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Solution to sloads is :
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raasdal✭✭✭✭✭
✭Emma_Overload wrote: »This again?
This entire argument is invalid from the start and always has been. It does not matter one bit if it stacks or not. EVERYTHING stacks, and so it should.
I have mentioned it before, but i will repeat it untill this silly argument goes away;
If 4 people are stacking Sloads on you, the Sloads proc is the least of your worries. For these guys to proc Sloads on you, they will be damaging you (10% chance on damage, remember?). So no matter WHAT they stack on you, you will be dead.
This is the "10 people with Knightslayer" theory all over again. (Point being, this was an outcry back at Knightslayer launch, and no one seemed to understand that just the Heavy Attack from those 10 people would be enough to kill anyone).
So to put it straight;
Wether or not it stacks is utterly and completely irrelevant, since receiving that amount of damage from multiple opponents, will have you killed before you even feel the Sloads ticking.
There is only two issues with Sloads; It should have a 2 second cooldown period (active 6 sec, again at 8 sec) and it should not break cloak. Everything else is just fine, and is a L2P issue all around.
HAHAHA... you just had to slip that in at the end. Breaking cloak is the best reason for running this cancerous set. Take that away and you better nerf Shield Breaker, too, because Sorcs are going to riot!@raasdal
Maybe it helps if I try to be more succinct.
I can try to mitigate any damage those 4 players put out. Depending on the skill of the players and my defensive ability, that works or works not. The skill of the players and the defensive ability is taken out of this equation if you allow Oblivion damage to stack. The 10% proc chance is misleading. It really procs on any damage (even siege damage). It's very easy to proc.
I fully understand what you are saying. And i also fully understand the proc conditions and how easy it is to apply.
But my point is this;
What is the difference between those 4 players stacking Viper or Sloads ?
What is the difference between those 4 players "stacking" Oblivion Enchants or Sloads?
Your problem (Sorc) is not the fact that it can be stacked. Because if that was really the problem, you should / would also be calling for Viper's to not be stacking and a GLOBAL cooldown on Oblivion Enchants. Those 4 people can put MORE damage on you with an Infused Torugs Oblivion Enchant, than they can with Sloads. And just as easily.
So my point to you is, that your problem is with Oblivion Damage in general, and how it removes your main defensive mechanic (shields) and NOT wether or not it stacks.
And believe it or not, i do agree. Oblivion damage is bad and should not be in the game. But Sloads stacking is not a problem in itself.
The difference here is that there is no either or - you can use Sloads AND Infused Oblivion enchants. Enchants are dodgeable and although strong, not too detrimental in their current state. Oblivion enchants alone were *already* a problem. Oblivion Damage in itself is horrible for PvP in such large amounts through super easy procs.
Back in the day Viper was broken OP. Solo play was almost impossible (unless you were a Stam NB also using it lol) because the burst put out by even mediocre players was now high. After the nerf (current version) it became an okay set with mediocre set bonuses. Nothing special. The damage is not too high since it’s a DoT builds using it are kind of bit gimped in their other damage. Sure a group can all use it, but they would have hurt you more by simply stacking damage the normal way. No group of noobs will farm out Viper for such a small advantage when grouped vs 1 target. Viper’s is weak and completely mitigatable.
But Sloads? Sloads is crafted. Sloads has good set bonuses. The proc also ignores EVERYTHING including Battle Spirit. This makes the DoT much more powerful, and your main sources of defense whether shields/temporary Major Protection from Ult/whatever will fail to stop it. If a few Sload procs stack on you the only way to survive is excessive healing which some classes are not even capable of, especially when a CP-buffed Major Defile is on you.
If you are a Mag Sorc and a few Sload procs stack on you, your only means of survival will become to spam Healing Ward or you will die. Will Sorcs need to slot Blessing of Restoration now to counter one set? Rapid Regen alone is not enough to save you from more than one proc. Surge is also a terrible heal when you are pressured and won’t proc at all when spamming shields to save yourself. Plus with the need to slot Rapid Regen, finding room on your bars for any other non-essential skill is a nightmare.
Why have you been put in such a Magicka-costly, defensive state of spamming Healing Ward you might ask? Is it a really good player focusing you within the group of bad players? Nope, the answer is a new armor proc. And if they put any more pressure on you (why would enemies stop attacking?) then you are dead. Throw in a Shieldbreaker too just for lolz. They can now 100% hardcounter your defense. Oh and if you have Major Defile applied you are deeeeeead. All skill involved is gone. Activate Resto Ult, Streak through your targets and get tf out of there or get hardcountered once your Ult expires.
In the past, Shieldbreaker would only provide an advantage vs shielded opponents which is not very enticing since you are gimped vs others. Sloads provides that hardcounter but now without the condition of Shieldbreaker.
What if you’re a Stam build especially in Medium Armor? Do you think your HoTs will save you vs Major Defile and a few Sload Procs? Nope. You’re screwed because Sload procced on you.
Oh and if you’re a NB you can’t even Cloak now xD ZOS is literally favoring procs over player skill.
Sloads should not exist. Oblivion Damage should never be high enough to make any noticeable difference in a fight imo. Totally broken mechanic.
Well, except for your comparison with Viper (which is inaccurate imo), i do agree fully. Procsets and Oblivion damage are bad mechanics. No argument there. But this was a discussion solely on wether it should stack or not.Waffennacht wrote: »Either everything stacks or nothing stacks. Called mechanics; ZoS is already too inconsistent
Yup. Agree.PC - EU
Gromag Gro-Molag - Sorcerer - EP
Dexion Velus - Dragonknight - AD
Chalaux Erissa - Nightblade - AD
Firiel Erissa - Templar - AD1 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Its funny you guys think sloads hurts Sorcs most....
Let me spell it out a bit..
Rapid Regen > Sloads as long as there is no other damage for it to heal.
Shields stops the other damage letting rapid regen deal with Sloads..
Let me tell you who sloads DOES hurt.. Everybody else.. Pretty much everyone who uses a hots to deal with incoming damage, sload pretty much nullifies the healing from one of your hots.. So how do you deal with the other damage with your vigour effectively nullified??
I mean...you basically just described how dots work....Disagree. It is not balanced in 1v1 situations, especially in no CP environments when healing is significantly reduced. I don't even want to step into BGs because this one set. It's worse than Viper was back in the day.
Sloads is litterally the almost exact same damage as Viper's is now. Only difference is, that it goes through shields and breaks cloak. On most targets, Viper will tick for 600 / second. Sloads is 800 sec. That is NO CP numbers. In CP, they will be even.
So unless you are a Shielder or Blocker, there is absolutely no argument for saying Sloads is OP in a 1v1, unless you ALSO think that Viper is equally OP.
It generally seems like no one is actually able to make an unbiased judgement of raw damage output, and compare to other relevant procsets - and thereby realize that what they thought they had a problem with (the damage, the stacking, the shieldbreaking etc.) is not really the underlying problem....
But lets stay on point. This was about wether or not it is broken because of the fact it will stack.
Viper I believe got changed a while back to go through Block if I remember correctly.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos1 -
barshemm✭✭✭✭I think an Oblivion damage dot that does appreciable damage is just too overpowered. I think they should just make it a situational counter set like the other Oblivion damage enchant sets that exist.
Shield breaker is a counter to shield stacking.
Knight Slayer is a counter to the high health tank builds.
Drop the damage of sload to something neglible like 1hp a tick. Then it's a counter to cloak spamming nightblade.4 -
FuryOfTyphon✭✭✭I think a big problem people are missing with Sloads is how OP bleeds are when stacked with Sloads, then add in defiles and big boy burst ults (incap, DBoS, Leap etc), and add in a another person doing the same and its GG.
For example you can light attack once on a backbar 2h battle axe, proc a bleed, bar swap, light attack/rending slash, this adds a DoT and you guessed it procs another DW axe bleed, + sloads on top of that.
Thats two fat ass bleeds, a strong asf DoT which snares, and then an unmitigatable oblivion DoT that procs instanly and has close to 100% uptime.
The worst part about this, is that you do all of that with literally 2 light attacks and one ability, which is ridiculously cheap. To even mitigate or outheal any of this damage you'd have to burn through at least two or three times the resources than was required to put out this insane DoT pressure, if you have 50%+ defile on you, you are pretty much GG. Throw in some actual abilities like SA, jabs, etc + a stun and it is waaaaay overperforming. This doesnt even account for the fact that all of these stack with other meta humpers using this cheese.Too many too list.2 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I think it needs a more appropriate proc condition - like this:
20% chance when you deal Oblivion damage to place a Leeching Shadow...
This would basically limit the proc chance to weapon enchants and Shield breaker / Knight Slayer
Just an idea, but I agree Sload's is over-tuned.2 -
Master_Kas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IZZEFlameLash wrote: »
It's not really the same tough.
Shieldbreaker doesn't stop you from using your shield or removes it, it still absorbs the other incoming damage.
It would be like sloads not breaking cloak, only doing damage even while you're cloaked. But still being invisible/avoiding the non-aoe/oblivion damage.
Try again?
EU | PC3 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think an Oblivion damage dot that does appreciable damage is just too overpowered. I think they should just make it a situational counter set like the other Oblivion damage enchant sets that exist.
Shield breaker is a counter to shield stacking.
Knight Slayer is a counter to the high health tank builds.
Drop the damage of sload to something neglible like 1hp a tick. Then it's a counter to cloak spamming nightblade.
Drop it to 1 hp?,then go ahead and have it prevent stealth for 10 seconds. Tired of the BS cloak, cloak, cloak, cloak, dodge roll, dodge roll, cloak nightblades. Finally something they can't just cloak and run from.2 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Master_Kas wrote: »IZZEFlameLash wrote: »
It's not really the same tough.
Shieldbreaker doesn't stop you from using your shield or removes it, it still absorbs the other incoming damage.
It would be like sloads not breaking cloak, only doing damage even while you're cloaked. But still being invisible/avoiding the non-aoe/oblivion damage.
Try again?
Unfortunately for you, it is the same in how it nullifies defense skills completely. No difference there. Shieldbreaker makes it pointless to shield against which is to mitigate the damage. Sload's do not allow Cloak as it should as a true damage. Only difference is the condition of true damage proc'ing. So, it is the same. Come again?Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel0 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Its funny you guys think sloads hurts Sorcs most....
Let me spell it out a bit..
Rapid Regen > Sloads as long as there is no other damage for it to heal.
Shields stops the other damage letting rapid regen deal with Sloads..
Let me tell you who sloads DOES hurt.. Everybody else.. Pretty much everyone who uses a hots to deal with incoming damage, sload pretty much nullifies the healing from one of your hots.. So how do you deal with the other damage with your vigour effectively nullified??
My solution is to not take damage in the first place. I roll, put reflect on, stun, damage, rinse -> repeat. Every PvP encounter I switch between defense and offense phases. Since I have good memory if I encounter someone once, I'll remember everything they did and predict exactly what they will do, and if not I keep track of what set they have and whats on their skill bar. If someone copies a build, I predict them even easier. The result is usually easy kills for me, but if the enemy is "good" or has an OP build, 1v1 might take over an hour and it becomes an endurance battle instead of a skill one. I've honestly noticed little to no difference fighting against people that are wearing sloads...None of them last more than 3-5 min max.
Only one time I have died to sloads: when I encountered an entire zerg wearing it...I honestly lol'd.
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Master_Kas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IZZEFlameLash wrote: »Master_Kas wrote: »IZZEFlameLash wrote: »
It's not really the same tough.
Shieldbreaker doesn't stop you from using your shield or removes it, it still absorbs the other incoming damage.
It would be like sloads not breaking cloak, only doing damage even while you're cloaked. But still being invisible/avoiding the non-aoe/oblivion damage.
Try again?
Unfortunately for you, it is the same in how it nullifies defense skills completely. No difference there. Shieldbreaker makes it pointless to shield against which is to mitigate the damage. Sload's do not allow Cloak as it should as a true damage. Only difference is the condition of true damage proc'ing. So, it is the same. Come again?
Lol so you can't use a shield to migate non oblivion damage when you get hit by shieldbreaker? Or does it remove your shield? No didn't think so.
Sload is breaking/removing cloak not just bypassing it. Try to twist this how you want but the only thing these sets have in common is that they do oblivion damage.
The tears of the sorcs would be far greater If it disabled/removed their shield while also bypassing it
But whatever, won't get changed anytime soon. Lets enjoy the sloads.Edited by Master_Kas on June 1, 2018 3:02AMEU | PC0 -
Oxalias✭✭✭I think an Oblivion damage dot that does appreciable damage is just too overpowered. I think they should just make it a situational counter set like the other Oblivion damage enchant sets that exist.
Shield breaker is a counter to shield stacking.
Knight Slayer is a counter to the high health tank builds.
Drop the damage of sload to something neglible like 1hp a tick. Then it's a counter to cloak spamming nightblade.
Once again people defending Shield Breaker and Knight Slayer; If a 35k health tank melt with oblivion damage, why would any other class not suffer? A lot of players are out there with 17k health. Poor souls.
If tanks are still a problem in this game in cp (which I don't think they are) they zos should just make sure they don't do as much damage, tanking is a playstyle too, just like healing :'/0 -
Nemeliom✭✭✭✭Disagree. It is not balanced in 1v1 situations, especially in no CP environments when healing is significantly reduced. I don't even want to step into BGs because this one set. It's worse than Viper was back in the day.
Wooo woo wooow. Easy friend. Nothing is worst than viperBaradur Morker - Level 50 Bosmer Nightblade
Le-Duck - Level 50 Dark Elf Dragonknight
Boom-Stormer - Level 50 High Elf Sorcerer
Nemeliom the Great - Level 50 Redguard Warden
Crazy Little Maggie - Level 50 High Elf Templar0 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭6 second proc, 12 second cooldown.
Change damage type to fire or disease based on highest resource pool.
Halve current value (still doesn't fix core design issue with oblivion damage, but at least makes it less effective).
Require some condition beyond "deal damage" to proc. 10% chance on crit, or on light attack, or on direct damage. Anything but just "deals damage."
Delete the set and start over.
....but whatever, it's going to be 3 months before a meaningful change. I may cave and craft a set this evening. It's been fun using skills to kill other players, now I'll just use skills for defense and let my offense come almost entirely from 3 stacked procs. Woo.Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DeadlyRecluse wrote: »6 second proc, 12 second cooldown.
Change damage type to fire or disease based on highest resource pool.
Halve current value (still doesn't fix core design issue with oblivion damage, but at least makes it less effective).
Require some condition beyond "deal damage" to proc. 10% chance on crit, or on light attack, or on direct damage. Anything but just "deals damage."
Delete the set and start over.
....but whatever, it's going to be 3 months before a meaningful change. I may cave and craft a set this evening. It's been fun using skills to kill other players, now I'll just use skills for defense and let my offense come almost entirely from 3 stacked procs. Woo.
The blinding light when all proc at once is pretty amazing1 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Only one instance may exist on a target at a time. No more multiple players sloads stacking on one person.
Sloads by itself if fine. It's slightly counter to shield builds that don't run restoration. The problem is when a group of players stack sloads on one target and there's no counterplay, just death.
Agreed. Please do the same to Zaan, Haunting Curse and PotL too.0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Only one instance may exist on a target at a time. No more multiple players sloads stacking on one person.
Sloads by itself if fine. It's slightly counter to shield builds that don't run restoration. The problem is when a group of players stack sloads on one target and there's no counterplay, just death.
And now tell me why this should not apply to literally every other dot in the game?
Your solution is bad and you should feel bad.
Shame. shame.shame.shame.Edited by Ragnarock41 on June 1, 2018 8:27PM0 -
LegacyDM✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Only one instance may exist on a target at a time. No more multiple players sloads stacking on one person.
Sloads by itself if fine. It's slightly counter to shield builds that don't run restoration. The problem is when a group of players stack sloads on one target and there's no counterplay, just death.
And now tell me why this should not apply to literally every other dot in the game?
Your solution is bad and you should feel bad.
Shame. shame.shame.shame.
All other dots are mitigated through battle spirit, shields, armor resistance, damage reduction, should I keep going? There is no mitigation for oblivion.Legacy of Kain
Vicious Carnage
¥ampire Lord of the South0 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Only one instance may exist on a target at a time. No more multiple players sloads stacking on one person.
Sloads by itself if fine. It's slightly counter to shield builds that don't run restoration. The problem is when a group of players stack sloads on one target and there's no counterplay, just death.
And now tell me why this should not apply to literally every other dot in the game?
Your solution is bad and you should feel bad.
Shame. shame.shame.shame.
All other dots are mitigated through battle spirit, shields, armor resistance, damage reduction, should I keep going? There is no mitigation for oblivion.
You can out heal it easily. Take that.0 -
LegacyDM✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Only one instance may exist on a target at a time. No more multiple players sloads stacking on one person.
Sloads by itself if fine. It's slightly counter to shield builds that don't run restoration. The problem is when a group of players stack sloads on one target and there's no counterplay, just death.
And now tell me why this should not apply to literally every other dot in the game?
Your solution is bad and you should feel bad.
Shame. shame.shame.shame.
All other dots are mitigated through battle spirit, shields, armor resistance, damage reduction, should I keep going? There is no mitigation for oblivion.
You can out heal it easily. Take that.
Sure in a 1v1 duel. But in BGs and cyrodil when people are stacking sloads it’s cancer and OP. Right back at you.Legacy of Kain
Vicious Carnage
¥ampire Lord of the South2 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Only one instance may exist on a target at a time. No more multiple players sloads stacking on one person.
Sloads by itself if fine. It's slightly counter to shield builds that don't run restoration. The problem is when a group of players stack sloads on one target and there's no counterplay, just death.
And now tell me why this should not apply to literally every other dot in the game?
Your solution is bad and you should feel bad.
Shame. shame.shame.shame.
All other dots are mitigated through battle spirit, shields, armor resistance, damage reduction, should I keep going? There is no mitigation for oblivion.
You can out heal it easily. Take that.
Sure in a 1v1 duel. But in BGs and cyrodil when people are stacking sloads it’s cancer and OP. Right back at you.
Not worried. I can out heal it. Back at you now.0 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Only one instance may exist on a target at a time. No more multiple players sloads stacking on one person.
Sloads by itself if fine. It's slightly counter to shield builds that don't run restoration. The problem is when a group of players stack sloads on one target and there's no counterplay, just death.
And now tell me why this should not apply to literally every other dot in the game?
Your solution is bad and you should feel bad.
Shame. shame.shame.shame.
All other dots are mitigated through battle spirit, shields, armor resistance, damage reduction, should I keep going? There is no mitigation for oblivion.
You can out heal it easily. Take that.
Sure in a 1v1 duel. But in BGs and cyrodil when people are stacking sloads it’s cancer and OP. Right back at you.
Not worried. I can out heal it. Back at you now.
If you are magplar hwo isn't defile you will outheal multiple sload.
How about others ?1 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Only one instance may exist on a target at a time. No more multiple players sloads stacking on one person.
Sloads by itself if fine. It's slightly counter to shield builds that don't run restoration. The problem is when a group of players stack sloads on one target and there's no counterplay, just death.
And now tell me why this should not apply to literally every other dot in the game?
Your solution is bad and you should feel bad.
Shame. shame.shame.shame.
All other dots are mitigated through battle spirit, shields, armor resistance, damage reduction, should I keep going? There is no mitigation for oblivion.
You can out heal it easily. Take that.
Sure in a 1v1 duel. But in BGs and cyrodil when people are stacking sloads it’s cancer and OP. Right back at you.
Not worried. I can out heal it. Back at you now.
If you are magplar hwo isn't defile you will outheal multiple sload.
How about others ?
I have 5 characters. I think I can out heal it on all. Stam DK, mag dk, stam warden, mag warden, stam sorc. Not worried about sloads. I got the answer for it.0 -
WeylandLabs✭✭✭✭✭Just to test players complaints I started a thread of counters. We will see if players want a counter or just want to complain. Sounds like people just want to complain, that very disturbing and hipocrtical. Maybe a different thread on players being hypocritical rather then funding solutions is needed.2
