Worst part about magden

seipher09 · June 2018

You know what I think is the worst part about using my magden??

It's not the extremely low damage they provide

It's not the Betty ness preventing me from mounting and interacting with anything pretty darn often.

It's not that a lot of skills take long for animations slowing me down

It isn't the annoying bear which is really there only decent ult to provide a little damage

And it isn't even the fact they are just ruled bad in pve all over for damage.

What I hate the most is they are so fun to play!! The class has such an active playstyle for a mag class and it's skills are fun and I feel so interactive with it. It's hard to play knowing I can do so much better on any other magic class but they just get so boring and stale fast.

I wish they would just get a buff, even a small one just so I can not take 20 minutes to solo a world boss when I can do it in 1 on any other class. Yes that numbers exaggerating but anyone who plays magden will feel that pain. Please zos!! Improve damage a little please!

Vaoh · June 2018

Tell me about it lol. Mag NB DPS is literally better than Mag Warden DPS in every way.

Mag NB:
- Has incredible offheals via Funnel Health and/or Refreshing Path. A Mag Warden has to cast an entirely separate skill every 20sec (Lotus Blossom) to have a lesser equivalent to Funnel Health. They also have no way to mimic the functionality of Refreshing Path.
- Has free Major Expedition from their normal DoT (Crippling Grasp). A Mag Warden has to cast an entirely separate skill every 10-14sec (Falcon’s Swiftness, either morph) to get that, which they pretty much won’t in a trial. It’s very useful to have increased speed in a lot of fights as well.
- Has free permanent Minor Beserk. A Mag Warden has to cast an entirely separate skill every 10sec (Bird of Prey) to get this, or rely on a healer. Not gonna happen in Asylum groups or even some Cloudrest groups where everyone is a NB anyway.
- Has an execute. The most powerful execute in the game. Mag Warden has no spammable execute at all. Eternal Guardian does have some bonus execute damage though when you cast the Ult.
- Has a powerful bow proc, perfect for use on a target that spawns which needs to die asap (such as a protector in Asylum). Mag Warden doesn’t have anything like that for immediate burst damage.
- Has a cheap, powerful single target Ult that is 100% reliable, and backbars the Destro Ult for AoE and beginning boss fights. Mag Warden has to *doublebar* the Eternal Guardian, meaning they do not get a Destro Ult. The Bear can also get slowed, CCed, immobilized, or outright stuck. It can also totally ignore the battle, requiring you to resummon. It also takes time to get from one target to another, gets hit by certain trial mechanics that make it a hazard to the group (The Mage’s chain Lightning, St. Olms Storm of the Heavens, etc), and can outright die. If you do t use the Eternal Guardian a Mag Warden’s DPS is abysmal.
- Has better DPS than Mag Warden even if the Mag Warden does everything perfectly and their bear has a perfect parse (no movement, deaths, etc).

So what makes a Mag Warden worth using you might ask? Well.....

They’re the #1 RP class.

Because of this I won’t be allowed to complete Cloudrest HM on my Mag Warden for a long time (if ever) since I essentially become a liability.

seipher09 · June 2018

Vaoh wrote: »

So what makes a Mag Warden worth using you might ask? Well.....

They’re the #1 RP class.

Honestly I must agree, I feel like I wanted my dark Knight ice mage felling and this really is the only class that can pull it off successfully. It's truly a shame.

The only bonus I feel is I really truly can solo a huge amount but it takes me much longer.

zTrok · June 2018

The way I think about it, is those of us that main Magden are just going to be the best players soon as the meta shifts in our favor ^^

Things have gotta go our way eventually right? Right..?

LinearParadox · June 2018

I'm fairly certain that the reason that MagDen is so weak, is because StamDen is basically the most powerful class in the game, and if MagDen were any stronger then people would cry (and rightfully so) P2W, since its the only class in the game locked behind a paywall.
So as long as they allow StamDen to rule PvP, or until they figure out how to balance it's overtuned af toolkit, MagDen is gonna be left to languish

Sidenote, I have a MagDen, and I don't know how much time and gold I've put into trying to make it not useless. Various meta and off-meta builds, light and heavy armor, even resorting to cheese like resource poisons to try to bridge the performance gap in PvP... nothin. Just nothin.
Until they do something with its ice passives to give it a unique identity in the world of mag builds, it's always going to be compared to a "weaker x" like above @Vaoh said.
MagDen is bottom-tier, and ice MagDen is even worse. That little 7% extra damage class passive doesn't even come close to making up for giving up an Inferno staff or Lightning staff, and the root/slow/control metagame you're supposed to be able to play with ice is nonexistant because everyone and their brother runs Forward Momentum or Mist Form because every damn skill in the game has a snare attached to it, so the only way to not immediately move at a snails pace the moment combat starts is to run one of those things.
Hell I've seen build vidoes from the likes of Blobsky that have MAG BUILDS running Forward Momentum just to deal with it -.-

So ice has no damage, AND no identity/utility.
The only thing you get out of it, is a wonky Magicka block which is hard to make work for and not against you, and an occasional proc of Minor Maim that makes you a little tanker.
That is not enough in PvP, and it's not even close to helpful in PvE where many things (especially important things like bosses) are immune to control anyway!

Khumbu · June 2018

I'm so glad that I love healing, because Mag warden healers are decent and feel like the only acceptable endgame spec.

Imryll · June 2018

The thing that frustrates me most about my magden, is that of all my characters she's the one whose appearance pleases me the most. She's also the one who has the little white wolf cub with the adorable animations as a pet.

_Ahala_ · June 2018

Low skill ceiling... you can’t progress much with the class past a certain point of mastery cause it’s abilities are too predictable and are unable to be used strategically... it needs a rework so that its burst is not so reliant on fissure and so its abilities can actually be used to outplay opponents with stuns, executes, and satisfying burst combos... magden is either too effective against fissuremagnet potatoes where you get a 30 kill battleground game or its absolutely useless and frustrating to play in 1v1 against equals or more skilled players or when trying to pve

_Ahala_ · June 2018

It just needs a fissure rework accompanied by the addition of 2 or 3 more good damaging abilities and for a good hard cc and a spammable execute to be added to its toolkit

Mr_Nobody · June 2018

seipher09 wrote: »

~
What I hate the most is they are so fun to play!! The class has such an active playstyle for a mag class and it's skills are fun and I feel so interactive with it. It's hard to play knowing I can do so much better on any other magic class but they just get so boring and stale fast.
~

wrong, not a magicka templar.

Tasear · June 2018

... lurking class representative

What would make Wardens competitive? Is simple dps numbers or buffs they provide? I always assumed it was less offensive for defense. Maybe it's controversial ice staff?

kojou · June 2018

Tasear wrote: »

... lurking class representative

What would make Wardens competitive? Is simple dps numbers or buffs they provide? I always assumed it was less offensive for defense. Maybe it's controversial ice staff?

IMO...

I have been trying to make it work, but in order to maximize the DPS you have to work with a very complicated rotation of skills (no 2 timings are the same). Blockade 8s, Revenge 12s, Swarm 10s... Good luck working in Fissure every 3 seconds.

Your damage passive buffs magic damage and ice damage which are the weakest forms of damage. Magic damage has no secondary effect and ice is apparently for tanks.

No class stun (PvP).

No snare removal, but that is all magic classes except DK wings.

Frozen Armor and Glacial presence are weak passives. Icy aura isn't great either...

I like tanking and healing on a Warden though.

VikingBerserker · June 2018

I gave up on the viable magden quest. I have a stamden now tho, so there's that.

Badger_Dan_Man · June 2018

seipher09 wrote: »

What I hate the most is they are so fun to play!! The class has such an active playstyle for a mag class and it's skills are fun and I feel so interactive with it. It's hard to play knowing I can do so much better on any other magic class but they just get so boring and stale fast.

I agree, it's very fun to play.

Tasear wrote: »

... lurking class representative

What would make Wardens competitive? Is simple dps numbers or buffs they provide? I always assumed it was less offensive for defense. Maybe it's controversial ice staff?

All of the above, and more. Even with comparable DPS numbers, they still get knocked for not bringing good passives to the group, and the bear is a no-go with some trial guilds. There is just no reason to bring a Mag Warden DPS into a trial over other classes. The offset DoT timers don't bother me as much, as Sorcs have this to an extent as well (blockade, liquid lightning, and haunting curse don't line up). The AoE is actually pretty good with the area DoTs and Deep Fissure, but that is an ancillary benefit for a lot of content. Ice staff is all-around garbage.

Lifemocker · June 2018

Well I'd be happy for another buff for magden. I can do 43-44k dps with the bear, but I'd like to be able to do good damage without it. I have never enjoyed the pets in this game.
And yea I agree, magden is so much fun to play.

ascan7 · June 2018

Tasear wrote: »

... lurking class representative

What would make Wardens competitive? Is simple dps numbers or buffs they provide? I always assumed it was less offensive for defense. Maybe it's controversial ice staff?

Magden dots have weird duration and Fetcher infection could use a buff
You need to double bar the bear, which is a single target ult. So you lose a lot of aoe damage
Ice staff is a separate matter imho

fred4 · June 2018

I played magden for a while in PvP and, contrary to what people say, I did find it powerful. Stacking magicka and wearing Imperial Physique in IC hit people hard and made for good defenses. However I didn't play her much, because I found the playstyle rather one dimensional and boring. There is something about speculatively activating Fissure every 3 seconds that feels detached and unresponsive to the situation at hand. Maybe the same can be said about other classes operating with delayed burst, but I don't play sorc, so I'm not sure. I guess I'm the polar opposite of the OP. Nightblades are more my thing.

Lifemocker · June 2018

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

seipher09 wrote: »

~
What I hate the most is they are so fun to play!! The class has such an active playstyle for a mag class and it's skills are fun and I feel so interactive with it. It's hard to play knowing I can do so much better on any other magic class but they just get so boring and stale fast.
~

wrong, not a magicka templar.

I'm pretty sure range magplar is stronger than magden

Tasear · June 2018

Thanks for insights

seipher09 · June 2018

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

seipher09 wrote: »

~
What I hate the most is they are so fun to play!! The class has such an active playstyle for a mag class and it's skills are fun and I feel so interactive with it. It's hard to play knowing I can do so much better on any other magic class but they just get so boring and stale fast.
~

wrong, not a magicka templar.

I can stand in one spot with bad gear and spam jabs and easily out perform a magwarden

Tasear · June 2018

Just a reminder

https://goo.gl/forms/gGFVynPcDcZn5yiH2

Is a good place to also submit concerns. It generates pie charts and shows most pressing concerns for classes. Though only works if you use it and tell others about it.