[Poll] Universal Difficulty Slider -- Hardcore Thought Experiment

AuldWolf · June 2018

I want to run a thought experiment to make a point and discover the truth, here.

The Hardcore Claim

All that's desired is more difficulty, if more difficulty is provided then no one would ever ask for anything else. It's just that the content is too easy, and we want it to be more difficult.

My Belief

ESO's hardcore contingent doesn't actually want a difficulty option, what they desire are unique things which they can lord over other people to prove their superiority. An attitude that really does belong more in EVE Online than a 'themepark' MMO like this one. They have no interest in mere difficulty, that's not really what this is about. It's about being superior at the expense of everyone else, even at the expense of the game's health.

The Universal Difficulty Setting

This is my proposed solution and it's the best possible one if the hardcore contingent aren't being disingenuous. In this scenario, the gear and drops remain the same, with no unique gear or cosmetic rewards to lord over people.

What changes is in the scaling. By dialling up the difficulty setting, the scaling would place caps on stats, and reduce the efficacy and potential of items. So a piece of epic gear would -- on the hardest difficulty -- be similar to a piece of white gear but with perks (such as set bonuses and whatnot). Additionally, the damage taken by scaled players will be higher, and incoming heals will do less for them. This allows a more even playing field where a hardcore player can feel challenged, and a 'lesser player' (in their eyes) would still be effective in a group scenario. A good thing, yes?

Also, with the addition of the Universal Difficulty Setting, trials and group dungeons would also scale according to both the setting and the number of players entering. So, for example, the Trial of Lorkhaj could be soloed by someone who isn't using a cookie-cutter build. If this isn't about holding onto unique things for themselves, then this can't be objectionable.

Let's Begin the Testing

I've included a poll so that people can vote on whether this is an adequate solution. I think that the votes and the replies will be very telling. If the response is positive then we have something that we can all agree on, as it doesn't harm casual players in any way. If not? It shows that this is about exclusivity and superiority, and wanting more venues to exercise exclusivity and superiority over 'lesser players.' And that attitude isn't one that should be tolerated by an MMO developer considering that the hardcore minority is tiny compared to the casual majority.

Though before we get into whether the hardcore population is a minrity? Consider that areas meant for hardcore players (trials, world bosses, Craglorn, et cetera) are generally dead zones, devoid of players. Then compare that against even an older DLC zone like Vvardenfell or Wrothgar.

Really, though, this is just to see whether my cynicism is misplaced. Perhaps the ESO hardcore contingent really is more decent, in which case an apology is in order. I want to know. As I have mentioned in prior posts, I've been playing MMOs since Neverwinter (no, not the BioWare one, Obsidian one, nor the Cryptic one), I've been at it for a long time and I've started to notice some fairly commonplace repeating patterns.

So let's find out what's going on here.

The Poll

Hardcore players, is the Universal Difficulty Setting what you want?

AuldWolf · June 2018

Just to clear a few things up in case it's necessary.

This means that the world will be tuned for an average difficulty, similar to what it is now, which will include dialling back world bosses. World bosses, of course, will be much harder if a higher difficulty is used.

Why is it bad to do it any other way? Difficulty creep.

If you want better gear, you'll end up feeling that everything is too easy again. So then the difficulty needs to be tweaked to suit your new gear. Then you'll want better rewards, to incentivise the difficulty. Then you'll want higher difficulty as the game will be too easy. And on it goes, ad nauseum.

That's what hardcore players in every other game I've played want, and they don't understand why it's destructive. Is this true of ESO's hardcore? Are they also lacking in awareness in this way and are simply looking for better, nicer things for themselves without realising where that road leads?

That's what I want to find out.

If it really is just difficulty that's desired and not difficulty creep? I will apologise. Truth is, I don't think it is.

AlienatedGoat · June 2018

No. I'm a hardcore player and the Universal Difficulty Setting isn't viable for me.

"In this scenario, the gear and drops remain the same, with no unique gear or cosmetic rewards to lord over people."

Nope. I'm good. If there is increased risk, I want increased reward.

Kram8ion · June 2018

Take a piece or two of armour off if too hard core put one back on
Problem solved

WaltherCarraway · June 2018

No. I'm a hardcore player and the Universal Difficulty Setting isn't viable for me.

Phage wrote: »

"In this scenario, the gear and drops remain the same, with no unique gear or cosmetic rewards to lord over people."

Nope. I'm good. If there is increased risk, I want increased reward.

this.

VaranisArano · June 2018

Why not just wear white quality gear, no CP, and no food/drink buff?

If I wanted to play ESO overland quests on "difficult" mode, that's how I'd do it.

Acrolas · June 2018

Some people are still expecting the scaling experience of the single player series to translate to the online game. But it's always going to be a paradox, wanting harder world content without seeming weaker relative to other players in the same instance.

ESO's progression system is souvenirs. Go there, do that, get the t-shirt.
If you need a more challenging system, it's going to have to be found in another gaming product designed around the type of vertical progression you're interested in.

Lysette · June 2018

@AuldWolf I think you are pretty spot on with your analysis - this whole "it's too easy thing" has nothing to do with them wanting more difficulty for themselves to make it more challenging - they just want something to feel even more elite. I agree with this belief of yours.

Why you think that such an attitude belongs more into EVE is beside me - maybe some minor ganker might think like that, but an experienced EVE player knows, that there is no such thing in EVE as superiority as an individual, EVE is far too complex and too diverse to even come to this idea by any good reason - if someone believes, he is superior in EVE, he is highly likely that his fortune will come to a sudden end pretty soon - because an attitude like that will get you killed in EVE rather quickly.

What gets you far in EVE are social skills as a human being and a true talent in leadership - but not an attitude of superiority. Being able to do well in a team is a start and any good team player knows, that an attitude of superiority is not helpful, but will hinder to be successful as a group - even more when it comes to larger organisations and alliances, and that is what EVE is about.So an attitude of superiority has no place in EVE, if you want to become a really good and respected player. Of course there are these killboard junkies as well - but none of them has any superior role in EVE - by very good reasons.

ESO on the other side does neither have the tools nor the community to get anything up and running like an EVE alliance. And that is IMO due to this attitude of superiority of the elite, which gets them nowhere in the long run. Onto a "leader board" maybe, a nice name for a bragging list, but these people do not have the talents or abilities to be a true successful leader.

mesmerizedish · June 2018

I don't think "universal" means what you think it means.

idk · June 2018

Not going into that the poll is mere entertainment value as I expect the OP already knew it cannot provide valuable information outside of entertainment based on how he set it up.

I will say that OP assumes that such an idea as he proposes is easy or worth the effort for Zos to design and employ.

Case in point, Trials and dungeons already have a difficulty slider of sorts. Normal, vet and HM. Three difficulties and being that a majority of players are not the type that want to be that guy who can clear the HMs there is little reason to add more difficulty, especially in the trials on HM.

Further, vet trials are required to remain constant in their difficulties for the purpose of scores since we do have competitive PvE in this game.

It is easy to set various difficulties in an instanced environment. Zos has not employed instanced environments as most is in the open world. There the difficulty slider is more challenging. Essentially it is a slider that would have to nerf the character in every way. Every aspect of damage and resistance to damage would have to be calculated per character in the game and how to do that without loading up the servers is the challenge.

I realize the first response would be have it done client side. Zos has moved much of happens to the server side after the use of the cheat engine. Sending something like this to the client side could benefit someone trying to find something to exploit.

Basically, in the end, I do not see Zos giving serious entertainment to the idea of a slider. Best option would be a switch to turn and turn off CP, but I do not see anything outside of that given serious thought.

DanteYoda · June 2018

What if you aren't a hardcore player and don't want a difficulty slider..

Gythral · June 2018

Uviryth · June 2018

In Star Wars The Old Republic you can choose between Storymode, Hardmode and Elitemode for almost every content in the game.
Its one of the things I miss in other mmos.

TelvanniWizard · June 2018

No. I'm a hardcore player and the Universal Difficulty Setting isn't viable for me.

0/100% seems pretty clear right now.

ArchMikem · June 2018

AuldWolf wrote: »

All that's desired is more difficulty, if more difficulty is provided then no one would ever ask for anything else. It's just that the content is too easy, and we want it to be more difficult.

I wish people would stop making that generalized claim. The content is not inherently easy, it's just easy to the majority because the majority are veteran players with hundreds of Champion Points. To the average low level player even overland mobs can be a challenge that takes several minutes to bypass whereas people like the OP click twice and are good.

What you should be saying, is you want things to be even HARDER, not just hard up from easy.

Ozstryker · June 2018

I think the suggestion that "players can choose to take more dmg, and heals are less effective" On it's own would probably be enough.

For example, I have a couple of characters that are used only for overland content, they have very little resistance, low health, poor recovery, and use low lvl white weapons..... squishy AF!...... this is my difficulty setting!
What it means is that I have to actually use a little strategy, block and interrupt, control resources and use potions for their proper purposes...(when was the last time you chugged a wep dmg pot to beat a delve boss, or made sure u had food before taking on a dolmen?)
I cannot understand how folk run about in bis gear, fully provisioned, and complain that overland is too easy...

A.I could definitely be improved though...

Uviryth · June 2018

In all honesty, mobs do have way too little HP at the moment. They often dont even survive a weaponswap, they just evaporate.

Aliyavana · June 2018

Yes. I'm a hardcore player and the Universal Difficulty Seting is what I'd want to improve my experience.

I didn't read the op but id like a hardcore questing mode. Old craglorn was nice to solo at high cp because the mobs would punish you if you didn't kill in the right order or ccd

Aznox · June 2018

No. I'm a hardcore player and the Universal Difficulty Setting isn't viable for me.

Sorry OP, i just want a veteran overland, not for challenge but for immersion while questing with a min-maxed character.

Anything more will bring back Diablo III memories and the bad taste of artificially increased game content.

Linaleah · June 2018

I'm not a hardcore player (exact opposite actualy), but I disagree that should be no extra rewards. they just shouldn't be the kind of rewards that are purely to lord over other players and look down on them fro not having those rewards.

imagine... finishing a mission on hardest mode - awards gold upgrade materials. particularly difficult ones - award jewelry upgrade material. it is now most certainly worth doing, because guaranteed otherwise long to grind plating is most certainly useful. so its not a unique epeen measuring reward but still very much a useful reward.

starkerealm · June 2018

AuldWolf wrote: »

ESO's hardcore contingent doesn't actually want a difficulty option, what they desire are unique things which they can lord over other people to prove their superiority. An attitude that really does belong more in EVE Online than a 'themepark' MMO like this one. They have no interest in mere difficulty, that's not really what this is about. It's about being superior at the expense of everyone else, even at the expense of the game's health.

I don't think you're completely wrong here. But, as someone who does engage with the endgame content specifically to get those perks, it's not about lording anything over anyone else. I don't want the necromancer skin to put others down, I just want to be able to hide vampirism on some of my characters.

With that said, I think there are better ways to cultivate difficulty. In particular note how normal and hard mode boss fights for most dungeons incorporate new mechanics into the fights rather than simply pumping up the numbers and slowing down the fight.

Just because hitting something once or twice to kill it doesn't make having to hit it ten times to kill it, doesn't make the fight five to ten times more fun. It just drags out the fight.

Now, we do need some stat padding when you're dealing with players who can honestly pull high damage. That's not in question. And, applying a handicap to that player is a good way to do that. But, that won't seriously challenge most, you need to actually look at more complex encounter elements to keep those players entertained and engaged.

There are players, legitimately, who just want to be able to slot Tick-Tock Tormentor to prove to everyone in the area that they're better than the plebs. But, there are a lot of players who legitimately look at overland content and get bored. It's not about superiority, it's that they have gotten to a place, in the game, where that content fails to challenge them. For them, the request for something more challenging is legitimate.

This leads to something else. If you tell me you'll make my life more difficult for no benefit, I'll pass, thanks. I'll take being bored over irritated. Gating rewards behind harder content isn't just about being able to lord your victories over others, it also provides a reason to set that harder path ahead of yourself.

The other problem is, if there's no reward, a lot of players will take the easier path, at the expense of their experience. Given the option, you will be more likely to play it safe and bore yourself than take a risk for no gain.

The Elder Scrolls Online

[Poll] Universal Difficulty Slider -- Hardcore Thought Experiment

[Poll] Universal Difficulty Slider -- Hardcore Thought Experiment 19 votes