inf.toniceb17_ESO wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

snip

Yes it's oblivion damage. It's also very small amount of oblivion damage. Just 850 dmg/sec. Other dots have 2-3 times bigger numbers in their tooltips

That can be mitigated before having to resort to healing.

inf.toniceb17_ESO wrote: »

and after mitigation their dmg/sec more or less equal to Sload if not bigger in some cases.

Untrue, unless you're only considering Armor (Physical Resistance/Spell Resistance). Damage Reduction also plays a role (Nova, Light's champion, Veil of Blades, Standard), Maim plays a role (Wizard's Riposte, Shadow, Mass Hysteria, Heroic Slash)...

inf.toniceb17_ESO wrote: »

Yes you can shield from them but it only reinforces my opinion that Sload isn't broken. It's about time we get some tool against shield-stacking players that doesn't make you useless in every other encounter like shield-breaker does.

Shield stacking is only really viable for magsorcs, it makes complete sense to have a very specific setup to counter a very specific build. What it doesn't make sense is to have a very specific build countered by a setup that is effective against everything.

That's a crutch.

inf.toniceb17_ESO wrote: »

As for defiles they are equally effective in every case. You can't outheal anything if you are defiled, not just Sload.

Shields are not affected by defile, therefore there's counter play. You can't outheal, but you can shield, or use damage reduction to mitigate the damage, or apply maim to reduce the damage done. Not the case with Oblivion damage.

inf.toniceb17_ESO wrote: »

And i wouldn't say that sheer vemnom is for snipeblades. It can be procced by both bow and 2h abilities and exectute range starts at 50% which reallty isn't hard to get to with a proper burst unless again you are stacking shileds.

The only execute that starts at 50% is Executioner/Reverse Slice, and you don't use it at 50% because it's potato damage. 30% - 25% is more realistic, in line with other executes.

Said that, Sheer Venom does 8.5k over 6 seconds, of poison damage (argonians are laughing at you) that can be mitigated by damage resistance and damage reductions, and shields, and can't crit.

I can't remember the last time I've been killed by Sheer Venom, hell, I can't remember the last time I've been hit by Sheer Venom. Any other set is more efficient that Sheer Venom, but, hey, I may be wrong about that.

You know what, put Sheer Venom in my pile of "Might as well just trash" with Caalurion and Doylemish.

inf.toniceb17_ESO wrote: »

And if you get multiple Sload procs on you that means you are fighting more than one person. I don't see why you should live in that scenario. It's like complainig that pistols are OP in CS cause you instantly die when several people shoot you. I don't really defend Sload per se here but i just don't see how is it any worse than every other proc set out there. I it feels that ppl are just get triggered but "oblivion damage" words and fail to see much-much bigger problem with ESO's PvP.

Here's the crux of the matter.

If you're fighting 6 skilled player, players with good builds, that know what they're doing... scratch that, if you're fighting 3 of such players, or even 2v1, sure, I agree with you completely.

It goes like this: If you're fighting a player of equal skill, build counts. If you're fighting a player with skill and build similar to yours, luck decides. If another player enters, you're most likely dead.

The only reason you can win while outnumbered is because you're fighting people less skilled than you, whose deficiencies you can exploit (los, single out the squishiest, etc).

In that scenario, you can definitely 6v1. I've done it, many people did it, it's quite easy, actually. There are a lot of players that just don't know what they are doing.

In that scenario skill matters. Personal skill, player skill, proficiency at playing the game, not "FotM build", but actually knowing how to use the game mechanics at your advantage. That's not exploiting, that's playing the game skillfully. If you don't have line of sight you can't use single target skills, that's not an exploit, it's how the game works.

That is not only possible, but it's desirable. You get better at the game, you are rewarded with a better outcome.

Better players get better results. Better artisans do better jobs. Better artists do create better art.

Enters Sload.

Nvm, skill doesn't matter anymore, now your ONLY counter is healing, and healing can be prevented. All they need to do is keep pounding until sload procs.

Not to mention the fact that skilled players, players that already didn't need the crutch, can exploit the hell out of it to absolutely dominate small scale (i.e. BGs).

GGWP.

Hope this clarifies.
Have a nice day.

PS: Good luck playing in a Cyro campaign where you have one poplocked alliance and an average of 1 - 2 bars for the other two. It was bad before, now it's not even worth it anymore, unless you're playing turtles.

Sergykid wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Shield stacking is only really viable for magsorcs, it makes complete sense to have a very specific setup to counter a very specific build. What it doesn't make sense is to have a very specific build countered by a setup that is effective against everything.

and how is this fair in any way? if i must use a very specific build to counter a very specific build, i am put in a difficult situation because i will be useful only against shield stackers. While the shield stacker, his build is useful against anything else, it's a defense viable for anything (except sloads).

Or you could just kill the Sorc the traditional way with timed burst, CC, and situational awareness.

Sergykid wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Shield stacking is only really viable for magsorcs, it makes complete sense to have a very specific setup to counter a very specific build. What it doesn't make sense is to have a very specific build countered by a setup that is effective against everything.

and how is this fair in any way? if i must use a very specific build to counter a very specific build, i am put in a difficult situation because i will be useful only against shield stackers. While the shield stacker, his build is useful against anything else, it's a defense viable for anything (except sloads).

Ok, let me understand your reasoning.

You're fighting a magsorc, that is set up to troll you until you run out of stamina, and easily kill you with average damage (because you need to build for recovery to be able to shield stack), is to introduce a set that is effective against anything, with no counter play except out healing the damage, that, incidentally, is also effective against that specific magsorc build for recovery.

Yeah, that works, I guess.

The magsorc sacrifices their build to be able to shield stack and defend against everything (but not kill everything), while you're comfortably sitting there with your 1-button-win build.

Yeah, that works, I guess.

Good talk.

Mayrael wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

King_Thelon wrote: »

inf.toniceb17_ESO wrote: »

it feels that ppl are just get triggered but "oblivion damage" words and fail to see much-much bigger problem with ESO's PvP.

The much much bigger problem is catering the game to people who think like this:

inf.toniceb17_ESO wrote: »

if you get multiple Sload procs on you that means you are fighting more than one person. I don't see why you should live in that scenario.

"If you are fighting multiple people, you should have zero chance of winning"

^ This is the mentality of every mindless pug running around getting farmed. They stand barely any chance when they have greater numbers, they certainly stand no chance outnumbered, so why should better players?

Sload is 100% a set catered to this mentality. The players flock to this set because it's an easy out, it's overly powerful especially for the way they play. But they will act like it's a weak set, they will act like Viper is stronger despite Viper being subject to proper mitigation.

They will literally tell the very people that farm them to L2P, anything to protect their crutch. Anyone defending how Sload's currently operates has zero clue about balance or healthy PvP, they just want to preserve their latest and greatest crutch.

False. We're not defending sload, we just want to show you "pros" that we "noobs" have no issues with sload not because it so awesome to kill with this set but because we "noobs" know how to survive sload without any issues. If you're trying to tell me that additional 0,8k DPS is a difference between death and life for you, maybe you're not so "pro".

We're here because there are far more broken things, but like every patch, lemmings forgot about real PvP issues focusing on mediocre set just because it's hot topic now.

Since summerset launch I didn't died because of this set even once, 2-3k death recaps at best so yeah I must be a noob. Sload nerf won't change anything beside of source of your death. If you die because of sload, you will die because of my mount fart.

...and about balance and healthy PvP. Can we talk about overnerfed magplars? Very weak magdens? Non existent resource management on stamplar? OP shield stacking in 1v1 but underpowered when 1vX? Can we talk about server performance? About sets like shieldbreaker, zaan? About sets that are completely useless?

A previous post showed how 800 dps is a lot in a PvP environment, and I can confirm. My combat metrics recaps show that Sload deals 22% of the total damage I deal. And I am firing Assassin's wills every 5 light attacks, without missing one weaving. Mostly because, as everyone else said, a large portion of the damage I can deal can be blocked, dodged or elsewise mitigated. I can't crit through shields and stuff. BUT, that 800 damage that is constantly up thanks to my dots (Crippling Grasp, damage poisons, burning) is something you cannot avoid and it's directly subtracted from your healing capacity. As soon as I land a Soul Harvest, people are doomed.

You can't say this is exactly balanced.

[edit: nevermind]

mojomood wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Do you mean the people posting screenshots with Sload's as the killer, or the people using Sload's and the actual killscreens you keep getting?

Either way, Sload's isn't a huge deal. Invest in some self-healing, or a purge, and be smart about how you engage the user.

If I have to change my approach to combat a certain playstyle or archetype, that's more engaging than facerolling everyone with similar builds.

>Change your build because one set
>"be smart about engaging"

Well which one is it?

The only change required for your build is some self-healing capacity. I said change your approach, which includes being smart about engaging your target.

The self heal capacity that is instantly negated by Defiled stacking builds that can be ran in tandem. Full on tank builds running enfeebling sets are able to casually stroll in combat and kill players who have sets build purely for damage or healing, negating a huge semblance of balance from the game.

Not to mention that multiple people wearing the set makes out healing impossible. I've already changed my build and can easily manage one person in Sload's. But more than 3 is an instant death sentence. No other set in the game can boast that raw power to simply win by slotting and out numbering your opponent.

Create magsorc and try to fight someone using shieldbreaker, then we can have a chat.

[Edited for removed content]

Outside of shieldbreaker, what hard counters a streaky, shield-stacking magsorc? Everything needs a hard counter. Else there is no balance.

Nope, nothing needs a hardcounter that's what balance is about.
Play Rock, paper scissors if you want to have hardcounters.
Hardcounters directly contradict skillbased gameplay

Sergykid wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Shield stacking is only really viable for magsorcs, it makes complete sense to have a very specific setup to counter a very specific build. What it doesn't make sense is to have a very specific build countered by a setup that is effective against everything.

and how is this fair in any way? if i must use a very specific build to counter a very specific build, i am put in a difficult situation because i will be useful only against shield stackers. While the shield stacker, his build is useful against anything else, it's a defense viable for anything (except sloads).

Or you could just kill the Sorc the traditional way with timed burst, CC, and situational awareness.

stop lying to yourself, you and everyone else who sustain this idea. An at least average sorc will not let himself without the shield up and streaking away right after breaking free. A "timed burst" is telegraphed so the sorc will be able to prepare. And you don't have to build for big shields, you just raise those attributes to the skies, and then you have both high absorb amound and high damage.

If the Sorc streaks away - aka disengage - he acknowledges he couldn’t win the fight. I just find it odd that it’s totally ok for other classes to disengage (hint: cloak) but not for Sorcs.

Anyway, it’s of course possible to kill a decent Sorc without relying on cheese. Proof: Cyrodiil since 2014.

mojomood wrote: »

You can't heal or purge an entire zergs anyway. Sloads is strongest when stacked. That takes coordination. Two equal sized zergs fighting and not focusing means most players will have a stack of sloads. The ability to stack sloads is only thing that needs to change about sloads, but sloads is not the only one that needs that change. Zergs stack destro ultimates. Make ultimates of the same morph unstackable too.

Oh, if only. You'd think they would have learned their lesson during the ridiculous proxy det zerg days. Apparently not. Over and over again, the same issues in PvP. It would be amusing were it not so frustrating.

mojomood wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

mojomood wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Do you mean the people posting screenshots with Sload's as the killer, or the people using Sload's and the actual killscreens you keep getting?

Either way, Sload's isn't a huge deal. Invest in some self-healing, or a purge, and be smart about how you engage the user.

If I have to change my approach to combat a certain playstyle or archetype, that's more engaging than facerolling everyone with similar builds.

>Change your build because one set
>"be smart about engaging"

Well which one is it?

The only change required for your build is some self-healing capacity. I said change your approach, which includes being smart about engaging your target.

The self heal capacity that is instantly negated by Defiled stacking builds that can be ran in tandem. Full on tank builds running enfeebling sets are able to casually stroll in combat and kill players who have sets build purely for damage or healing, negating a huge semblance of balance from the game.

Not to mention that multiple people wearing the set makes out healing impossible. I've already changed my build and can easily manage one person in Sload's. But more than 3 is an instant death sentence. No other set in the game can boast that raw power to simply win by slotting and out numbering your opponent.

Create magsorc and try to fight someone using shieldbreaker, then we can have a chat.

[Edited for removed content]

Outside of shieldbreaker, what hard counters a streaky, shield-stacking magsorc? Everything needs a hard counter. Else there is no balance.

Nope, nothing needs a hardcounter that's what balance is about.
Play Rock, paper scissors if you want to have hardcounters.
Hardcounters directly contradict skillbased gameplay

According to your logic, everyone should have the same stats, builds, abilities, etc. Then just see who plays better. That may be about skill, but that is boring. No personalization, no strategy prior to engaging. If someone wants to troll magsorcs in shieldbreaker, fine. But they better avoid every stam player out there. Which is why it's a seldom played set.

I never ever said something like that because that's simply not true.
You can have balance without making everything the same.

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Do you mean the people posting screenshots with Sload's as the killer, or the people using Sload's and the actual killscreens you keep getting?

Either way, Sload's isn't a huge deal. Invest in some self-healing, or a purge, and be smart about how you engage the user.

If I have to change my approach to combat a certain playstyle or archetype, that's more engaging than facerolling everyone with similar builds.

>Change your build because one set
>"be smart about engaging"

Well which one is it?

The only change required for your build is some self-healing capacity. I said change your approach, which includes being smart about engaging your target.

The self heal capacity that is instantly negated by Defiled stacking builds that can be ran in tandem. Full on tank builds running enfeebling sets are able to casually stroll in combat and kill players who have sets build purely for damage or healing, negating a huge semblance of balance from the game.

Not to mention that multiple people wearing the set makes out healing impossible. I've already changed my build and can easily manage one person in Sload's. But more than 3 is an instant death sentence. No other set in the game can boast that raw power to simply win by slotting and out numbering your opponent.

[Edited for removed content]

I especially like this set because for friggen once in this game's history of all the imbalance and cancer , for once, one of those cancer mechanics is actually hurting the top dogs of PvP instead of the already weak ones.

So yeah, welcome to the mortals club. I've had to deal with literally every single bleed+defile user that thinks he/she's some hot s****, and I'm glad finally you people can taste the same imbalanced , dumb bullcrap , all thanks to this ridicilous set.

I once died to this set and only this set while fighting four players as it killed me through a 1k hps post defile, a 20k damage shield, major protection, minor protection, a tripot, and dodgeroll... am I missing a defense in my counterplay or should I just get gud a join a zerg... This set is designed to kill 1vX... can only really enjoy pvp at this point while grouped with a Templar

TequilaFire wrote: »

King_Thelon wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I especially like this set because for friggen once in this game's history of all the imbalance and cancer , for once, one of those cancer mechanics is actually hurting the top dogs of PvP instead of the already weak ones.

You can easily spot bad players these days because they support the idea that your armor should do damage for you. Oh, and just in case you missed it, here's a (non-exhaustive) list of "balancing" decisions that have directly targeted the good players so that the younglings like yourself don't get exposed so often:

- removal of dynamic ultimate generation
- "auto-targeting" of gap closers so they never miss
- adding snares to gap closers
- aoe caps
- adding stacking costs to streak and dodge roll
- shield duration nerf
- wings nerf
- PotL checking damage from all sources
- poisons
- proc sets
- earthgore

Now youngling, your time has come to list the buffs rich has given to the 1vX'ers over the last 4 years.

1vXers can cry me a river. They try to take a game not designed for 1 player to take on a group and and start crying if the group reverses it and it becomes Xv1. Sorry if your made up rules don't fly.

well said.
the problem with eso is overpowered Builds.
if 4 people are attacking someone, then that person should die.

OdinForge wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

King_Thelon wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I especially like this set because for friggen once in this game's history of all the imbalance and cancer , for once, one of those cancer mechanics is actually hurting the top dogs of PvP instead of the already weak ones.

You can easily spot bad players these days because they support the idea that your armor should do damage for you. Oh, and just in case you missed it, here's a (non-exhaustive) list of "balancing" decisions that have directly targeted the good players so that the younglings like yourself don't get exposed so often:

- removal of dynamic ultimate generation
- "auto-targeting" of gap closers so they never miss
- adding snares to gap closers
- aoe caps
- adding stacking costs to streak and dodge roll
- shield duration nerf
- wings nerf
- PotL checking damage from all sources
- poisons
- proc sets
- earthgore

Now youngling, your time has come to list the buffs rich has given to the 1vX'ers over the last 4 years.

1vXers can cry me a river. They try to take a game not designed for 1 player to take on a group and and start crying if the group reverses it and it becomes Xv1. Sorry if your made up rules don't fly.

It's not that 1vXers try to take the game designed around map objective based RvRvR, it's that the game has plenty of subpar players who believe Sloads is balanced and make 1vX possible.

What logical people want is extremely strong mechanics like unmitigated Oblivion damage to be more thoughtfully implemented. Sload by itself will not make just any bad in a weak build god, but combined with other sets and players using it make it way over the top.

Sload needs two changes to be made more "balanced" if you can call it that. The condition to proc the set is too generous as it can proc off any damage (even siege), it should be changed to something more restrictive (similar to how mechanical acuity was changed). The second change is that the set should not stack on itself, preventing groups of players running the set from cheesing people.

If you think you need Sload to deal with "overpowered builds" you have a lot to learn.

let me be very clear.
i do not wear sloads set, i think it is weak, and does almost no damage at all, especially when other sets worn are much more damage producing.

i think "overpowered Builds" most definitely are eso's problem because when i see 1 player go out and able to kill an entire zerg of 15 or more people.
i do not think that person is skilled, no, i think something is Broken in eso's PvP.

has nothing to do with an armor set.