Robust vs Infused on Jewlery

NewFordOrder · June 2018

So there seems to be a mass movement for, at least stam characters, to switch from robust to infused. How much of a difference is this going to make? Anyone have the numbers?

Exodium · June 2018

Hmmm not sure but I feel like on my redguard stam sorc I benefit more with robust cause of the stamina passives. Plus it's extra sustain. Could be wrong though but the difference is minuscule.

Raraaku · June 2018

Alcast touched on it a bit on his jewelry crafting video, he wasn't completely sure on the why. His thoughts were the change came from a combination of the new LA scaling and that stamina weapons have a higher base damage. DW & 2H at least, I believe Bow is the same scaling as staves.

jedtb16_ESO · June 2018

infused jewellery with a wep damage glyph?

looks like a good idea to me.

SammyFable · June 2018

Well most stam setups have fewer %amps for their resource pool than magickas, mainly lacking something like Inner Light giving 7% more resources. So the increased weapon damage coming from the infused trait will outweigh the stam bonus from robust ever so slightly. That being said, on a solo setting, the DPS difference is not that huge.
If you want, you can check out Gilliam's video about jewelry traits here, though as it's from early PTS there are a few outdated things. But nothing about robust vs infused should be affected.

Alpheu5 · June 2018

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

infused jewellery with a wep damage glyph?

looks like a good idea to me.

I tried the spell equivalent of this on the PTS. The difference between the bonus weapon damage compared to the addition of max stats is so negligible it's basically a non-factor unless you're stacking one particular stat for a specific reason (e.g. max spell power for mines/Pelinal's, max mag for wards/general casting purposes).

Own · June 2018

NewFordOrder wrote: »

So there seems to be a mass movement for, at least stam characters, to switch from robust to infused. How much of a difference is this going to make? Anyone have the numbers?

I did it on pts and live. It's very minimal, just to mix/max damage and heals..

Oh and it's only worth it if it's gold sooo.. it's that little

Lexxypwns · June 2018

Alpheu5 wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

infused jewellery with a wep damage glyph?

looks like a good idea to me.

I tried the spell equivalent of this on the PTS. The difference between the bonus weapon damage compared to the addition of max stats is so negligible it's basically a non-factor unless you're stacking one particular stat for a specific reason (e.g. max spell power for mines/Pelinal's, max mag for wards/general casting purposes).

On an Argonian Nightblade with a 5-2 setup and no mages guild passives activated arcane+spell damage is the exact same self buffed tooltip damage as infused+spell damage.

This leads me to believe that Infused+Weapon damage will generally outperform Robust+weapon damage because stamina specs usually don’t have greater % bonuses to max stam than the 7+8% available to my mageblade

Exodium · June 2018

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

infused jewellery with a wep damage glyph?

looks like a good idea to me.

I tried the spell equivalent of this on the PTS. The difference between the bonus weapon damage compared to the addition of max stats is so negligible it's basically a non-factor unless you're stacking one particular stat for a specific reason (e.g. max spell power for mines/Pelinal's, max mag for wards/general casting purposes).

On an Argonian Nightblade with a 5-2 setup and no mages guild passives activated arcane+spell damage is the exact same self buffed tooltip damage as infused+spell damage.

This leads me to believe that Infused+Weapon damage will generally outperform Robust+weapon damage because stamina specs usually don’t have greater % bonuses to max stam than the 7+8% available to my mageblade

On my stam sorc I've got the redguard passive 10% and the bound arnaments passive 5%. Plus I have a generally big stam pool from bone pirates and the Tower mundus, so maybe robust it my case is a bit better. Even if its still a fraction worse dps wise, the extra sustain makes it imo better to use.

Tannus15 · June 2018

SammyFable wrote: »

Well most stam setups have fewer %amps for their resource pool than magickas, mainly lacking something like Inner Light giving 7% more resources. So the increased weapon damage coming from the infused trait will outweigh the stam bonus from robust ever so slightly. That being said, on a solo setting, the DPS difference is not that huge.
If you want, you can check out Gilliam's video about jewelry traits here, though as it's from early PTS there are a few outdated things. But nothing about robust vs infused should be affected.

Yeah, this.

It has a lot to do with flawless dawn breaker & the fighters guild passives as well as the 12% increase for the DW passives. Basically going robust will probably be slightly better for your bow backbar, but infused weapon damage will be quite a bit stronger on your DW & flawless & trap front bar.

I'd be interested to see if DW swords is worthwhile with a full infused weapon damage setup.

Exodium wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

infused jewellery with a wep damage glyph?

looks like a good idea to me.

I tried the spell equivalent of this on the PTS. The difference between the bonus weapon damage compared to the addition of max stats is so negligible it's basically a non-factor unless you're stacking one particular stat for a specific reason (e.g. max spell power for mines/Pelinal's, max mag for wards/general casting purposes).

On an Argonian Nightblade with a 5-2 setup and no mages guild passives activated arcane+spell damage is the exact same self buffed tooltip damage as infused+spell damage.

This leads me to believe that Infused+Weapon damage will generally outperform Robust+weapon damage because stamina specs usually don’t have greater % bonuses to max stam than the 7+8% available to my mageblade

On my stam sorc I've got the redguard passive 10% and the bound arnaments passive 5%. Plus I have a generally big stam pool from bone pirates and the Tower mundus, so maybe robust it my case is a bit better. Even if its still a fraction worse dps wise, the extra sustain makes it imo better to use.

having a large stamina pool won't affect how much stamina you get from robust. I think redguard stam sorc is probably the strongest setup for robust available, but I don't know from testing yet if it swings one way or the other.
I can tell you from testing that warrior will give you more dps than tower.
There is no benefit for having very large stam pools apart from the raw damage increase, especially if you're running dubious & bone pirate on a redguard which should give you something like 2k stam regen anyway.

Facefister · June 2018

You play a race and a class which doesn't give you any +x% resource, go infused, else the difference is too small for 50 transmutation stones.

Vaoh · June 2018

The general idea is that Magicka DDs stick to Arcane (they have a lot of %Magicka amps), and Stamina DDs switch to Infused (they have a lot of %Weapon Dmg Amps).

Will it be bad if a Stam DD stays with Robust? The answer is no. The difference in DPS is not big at all, and Robust will even make sustain easier.

It’s also recommended (based on class) to use 1x Bloodthirsty as well, though the more players in group use it, the more the effectiveness decreases (since execute ends sooner, diminishing your benefit).

ArchMikem · June 2018

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

infused jewellery with a wep damage glyph?

looks like a good idea to me.

Youre losing like 2,700 stamina though.

Lexxypwns · June 2018

Exodium wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

infused jewellery with a wep damage glyph?

looks like a good idea to me.

I tried the spell equivalent of this on the PTS. The difference between the bonus weapon damage compared to the addition of max stats is so negligible it's basically a non-factor unless you're stacking one particular stat for a specific reason (e.g. max spell power for mines/Pelinal's, max mag for wards/general casting purposes).

On an Argonian Nightblade with a 5-2 setup and no mages guild passives activated arcane+spell damage is the exact same self buffed tooltip damage as infused+spell damage.

This leads me to believe that Infused+Weapon damage will generally outperform Robust+weapon damage because stamina specs usually don’t have greater % bonuses to max stam than the 7+8% available to my mageblade

On my stam sorc I've got the redguard passive 10% and the bound arnaments passive 5%. Plus I have a generally big stam pool from bone pirates and the Tower mundus, so maybe robust it my case is a bit better. Even if its still a fraction worse dps wise, the extra sustain makes it imo better to use.

See, even with all your stam investment, you’re right at the breaking point, before we factor in medium armor 12% or FG passives. That should push infused+weapon damage to be marginally better. But it comes with two caveats, first is it worth it for you to trait change for the marginal gain and does reducing your resource pool lower sustain in a way that has a negative impact on your character.

I haven’t personally tested all the setups, but by the quick math I’m doing infused+weapon damage should outperform even on redguard sorc with bound armaments

reprosal · June 2018

I am not sure how the loss of 2700 stamina is killing your sustain though..

Strider__Roshin · June 2018

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

infused jewellery with a wep damage glyph?

looks like a good idea to me.

I tried the spell equivalent of this on the PTS. The difference between the bonus weapon damage compared to the addition of max stats is so negligible it's basically a non-factor unless you're stacking one particular stat for a specific reason (e.g. max spell power for mines/Pelinal's, max mag for wards/general casting purposes).

On an Argonian Nightblade with a 5-2 setup and no mages guild passives activated arcane+spell damage is the exact same self buffed tooltip damage as infused+spell damage.

This leads me to believe that Infused+Weapon damage will generally outperform Robust+weapon damage because stamina specs usually don’t have greater % bonuses to max stam than the 7+8% available to my mageblade

Going from robust to infused on my gold jewelry increased my tool tip of Surprise Attack by a whopping 40 points, and that was fully buffed with minor berserk. It's not worth the loss of sustain for any spec. Kind of disappointed to be honest.

Lexxypwns · June 2018

Daus wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

infused jewellery with a wep damage glyph?

looks like a good idea to me.

I tried the spell equivalent of this on the PTS. The difference between the bonus weapon damage compared to the addition of max stats is so negligible it's basically a non-factor unless you're stacking one particular stat for a specific reason (e.g. max spell power for mines/Pelinal's, max mag for wards/general casting purposes).

On an Argonian Nightblade with a 5-2 setup and no mages guild passives activated arcane+spell damage is the exact same self buffed tooltip damage as infused+spell damage.

This leads me to believe that Infused+Weapon damage will generally outperform Robust+weapon damage because stamina specs usually don’t have greater % bonuses to max stam than the 7+8% available to my mageblade

Going from robust to infused on my gold jewelry increased my tool tip of Surprise Attack by a whopping 40 points, and that was fully buffed with minor berserk. It's not worth the loss of sustain for any spec. Kind of disappointed to be honest.

I get your point, however I’d say that if you can sustain perfectly with infused+damage then there’s no reason not to use it unless 50 transmute crystals is too much expense.

Consider that other specs get higher weapon damage % based modifiers than Nightblade as well. Maybe you’d get 60 extra tooltip damage on crushing weapon on a sDK with major+minor brutality and evil hunter slotted(not a common setup, but not unheard of).

I know it’s a marginal increase but if you’re trying to get every bit of damage and healing possible then idk why you wouldn’t just change as long as the lower pool doesn’t compromise your sustain.

For example, I only run 32k magika on my mageblade and that’s 100% ok for me sustain wise because it lets me hit 3.5k spell damage with infused glyphs and still get adequate damage. It also helps that healing ward scales on spell damage but not max magika. Yes I know that’s a magika example, but I don’t play stamina as much so I don’t have as solid anecdote using a stam spec

Lord_Ninka · June 2018

On purple jewelry it's 50% of 174 weapon damage instead of the usual robust bonus. 1 wpn dmg is worth 10.5 stamina when calculating damage and healing. Oh, and there's a 20% bonus to your max stamina if you have 300 or more cp, I don't think that's mentioned anywhere in-game or in the help either. Other modifiers should be obvious.

@NewFordOrder , I hope that helps. If not then I need a little help understanding exactly what numbers (or calculation/formula for that matter) you are asking for.

Enslaved · June 2018

Didnt really check it out yet. On the other hand, several health jewelry was made robust and I llove it iin PvP

Strider__Roshin · June 2018

Lord_Ninka wrote: »

On purple jewelry it's 50% of 174 weapon damage instead of the usual robust bonus. 1 wpn dmg is worth 10.5 stamina when calculating damage and healing. Oh, and there's a 20% bonus to your max stamina if you have 300 or more cp, I don't think that's mentioned anywhere in-game or in the help either. Other modifiers should be obvious.

@NewFordOrder , I hope that helps. If not then I need a little help understanding exactly what numbers (or calculation/formula for that matter) you are asking for.

You know, I think you may have indirectly made a good point. The max stam modifier is with CP 300+ which means that infused may actually be noticeably stronger in non-CP..

Lord_Ninka · June 2018

Daus wrote: »

Lord_Ninka wrote: »

On purple jewelry it's 50% of 174 weapon damage instead of the usual robust bonus. 1 wpn dmg is worth 10.5 stamina when calculating damage and healing. Oh, and there's a 20% bonus to your max stamina if you have 300 or more cp, I don't think that's mentioned anywhere in-game or in the help either. Other modifiers should be obvious.

@NewFordOrder , I hope that helps. If not then I need a little help understanding exactly what numbers (or calculation/formula for that matter) you are asking for.

You know, I think you may have indirectly made a good point. The max stam modifier is with CP 300+ which means that infused may actually be noticeably stronger in non-CP..

Yeah, I'm transmuting my wpn dmg enchanted battlegrounds gear first for that reason. For medium armor builds.

The higher your weapon damage modifier, the better is infused too. Werewolf, fighters guild skills (flawless dawnbreaker not least) and medium armor, and minor/major brutality are things that go well with infused wpn dmg enchanted jewelry, while robust is best with cp, max stamina racial passives (and that sorcerer skill, right? Bound armaments i think). Undaunted Mettle, too, of course.

Have I missed anything? I usually have.

Lexxypwns · June 2018

Daus wrote: »

Lord_Ninka wrote: »

On purple jewelry it's 50% of 174 weapon damage instead of the usual robust bonus. 1 wpn dmg is worth 10.5 stamina when calculating damage and healing. Oh, and there's a 20% bonus to your max stamina if you have 300 or more cp, I don't think that's mentioned anywhere in-game or in the help either. Other modifiers should be obvious.

@NewFordOrder , I hope that helps. If not then I need a little help understanding exactly what numbers (or calculation/formula for that matter) you are asking for.

You know, I think you may have indirectly made a good point. The max stam modifier is with CP 300+ which means that infused may actually be noticeably stronger in non-CP..

Oh, most certainly. But in no-CP you also have a stronger argument on the sustain side.

Your NB is a wood elf or redguard? The bonus damage on infused would be higher on khajiit or Orc then?

Strider__Roshin · June 2018

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Lord_Ninka wrote: »

On purple jewelry it's 50% of 174 weapon damage instead of the usual robust bonus. 1 wpn dmg is worth 10.5 stamina when calculating damage and healing. Oh, and there's a 20% bonus to your max stamina if you have 300 or more cp, I don't think that's mentioned anywhere in-game or in the help either. Other modifiers should be obvious.

@NewFordOrder , I hope that helps. If not then I need a little help understanding exactly what numbers (or calculation/formula for that matter) you are asking for.

You know, I think you may have indirectly made a good point. The max stam modifier is with CP 300+ which means that infused may actually be noticeably stronger in non-CP..

Oh, most certainly. But in no-CP you also have a stronger argument on the sustain side.

Your NB is a wood elf or redguard? The bonus damage on infused would be higher on khajiit or Orc then?

Lol it's a Nord. So the same rules apply as the Orc's multiplier.

NewFordOrder · June 2018

What about an imperial stamdk?

Strider__Roshin · June 2018

NewFordOrder wrote: »

What about an imperial stamdk?

I'd say anything with a 10% max stam multiplier as a racial passive should stick with Robust. Also does helping hands still scale off of max stat?

Lord_Ninka · June 2018

With cp and all undaunted passives, three armor types, the robust trait on a purple piece of jewelry would give be 840*1,36 = 1142 stamina from robust

With at least five pieces of medium armor and minor and major brutality up and no fighters guild skills slotted the infused trait on a purple piece of jewelry with a gold wpn dmg enchantment would give you 174*0,50*1,37 = 119 wpn dmg ~ 1251 stamina

So as an imperial you need extra modifiers to wpn dmg from fighters guild or being a werewolf before switching to infused makes a real positive difference.

D0PAMINE · June 2018

I think in a battlegrounds environment that Infused will thrive, where you'll be a bit more bursty.