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The game is now Pay to win thanks to crowns for gold in game.
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Scorpiodisc✭✭✭skywarnmc27 wrote: »"A Crown Store item is considered an in-game item" So people can spend a ton of RL money, and guild members can gift crown items for in game gold. This is seriously going to SCREW up the entire game, and trading system.
Yet another person that does not even remotely understand what "Pay 2 Win" actually means.Edited by Scorpiodisc on June 9, 2018 12:35PM2 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ArvenAldmeri wrote: »First of, its not pay to win. Second, its against the TOS.
Gina already said it wasn't against the ToS to sell crown items for in game gold, and yes it is p2w
How is it pay to win? what exactly do you win?
You can obtain the amount of gold most people obtain in months to years in a matter of minutes to hours, and then in turn you can use that to create a monopoly on guild vendors in one whole zone to block out anyone trying to bid on them from using in game time3 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Scorpiodisc wrote: »skywarnmc27 wrote: »"A Crown Store item is considered an in-game item" So people can spend a ton of RL money, and guild members can gift crown items for in game gold. This is seriously going to SCREW up the entire game, and trading system.
Yet another person that does not even remotely understand what "Pay 2 Win" actually means.
Pay to win also means to get ahead of the game where most people spend months to years to obtain you literally spend minutes to days3 -
witchdoctor✭✭✭✭✭
✭The P2W influence the OP is talking about is linked to the game's economy, which will most certainly will be affected by the crown store gifting.Gina already said it wasn't against the ToS to sell crown items for in game gold, and yes it is p2w
Pay to Win is a phrase with a distinct meaning, even if the line may be subjective.
Sorry, but it is a great stretch to claim selling crown-purchased items for gold is P2W. Even the idea of gifting a crown-purchased home for a vMOL carry is not P2W, anymore than a paid carry funded by another means is P2W.
Now, if you want to argue this will have an impact, for better or worse, on the game economy? That would be a far more rational argument.
But that is not P2W; that is the developers instituting a potentially game-changing option to players.
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Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Scorpiodisc wrote: »Scorpiodisc wrote: »skywarnmc27 wrote: »"A Crown Store item is considered an in-game item" So people can spend a ton of RL money, and guild members can gift crown items for in game gold. This is seriously going to SCREW up the entire game, and trading system.
Yet another person that does not even remotely understand what "Pay 2 Win" actually means.
Pay to win also means to get ahead of the game where most people spend months to years to obtain you literally spend minutes to days
Sorry, you are so wrong that it is hilarious. Stop trying to invent definitions to suit your strawman argument.
Go ask Blizzard, Gw2, FF14, virtually any mmo with a cash shop and tell me1 -
EvilCroc✭✭✭✭✭
✭Time saving is NOT p2w. And it never was.
You can equally spend you time with real life job or with ingame farming.
It worked in EVE-online (rest in peace, sweet prince) ant it will work in any other game.Edited by EvilCroc on June 9, 2018 12:41PM0 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Time saving is NOT p2w. And it never was.
You can equally spend you time with real life job or with ingame farming.
It worked in EVE-online (rest in peace, sweet prince) ant it will work in any other game.
Sorry but in a game where you have to bid on stalls to sell to the general public yes it is p2w0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Everyone seems to be missing the OP's point. He's not talking about P2W at a combat level. He's talking about the trading game in ESO. To some players, the trading game is more important than PVP or Trials.
He makes a good point. In theory, someone with a large disposable income could throw around Crown gifts to attract/butter up the top sellers and/or accumulate in-game wealth to finance kiosk bids by trading Crown gifts for gold.Ya know they still have to make the gold to spend the gold? Right now trade guilds are offering up services such as two hours of farming or fishing at auctions that sell for a lot more gold than they are probably worth. The members tend to support the guild one way or another. Offering up something from the crown store for auction probably isn't going to change how much a guild brings in each week.
Are you kidding? Bundles of Crown Crates and the most expensive Crown-only houses will be worth millions of gold. Kiosk bids, in theory, could be financed exclusively with gold obtained through Crate trades.
ESO feels less like a game and more like something along the lines of Second Life or IMVU now. It's very disappointing.
You guys realize in World of Warcraft, you can just buy gold for real money, right? Directly from Blizzard, not some 3rd party shady site..
https://us.shop.battle.net/en-us/product/world-of-warcraft-token
Not only that, but you can use the tokens for thier Blizzard net balance, meaning you can buy things like transfers and items from thier store...all with in game gold. Gold you get by selling a token on the auction house you paid for with real money.
You're telling me the WoW player base is able to handle this, but not ESO's?
Never thought I'd see the day ESO players were more whiny than WoW players...yet, here we are...
not just services for wow. I bought Destiny 2 AND season pass, upcoming wow expansion, all of the star craft 2 including Nova missions, starcraft 1 and all the warcrafts - just for the hell of it, WITH wow gold. would have bought diablo 3 too, but I already played the heck out of it on ps4 by the time tokens to bnet balance was added, so.. meh.
and in WoW, gold carries/ gold dkp runs have been a thing for over a decade now. and yet... somehow, the game survives and economy actualy seems to be better for it, because on one hand you have people who now have gold to spend on in game shinies so things sell a bit faster, while on a flip side, you have people more motivated to farm and sell, becasue they would like to have those shinies from cash shop and as such - need gold to convert into tokens and bnet balance.
but is this actualy pay to win? no. not really. its possible to make gold just fine without ever trading crowns for gold. its possible to just get through the content on your own. buying gold for crowns doesn't actualy improve your rng at all, so when farming for bop sets you have exact same chances as someone who is carrying you through, or just farming old fashioned way. there is no actual exclusive better then in game gear in crown shop, and consumables are.. eh.. the only consumable that is ok, are repair kits and i'm personaly sitting on over a thousand of those, just from doing crafting dailies. they are not exactly expensive on guild traders either, or you could just repair the old fashioned way, at the vendor.
or is my ability to trade someone gold to be gifted some crown store exclusive furnishings - pay to win now??? GASP.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***1 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ArvenAldmeri wrote: »First of, its not pay to win. Second, its against the TOS.
Gina already said it wasn't against the ToS to sell crown items for in game gold, and yes it is p2w
How is it pay to win? what exactly do you win?
You can obtain the amount of gold most people obtain in months to years in a matter of minutes to hours, and then in turn you can use that to create a monopoly on guild vendors in one whole zone to block out anyone trying to bid on them from using in game time
and what exactly does this get you? its not like there is one zone with traders and no other place. people will just move on. do you have enough stuff to list on those traders? or are you just doing it to lock people out? why? what exactly does that accomplish. what exactly do you WIN by it? do you make your gold back at all, or are you just spending real life money on spite?dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***7 -
WaltherCarraway✭✭✭✭✭WaltherCarraway wrote: »I didn't pay 50 bucks to the game or group members get my Master Inferno Staff.
But you could, actually. Paid (for gold) carries for Trials and even dungeon achievements are a thing. So now that also means cash will likely happen.
I'm fine with gold carries because that fits in with the player economy, but not cash carries. I think it's lame that loophole now exists.
I agree the stuff you mentioned exists but oh please...Edited by WaltherCarraway on June 9, 2018 12:59PMBack from my last hiatus. 2021 a new start.1 -
Universe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The funny part is that probably over 50% of all who claimed that crown store gifts for in-game gold is not P2W, are going to take advantage of that themselves
It makes sense, why would you admit that it is P2W and risk it being removed from the options ?Getting lots of virtual currency in a game is still not winning.. Being fake rich is not winning..
oh, you would be surprised
As someone who is super rich in-game, I know how it can help my in-game activities, from buying gear, paying players for services, bidding on guild traders and so on.
Now imagine hundreds or even thousands of players who get to same huge amount of gold or even exceeds it in a matter of few hours to few days.
The game's economy will suffer greatly from this.
For example: bids on traders will be 2x-3x+ the current gold amount.
If the guild leaders won't join the party of buying gold(through the crown store gifting), they will be unable to compete with guilds which utilize this method.
I'm very disappointed, @ZOS_GinaBruno I hope that you will change your mind about this and implement limitations to crown store gifting.
Some videos I recorded for fun: Main character:
PC EU main: Universe - AD magicka Sorcerer, Former Emperor, Grand Overlord, The Merciless, Trial Bosses Solo Champion
Top alts: Genius(stamina/sagicka Dragonknight) The Force(stamina Nightblade) and other chars.
PC NA main: The Magic - AD magicka Sorcerer
Started playing ESO in beta & early access
User_ID: Daedric_Prince2 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The funny part is that probably over 50% of all who claimed that crown store gifts for in-game gold is not P2W, are going to take advantage of that themselves
It makes sense, why would you admit that it is P2W and risk it being removed from the options ?Getting lots of virtual currency in a game is still not winning.. Being fake rich is not winning..
oh, you would be surprised
As someone who is super rich in-game, I know how it can help my in-game activities, from buying gear, paying players for services, bidding on guild traders and so on.
Now imagine hundreds or even thousands of players who get to same huge amount of gold or even exceeds it in a matter of few hours to few days.
The game's economy will suffer greatly from this.
For example: bids on traders will be 2x-3x+ the current gold amount.
If the guild leaders won't join the party of buying gold(through the crown store gifting), they will be unable to compete with guilds which utilize this method.
I'm very disappointed, @ZOS_GinaBruno I hope that you will change your mind about this and implement limitations to crown store gifting.
Exactly they just don't want to admit that they're wrong and P2w infact does have several meanings to the player base0 -
ZOS_JesCadminGreetings, we've removed several comments for real world politics discussion and baiting. This is a reminder to read through our forum rules if you haven't already, to make sure your future posts adhere to them. Thank you for your understanding.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site1 -
DanteYoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ArvenAldmeri wrote: »First of, its not pay to win. Second, its against the TOS.
Gina already said it wasn't against the ToS to sell crown items for in game gold, and yes it is p2w
How is it pay to win? what exactly do you win?
You can obtain the amount of gold most people obtain in months to years in a matter of minutes to hours, and then in turn you can use that to create a monopoly on guild vendors in one whole zone to block out anyone trying to bid on them from using in game time
You are still not winning though.. You are being an *** to others maybe, but not actually winning anything..The funny part is that probably over 50% of all who claimed that crown store gifts for in-game gold is not P2W, are going to take advantage of that themselves
It makes sense, why would you admit that it is P2W and risk it being removed from the options ?Getting lots of virtual currency in a game is still not winning.. Being fake rich is not winning..
oh, you would be surprised
As someone who is super rich in-game, I know how it can help my in-game activities, from buying gear, paying players for services, bidding on guild traders and so on.
Now imagine hundreds or even thousands of players who get to same huge amount of gold or even exceeds it in a matter of few hours to few days.
The game's economy will suffer greatly from this.
For example: bids on traders will be 2x-3x+ the current gold amount.
If the guild leaders won't join the party of buying gold(through the crown store gifting), they will be unable to compete with guilds which utilize this method.
I'm very disappointed, @ZOS_GinaBruno I hope that you will change your mind about this and implement limitations to crown store gifting.
All that is nice and a bonus but its not actually winning anything..Edited by DanteYoda on June 9, 2018 1:22PM3 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ArvenAldmeri wrote: »First of, its not pay to win. Second, its against the TOS.
Gina already said it wasn't against the ToS to sell crown items for in game gold, and yes it is p2w
How is it pay to win? what exactly do you win?
You can obtain the amount of gold most people obtain in months to years in a matter of minutes to hours, and then in turn you can use that to create a monopoly on guild vendors in one whole zone to block out anyone trying to bid on them from using in game time
You are still not winning though.. You are being an *** to others maybe, but not actually winning anything..
P2w has multiple meanings to the player base, it doesn't always revolve around pvp and having the best gear how would you feel if you had spent 2 years to be able to finally buy the house you wanted but then someone strolled along and within hours of being new to the game already purchases it right off the bat, you really wanted those wasted years ?Edited by Cpt_Teemo on June 9, 2018 1:22PM0 -
xilfxlegion✭✭✭✭✭i dont know why everyone is arguing with op. this game is clearly pay to win.
it is a known fact that people with dro mathra senche mounts have higher weapon and spell power and it also adds the intimidation and jealousy factor which we all know lowers everyone else's spell penetration.
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DanteYoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I haven't gifted anything and probably wont as gifting for in game money to me is actually paying to lose if anything..
I gift someone a 5000 crown item and they pay me 5000 000 gold.. i've lost real money for fake in game virtual currency..
That by definition is pay to lose...6 -
witchdoctor✭✭✭✭✭
✭P2w has multiple meanings to the player base, it doesn't always revolve around pvp and having the best gear how would you feel if you had spent 2 years to be able to finally buy the house you wanted but then someone strolled along and within hours of being new to the game already purchases it right off the bat, you really wanted those wasted years ?
*That's* what you've come up with? To defend your claim this is P2W?
Someone buys a virtual home faster than you?5 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ArvenAldmeri wrote: »First of, its not pay to win. Second, its against the TOS.
Gina already said it wasn't against the ToS to sell crown items for in game gold, and yes it is p2w
How is it pay to win? what exactly do you win?
You can obtain the amount of gold most people obtain in months to years in a matter of minutes to hours, and then in turn you can use that to create a monopoly on guild vendors in one whole zone to block out anyone trying to bid on them from using in game time
You are still not winning though.. You are being an *** to others maybe, but not actually winning anything..
P2w has multiple meanings to the player base, it doesn't always revolve around pvp and having the best gear how would you feel if you had spent 2 years to be able to finally buy the house you wanted but then someone strolled along and within hours of being new to the game already purchases it right off the bat, you really wanted those wasted years ?
honestly? i wouldn't give a damn. becasue people ALREADY DO THAT. every single house in this game other then freebie inn rooms - has a crown cost attached. people have been buying houses much faster then me and decorating them with rare furniture that is hard to farm, but is sold for crowns - ever since housing went live. and I care about as much now as i did then. if they wish to spend their RL cash on tricking out a virtual house? more power to them, its their choice and their perrogative. it makes them happy and doesn;t actualy hurt me any. i decorate at my pace, they decorate at their pace.
and before you say "this is why some recipes are hard to find" i reiterate - THIS WAS ALREADY A THING BEFORE CROWN GIFTING.
and yes. there is a good chance I may take advantage of a system. but only with people I know because if you thought CoD was easy to scam... wait until you see this. and i'm pretty sure i saw ZoS say - trade at your own risk, as in if you send someone a gift, but they don't send you gold in return? they will not step in.
and again, please answer me... what exactly is the point to monopolize traders in a single area? unless your prices are good, unless you have a good selection of items? guess what? PEOPLE WILL JUST MOVE ON AND SHOP ELSEWHERE. all you did was spend a ton of gold/cash to what... spite a few guilds for couple of weeks? i know for a fact that people who shop at traders often - actualy have favorite kiosks they shop at. and if said kiosk moves? they don't stick to old area, they just go where their favorite kiosk is. so... what are you accomplishing by stealing some traders for a few weeks exactly? unless there is a long plan to turn them into profitable kiosks? its POINTLESS and wins you NOTHING.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***7 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭witchdoctor wrote: »P2w has multiple meanings to the player base, it doesn't always revolve around pvp and having the best gear how would you feel if you had spent 2 years to be able to finally buy the house you wanted but then someone strolled along and within hours of being new to the game already purchases it right off the bat, you really wanted those wasted years ?
*That's* what you've come up with? To defend your claim this is P2W?
Someone buys a virtual home faster than you?
I just used it an example for those that actually played the game and spent time obtaining what they have compared to someone that's literally started a day ago and already have accomplished all that you had during the past 3 years0 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭REALLY?
YOU CAN GET IN GAME THINGS LIKE GOLD WITH MONEY?
THIS ENTIRELY NEW NEVER DONE BEFORE NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT BEFORE NEVER HAPPENED UNTIL TODAY THING HAS TO BE REPORTED ON!
GO GET'EM!1 -
Olen_Mikko✭✭✭✭✭
✭I cringe everytime when people don't know what p2w really is. No, this game is no way near p2w.
Pay for advance at maximum.
P2w would be buying better than legendary stuff, only from crown store.
Wake upNB enthusiastic:- Woodhippie stamblade - DW hard-hitter / PvE
- Know-it-all elf Magblade - Healer / PvE & PvP
- Hate-them-all elf Magblade - Destrostaff AoE monster / PvE
- Cyrodiil-Refugee stamblade - Stamina Tank / PvE
Go dominion or go home
Nightblade-Hipster. I played Nightblade before it was cool - from 1.5 onwards.3 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Olen_Mikko wrote: »I cringe everytime when people don't know what p2w really is. No, this game is no way near p2w.
Pay for advance at maximum.
P2w would be buying better than legendary stuff, only from crown store.
Wake up
P2w has different meanings to different people, some consider P2w that allows anything you spend irl $ on to a in game cash conversion p2w as well1 -
lordspyder✭✭✭✭✭Olen_Mikko wrote: »I cringe everytime when people don't know what p2w really is. No, this game is no way near p2w.
Pay for advance at maximum.
P2w would be buying better than legendary stuff, only from crown store.
Wake up
P2w has different meanings to different people, some consider P2w that allows anything you spend irl $ on to a in game cash conversion p2w as well
But you meaning has now included every MMO that exists, so there is no such thing as a non P2W MMO anymore according to these forums3 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭lordspyder wrote: »Olen_Mikko wrote: »I cringe everytime when people don't know what p2w really is. No, this game is no way near p2w.
Pay for advance at maximum.
P2w would be buying better than legendary stuff, only from crown store.
Wake up
P2w has different meanings to different people, some consider P2w that allows anything you spend irl $ on to a in game cash conversion p2w as well
But you meaning has now included every MMO that exists, so there is no such thing as a non P2W MMO anymore according to these forums
Exactly, anything with a irl $ to cash conversion is considered p2w too0 -
lordspyder✭✭✭✭✭lordspyder wrote: »Olen_Mikko wrote: »I cringe everytime when people don't know what p2w really is. No, this game is no way near p2w.
Pay for advance at maximum.
P2w would be buying better than legendary stuff, only from crown store.
Wake up
P2w has different meanings to different people, some consider P2w that allows anything you spend irl $ on to a in game cash conversion p2w as well
But you meaning has now included every MMO that exists, so there is no such thing as a non P2W MMO anymore according to these forums
Exactly, anything with a irl $ to cash conversion is considered p2w too
That is Every MMO out right now2 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭lordspyder wrote: »lordspyder wrote: »Olen_Mikko wrote: »I cringe everytime when people don't know what p2w really is. No, this game is no way near p2w.
Pay for advance at maximum.
P2w would be buying better than legendary stuff, only from crown store.
Wake up
P2w has different meanings to different people, some consider P2w that allows anything you spend irl $ on to a in game cash conversion p2w as well
But you meaning has now included every MMO that exists, so there is no such thing as a non P2W MMO anymore according to these forums
Exactly, anything with a irl $ to cash conversion is considered p2w too
That is Every MMO out right now
Yes it is sadly1 -
lordspyder✭✭✭✭✭lordspyder wrote: »lordspyder wrote: »Olen_Mikko wrote: »I cringe everytime when people don't know what p2w really is. No, this game is no way near p2w.
Pay for advance at maximum.
P2w would be buying better than legendary stuff, only from crown store.
Wake up
P2w has different meanings to different people, some consider P2w that allows anything you spend irl $ on to a in game cash conversion p2w as well
But you meaning has now included every MMO that exists, so there is no such thing as a non P2W MMO anymore according to these forums
Exactly, anything with a irl $ to cash conversion is considered p2w too
That is Every MMO out right now
Yes it is sadly
Therefore you've taken the meaning out of P2W and we can just say ESO is an MMO because we've just agreed that those terms are one and the same3 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭lordspyder wrote: »lordspyder wrote: »lordspyder wrote: »Olen_Mikko wrote: »I cringe everytime when people don't know what p2w really is. No, this game is no way near p2w.
Pay for advance at maximum.
P2w would be buying better than legendary stuff, only from crown store.
Wake up
P2w has different meanings to different people, some consider P2w that allows anything you spend irl $ on to a in game cash conversion p2w as well
But you meaning has now included every MMO that exists, so there is no such thing as a non P2W MMO anymore according to these forums
Exactly, anything with a irl $ to cash conversion is considered p2w too
That is Every MMO out right now
Yes it is sadly
Therefore you've taken the meaning out of P2W and we can just say ESO is an MMO because we've just agreed that those terms are one and the same
Here's a good read about what Pay to win really means from a Reddit post
https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/3q8lh2/is_the_definition_of_pay_2_win_mechanics_expanding/0
This discussion has been closed.