Who's idea was it to drop newbies in Summerset?

Cambruin · June 2018

It has some of the absolute worst xp/hour ratio, making it a very bad idea for new players. There's not even as much as an explanation of where to go for those who wish to leave. Just ran to both harbors I saw, not a single ship taking me to Vvardenfell, Stros m'Kai, ... And what about the lore-perspective?! You're dropped in this highly off-limits region without any reason given and if a reason is given you'd need to look for it. I haven't found it, but honestly can't be *rsed neither as the region has no appeal to me whatsoever.

Why can't we start in one of the actual starting areas instead where xp is bountiful and new players get an actual sense of progression?

Sharee · June 2018

Somehow i don't think newbies care all that much about xp/hour ratio...

driosketch · June 2018

I would argue for new, actual new, players it's better slow. They need to learn the ABCs of combat mechanics before they start rushing off to level 50. When a player is ready to grind, they will know where to go, or will do the research.

Cambruin wrote: »

And what about the lore-perspective?! You're dropped in this highly off-limits region without any reason given

Welcome to Elder Scrolls games. Especially from TES III: Morrowind, you start out a prisoner without any backstory. You are meant to fill that in yourself. Honestly, ESO is a bit better providing you context by comparison.

I will say, though, for experienced players choosing the start point for a new character should be an option.

Nestor · June 2018

Hmmm, i have not spent that much time is Summerset but i went from CP1123 to CP1126 (1,000,000 plus per point now) just doing geysers and a few Justciar dailies. I would say exp rates are just fine.

Also, almost every zone has an unlocked WS just use one on Summerset to get to them. As for Navigators, you sure there are no Anchor or Wagon Icons on the map? I have not looked myself because I use the unlocked wayshrines.

Elsonso · June 2018

driosketch wrote: »

I will say, though, for experienced players choosing the start point for a new character should be an option.

I would like that option, just like we can chose to skip it after the first character.

Cadbury · June 2018

Personally, I preferred they just kept the original Wailing Prison tutorial, with maybe having an option to do the Morrowind or Summerset tutorial on your next alt. But they want to show off the new area so new tutorial it is.

I hope this doesn't become a trend - i.e., Having a new tutorial with each new DLC while phasing out the older one.

MaleAmazon · June 2018

There *is* a story progression in ESO and imo they should have started new players the way they did, with directions to newbie island. Or for that matter, *on* newbie island, like I think it was originally. I dont really like the ESO start tbh, but it follows TES tradition to have your character be some kind of numbskull before they give you the controls (Skyrim's "yes I'll just let you chop off my head, no problem" being the worst).

Summerset makes more sense if you play MW 1st.

Cambruin · June 2018

Nestor wrote: »

Hmmm, i have not spent that much time is Summerset but i went from CP1123 to CP1126 (1,000,000 plus per point now) just doing geysers and a few Justciar dailies. I would say exp rates are just fine.

Also, almost every zone has an unlocked WS just use one on Summerset to get to them. As for Navigators, you sure there are no Anchor or Wagon Icons on the map? I have not looked myself because I use the unlocked wayshrines.

Except that newbie players do not know about geysers. What we do is go from quest to quest. The first chain with Razum Dar takes like an hour to gain exactly what... 2-3 lvls? I was 5 or 6 in the time it usually takes me to complete any of the starter islands (well, except for the khajit one, which is on-par xp/hour wise with the other starter zones I guess but somehow I'm not fond of it).
That first chain also leads to what? 1? Maybe 2 skyshards? Zero perhaps? Whereas the starter zones who take far less time grant way more xp, way more skyshards, more quests and are a lot less on-rails.
In other words, by the time a newbie left any of the starter zones they had several skills to choose from, gained a number of levels giving a sense of progression whereas Summerset gives hardly anything at all.

Wayshrines are not an option also as they don't have the gold or guildies to port.

It is a very bad first impression to anyone looking for engaging gameplay.

The versatility in builds, the sense of non-linear progression, the combat, ... all fairly strong points of ESO which do not shine at all in Summerset. A lot of talking, extremely boring combat due to only 3 skills being unlocked and a lot of running without offering much of anything in return.

Morrowind did so much better. Sorry, just very disappointed with this expansion.

Cambruin · June 2018

Sharee wrote: »

Somehow i don't think newbies care all that much about xp/hour ratio...

But they do care about engaging gameplay and wish to advance a bit so they can unlock additional skills and allocate attribute points, giving a sense of progression, showing off ESO's strong points.
Summerset as a starter zone does none of the above.

SteveCampsOut · June 2018

Cadbury wrote: »

Personally, I preferred they just kept the original Wailing Prison tutorial, with maybe having an option to do the Morrowind or Summerset tutorial on your next alt. But they want to show off the new area so new tutorial it is.

I hope this doesn't become a trend - i.e., Having a new tutorial with each new DLC while phasing out the older one.

Too late. It's already a trend with new chapters having done it twice now.

VaranisArano · June 2018

I leveled up a new character in Summerset, and sure the first few levels took awhile, but I didnt have to do much fighting either.

I made it to level 20 following the main quest and doing every regional quest I found along the way, so I was pretty satisfied with it.

Juju_beans · June 2018

Cadbury wrote: »

Personally, I preferred they just kept the original Wailing Prison tutorial, with maybe having an option to do the Morrowind or Summerset tutorial on your next alt. But they want to show off the new area so new tutorial it is.

I hope this doesn't become a trend - i.e., Having a new tutorial with each new DLC while phasing out the older one.

I agree. New players go to wailing prison. Existing players do the new tutorials which gives them a storyline into the chapter/dlc.

When I created my warden I plopped me in vardenfell so I quested there and thought there was no more wailing prison.
Then wondered how I was supposed to start the main quest (knowing this from having leveled a character before morrowind dropped). Wasn't until I went to either Daggerfall/VG where someone appeared and started me on the main quest.

A brand new player would have no clue about the wailing prison/main quest.

MLGProPlayer · June 2018

Sharee wrote: »

Somehow i don't think newbies care all that much about xp/hour ratio...

The bigger issue is the story not making any sense for newbies. They're being dropped into the conclusion of the Daedric War story arc.

Zardayne · June 2018

Cadbury wrote: »

Personally, I preferred they just kept the original Wailing Prison tutorial, with maybe having an option to do the Morrowind or Summerset tutorial on your next alt. But they want to show off the new area so new tutorial it is.

I hope this doesn't become a trend - i.e., Having a new tutorial with each new DLC while phasing out the older one.

They should have stuck with Wailing prison starter IMO.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO · June 2018

If your leisure time involves "XP-to-hour ratio", you seriously need to rethink your life.

Blutengel · June 2018

Lore wise all they talk about is New comers showing up on the island so it all makes perfect sense and the exp is just fine and this is the earliest place to find groups at the moment so I don't get why we have to complain about everything...

aedra · June 2018

Blutengel wrote: »

Lore wise all they talk about is New comers showing up on the island so it all makes perfect sense and the exp is just fine and this is the earliest place to find groups at the moment so I don't get why we have to complain about everything...

Indeed, if you're a brand new character in Summerset, you're simply a newcomer there for whatever reason thanks to the Queen's Decree. As with Elder Scrolls tradition that backstory is up to you.

SirPaws · June 2018

I just started a new character in order to experience the setting through High Elven eyes, see what differences there were in dialogue options etc, and to play the new tutorial. To start with I was worried about moments in which suspension of disbelief becomes impossible. I mean, this new character doesn't know much about the alliances or the Three Banners War (and in theory neither would a new player), so I wondered at what point that would come up and become a quest option, and how that would be handled.

I was also curious about the length of the first mission which doesn't really get concluded until you land on Artaeum. It is quite a long mission with little xp gain if you stick with it (when I first played I was distracted by everything so made a conscious effort this time to focus).

However, the game quickly makes up for that with the Psijic Questline and the Museum quests which send you all over Summerset and, in the case of the Psijic quests, to different zones.

Because NPCs only make passing references to the war and as of yet there has been no quest chain to follow to start that traditional path, I couldn't help but wonder if this was actually intentional. Like, if I think about it now, this setup gives the player total freedom - choosing a faction during character creation seems obsolete by design, in a way. Once I start down the Psijic line, my character's focus shifts from the story as we know it to a story involving the Psjic Order as the central theme.

I guess what I'm saying is, from the eyes of a new character and possibly a new player, the main quest is the Psijic Order, with everything that used to be the MQ now almost side quests in status.

I read somewhere that ZOS regretted the factions idea now, and part of me wonders if this is a clever way around it on a surface level. In theory, I could now spend my character's whole career without ever noticing what my faction is. Oriandra, Valsirenn, and Raz are so intrinsically tied up with what could be a new player's emotional connection to the game that they almost feel to me like how Lyris and co. used to.

I'm not sure if that makes any sense at all, but there does seem to be a slight perception shift. Before, I would feel inclined to progressing the Main Harborage quests along with my faction, but now I think my inclination will be to treat Summerset and the Psijic Order in the same way, relegating those other quests into the background. I have yet to see how Morrowind's MQ and CWC are introduced to someone who hasn't done them, but I'm guessing there is a change in dialogue from Sil at the end of Summerset to make those things become next on the agenda(?) If so, the main over-arching story barely includes the Alliances and Molag Bal's planemeld. To be fair, that was true as of ESO Morrowind, I suppose, but the difference feels like Morrowind didn't make you leave and explore like the Psjic Order does.

Radinyn · June 2018

Let us choose the tutorial! Very simple but just do this.

MaleAmazon · June 2018

Indeed, if you're a brand new character in Summerset, you're simply a newcomer there for whatever reason thanks to the Queen's Decree. As with Elder Scrolls tradition that backstory is up to you.

Except it´s not. The dialogue with Razum-dar implies that you´ve met, and the Summerset story follows on the Morrowind one.

The only explanation is that ´you´ve forgotten things´, when in fact you haven´t, you haven´t done them yet.

Storywise the ESO quest arc starts in the wailing prison, continues on the newbie island (Raz saying "You there! Wet one! This one needs to speak to you", implying you just got out of the water, Kaleen or Liezl having pulled you out in the other alliances). I don´t remember exactly if I started on newbie island on my very first character or if already back then you started by a quest giver pointing you to the starting quests as a semi-optional beginning. Subsequent quests do follow a story arc, you get to meet people you saved previously in the EP questline for example, which is very confusing if you skipped that part.

The Morrowind / Clockwork city and Summerset questlines are also connected. It makes little sense the way it is now, never mind that I have to walk into the-most-obvious-trap-ever, in order to begin the main questline.

IMO they should start you in the wailing prison with an option to skip. Since you would then start in a specific place in each alliance, easy enough to place objects that start the DLC questlines there. Experienced players could follow instructions to questgivers same as now.

I just played through the Summerset tutorial and TBH it´s just a slapped on 3-minute miniquest that is worse than the wailing prison one; which at least teaches you things like lockpicking fairly naturally.

I remember my first time in ESO, in the Ebonheart Pact. The story was actually quite good, and made sense since you were pointed in the direction where it *actually starts*...

xeNNNNN · June 2018

driosketch wrote: »

I would argue for new, actual new, players it's better slow. They need to learn the ABCs of combat mechanics before they start rushing off to level 50. When a player is ready to grind, they will know where to go, or will do the research.

Cambruin wrote: »

And what about the lore-perspective?! You're dropped in this highly off-limits region without any reason given

Welcome to Elder Scrolls games. Especially from TES III: Morrowind, you start out a prisoner without any backstory. You are meant to fill that in yourself. Honestly, ESO is a bit better providing you context by comparison.

I will say, though, for experienced players choosing the start point for a new character should be an option.

YEP! I made a bosmer NB for PvP the other day and was kinda shocked that I had no choice as too where I could start my character because morrowind actually gave you a choice, you could start the original story or start on vardenfell... now you have no choice...again....

Remember they actually had to ADD IT IN because people complained lol.

People buy the content then they try to push you into playing it right out of the bat instead of starting from the ground up.

Also if you start in summer set you're effectively doing the entire overarching story of the game backwards...which is....well not interesting. its actually kind of annoying.

VaranisArano · June 2018

xeNNNNN wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

I would argue for new, actual new, players it's better slow. They need to learn the ABCs of combat mechanics before they start rushing off to level 50. When a player is ready to grind, they will know where to go, or will do the research.

Cambruin wrote: »

And what about the lore-perspective?! You're dropped in this highly off-limits region without any reason given

Welcome to Elder Scrolls games. Especially from TES III: Morrowind, you start out a prisoner without any backstory. You are meant to fill that in yourself. Honestly, ESO is a bit better providing you context by comparison.

I will say, though, for experienced players choosing the start point for a new character should be an option.

YEP! I made a bosmer NB for PvP the other day and was kinda shocked that I had no choice as too where I could start my character because morrowind actually gave you a choice, you could start the original story or start on vardenfell... now you have no choice...again....

Remember they actually had to ADD IT IN because people complained lol.

People buy the content then they try to push you into playing it right out of the bat instead of starting from the ground up.

Also if you start in summer set you're effectively doing the entire overarching story of the game backwards...which is....well not interesting. its actually kind of annoying.

Morrowind did not give you a choice any more than Summerset.

If you owned Morrowind, you did the tutorial or started in Seyda Neen. You could wayshrine to a starter city if you wanted to do the main quest.

If you own summerset, you do the tutorial or you start in Shimmerene. If you want to do the main quest, you wayshrine to your starter city.

I wish we still did the Coldharbor tutorial and then it dropped us off in the new content instead.

xeNNNNN · June 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

I would argue for new, actual new, players it's better slow. They need to learn the ABCs of combat mechanics before they start rushing off to level 50. When a player is ready to grind, they will know where to go, or will do the research.

Cambruin wrote: »

And what about the lore-perspective?! You're dropped in this highly off-limits region without any reason given

Welcome to Elder Scrolls games. Especially from TES III: Morrowind, you start out a prisoner without any backstory. You are meant to fill that in yourself. Honestly, ESO is a bit better providing you context by comparison.

I will say, though, for experienced players choosing the start point for a new character should be an option.

YEP! I made a bosmer NB for PvP the other day and was kinda shocked that I had no choice as too where I could start my character because morrowind actually gave you a choice, you could start the original story or start on vardenfell... now you have no choice...again....

Remember they actually had to ADD IT IN because people complained lol.

People buy the content then they try to push you into playing it right out of the bat instead of starting from the ground up.

Also if you start in summer set you're effectively doing the entire overarching story of the game backwards...which is....well not interesting. its actually kind of annoying.

Morrowind did not give you a choice any more than Summerset.

If you owned Morrowind, you did the tutorial or started in Seyda Neen. You could wayshrine to a starter city if you wanted to do the main quest.

If you own summerset, you do the tutorial or you start in Shimmerene. If you want to do the main quest, you wayshrine to your starter city.

I wish we still did the Coldharbor tutorial and then it dropped us off in the new content instead.

As far as I remember we had a choice but only after a while of complaining. I remember the threads about it too. My warden had the choice when I made it (now deleted as warden is 100% boredom on steroids).

jssriot · June 2018

I wish they would offer clearer instruction to new players that they have the option to start with the base game content by going to their faction's first zone. I have done the Wailing Prison tutorial many time prior to Morrowind, and have done both the tutorials for Morrowind and Summerset, and the Wailing Prison is by far still the superior both in terms of a tutorial and introducing the player to the story. And the base game's noob zones are still better for new players than either expansion. It's fine that for experienced players to start with the expansions with their newer toons if they wish, but I agree that newer players would be better served if they were directed to the base game's original progression rather than being dropped down in the latest expansion.

Numerikuu · June 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Somehow i don't think newbies care all that much about xp/hour ratio...

The bigger issue is the story not making any sense for newbies. They're being dropped into the conclusion of the Daedric War story arc.

This. One Tamriel already made story progression messy, but this is the worst so far imo. It's like picking up an epic and skipping right to the last chapter. Not to mention it's difficult to discern what's a main story quest and what isn't. (Unless you have addons, but even then...)

Elsterchen · June 2018

Blutengel wrote: »

Lore wise all they talk about is New comers showing up on the island so it all makes perfect sense and the exp is just fine and this is the earliest place to find groups at the moment so I don't get why we have to complain about everything...

... its not about complainingfor no reason. The first questgiver one meets is Razum Dar. An NPC a newbie doesn't share a (hi-)story with. Yet especially in the main story of SI there are a lot of references to the mainland storylines (main quest) as well as NPCs newbies first meet in the following DLCs/chapters.

I agree this isn't welldone for first-time ESOplayers and I agree this doesn't help them to engage in the beautiful story of ESO.

Stovahkiin · June 2018

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

If your leisure time involves "XP-to-hour ratio", you seriously need to rethink your life.

Star-Wars-Attack-of-the-Clones-image-star-wars-attack-of-the-clones-36217216-500-269.gif

DuskMarine · June 2018

Cambruin wrote: »

It has some of the absolute worst xp/hour ratio, making it a very bad idea for new players. There's not even as much as an explanation of where to go for those who wish to leave. Just ran to both harbors I saw, not a single ship taking me to Vvardenfell, Stros m'Kai, ... And what about the lore-perspective?! You're dropped in this highly off-limits region without any reason given and if a reason is given you'd need to look for it. I haven't found it, but honestly can't be *rsed neither as the region has no appeal to me whatsoever.

Why can't we start in one of the actual starting areas instead where xp is bountiful and new players get an actual sense of progression?

theres this thing called quests...............ya know noobs should be doing those............not grinding they dont need cp level in a week they need to actually play the game first

RedRook · June 2018

I agree. Let people who already have CP alts choose where they want to start, but put actual noobs in the wailing prison and then the starter islands, it makes a lot more sense and they already have a lot of new information to process without the wtfery of dropping them in Summerset.

DuskMarine · June 2018

RedRook wrote: »

I agree. Let people who already have CP alts choose where they want to start, but put actual noobs in the wailing prison and then the starter islands, it makes a lot more sense and they already have a lot of new information to process without the wtfery of dropping them in Summerset.

actually they need to do the story in order as if i believe of what ive seen it as being right first you go to vardenfell, then clockwork city then wailing prison then after the main story you go to wrothgar then summerset. its really weird how the story works in this game.

static_recharge · June 2018

There's a harbor just north of Alinor along the West coast by the delve there. Takes you back to the main land I believe.