Solution to sloads is :

Vencenzo

Only one instance may exist on a target at a time. No more multiple players sloads stacking on one person.

Sloads by itself if fine. It's slightly counter to shield builds that don't run restoration. The problem is when a group of players stack sloads on one target and there's no counterplay, just death.

Azurya

good proposal!
count me in!

Vaoh

Wait it can STACK Can’t wait for this one on console.

So a group of like 4 can wear Sloads+Valkyn Skoria and then legit cast one weak DoT each onto their target and then stand still as the target melts away... oh and if it’s a Mag Sorc you won’t even need the Valkyn Skoria - 1-2 Sloads already outdpses their healing.

Best. Game. Ever

Mureel

Yeah shield stacking turtlers NEEDED a good sload to the face tbh.

ak_pvp

Make it everything in PvP and even better.

IlCanis_LupuslI

To be fair, shield stacking turtlers(so by that pretty much every magsorc i run into in PvP) do very little damage... I literally haven´t been killed by a sorc with that playstyle even in a Xv1 situation ever since they nerfed the frags by taking away the stunn and 10% damage reduction. They are just tanks in disguise you can pretty much ignore them, to keep up 3 shields up at the same time, you have to have a very high sustain meaning you have effectivly 0 damage--->No threat what so ever (just dont drop under 20% damage theyll spamm Mages Wrath as soon as you drop under 50% hoping for a lucky hit )

Biro123

Its funny you guys think sloads hurts Sorcs most....

Let me spell it out a bit..

Rapid Regen > Sloads as long as there is no other damage for it to heal.
Shields stops the other damage letting rapid regen deal with Sloads..

Let me tell you who sloads DOES hurt.. Everybody else.. Pretty much everyone who uses a hots to deal with incoming damage, sload pretty much nullifies the healing from one of your hots.. So how do you deal with the other damage with your vigour effectively nullified??

Nerftheforums

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

To be fair, shield stacking turtlers(so by that pretty much every magsorc i run into in PvP) do very little damage... I literally haven´t been killed by a sorc with that playstyle even in a Xv1 situation ever since they nerfed the frags by taking away the stunn and 10% damage reduction. They are just tanks in disguise you can pretty much ignore them, to keep up 3 shields up at the same time, you have to have a very high sustain meaning you have effectivly 0 damage--->No threat what so ever (just dont drop under 20% damage theyll spamm Mages Wrath as soon as you drop under 50% hoping for a lucky hit )

You tried, you sorc in disguise. You tried.

raasdal

This again?

This entire argument is invalid from the start and always has been. It does not matter one bit if it stacks or not. EVERYTHING stacks, and so it should.

I have mentioned it before, but i will repeat it untill this silly argument goes away;

If 4 people are stacking Sloads on you, the Sloads proc is the least of your worries. For these guys to proc Sloads on you, they will be damaging you (10% chance on damage, remember?). So no matter WHAT they stack on you, you will be dead.

This is the "10 people with Knightslayer" theory all over again. (Point being, this was an outcry back at Knightslayer launch, and no one seemed to understand that just the Heavy Attack from those 10 people would be enough to kill anyone).

So to put it straight;

Wether or not it stacks is utterly and completely irrelevant, since receiving that amount of damage from multiple opponents, will have you killed before you even feel the Sloads ticking.

There is only two issues with Sloads; It should have a 2 second cooldown period (active 6 sec, again at 8 sec) and it should not break cloak. Everything else is just fine, and is a L2P issue all around.

Mureel

raasdal wrote: »

This again?

This entire argument is invalid from the start and always has been. It does not matter one bit if it stacks or not. EVERYTHING stacks, and so it should.

I have mentioned it before, but i will repeat it untill this silly argument goes away;

If 4 people are stacking Sloads on you, the Sloads proc is the least of your worries. For these guys to proc Sloads on you, they will be damaging you (10% chance on damage, remember?). So no matter WHAT they stack on you, you will be dead.

This is the "10 people with Knightslayer" theory all over again. (Point being, this was an outcry back at Knightslayer launch, and no one seemed to understand that just the Heavy Attack from those 10 people would be enough to kill anyone).

So to put it straight;

Wether or not it stacks is utterly and completely irrelevant, since receiving that amount of damage from multiple opponents, will have you killed before you even feel the Sloads ticking.

There is only two issues with Sloads; It should have a 2 second cooldown period (active 6 sec, again at 8 sec) and it should not break cloak. Everything else is just fine, and is a L2P issue all around.

I can agree.

Beardimus

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

To be fair, shield stacking turtlers(so by that pretty much every magsorc i run into in PvP) do very little damage... I literally haven´t been killed by a sorc with that playstyle even in a Xv1 situation ever since they nerfed the frags by taking away the stunn and 10% damage reduction. They are just tanks in disguise you can pretty much ignore them, to keep up 3 shields up at the same time, you have to have a very high sustain meaning you have effectivly 0 damage--->No threat what so ever (just dont drop under 20% damage theyll spamm Mages Wrath as soon as you drop under 50% hoping for a lucky hit )

He speaketh the truth nice to hear it from a non Sorc perspective

Vencenzo

raasdal wrote: »

This again?

This entire argument is invalid from the start and always has been. It does not matter one bit if it stacks or not. EVERYTHING stacks, and so it should.

I have mentioned it before, but i will repeat it untill this silly argument goes away;

If 4 people are stacking Sloads on you, the Sloads proc is the least of your worries. For these guys to proc Sloads on you, they will be damaging you (10% chance on damage, remember?). So no matter WHAT they stack on you, you will be dead.

This is the "10 people with Knightslayer" theory all over again. (Point being, this was an outcry back at Knightslayer launch, and no one seemed to understand that just the Heavy Attack from those 10 people would be enough to kill anyone).

So to put it straight;

Wether or not it stacks is utterly and completely irrelevant, since receiving that amount of damage from multiple opponents, will have you killed before you even feel the Sloads ticking.

There is only two issues with Sloads; It should have a 2 second cooldown period (active 6 sec, again at 8 sec) and it should not break cloak. Everything else is just fine, and is a L2P issue all around.

I completely disagree with everything said here.
1. I am rarely fighting less than 10 people
2. 3 people negate magsorcs
3. knightslayer wasn't that good prenerf, 12% of 23k (average cyro hp) is only 2760 and heavy attacks are avoidable, it's only a tank counter which is fair.
4. I haven't seen this specific solution, so not sure what you mean by "this again"

brandonv516

raasdal wrote: »

This entire argument is invalid from the start and always has been. It does not matter one bit if it stacks or not. EVERYTHING stacks, and so it should.

Except this is the first time we have had an Oblivion DOT. It's kind of a big deal and there is a reason we are seeing 10+ new threads a day on this topic.

In its current form it is prone for abuse. Whether EVERYTHING stacks or not, Oblivion damage sets its own rules and should NOT stack.

Feanor

raasdal wrote: »

This again?

This entire argument is invalid from the start and always has been. It does not matter one bit if it stacks or not. EVERYTHING stacks, and so it should.

I have mentioned it before, but i will repeat it untill this silly argument goes away;

If 4 people are stacking Sloads on you, the Sloads proc is the least of your worries. For these guys to proc Sloads on you, they will be damaging you (10% chance on damage, remember?). So no matter WHAT they stack on you, you will be dead.

This is the "10 people with Knightslayer" theory all over again. (Point being, this was an outcry back at Knightslayer launch, and no one seemed to understand that just the Heavy Attack from those 10 people would be enough to kill anyone).

So to put it straight;

Wether or not it stacks is utterly and completely irrelevant, since receiving that amount of damage from multiple opponents, will have you killed before you even feel the Sloads ticking.

There is only two issues with Sloads; It should have a 2 second cooldown period (active 6 sec, again at 8 sec) and it should not break cloak. Everything else is just fine, and is a L2P issue all around.

Fighting 4 players doesn't mean you die. There are plenty of scenarios where you can survive the damage and disengage, namely when the 4 player's aren't good and there is LoS available. No amount of lacking skill on the opponents side and available LoS opportunities will save you from 4 Sload procs though.

In reality, that's just the Shieldbreaker argument over and over - "set is balanced because you would have died anyway". You defend a badly designed mechanic by saying it doesn't matter anyway. Which immediately begs the question why we need the badly designed mechanic in the first place.

Edit: As for not breaking cloak, why shouldn't it? So NBs can just happily ignore another source of damage everyone else has to deal with? If it's staying in the game everyone should equally have to deal with it.

Vencenzo

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

To be fair, shield stacking turtlers(so by that pretty much every magsorc i run into in PvP) do very little damage... I literally haven´t been killed by a sorc with that playstyle even in a Xv1 situation ever since they nerfed the frags by taking away the stunn and 10% damage reduction. They are just tanks in disguise you can pretty much ignore them, to keep up 3 shields up at the same time, you have to have a very high sustain meaning you have effectivly 0 damage--->No threat what so ever (just dont drop under 20% damage theyll spamm Mages Wrath as soon as you drop under 50% hoping for a lucky hit )

Agree with this and would like to expand on it.
Other aspects of magsorc have been nerfed so much that's dependent on shields. It made more sense when they were teleporting all over. I'm not saying lets go back to the days of teleporting across the map. But they should have the option to be more illusive than current. Also I think if built purely for the niche there should be spam teleporters or shield stackers that do little to no damage. It only becomes a problem when a build can do both damage and perma teleport or shield.

raasdal

Vencenzo wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

This again?

This entire argument is invalid from the start and always has been. It does not matter one bit if it stacks or not. EVERYTHING stacks, and so it should.

I have mentioned it before, but i will repeat it untill this silly argument goes away;

If 4 people are stacking Sloads on you, the Sloads proc is the least of your worries. For these guys to proc Sloads on you, they will be damaging you (10% chance on damage, remember?). So no matter WHAT they stack on you, you will be dead.

This is the "10 people with Knightslayer" theory all over again. (Point being, this was an outcry back at Knightslayer launch, and no one seemed to understand that just the Heavy Attack from those 10 people would be enough to kill anyone).

So to put it straight;

Wether or not it stacks is utterly and completely irrelevant, since receiving that amount of damage from multiple opponents, will have you killed before you even feel the Sloads ticking.

There is only two issues with Sloads; It should have a 2 second cooldown period (active 6 sec, again at 8 sec) and it should not break cloak. Everything else is just fine, and is a L2P issue all around.

I completely disagree with everything said here.
1. I am rarely fighting less than 10 people
2. 3 people negate magsorcs
3. knightslayer wasn't that good prenerf, 12% of 23k (average cyro hp) is only 2760 and heavy attacks are avoidable, it's only a tank counter which is fair.
4. I haven't seen this specific solution, so not sure what you mean by "this again"

1. "Fighting" and Taking Damage is two different things. You are not taking damage from 10 people. If you believe so, you are either lying, or not aware of reality.
2. What? It takes 1 person to counter anyone else, with a single ability. Not an argument.
3. Knightslayer is roughly same damage as Sloads, on a 25k target. Just requires more to apply. And HA is not avoidable, unless you plan to dodgeroll constantly. Also the mention was regarding the argument.
4. "Again" refers to the same "It stacks = bad" that has popped up in other threads.

Feanor wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

This again?

This entire argument is invalid from the start and always has been. It does not matter one bit if it stacks or not. EVERYTHING stacks, and so it should.

I have mentioned it before, but i will repeat it untill this silly argument goes away;

If 4 people are stacking Sloads on you, the Sloads proc is the least of your worries. For these guys to proc Sloads on you, they will be damaging you (10% chance on damage, remember?). So no matter WHAT they stack on you, you will be dead.

This is the "10 people with Knightslayer" theory all over again. (Point being, this was an outcry back at Knightslayer launch, and no one seemed to understand that just the Heavy Attack from those 10 people would be enough to kill anyone).

So to put it straight;

Wether or not it stacks is utterly and completely irrelevant, since receiving that amount of damage from multiple opponents, will have you killed before you even feel the Sloads ticking.

There is only two issues with Sloads; It should have a 2 second cooldown period (active 6 sec, again at 8 sec) and it should not break cloak. Everything else is just fine, and is a L2P issue all around.

Fighting 4 players doesn't mean you die. There are plenty of scenarios where you can survive the damage and disengage, namely when the 4 player's aren't good and there is LoS available. No amount of lacking skill on the opponents side and available LoS opportunities will save you from 4 Sload procs though.

In reality, that's just the Shieldbreaker argument over and over - "set is balanced because you would have died anyway". You defend a badly designed mechanic by saying it doesn't matter anyway. Which immediately begs the question why we need the badly designed mechanic in the first place.

Edit: As for not breaking cloak, why shouldn't it? So NBs can just happily ignore another source of damage everyone else has to deal with? If it's staying in the game everyone should equally have to deal with it.

Your first argument is agains procsets in general. Not sloads. You are talking about 4 skillless people killing with procs. Again, there is difference between taking damage actively, enough to proc sload, and then "fighting" (LOS) them. You do not survice 4 mediocre players applying real pressure. "No amount of lacking skill on the opponents side and available LoS opportunities will save you from 4 Sload procs though." is just not true. It is 10% on damage. If you are effectively LoS on 4 potatoes, they will NOT be able to stack it on you.

I am not defending Sloads in regards to how it goes through shields. I am bashing the crying over the fact that it stacks.

For cloak, they should of course take damage, no doubt. But it should not prevent cloaking / pull out of cloak.

akray21

Disagree. It is not balanced in 1v1 situations, especially in no CP environments when healing is significantly reduced. I don't even want to step into BGs because this one set. It's worse than Viper was back in the day.

Emma_Overload

raasdal wrote: »

This again?

This entire argument is invalid from the start and always has been. It does not matter one bit if it stacks or not. EVERYTHING stacks, and so it should.

I have mentioned it before, but i will repeat it untill this silly argument goes away;

If 4 people are stacking Sloads on you, the Sloads proc is the least of your worries. For these guys to proc Sloads on you, they will be damaging you (10% chance on damage, remember?). So no matter WHAT they stack on you, you will be dead.

This is the "10 people with Knightslayer" theory all over again. (Point being, this was an outcry back at Knightslayer launch, and no one seemed to understand that just the Heavy Attack from those 10 people would be enough to kill anyone).

So to put it straight;

Wether or not it stacks is utterly and completely irrelevant, since receiving that amount of damage from multiple opponents, will have you killed before you even feel the Sloads ticking.

There is only two issues with Sloads; It should have a 2 second cooldown period (active 6 sec, again at 8 sec) and it should not break cloak. Everything else is just fine, and is a L2P issue all around.

HAHAHA... you just had to slip that in at the end. Breaking cloak is the best reason for running this cancerous set. Take that away and you better nerf Shield Breaker, too, because Sorcs are going to riot!

Feanor

@raasdal

Maybe it helps if I try to be more succinct.

I can try to mitigate any damage those 4 players put out. Depending on the skill of the players and my defensive ability, that works or works not. The skill of the players and the defensive ability is taken out of this equation if you allow Oblivion damage to stack. The 10% proc chance is misleading. It really procs on any damage (even siege damage). It's very easy to proc.

Hutch679

akray21 wrote: »

Disagree. It is not balanced in 1v1 situations, especially in no CP environments when healing is significantly reduced. I don't even want to step into BGs because this one set. It's worse than Viper was back in the day.

Just put on more healing skills. Stam sorc? Troll king, heavy armor, vigor. Stam dk? Fragmented shield, volatile armor, vigor should easily outheal it. Stam warden? Vigor, forward momentum, leeching vines or green lotus. Mag dk? Rapid regen, flame lash, burning embers, cauterize, shattering rocks. Mag sorc? You're fooked... naw jk lol rapid regen, healing ward, power surge, dark conversion. Templar? Lol BoL. Not familiar with playing nightblades.... just means you gotta slot more heals.

raasdal

akray21 wrote: »

Disagree. It is not balanced in 1v1 situations, especially in no CP environments when healing is significantly reduced. I don't even want to step into BGs because this one set. It's worse than Viper was back in the day.

Sloads is litterally the almost exact same damage as Viper's is now. Only difference is, that it goes through shields and breaks cloak. On most targets, Viper will tick for 600 / second. Sloads is 800 sec. That is NO CP numbers. In CP, they will be even.

So unless you are a Shielder or Blocker, there is absolutely no argument for saying Sloads is OP in a 1v1, unless you ALSO think that Viper is equally OP.

It generally seems like no one is actually able to make an unbiased judgement of raw damage output, and compare to other relevant procsets - and thereby realize that what they thought they had a problem with (the damage, the stacking, the shieldbreaking etc.) is not really the underlying problem....

But lets stay on point. This was about wether or not it is broken because of the fact it will stack.

TheNuminous1

Mureel wrote: »

Yeah shield stacking turtlers NEEDED a good sload to the face tbh.

ewwwwwww I would pay a LOT of gold to not get Sloadbagged. The nightmares......

Solariken

Yeah that's a fair proposal. It essentially would have the same sort of power ceiling as Wizard's Riposte which is a REALLY strong set but becomes significantly less valuable when more than one ally is running it.

raasdal

Feanor wrote: »

@raasdal

Maybe it helps if I try to be more succinct.

I can try to mitigate any damage those 4 players put out. Depending on the skill of the players and my defensive ability, that works or works not. The skill of the players and the defensive ability is taken out of this equation if you allow Oblivion damage to stack. The 10% proc chance is misleading. It really procs on any damage (even siege damage). It's very easy to proc.

I fully understand what you are saying. And i also fully understand the proc conditions and how easy it is to apply.

But my point is this;

What is the difference between those 4 players stacking Viper or Sloads ?
What is the difference between those 4 players "stacking" Oblivion Enchants or Sloads?

Your problem (Sorc) is not the fact that it can be stacked. Because if that was really the problem, you should / would also be calling for Viper's to not be stacking and a GLOBAL cooldown on Oblivion Enchants. Those 4 people can put MORE damage on you with an Infused Torugs Oblivion Enchant, than they can with Sloads. And just as easily.

So my point to you is, that your problem is with Oblivion Damage in general, and how it removes your main defensive mechanic (shields) and NOT wether or not it stacks.

And believe it or not, i do agree. Oblivion damage is bad and should not be in the game. But Sloads stacking is not a problem in itself.

Vaoh

raasdal wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@raasdal

Maybe it helps if I try to be more succinct.

I can try to mitigate any damage those 4 players put out. Depending on the skill of the players and my defensive ability, that works or works not. The skill of the players and the defensive ability is taken out of this equation if you allow Oblivion damage to stack. The 10% proc chance is misleading. It really procs on any damage (even siege damage). It's very easy to proc.

I fully understand what you are saying. And i also fully understand the proc conditions and how easy it is to apply.

But my point is this;

What is the difference between those 4 players stacking Viper or Sloads ?
What is the difference between those 4 players "stacking" Oblivion Enchants or Sloads?

Your problem (Sorc) is not the fact that it can be stacked. Because if that was really the problem, you should / would also be calling for Viper's to not be stacking and a GLOBAL cooldown on Oblivion Enchants. Those 4 people can put MORE damage on you with an Infused Torugs Oblivion Enchant, than they can with Sloads. And just as easily.

So my point to you is, that your problem is with Oblivion Damage in general, and how it removes your main defensive mechanic (shields) and NOT wether or not it stacks.

And believe it or not, i do agree. Oblivion damage is bad and should not be in the game. But Sloads stacking is not a problem in itself.

The difference here is that there is no either or - you can use Sloads AND Infused Oblivion enchants. Enchants are dodgeable and although strong, not too detrimental in their current state. Oblivion enchants alone were *already* a problem. Oblivion Damage in itself is horrible for PvP in such large amounts through super easy procs.

Back in the day Viper was broken OP. Solo play was almost impossible (unless you were a Stam NB also using it lol) because the burst put out by even mediocre players was now high. After the nerf (current version) it became an okay set with mediocre set bonuses. Nothing special. The damage is not too high since it’s a DoT builds using it are kind of bit gimped in their other damage. Sure a group can all use it, but they would have hurt you more by simply stacking damage the normal way. No group of noobs will farm out Viper for such a small advantage when grouped vs 1 target. Viper’s is weak and completely mitigatable.

But Sloads? Sloads is crafted. Sloads has good set bonuses. The proc also ignores EVERYTHING including Battle Spirit. This makes the DoT much more powerful, and your main sources of defense whether shields/temporary Major Protection from Ult/whatever will fail to stop it. If a few Sload procs stack on you the only way to survive is excessive healing which some classes are not even capable of, especially when a CP-buffed Major Defile is on you.

If you are a Mag Sorc and a few Sload procs stack on you, your only means of survival will become to spam Healing Ward or you will die. Will Sorcs need to slot Blessing of Restoration now to counter one set? Rapid Regen alone is not enough to save you from more than one proc. Surge is also a terrible heal when you are pressured and won’t proc at all when spamming shields to save yourself. Plus with the need to slot Rapid Regen, finding room on your bars for any other non-essential skill is a nightmare.
Why have you been put in such a Magicka-costly, defensive state of spamming Healing Ward you might ask? Is it a really good player focusing you within the group of bad players? Nope, the answer is a new armor proc. And if they put any more pressure on you (why would enemies stop attacking?) then you are dead. Throw in a Shieldbreaker too just for lolz. They can now 100% hardcounter your defense. Oh and if you have Major Defile applied you are deeeeeead. All skill involved is gone. Activate Resto Ult, Streak through your targets and get tf out of there or get hardcountered once your Ult expires.

In the past, Shieldbreaker would only provide an advantage vs shielded opponents which is not very enticing since you are gimped vs others. Sloads provides that hardcounter but now without the condition of Shieldbreaker.

What if you’re a Stam build especially in Medium Armor? Do you think your HoTs will save you vs Major Defile and a few Sload Procs? Nope. You’re screwed because Sload procced on you.

Oh and if you’re a NB you can’t even Cloak now xD ZOS is literally favoring procs over player skill.

Sloads should not exist. Oblivion Damage should never be high enough to make any noticeable difference in a fight imo. Totally broken mechanic.

Waffennacht

Either everything stacks or nothing stacks. Called mechanics; ZoS is already too inconsistent

akray21

Hutch679 wrote: »

akray21 wrote: »

Disagree. It is not balanced in 1v1 situations, especially in no CP environments when healing is significantly reduced. I don't even want to step into BGs because this one set. It's worse than Viper was back in the day.

Just put on more healing skills. Stam sorc? Troll king, heavy armor, vigor. Stam dk? Fragmented shield, volatile armor, vigor should easily outheal it. Stam warden? Vigor, forward momentum, leeching vines or green lotus. Mag dk? Rapid regen, flame lash, burning embers, cauterize, shattering rocks. Mag sorc? You're fooked... naw jk lol rapid regen, healing ward, power surge, dark conversion. Templar? Lol BoL. Not familiar with playing nightblades.... just means you gotta slot more heals.

I run a heavy armor stamblade with Blood Spawn and I have 4 healing abilities slotted (no invisibility)...
1. Vigor
2. Dark Cloak
3. Forward Momentum
4. Siphoning Attacks

This is a fairly defensive build that works in nearly every situation, but...

Major defile + Sload + 1-2 DoTs + Skoria/Selene's/Zaan = More damage than I can heal through (while playing defensively).

TheYKcid

Waffennacht wrote: »

Either everything stacks or nothing stacks. Called mechanics; ZoS is already too inconsistent

Not entirely; buffs and debuffs, for instance, do not stack.

I wonder if that would be a workable solution—turning the Sload proc into an applied debuff?

Multiple players putting it on a target would be able to refresh the debuff and keep the damage ticks rolling, but the damage wouldn't stack-up like it currently does.

exeeter702

Idk.. maybe create a new debuff called doom, which then change sloads set to apply doom to the target.

Minno

Change the 5pc to say "deal lighting+physical DMG per second for x seconds".

Domihaus/stormfist operates in this manner, so it makes no sense that a hybrid dot set was given Oblivion DMG without clear balance compensation (and clearly the set was suppose to replace acuity for hybrid friendly set otherwise why the same Stam/mag stats on the other pieces?)

Own

At least let me Cloak as a nightblade