Everyone plays DPS, but like pro-golf, even the top 5% don't make a living at it, you have to be in the top tenth of 1% to be what I consider to be good dps. Even in solid trials groups it's not uncommon to see 1 or 2 DPS that are pulling 30-40% more damage than the next highest below them. Its all timing, gear, rotation and attention.

I have usually tanked, and while there are some fights in this game that require a tank to have knowledge and even situational awareness, you don't need fast tempo rhythm.

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Everyone plays DPS, but like pro-golf, even the top 5% don't make a living at it, you have to be in the top tenth of 1% to be what I consider to be good dps. Even in solid trials groups it's not uncommon to see 1 or 2 DPS that are pulling 30-40% more damage than the next highest below them. Its all timing, gear, rotation and attention.

I have usually tanked, and while there are some fights in this game that require a tank to have knowledge and even situational awareness, you don't need fast tempo rhythm.

Hahaha. Only the top tenth of 1%(0.1%) are "good" DPS? I hope your being facetious, otherwise between Everyone that has even voted in this poll, there is LESS than 10% of ONE "good" DPS, and therefore this game is way too fricking hard!

Tank has a lot of responsibility, it's definitely the role I find more demanding, but the more rewarding in the end.

It's the role I played less though so far, still learning and I have lot of fun with the other roles.
Anyways if I have to pick one as the more difficult I definitely say it's tank, even in dungeons, veteran Bloodforge and Fang Liar come to mind, it's one hell of a job and a bad tank in those places is a disgrace.

...all at once.

Which do you think would be harder for a new player to learn?

What do I have to learn to be a good DPS?

Skill one- light attack- skill two - light attack - skill three - light attack - skill four - light attack - skill five - bar swap repeat - basically the same every fight.

What do I have to learn to be a good tank?

Well for this fight you taunt the boss, apply buffs then stand here forfour seconds seconds, then taunt these adds, then block here, dodge roll there, if the adds are still up then retaunt them while pointing the boss over here, reapply debuffs as each comes off so keep 4 different timers in your head, block, interrupt twice, block, dodge roll, retaunt boss, reapply buffs, root the adds, pull them to you, don't lose aggro on the boss, don't let him turn to the left, don't let him hit you with his channeled ability OMG and every fight is different!

You DPSers are dreaming.

The group working together is the most important role

This game is all about DAMAGE, increasing damage with buffs, debuffing with damage mitigation...

Just roll shield stacking mag sorcs DD x 4 in any vet dungeon hard mode and you will see what I mean, it's hilarious. No healer or tank needed.

I picked healer though because they provide more damage through buffs/resources/better resource management/sustain and debuffs on enemy....for the whole group.

Tank is the least needed except for one shot trial content only...and that's only because zos have a hard on for one shot mechanics every two seconds....for lazy game design, in zos's eyes RNG one shots = challenging content.... .

This is due to tanks only needed to hold agro and take damage which any mobile healer / dd with sheilds/self healing can do, except for trials, so tanks are not needed for any content except for trials basically, always better to have 3 x DD or 4 x DD.

Tanks do bring debuffs on boss's but again, they can be brought by any other player easily through skills/sets and enchants so again tank not needed....better to have a hybrid support for more debuffs/heals/buffs or a 3rd/4th DD, a pure tank is only necessary in trials. A MagDK DD/Tank with insane damage is really fun and makes runs ALOT faster than just a pure tank for one example.

Now all of that said, if you have crap damage dealers, regardless if your tank or healer are fricking god mode super soldiers of doom god mode, you can't do any content in ESO because it's all about damage checks in this game, without damage, everything else is pointless, again why having 3-4 DD's is always better.

Hence non-trial 4x Mag Sorcs win PVE everytime. Now if you want to talk pvp that's a whole other story.....oh wait nvm.

Rogue_Ghost wrote: »

Kuwhar

"Eh. If i dont perform as a tank, the group wipes.

If you dont perform as a DPS it just takes a couple extra minutes."

This is EXACTLY why I often feel - let's say - generally unproductive when it comes to some scenarios as a DPS. I enjoy my character and have messed with the build/loadout a few times - which helped a bit - but overall the class still seems to under-perform on the battlefield during larger undertakings.

I jump in, get a few hits until my stamina bar depletes, hit it with an ultimate, back away with my bow to do my little "red zone dance" while flinging arrows all over the place - and then one large strike turns my squishy character into a trip hazard for the other members of the team.

It would be nice to better implement the Blade of Woe into such battles. I don't mean one-hit kills or anything, but being able to use it in some fashion for guaranteed critical damage would be a nice tool for DPS players

A couple extra minutes with Rakkhat means a wipe... just saying

Nifty2g wrote: »

Tank because a leadership role is not for everyone if you don't have the personality for it, you're not going to do very well. Good groups excel with tanks who are able to lead them.

Debuffing is second nature and should come with the role after you do it for awhile.

That's assuming your tank is also your raid lead. I understand it's often the case, but not as a rule, and reason why I believe you should separate the two.

For instance, our raid lead is a DD.


From my perspective, leadership role and tank are not synonyms, so when I'm making the argument I'm strictly speaking about three four (had to add aggro to prevent people arguing "that's not what a tank does") main characteristics of a tank:
1) Ability to mitigate damage.
2) Positioning.
3) Applying debuffs.
4) Keeping aggro.

Ability to mitigate damage is done in part with passive tools (armor, sets, passives) and some degree of active tools (active buffs, blocking).

Positioning is usually agreed upon previous to the engagement, especially in raids, so the difficulty is only in applying. I'm not saying it's trivial, but it's not that hard. I don't agree with people claiming you can tank with your eyes closed.

Applying debuffs, we agree, is not that big of a deal once you get the hang of it.

Keeping aggro, if you only have 1 tank, is not even a discussion, unless one of the DD is trolling with Inner Fire, and avoid overtaunting when you have an OT only requires a little bit of coordination.


By comparison, a DD's main concern is to keep the numbers up, and managing their resources.

A DD can't afford to go full recovery on the glyphs (or even partial).
A DD can't afford to use potions defensively, they have to pop them on CD because they provide relevant buffs (major sorcery/major brutality).
A DD has to keep up multiple dots (usually between 3 and 4) at all times, every 6 to 10s.
A DD has to manage the procs (Frags, NB bow, Whip), failing to do that could mean a massive DPS loss.
A DD has to manage positioning as well, and mechanics, and while it's not, in itself, such a big deal, a DD has to do so while maintaining the dps.

So, while we agree that the role of raid leader is probably the most important one, it's not always the tank, and intrinsically, the role of tank is not that hard.


For the sake of clarity when I'm discussing a topic like that I'm taking into consideration the top tier endgame, not any content, and I'm discussing only top tier performances, so, 100% uptime on buffs/debuffs + positioning and damage mitigation for tanks, 100% buffs/debuffs uptime + healing everyone for healers and highest damage possible for the relative build/kit/class for DDs.

With that premise, I say it's harder to achieve the highest damage possible (the role of a DD), than covering the tank's/healer's bases.

I'm not discussing importance, I'm not discussing obligations unrelated to their specific kit/class/role.

TheGr8David wrote: »

As someone who mains a Tank with a friend who mains a healer, I think I can say for sure that DPS is the hardest role, although it depends on the situation. It would be easier to get away with being a bad DPS in trials than it would being a bad healer or tank, but because of the difficulty curve between dungeons and trials, it's much harder to get away with it in dungeons.

Tank and healer rotations are very much situational and entirely dependent on what type of group support is needed.

DPS, however, typically have BIS skills and a "perfect" rotation that they have to upkeep while managing boss mechanics and avoiding "stupid" deaths from AOE.

That simply isn't true. I can switch to a couple of DPS skills on my healer and do enough damage to clear most vet content with a decent (elite not needed) group. It isn't going to be fast but we are going to finish. What you are talking about is being the best of the best as a damage dealer. Best of the best simply isn't needed to complete content. I don't need a perfect rotation nor do I need the best gear to do enough damage to clear most vet content. True I don't need best gear or perfect rotation to heal or tank either. The point is people who are claiming DPS is harder are using as an example the requirements for being one of the very best in game. Truth is you don't need to be anywhere near best in game DPS to do enough damage to get a group through a dungeon or trial in a respectable amount of time. When you start talking best of the best healers and tanks are expected to contribute DPS and well as doing the things they normally do.

The best players are easily pulling 40k+ DPS. Thing is 25k is plenty for clearing vet content. 25k can be hit without weaving or in some cases without bar swapping. People are getting caught up in high numbers that simply are not needed unless you are trying for the leader board.

Because you always get 2 angry DPS blaming you for them to die, and occasionally a healer who will also blame you for that, especially if some of the bosses have their random RNG "Ok, I will attack DPS now. Wait Tank just taunted me ? Ignore it"

Tank = easiest way to be vote-kicked out of dungeon...

Depends on the content but I would say it's hardest to find good DPS.

Otherwise if the tank is great it usually contribute a great lot to a smooth run. The best runs are when all roles play great though

kargen27 wrote: »

Kuwhar wrote: »

@kargen27 well the op didnt specify "hardest class on the hardest boss only"

It was a generalozed question, so sure you can have the one example prove the general if it fits your filter.

And people keep ignoring:

you cant use the argument that being top tier dps is harder when its unnecessary for 90% of content

As a general matter dps is very straightforward: Do damage, stay out of stupid

Tanking in general requires you to pay more attention, react to more mechanics, as well as skills.

That has been my point all along. The tank controls where and how the battle takes place. The others if the tank is good just do their rotations.

A lot of tank mains make the argument that in ESO you can tank with your eyes closed. I don't agree with it, but I agree that is kinda easy.

If we're talking tanking in general, sure, I may agree with your argument, but tanking in ESO ain't that hard.

There's hardly anything to interrupt, taunt skills guarantee aggro, you can apply all the debuffs you need to with 3 actions (Pierce Armor skill activation, Heroic Slash skill activation, Synergy proc to apply Roar of Alkosh), and the positioning is pre-arranged.

Give you an example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syiea0oLAwk&t=56s

This is an encounter intended for 5 players (1 tank, 1 healer, 3 DDs).

I was Healtanking.

There were mechanics that needed to be activated (spheres appearing at random), a specific ability that needed to be interrupted, I had to apply stacks of "Exposed" (increase the damage done, stack up to 10, each stack lasts 10s), apply Breaching, when a specific buff procced and, on top of that, keep aggro without any kind of taunt skill, just aggro multipliers, twice as hard because it was pure healing aggro.

The gear had to be enough pieces to have a decent amount of HP, and a decent amount of healing rating, the glyphs had to account for defensive skills and crit rating (to crit heals).

Oh, and, ofc, keep my DD alive.

By comparison, tanking in ESO endgame:

1) Taunt the boss, guaranteed aggro for 15s.
2) Assume the agreed upon position for the boss.
3) Apply Pierce Armor (if you used a ranged taunt, ignore this step if point 1 was achieved with this)
4) Use synergy to Proc Alkosh
5) Hold block
6) Use kit/class specific mitigation skill (e.g. Igneous Shield).
7) Pull adds if needed
8) Repeat

On top of that the tank is the priority target for the healers, while DDs may be considered "expendable", therefore, no, they don't "just do their rotation". Add that every single boss in the game has a specific one-shot mechanic that targets a random player in the group, or all of them.

TL;DR; I may agree with you if you're talking "tanking" in general, but not with tanking specifically in ESO.

Everyone is equally important. If the tank is bad, the group wipes. If the healer is bad, the group wipes. If the DDs are bad, the group wipes, well at the very least it will take very long. There's a reason this role setup is everywhere x)