the outfit system was discussed at length during PTS and also after release, better keep an eye on the forums if you are going commit additional resources to this game to ensure you get a product that will satisfy you.

Also as someone said above, you can still open a ticket politely asking for a refund, who knows, they might do it if you are lucky.

Good Luck.

logarifmik · June 2018

So many complaints and the problem is still here, and it's only the tip of the iceberg. What about people, which bought the Outfit Slot, found that it character-wide and decided to let it slide? Are you trying to rip off even more people, Zenimax?

Ectheliontnacil · June 2018

Personally I wouldn't mind the crown store at all, if it weren't ridiculously overpriced (some items at least). I spent around 40-50k crowns on housing and all I have to show for is one fully furnished dressing room. Of course I used fancy items to decorate (ornate vases, lamps and wardrobes...) but I spent almost 200 Euros on one *** room!!! I mean it's my own fault, but it has definitely turned me off of housing.

The_Protagonist · June 2018

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't mind the crown store at all, if it weren't ridiculously overpriced (some items at least). I spent around 40-50k crowns on housing and all I have to show for is one fully furnished dressing room. Of course I used fancy items to decorate (ornate vases, lamps and wardrobes...) but I spent almost 200 Euros on one *** room!!! I mean it's my own fault, but it has definitely turned me off of housing.

It's called buyers remorse.

MajesticHaruki · June 2018

ZOS it's time to make the outfit slots account wide.

Morgul667 · June 2018

ZO$ truely crossed a line with the outfit costs

+ crown store purchases are misleading if not deceiptful, yet they keep it like that

They would have sold much mure if they were account wide, the greed on those price is hard to believe

abuniffpreub18_ESO · June 2018

They get the goldmine, you get the shaft.

TelvanniWizard · June 2018

You´ve been Zo$$ed!

Stewart1874 · June 2018

Its obviously deliberate. As you say everything else is account wide and this is not a consumable like a potion, food or a scroll. They've preyed off of the ambiguity this creates there is no mention that it is only character. ZOS are wrong to do this, its unethical and they should acknowledge that now and refund those few who've bought it on all characters whilst making the rest account wide.

I hate ZOS so much, they really are just screwing the consumer at every turn and its getting very tiring. Least player friendly games company i've seen in a long time. EA will be very jealous of you scumbuckets.

I'd actually like an explanation to why it is not account wide - watching someone attempt to justify this BS would at least be funny.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO · June 2018

Well if you are lucky, some representative will see your thread and tell they removed some posts.

The_Protagonist · June 2018

Morgul667 wrote: »

ZO$ truely crossed a line with the outfit costs

+ crown store purchases are misleading if not deceiptful, yet they keep it like that

They would have sold much mure if they were account wide, the greed on those price is hard to believe

Current crown store pricing indicates that there are too many whales in game right now, inflated prices are there because it's selling simple fact, otherwise you will see discounts soon enough.

Just a few hours ago, I saw a post about a person who spent several hundred euros for getting Radiant Apex Mounts that in my opinion look like funny traffic signals. Businesses are made on consumer's satisfaction, and I can tell you he/she was one satisfied customer.

The only way a consumer can control the product/service provider is by giving or denying business to the provider. But if you succumb to their marketing and later regret it, then you only have yourself to blame for it. Self control is important in all aspects of life, even in a place where you come for recreation, virtual or otherwise.

Waffennacht · June 2018

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

Well if you are lucky, some representative will see your thread and tell they removed some posts.

That's actually really funny because it's true!

abigfishy · June 2018

On one character is really bad, if this was AC wide I would buy it. Lucky for me I did research so did not buy this even though I would love it. Make it account wide and ZOS will get my money.

Elsonso · June 2018

OrdoHermetica wrote: »

Also, there's an unofficial megathread on this topic that I recommend you share your experiences in - because yeah, you're far from alone in feeling it's pretty sketchy in the extreme, and the only way things like this typically change is with enough people voicing their opinions and concerns.

That is actually sad, to be honest. Players thinking that ZOS won't change how they market and sell items unless there is a protest of a certain size. I have no idea if it is true, but it might as well be.

Part of the reason that I find a lot of what ZOS does to be so aggravating is that I am standing here watching them make mistakes, and it just hurts. They need help, and the really sad part is that I think that they think they are doing just fine.

DanteYoda · June 2018

In the future read up and then save your money.

ADarklore · June 2018

lordrichter wrote: »

OrdoHermetica wrote: »

Also, there's an unofficial megathread on this topic that I recommend you share your experiences in - because yeah, you're far from alone in feeling it's pretty sketchy in the extreme, and the only way things like this typically change is with enough people voicing their opinions and concerns.

That is actually sad, to be honest. Players thinking that ZOS won't change how they market and sell items unless there is a protest of a certain size. I have no idea if it is true, but it might as well be.

Part of the reason that I find a lot of what ZOS does to be so aggravating is that I am standing here watching them make mistakes, and it just hurts. They need help, and the really sad part is that I think that they think they are doing just fine.

Well, I'm sure according to their accounting and marketing department, they ARE doing just fine as far as their profits are concerned. That's basically how any business determines success... if they are meeting their target sales/profit goals each year, they are doing just fine. It isn't until their annual income falls below target that they begin to become concerned and start making business adjustments to address it.

Sergykid · June 2018

many tooltips and informations are outdated, old, or completely wrong in the entire game. Even in the F1 help section at bow it still says that you must release the mouse button to fire. Or abilities that are treated as dots or not as aoes, etc.

Sektion67 · June 2018

The community has made their voice heard on this topic, as others have pointed out. Unfortunately, the people that can effect change don't seem to be listening/reading these forums. I'd be shocked if this exact topic hasn't been discussed in meetings, however, a decision has clearly been made to not engage.

"Handle any complaints through the ticketing system and move on", seems to be the directive. When ZOS sets a price or implements a feature that directly impacts money, it's pretty much set in stone.

Off-topic, but I really wish this game would have thrived on a strict monthly sub model. It would have been sooo much more enjoyable for me.

jcasini222ub17_ESO · June 2018

Always remember folks, crown prices must take into account sitting crowns in accounts.

Case in point I have 4,400 crowns available from subbing right now with no intention to spend.

Their pricing models need to take into this dead weight, since for me to buy crowns one would assume I would spend the 4,400 first.

The goal is to sell crown packs, their prices need to be high enough to burn the 1500 monthly crowns given to each subscriber.

Ectheliontnacil · June 2018

The_Protagonist wrote: »

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't mind the crown store at all, if it weren't ridiculously overpriced (some items at least). I spent around 40-50k crowns on housing and all I have to show for is one fully furnished dressing room. Of course I used fancy items to decorate (ornate vases, lamps and wardrobes...) but I spent almost 200 Euros on one *** room!!! I mean it's my own fault, but it has definitely turned me off of housing.

It's called buyers remorse.

@The_Protagonist

Of course it's buyers remorse, what's your point?

Elsonso · June 2018

ADarklore wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

OrdoHermetica wrote: »

Also, there's an unofficial megathread on this topic that I recommend you share your experiences in - because yeah, you're far from alone in feeling it's pretty sketchy in the extreme, and the only way things like this typically change is with enough people voicing their opinions and concerns.

That is actually sad, to be honest. Players thinking that ZOS won't change how they market and sell items unless there is a protest of a certain size. I have no idea if it is true, but it might as well be.

Part of the reason that I find a lot of what ZOS does to be so aggravating is that I am standing here watching them make mistakes, and it just hurts. They need help, and the really sad part is that I think that they think they are doing just fine.

Well, I'm sure according to their accounting and marketing department, they ARE doing just fine as far as their profits are concerned. That's basically how any business determines success... if they are meeting their target sales/profit goals each year, they are doing just fine. It isn't until their annual income falls below target that they begin to become concerned and start making business adjustments to address it.

Yes. I am sure that they look at revenue and say "it is working", and because change is scary, no one wants to rock that boat. It is rather short sighted, but they are probably OK with that because the games themselves do not endure. They can repeat the same mistakes with each game, and make money at it, simply because players still flock to those games for the short time that they are around.

To me, it is more than just the game. I buy games based on the track record of the studio. I see that ZOS is busy building a brand reputation of Monetize First, Game Second. That is fine. They will make a lot of money at it, particularly if they can develop enough bandwidth to crank out new Monetization Opportunities that are attractive enough to game players. I don't expect to be a long term ZOS customer, so I suppose it doesn't matter.

Yes, I will agree that they definitely don't see it that way.

The_Protagonist · June 2018

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

The_Protagonist wrote: »

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't mind the crown store at all, if it weren't ridiculously overpriced (some items at least). I spent around 40-50k crowns on housing and all I have to show for is one fully furnished dressing room. Of course I used fancy items to decorate (ornate vases, lamps and wardrobes...) but I spent almost 200 Euros on one *** room!!! I mean it's my own fault, but it has definitely turned me off of housing.

It's called buyers remorse.

@The_Protagonist

Of course it's buyers remorse, what's your point?

It's unhealthy for you and us, you would stop playing and we would lose a creative player

Ectheliontnacil · June 2018

@The_Protagonist

Yes, well dw I've given up on housing a long time ago, it's not very good content anyways in my opinion.

I simply wanted to illustrate how overpriced some crown store items are, the OP already knows this too.

Elsonso · June 2018

jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »

Always remember folks, crown prices must take into account sitting crowns in accounts.

Case in point I have 4,400 crowns available from subbing right now with no intention to spend.

Right now, I am sitting on more than that, and there is nothing I want to spend it on. Crown Crates are like using cash to light a fire; they are nothing more than a waste of Crowns. I guess my next planned purchase will be Murkmire, if they don't go crazy with pricing.

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't mind the crown store at all, if it weren't ridiculously overpriced (some items at least). I spent around 40-50k crowns on housing and all I have to show for is one fully furnished dressing room. Of course I used fancy items to decorate (ornate vases, lamps and wardrobes...) but I spent almost 200 Euros on one *** room!!! I mean it's my own fault, but it has definitely turned me off of housing.

From Todd Howard at BE3: "We took a very light monetization approach, and it monetized great. I think gamers reward that. They know when you're gouging them. ... They want to reward you. They don't mind paying for value."

This is why I am sitting on a pile of Crowns. Limited value opportunities in the Crown Store. I get more value from ESO Plus than I do Crowns.

Did you get value for those 200 Euros?

OrdoHermetica · June 2018

lordrichter wrote: »

OrdoHermetica wrote: »

Also, there's an unofficial megathread on this topic that I recommend you share your experiences in - because yeah, you're far from alone in feeling it's pretty sketchy in the extreme, and the only way things like this typically change is with enough people voicing their opinions and concerns.

That is actually sad, to be honest. Players thinking that ZOS won't change how they market and sell items unless there is a protest of a certain size. I have no idea if it is true, but it might as well be.

Part of the reason that I find a lot of what ZOS does to be so aggravating is that I am standing here watching them make mistakes, and it just hurts. They need help, and the really sad part is that I think that they think they are doing just fine.

I mean, I don't know for sure, but based on what I've seen in this game and in others? Yeah, protest and mass player dissatisfaction is the only way to make change happen. There are some companies out there that make it pretty clear that, while making money is definitely important, their main objective is to foster a healthy community and make an excellent game, and making money is a way of furthering that objective. Mission-driven, in other words. Paradox comes to mind.

Others, like EA and, well, ZOS, have that flipped: their goal is to make money, and a healthy community and an excellent game is secondary to that objective. So, yeah, the way you make them change things is not by appealing to their best nature - that's not particularly relevant when the objective is to make as much money as possible - but by demonstrating that their actions are going to cost them money-making opportunities going forward. A dissatisfied customer base that dissuades their friends, guildies, etc. from making a purchase isn't a desirable situation for them, since that costs them potential future sales.

Is it sad that money appears to be the only language that matters here? Yeah, yeah it is, especially since there really are some solid ZOS folks dedicated to the community and the game itself. But at the end of the day, ZOS appears to be almost entirely profit-driven rather than mission-driven.

himbeerschaf · January 2019

To everyone replying I should have done my research:
No.

Let me explain:

I'm someone who does her research hours and hours before buying anything material. You usually see me standing with my phone in a store, researching every last bit of information to the product I have in my bin.

I do that. But I find it ridiculous I have to do that.
I don't like that I have to look out for scams at every turn.
I also know that the world works like that. I'm not 12.

And I don't take it as given that you have to leave the (crown)store, google everything (in a foreign language, that is), just to see what you're *really* buying.

The item descriptions in the store usually tell you everything about the thing you're spending your crowns on.
I feel like the description on the additional outfit slot is deliberately deceiving.

Please, spare me the "it's your fault you got scammed"-talk.
Or with the "Zenimax only wantz ze moneys$$" or that "the crown store sucks anyways" posting.

It's not what I intended, if it sounded like that, I'm sorry.
I tried to keep the tone calm and as objective as possible.
I've worked in UI / UI translation and I know how easy it is to make a mistake in a tooltip.

But that didn't feel like a simple mistake.
And I didn't want to shrug that off.

To conclude this, I use that one additional outfit slot on that one character. I never submitted a ticket or a refund request. And I'm okay-ish with that.

But I'd love to see that tooltip changed.

Thank you for reading this.