Nerf Harness Magicka, at least change it so that it doesn't return magicka when Hardened Ward gets damaged. Other defense mechanics have an exponential stacking cost while the two button smashers will never run out of magicka if there is any source of magicka damage hitting them. This should have gotten nerfed 3 years ago.

I can solo resources in Cyrodiil using a magsorc with shield stacking but never a keep. Without the shields, magsorcs are paper & lucky to not die instantly.

I can solo resources "faster & more easily" with a stamsorc with "0" shield skills, I've even done a couple of keeps with 1 other person while using my stamsorc setup & usually only die when its 3vMe.

Proof is in the pudding!

P.S. I'd like to see the damage shield debuff in PvP removed & only allow 1 active shield skill effect in PvP areas. The debuff is one of the biggest reasons to stack damage shields.

Kind regards,

@SamboJ

Makes little difference. I still maintain you can't build around it.

Feanor wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Nerf Harness Magicka, at least change it so that it doesn't return magicka when Hardened Ward gets damaged. Other defense mechanics have an exponential stacking cost while the two button smashers will never run out of magicka if there is any source of magicka damage hitting them. This should have gotten nerfed 3 years ago.

That would be a nerf to any other mag spec other than Sorc though too and would make Dampen the far better morph.

It's about time harness magicka got nerfed. The mag return is too high. I only play magicka and it's annoying that all my abilities keep giving my opponent magicka. It's even more annoying because since I play solo I'm forced into using dampen on my magblade while every group magicka player is allowed to use harness. Also if I play sorc, mag sorc vs mag sorc fights are stupid. This is pretty much the only nerf I have every asked for

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Nerf Harness Magicka, at least change it so that it doesn't return magicka when Hardened Ward gets damaged. Other defense mechanics have an exponential stacking cost while the two button smashers will never run out of magicka if there is any source of magicka damage hitting them. This should have gotten nerfed 3 years ago.

That would be a nerf to any other mag spec other than Sorc though too and would make Dampen the far better morph.

Other classes can't stack it with Hardened Ward and get free ressources when Hardened Ward gets damaged...

When hardened gets damaged you don't get any resources back. You only get resources back when harness is damaged. That is why people stack harness over hardened not hardened over harness. Derp. Talking about balancing classes when you don't even know the mechanics and are making *** up

I think my favorite thing about trying to run 3 shields on a Sorc is when my healing ward ends up on another player. Nothing like needing that heal and wasting that magicka on someone else.

I also love when I have to go through a cycle of hardened ward and harness magicka repeatedly because a few attacks from a nightblade drains both shields. And nothing is better than doing those things and providing zero offensive pressure.

Shield stacking is only a viable mechanic on a Sorc if they are doing nothing else but that. A sorc that is shield stacking isn't a threat since that is all they can do while under pressure. It is no different than a block build, except in costs more in resources and you cannot reliable cast offensive skills while doing it. Oh, and you have zero defensiveness outside of shields, unlike a DK, and the moment you attempt to run or go on the offensive, shield stacking becomes a hindrance.

If you are having so much trouble dealing with a Sorc's shields, bait them with a fake burst, force them to shield up, and then bait them to go on the offensive. Once they are on the offensive, a quick burst combo should be enough to take one down.

This has been a mechanic for how many years? Sorcs have been nerfed into the ground, and yet, people still cannot be bothered to learn how to fight against them. It's probably because there are barely any players playing sorcs in Cyrodil anymore. The kill 20 Sorc's objective often takes longer than the warden one because there aren't any sorcs to kill.

1v1 totally agreed, even though players can physically out Damage shields or time burst accordingly. I've lost plenty of 1v1s to Good players. Still I understand the frustration for most average players (but are those players seriously killing the 27k+ health roll/block heal metas either? No)

But what exactly is the dilemma here?
1. Hardened and harness stacking?
2. Hardened and Healing Ward stacking?
3. Hardened, harness, and healing Ward stacking?
4. Harness and healing Ward stacking?

I'm going to assume 1 and 3 because Sorcs are always targeted and they are the only ones that can perform this stack.

1. Offers no healing and is directly countered by Oblivion damage. Which is in the rise recently.
3. That's 3 GCDs and what 10k magicka? Name another class that in a 1v1 using 3 global cooldowns towards healing, dodging, or block healing that doesn't recover in the same 3 GCDs. And within 3-5 seconds all of those shields expire. And 22k health in light armor is nothing to go through.

Lastly Shield stacking while not entirely unique as any class can do so with healing Ward and annulment, can be considered a magSorcs class defense. You take away stacking of hardened and annulment then magSorcs have to be supplemented with another class defense, because Dampen can be used by ANY class and is the same strength as Hardened Ward (Hardened Ward is easier to sustain, understood).

Past all this damage shields offer the worst defensive mitigation scaling as more opponents are added. A roll dodge prevents all dodge able abilities and CCs during that roll whether it's 1 player or 5 players. Block mitigates all damage done and CCs by players whether it's 1 player or 5 players. High Resistances mitigates all incoming damage, 40% of 1 player's 12k attack for 4800 reduction, 40% of 3 players 30k attack for 12000 reduction.

1, 14k damage shield blocks 14k worth of none mitigated damage. That's it. Whether 1 player or 3 players are attacking.

Minalan wrote: »

Lets stop pretending that in any fight, you’re dealing with a 30K stack every GCD. That’s not very smart or ingenuous, though that’s typical of the forum warriors here.

A shield can only cast a 10-12K or so defense PER GCD, which is damage that just about anyone can do with woven attacks and glyph/poison.

When a Sorc starts refreshing expired shields, you can actively and effectively prevent the stack by... just hitting him. Then the situation isn’t much different than chasing an lol dodge roller. Shoot miss! Etc..

If you really hate shield users, grab sloads. Everyone else is, and complaining about shield stacking in a sload meta is just extra special stupid on top of stupid.

did you really just say anyone can do 10-12k damage per GCD with poisons and Light attcks..... not every one is a magsorc w/overloads or magblade lmaooo are you kidding me... shields are massively OP

Minalan wrote: »

Imagine if, you could only run one heal at a time, HOTS wouldn’t stack, and you’ll miss a breath of life from a friend because your vigor is still ticking?

That’s what a shield stack nerf would look like to us.

yeah but our heals are OVER TIME and heal MUCH LESS damage than shields mitigate. That already makes shields the better defensive choice but they are also used by classes that fight at ranged (who thought giving ranged classes the better defence was a good idea... some real *** at ZOS). But wait theres more!!!!!! Shields effects are instant...... yea not OP at all..

Aside from all that they are 100% immune to crits and resistance debuffs.

Shields are overpowered. If you think shields are balanced and dont need a change, stop playing ur mag char and L2 do math.

Minalan wrote: »

Imagine if, you could only run one heal at a time, HOTS wouldn’t stack, and you’ll miss a breath of life from a friend because your vigor is still ticking?

That’s what a shield stack nerf would look like to us.

It's pointless to argue with them, they've been complaining about this since launch, and they will never stop until there's no defense left for the class.

They don't understand why players shield stack in the first place, let alone how to fix it. If we let them convert shields into a major/minor system (no matter how 'good' that sounds on paper) without overhauling many other abilities & passives, the class is completely gone.

Anyone saying differently has absolutely zero clue about how sorcs play.

When I look at Mag NB's HoTs, auto resistance shadow passive, minor protection, major evasion, minor maim + dot, I mean the list goes on & on but they're not complaining about any of this, but they're complaining about hardened & harness?

Something that expires in literally 6 seconds, needing 2 GCD's to cast and cannot be sustained against stamina builds?

I mean sure, but then you'll have 0 damage if all you do is spam shields that aren't even that large and you don't do any DPS cause you're spec'd for full sustain.

This is why ESO's PVP skill ceiling is lower and lower, players are just too lazy to L2P.

Swimguy wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Lets stop pretending that in any fight, you’re dealing with a 30K stack every GCD. That’s not very smart or ingenuous, though that’s typical of the forum warriors here.

A shield can only cast a 10-12K or so defense PER GCD, which is damage that just about anyone can do with woven attacks and glyph/poison.

When a Sorc starts refreshing expired shields, you can actively and effectively prevent the stack by... just hitting him. Then the situation isn’t much different than chasing an lol dodge roller. Shoot miss! Etc..

If you really hate shield users, grab sloads. Everyone else is, and complaining about shield stacking in a sload meta is just extra special stupid on top of stupid.

did you really just say anyone can do 10-12k damage per GCD with poisons and Light attcks..... not every one is a magsorc w/overloads or magblade lmaooo are you kidding me... shields are massively OP

Refer to:

Swimguy wrote: »

SamboJ wrote: »

I can solo resources in Cyrodiil using a magsorc with shield stacking but never a keep. Without the shields, magsorcs are paper & lucky to not die instantly.

I can solo resources "faster & more easily" with a stamsorc with "0" shield skills, I've even done a couple of keeps with 1 other person while using my stamsorc setup & usually only die when its 3vMe.

Proof is in the pudding!

P.S. I'd like to see the damage shield debuff in PvP removed & only allow 1 active shield skill effect in PvP areas. The debuff is one of the biggest reasons to stack damage shields.

Kind regards,

@SamboJ

then thats a skill issue... ive solod just about everything a magsorc can solo and keeps arent even that hard...

Except, add "build" next to the skill for your Sorc shield problem.

Swimguy wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Imagine if, you could only run one heal at a time, HOTS wouldn’t stack, and you’ll miss a breath of life from a friend because your vigor is still ticking?

That’s what a shield stack nerf would look like to us.

yeah but our heals are OVER TIME and heal MUCH LESS damage than shields mitigate. That already makes shields the better defensive choice but they are also used by classes that fight at ranged (who thought giving ranged classes the better defence was a good idea... some real *** at ZOS). But wait theres more!!!!!! Shields effects are instant...... yea not OP at all..

Aside from all that they are 100% immune to crits and resistance debuffs.

Shields are overpowered. If you think shields are balanced and dont need a change, stop playing ur mag char and L2 do math.

And this is clearly a L2P issue. Shields take full tooltip damage (after Battle Spirit) and no way a properly built builds cannot take the shields off easily. Minalan's point wasn't that HoT was better than shields. He was just illustrating the point of what would shield nerfs look like to Stamina and non-shielding Magicka builds.

One word: SLOADS

Swimguy wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Imagine if, you could only run one heal at a time, HOTS wouldn’t stack, and you’ll miss a breath of life from a friend because your vigor is still ticking?

That’s what a shield stack nerf would look like to us.

yeah but our heals are OVER TIME and heal MUCH LESS damage than shields mitigate. That already makes shields the better defensive choice but they are also used by classes that fight at ranged (who thought giving ranged classes the better defence was a good idea... some real *** at ZOS). But wait theres more!!!!!! Shields effects are instant...... yea not OP at all..

Aside from all that they are 100% immune to crits and resistance debuffs.

Shields are overpowered. If you think shields are balanced and dont need a change, stop playing ur mag char and L2 do math.

Shields are really not all that strong. All magicka builds beside sorc are better off dropping light armor for heavy and dropping shields completely. The reaason being is one shield is so weak. There are some stamina builds who will take away your whole shield and a large chunk of your health in 1GCD especially stamblades and stamplars with bleeds and potl. the only class shields are viable on is mag sorc because they have access to two shields. Now where shields are op is harness magicka vs other magicka builds. My magblade dueling build has a pretty big harness shield and I will never run out of magicka vs a magicka class. It's broken and needs to be changed.