Action Taken for Veteran Asylum Sanctorium Exploit

DPShiro · May 2018

BANK_IT_HERE wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

and lmfao over 1k lul

"Class Representative" Fancy.

As far as I know “Glitcher” isn’t a class, nor does it need representing.

Vaoh · May 2018

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

The people who say that it is OK to exploit this because it is ZOS' fault for having a bug in the game? That is like saying it is OK to steal all your neighbors stuff because he thought he locked the door but the lock was busted. "You can't arrest me for robbery, officer! It is my neighbor's fault for not having a better lock! He should have had the locksmith out here faster to fix it. You should be arresting my neighbor, not me!"

There are some areas that are open to debate. "Do you think ZOS intended us to be able to sneak past this trash?" "Do you think ZOS intended this boss mechanic to be cleansed via purge?"

But the vAS exploit is not open to debate. No sane or rational person would think that was working as intended. If something is clearly not working as intended, and it results in trivializing difficult endgame content, don't do it.

^^^^^
Adding on to this, if your “strategy” for defeating a trial boss involves running outside of map and attacking the boss from there, then killing them a manner that can be done solo..... expect it to be bannable lol.

de_naaimachine · May 2018

Since it is supposed to be fixed now; what was the glitch they used? Run outside the map and kill the boss? I think it is very hard to do that and not notice that you are exploiting.

ynimma · May 2018

Correct me if I'm wrong: permaban for an "exploit" like this would be overkilling. Not just in a moral sense but in legal sense as well.
In a game the possibilities of a gamer is controlled by the code. What the official code allows you is legal to do as part of the game content and features. If the game doesn't want me to jump off a cliff, an invisbile wall will be put there to prevent me doing so. If the game doesn't want to allow me to steal from sacks in a fence, it will not be clickable.
Everything I can do in a game, the code is responsible for it.

If there's a glitch in the game and the player plays on it, it's again the responsibility of the code and the coder. ZOS can not redirect this responsibility to the player through shady legal text called "terms and conditions". A computer game is a product which also falls under the legal regulations of trading so it has to be fit for purpose in any given moment and should not be misused. However misusing it does not mean one can be deprived from the accessibility (especially not permanently) maybe losing warranty.

In this case I see no harm done to the game community and also this is not an illegal use of the program code as the code has not been breached, nor hacked. The player played what the code allowed him to do without using any third party code (like with add-ons, khm, which are now feature for some reason even if it affects everyone else's gameplay big deal) or without affecting the game of anyone else in the virtual world.

So I'd reconsider this overly reactive permaban otherwise any given player could successfully run a lawsuit against ZOS any time.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO · May 2018

ynimma wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong: permaban for an "exploit" like this would be overkilling. Not just in a moral sense but in legal sense as well.
In a game the possibilities of a gamer is controlled by the code. What the official code allows you is legal to do as part of the game content and features. If the game doesn't want me to jump off a cliff, an invisbile wall will be put there to prevent me doing so. If the game doesn't want to allow me to steal from sacks in a fence, it will not be clickable.
Everything I can do in a game, the code is responsible for it.
...

Did you ever read the Terms of Service?
I did. You should before one shotting people with a text wall.

Turelus · May 2018

de_naaimachine wrote: »

Since it is supposed to be fixed now; what was the glitch they used? Run outside the map and kill the boss? I think it is very hard to do that and not notice that you are exploiting.

That's why people are not saying "I didn't know it was an exploit" but falling back on "well ZOS left there" those who partake in these kinds of exploits know full well it's not playing as intended but sadly we're in a time now where the culture is to abuse rather than take moral high grounds.

ynimma · May 2018

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

ynimma wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong: permaban for an "exploit" like this would be overkilling. Not just in a moral sense but in legal sense as well.
In a game the possibilities of a gamer is controlled by the code. What the official code allows you is legal to do as part of the game content and features. If the game doesn't want me to jump off a cliff, an invisbile wall will be put there to prevent me doing so. If the game doesn't want to allow me to steal from sacks in a fence, it will not be clickable.
Everything I can do in a game, the code is responsible for it.
...

Did you ever read the Terms of Service?
I did. You should before one shotting people with a text wall.

I did.
And how do you think a terms of service text can override the trading standards' regulations?
There are many ways to deal with a situation like this in ratio of what happened. Erasing the achievement and retrieving the reward could just make that proportionally, sending out the message of "hey, there's no point exploiting because you'll not get anything with it".
I'm also against cheating, no question about that. But there are accounts here backed up with a lot of payment and that makes it a legal issue rather than a moralistic local tribal justice.
So again, I'd suggest to reconsider the way it's been done. Permaban is hugely disproportional. There are many many ways to demotivate cheaters to exploit the game without getting into a legal issue.
The terms "cheat" and "exploit" are interpretative terms, there's no proper definition to them for each specific cases which makes the Terms of Service text underdog to the general trading standard regulations. And as there was no hack, no breach to the code, there was no violation to the sofware nor to the service, there was legally no action taken on which basis ZOS can exercise these bans.

Lazarus_Rising · May 2018

ynimma wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong: permaban for an "exploit" like this would be overkilling. Not just in a moral sense but in legal sense as well.
In a game the possibilities of a gamer is controlled by the code. What the official code allows you is legal to do as part of the game content and features. If the game doesn't want me to jump off a cliff, an invisbile wall will be put there to prevent me doing so. If the game doesn't want to allow me to steal from sacks in a fence, it will not be clickable.
Everything I can do in a game, the code is responsible for it.

If there's a glitch in the game and the player plays on it, it's again the responsibility of the code and the coder. ZOS can not redirect this responsibility to the player through shady legal text called "terms and conditions". A computer game is a product which also falls under the legal regulations of trading so it has to be fit for purpose in any given moment and should not be misused. However misusing it does not mean one can be deprived from the accessibility (especially not permanently) maybe losing warranty.

In this case I see no harm done to the game community and also this is not an illegal use of the program code as the code has not been breached, nor hacked. The player played what the code allowed him to do without using any third party code (like with add-ons, khm, which are now feature for some reason even if it affects everyone else's gameplay big deal) or without affecting the game of anyone else in the virtual world.

So I'd reconsider this overly reactive permaban otherwise any given player could successfully run a lawsuit against ZOS any time.

wanna see how this lawsuit will end. LOL

Vaoh · May 2018

de_naaimachine wrote: »

Since it is supposed to be fixed now; what was the glitch they used? Run outside the map and kill the boss? I think it is very hard to do that and not notice that you are exploiting.

Yup. Same as most exploits.

Find a way to stand on top of one of the many invisible walls, then jump out of map -> kill boss. What’s weird is that most bosses will simply reset if this happens. So far both of the major trial exploits that have happened, meaning the vMoL and vAS exploits, only worked because bosses did not reset.

I tried this same thing on other bosses before such as 4th boss vHoF (after sending in vid of my method the out of map path was patched) and they reset. Pretty sure all issues could have been avoided if ZOS just made it so detecting a player outside the normal walking area of the boss fight during combat teleported them in. We see this is vAS already, just only in front of the boss arena. There should be a 50 meter or so teleport range in a circle around each boss arena.

Anne_Firehawk · May 2018

Cinbri wrote: »

Key words - "the unfairly-earned Skin will be removed from the account."
Should be done such kind of treatment long time ago regarding all exploits.

+++++++++++++++++++
Finally something that hurts those that did NOT get banned. I like it.

Turelus · May 2018

ynimma wrote: »

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

ynimma wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong: permaban for an "exploit" like this would be overkilling. Not just in a moral sense but in legal sense as well.
In a game the possibilities of a gamer is controlled by the code. What the official code allows you is legal to do as part of the game content and features. If the game doesn't want me to jump off a cliff, an invisbile wall will be put there to prevent me doing so. If the game doesn't want to allow me to steal from sacks in a fence, it will not be clickable.
Everything I can do in a game, the code is responsible for it.
...

Did you ever read the Terms of Service?
I did. You should before one shotting people with a text wall.

And how do you think a terms of service text can ovveride the trading standards' regulations?
There are many ways to deal with a situation like this in ratio of what happened. Erasing the achievement and retrieving the reward could just make that proportionally, sending out the message of "hey, there's no point exploiting because you'll not get anything with it".
I'm also against cheating, no question about that. But there are accounts here backed up with a lot of payment and that makes it a legal issue rather than a moralistic local tribal justice.
So again, I'd suggest to reconsider the way it's been done. There are many many ways to demotivate cheaters to exploit the game without getting into a legal issue.

The thing is there is a ToS/EULA which everyone agrees to so it doesn't become a legal issue.
Normally yes there should be code in place to stop cheats/exploits (invisible walls etc.) however the ToS is there because developers are humans and mistakes and oversights happen.
We as customers agree to a set of rules that should we find an oversight which gives us an unintended advantage we will not abuse that but instead report it so it can be fixed. We also agree that if we don't follow that rule then ZOS may take any action they with with our accounts and we have no legal standing against that.

If there were legal grounds to fight against a ban due to exploiting it probably would have happened already in one of the many MMO games that use pretty much copy/paste ToS/EULA.
ZOS has been VERY lenient in the past with exploiters, so much so it created a culture of "cheat all you want, no harm will come" and only now in the last year does it feel like they've stepped up their game to really fight against this culture.
Normally those who are first time offenders or didn't spread, abuse and profit from an exploit with clear intension only get a slap on the wrist from ZOS, it's those real bad seeds which end up with the permanent bans.

If people don't want bans it's pretty simple, when you see someone abuse a bug/exploit you say "I don't want to be part of this" leave the group, submit a bug/exploit report and continue playing the game.

Meld777 · May 2018

ynimma wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong: permaban for an "exploit" like this would be overkilling. Not just in a moral sense but in legal sense as well.
[...]
So I'd reconsider this overly reactive permaban otherwise any given player could successfully run a lawsuit against ZOS any time.

That's not how legal systems work. Exploiting is defined in the ToS. Also, those blaming ZOS, don't underestimate the time some exploiters invest into finding exploits. We're talking 12h+ a day of trying all kinds of different stuff, combinations of class skills and in-game items. There is no QA team in the world that could ever beat that. On a side note, a friend of mine is currently running a lawsuit against ZOS. But it has nothing to do with exploiting. And I doubt any exploiter could ever win against ZOS. If they're able to back-track 1000+ accounts on an exploit, their logs are very solid.

Ley wrote: »

Waiting to see all the exploiters flood to the forums to complain that they were wrongfully banned/suspended or blame ZOS for allowing the exploit to exist in the first place.

There is this saying that the "forums are 1% of the ESO population." A year ago or so, there was this dev post that confirmed it's actually somewhere around 0.01%. So if 1000 people exploited, chances that they are on the forums are pretty slim.

Turelus · May 2018

Meld777 wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

Waiting to see all the exploiters flood to the forums to complain that they were wrongfully banned/suspended or blame ZOS for allowing the exploit to exist in the first place.

There is this saying that the "forums are 1% of the ESO population." A year ago or so, there was this dev post that confirmed it's actually somewhere around 0.01%. So if 1000 people exploited, chances that they are on the forums are pretty slim.

I'm not a dev but I made a dumb forum thread about it a while back (warning, terrible math)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/358277/forums-is-1-of-games-population

Lunatic_Dizzy · May 2018

Ha! I was just ranting because of bots. So I'm very happy to see them dispensing justice somewhere. Smack dem evil-doers wit yo Dawnbreaker, ZOS!

Forsakiin · May 2018

Looks like they are perma banning those who have tried to sell the skin via the exploit/have previous offences, and suspending the 1000 people who are first time offenders until Summerset on console. Fair judgement IMO, I think getting rid of completely everyone would have been a bit extreme.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO · May 2018

ynimma wrote: »

I did.
And how do you think a terms of service text can override the trading standards' regulations?
There are many ways to deal with a situation like this in ratio of what happened. Erasing the achievement and retrieving the reward could just make that proportionally, sending out the message of "hey, there's no point exploiting because you'll not get anything with it".
I'm also against cheating, no question about that. But there are accounts here backed up with a lot of payment and that makes it a legal issue rather than a moralistic local tribal justice.
So again, I'd suggest to reconsider the way it's been done. Permaban is hugely disproportional. There are many many ways to demotivate cheaters to exploit the game without getting into a legal issue.
The terms "cheat" and "exploit" are interpretative terms, there's no proper definition to them for each specific cases which makes the Terms of Service text underdog to the general trading standard regulations. And as there was no hack, no breach to the code, there was no violation to the sofware nor to the service, there was legally no action taken on which basis ZOS can exercise these bans.

So yo uare fully aware that by exploiting the game like that not only violates a contract you signed. You are also damaging the reputation of a Company and a Product, affecting its present and future sales. You are also damaging the population of the game who is not exploiting the game. And you can see that both in game zone chats, and in the support forums. Indirectly this affect several ZOS Departments (CC, Data, Development, Legal, ...), which must dedicate resources to handle the issue.

So, who's going to pay for all of this?

They are not just exploiting a bug.

Think.

ccfeeling · May 2018

Ban them all

ynimma · May 2018

Turelus wrote: »

ynimma wrote: »

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

ynimma wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong: permaban for an "exploit" like this would be overkilling. Not just in a moral sense but in legal sense as well.
In a game the possibilities of a gamer is controlled by the code. What the official code allows you is legal to do as part of the game content and features. If the game doesn't want me to jump off a cliff, an invisbile wall will be put there to prevent me doing so. If the game doesn't want to allow me to steal from sacks in a fence, it will not be clickable.
Everything I can do in a game, the code is responsible for it.
...

Did you ever read the Terms of Service?
I did. You should before one shotting people with a text wall.

And how do you think a terms of service text can ovveride the trading standards' regulations?
There are many ways to deal with a situation like this in ratio of what happened. Erasing the achievement and retrieving the reward could just make that proportionally, sending out the message of "hey, there's no point exploiting because you'll not get anything with it".
I'm also against cheating, no question about that. But there are accounts here backed up with a lot of payment and that makes it a legal issue rather than a moralistic local tribal justice.
So again, I'd suggest to reconsider the way it's been done. There are many many ways to demotivate cheaters to exploit the game without getting into a legal issue.

The thing is there is a ToS/EULA which everyone agrees to so it doesn't become a legal issue.
Normally yes there should be code in place to stop cheats/exploits (invisible walls etc.) however the ToS is there because developers are humans and mistakes and oversights happen.
We as customers agree to a set of rules that should we find an oversight which gives us an unintended advantage we will not abuse that but instead report it so it can be fixed. We also agree that if we don't follow that rule then ZOS may take any action they with with our accounts and we have no legal standing against that.

If there were legal grounds to fight against a ban due to exploiting it probably would have happened already in one of the many MMO games that use pretty much copy/paste ToS/EULA.
ZOS has been VERY lenient in the past with exploiters, so much so it created a culture of "cheat all you want, no harm will come" and only now in the last year does it feel like they've stepped up their game to really fight against this culture.
Normally those who are first time offenders or didn't spread, abuse and profit from an exploit with clear intension only get a slap on the wrist from ZOS, it's those real bad seeds which end up with the permanent bans.

If people don't want bans it's pretty simple, when you see someone abuse a bug/exploit you say "I don't want to be part of this" leave the group, submit a bug/exploit report and continue playing the game.

That makes sense and again, I'm all up against cheating.
On the other hand it leaves a lot of other question marks to be sorted out on the same basis.
How about mods? They ARE influencing the playfield for everyone and they require third party programming input. Literally it's a hack to mod the base game as there are features becoming accessible and most of them lead to a different playstyle and a different virtual marketplace, etc. Mods DEFINITELY creating in-game advantage over the others and the whole environment. How is that possible to legitimize them as a feature?
Animation cancelling. It's been discussed to death and will be again and again because it shows how sensitive and influential the topic is.
And I'm sure there are other shady areas to list which could well be subject to ToS revisit and they are all phenomena originated from the not perfect program code.
There are seriously double standards applied on the game and the players here which does not help the service to be more professional. Same issues but different measures.
I don't mind saying goodbye to exploiters however I don't mind their exploited "achievements" either as they do not affect my game in any ways. Mods do. AC does.
So the banhammer does not shine to me in this case.

norebb16_ESO · May 2018

Honestly, this whole thing was worth it just to see how cancerous the community is. All these holier than thou "im better than you cause you glitched!" losers need to get a life, for real. Its a video game... If your bearing for your own or someones morality is where theyve exploited a video game, you need to re evaluate your life.. The people that glitched have affected literally nothing in any way and defending the company that has had to do "sorry we broke the game" reward packs to players every other update theyve released in the last year is both hilarious and sad... The skin is cosmetic and the weapons arent great, person i know did it to get rid of the achievements out of the journal since theyre never gonna get a good guild to do it and you dont even get the title or achievements that ACTUALLY show your guild is insane (Or that you and 11 other people need to go outside more)

As i said above, if people where actually profiting: more than reasonable but even temp banning 1100 people is just straight up lazy. Wipe the stuff from the account, warn them to stop messing around and if they have a history of it temp ban or ban but above all else - FIX YOUR CONTENT.

If you want to ban people for exploiting, be consistent with it across the board or dont be surprised people exploit what the devs are to lazy to fix in a game where glitches are a consistent issue players encounter because of their shody work. If you make a show of only banning certain players and never actually address the issue theyre going to run out of players in a dwindling population as it is. Unless summerset draws record numbers or brings back players who stopped long term its not a sustainable business model. Just ask other developers who where know for selling broken content

Turelus · May 2018

ynimma wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

ynimma wrote: »

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

ynimma wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong: permaban for an "exploit" like this would be overkilling. Not just in a moral sense but in legal sense as well.
In a game the possibilities of a gamer is controlled by the code. What the official code allows you is legal to do as part of the game content and features. If the game doesn't want me to jump off a cliff, an invisbile wall will be put there to prevent me doing so. If the game doesn't want to allow me to steal from sacks in a fence, it will not be clickable.
Everything I can do in a game, the code is responsible for it.
...

Did you ever read the Terms of Service?
I did. You should before one shotting people with a text wall.

And how do you think a terms of service text can ovveride the trading standards' regulations?
There are many ways to deal with a situation like this in ratio of what happened. Erasing the achievement and retrieving the reward could just make that proportionally, sending out the message of "hey, there's no point exploiting because you'll not get anything with it".
I'm also against cheating, no question about that. But there are accounts here backed up with a lot of payment and that makes it a legal issue rather than a moralistic local tribal justice.
So again, I'd suggest to reconsider the way it's been done. There are many many ways to demotivate cheaters to exploit the game without getting into a legal issue.

The thing is there is a ToS/EULA which everyone agrees to so it doesn't become a legal issue.
Normally yes there should be code in place to stop cheats/exploits (invisible walls etc.) however the ToS is there because developers are humans and mistakes and oversights happen.
We as customers agree to a set of rules that should we find an oversight which gives us an unintended advantage we will not abuse that but instead report it so it can be fixed. We also agree that if we don't follow that rule then ZOS may take any action they with with our accounts and we have no legal standing against that.

If there were legal grounds to fight against a ban due to exploiting it probably would have happened already in one of the many MMO games that use pretty much copy/paste ToS/EULA.
ZOS has been VERY lenient in the past with exploiters, so much so it created a culture of "cheat all you want, no harm will come" and only now in the last year does it feel like they've stepped up their game to really fight against this culture.
Normally those who are first time offenders or didn't spread, abuse and profit from an exploit with clear intension only get a slap on the wrist from ZOS, it's those real bad seeds which end up with the permanent bans.

If people don't want bans it's pretty simple, when you see someone abuse a bug/exploit you say "I don't want to be part of this" leave the group, submit a bug/exploit report and continue playing the game.

That makes sense and again, I'm all up against cheating.
On the other hand it leaves a lot of other question marks to be sorted out on the same basis.
How about mods? They ARE influencing the playfield for everyone and they require third party programming input. Literally it's a hack to mod the base game as there are features becoming accessible and most of them lead to a different playstyle and a different virtual marketplace, etc. Mods DEFINITELY creating in-game advantage over the others and the whole environment. How is that possible to legitimize them as a feature?
Animation cancelling. It's been discussed to death and will be again and again because it shows how sensitive and influential the topic is.
And I'm sure there are other shady areas to list which could well be subject to ToS revisit and they are all phenomena originated from the not perfect program code.
There are seriously double standards applied on the game and the players here which does not help the service to be more professional. Same issues but different measures.
I don't mind saying goodbye to exploiters however I don't mind their exploited "achievements" either as they do not affect my game in any ways. Mods do. AC does.
So the banhammer does not shine to me in this case.

Mods (or add-ons here) are limited to the games API for the most part and are not allowed to directly influence game actions or manipulate anything. The closest one to cheating I know of is the automation which Lazy Crafting Writs does, everything else is based off information ZOS supplies via an API. Everyone has free access to these as well so any advantage gained can be balanced out unless someone makes the choice to personally refuse using them.
Most of them also never make up for player skill within competitive play.

Animation cancelling isn't cheating and whilst some dislike it there is no case to claim it's any kind of cheat or exploit, especially as ZOS themselves have stated it isn't.

Whilst achievements don't effect YOUR game, they are (especially in the case of trials HM) something which a lot of players work towards and compete over, so it effects THEIR gameplay.

Vaoh · May 2018

norebb16_ESO wrote: »

Honestly, this whole thing was worth it just to see how cancerous the community is. All these holier than thou "im better than you cause you glitched!" losers need to get a life, for real. Its a video game... If your bearing for your own or someones morality is where theyve exploited a video game, you need to re evaluate your life.. The people that glitched have affected literally nothing in any way and defending the company that has had to do "sorry we broke the game" reward packs to players every other update theyve released in the last year is both hilarious and sad... The skin is cosmetic and the weapons arent great, person i know did it to get rid of the achievements out of the journal since theyre never gonna get a good guild to do it and you dont even get the title or achievements that ACTUALLY show your guild is insane (Or that you and 11 other people need to go outside more)

As i said above, if people where actually profiting: more than reasonable but even temp banning 1100 people is just straight up lazy. Wipe the stuff from the account, warn them to stop messing around and if they have a history of it temp ban or ban but above all else - FIX YOUR CONTENT.

If you want to ban people for exploiting, be consistent with it across the board or dont be surprised people exploit what the devs are to lazy to fix in a game where glitches are a consistent issue players encounter because of their shody work. If you make a show of only banning certain players and never actually address the issue theyre going to run out of players in a dwindling population as it is. Unless summerset draws record numbers or brings back players who stopped long term its not a sustainable business model. Just ask other developers who where know for selling broken content

I’d say this banning makes ZOS pretty consistent. Very good on them.

Also I agree, this incident definitely shows how cancerous to the community some people are. People like you, who have zero sense of morality and lack basic knowledge of the TOS. If it’s just a video game you’d think the risk of banning wouldn’t be worth the cosmetic reward.

TheValar85 · May 2018

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Recently, a number of players have been found exploiting Veteran Asylum Sanctorium Hard Mode by exiting the playable area to defeat the boss, earning the Sanctified Silver Skin fraudulently for themselves and other players. This reward is typically earned for completing some of the most challenging content in ESO, and devalues the work of other players who have put in the time and effort to earn it legitimately.

Taking part in this exploit is a violation of the ZeniMax Terms of Service, and as a result, we have just suspended 1,046 accounts and issued a permanent ban to 117 accounts who were found to have undoubtedly taken advantage of the exploit. Suspensions will be held while we conduct a more in-depth investigation of the accounts, which will be completed by time Summerset launches on console with a fix for the exploit on June 5. Additionally, the unfairly-earned Skin will be removed from the account.

It's worth noting that we will perform an additional audit between now and June 5 for any additional accounts to use this exploit, and we will action those accounts as necessary.

Do the same thing in cyrodiil as well please

Thank you

EDIT: i think every account should be prema banned, no excuses anymore.

Shad0wfire99 · May 2018

Rickter wrote: »

get rekt.

If these are some of the people I'm thinking of. . . then some of them paid upwards of $150 USD for that vAS clear.

Folks willing to cheat their way through a videogame, or the amount of people looking for an easy ride - makes me lose faith in the human race. Think about if these are people you might work with in real life, of worse - work FOR.

people with such low moral values theyre willing to cheat the system, or step on others to get to the top. Good riddance.

Yep. And some of those people will continue to sell skin runs on their alt accounts, knowing good and well that the people buying them are gonna get banned. Just like they did the first time around when bans were announced. Actual human garbage.

MajBludd · May 2018

Permanent ban means nothing when they buy a new account and come right back @ZOS_GinaBruno

Turelus · May 2018

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

get rekt.

If these are some of the people I'm thinking of. . . then some of them paid upwards of $150 USD for that vAS clear.

Folks willing to cheat their way through a videogame, or the amount of people looking for an easy ride - makes me lose faith in the human race. Think about if these are people you might work with in real life, of worse - work FOR.

people with such low moral values theyre willing to cheat the system, or step on others to get to the top. Good riddance.

Yep. And some of those people will continue to sell skin runs on their alt accounts, knowing good and well that the people buying them are gonna get banned. Actual human garbage.

People who profit of games developed by others very rarely have a moral code.

Gold sellers are just as bad for using emails, payment information, passwords etc. to socially engineer their way into peoples accounts. Sadly those who buy from them don't seem understand how they're not valued in any way and just money to be had.

Skullstachio · May 2018

I & all the werewolves of Tamriel thank you ZOS for this. We all How-ow-owooooool in celebration to an honourable victory against exploiters.

Merlin13KAGL · May 2018

de_naaimachine wrote: »

Since it is supposed to be fixed now; what was the glitch they used? Run outside the map and kill the boss? I think it is very hard to do that and not notice that you are exploiting.

Considering you have people in CoH II trying like hell to get back on the map, so I'd say this one was pretty obvious.

ynimma wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong: permaban for an "exploit" like this would be overkilling. Not just in a moral sense but in legal sense as well.
In a game the possibilities of a gamer is controlled by the code. What the official code allows you is legal to do as part of the game content and features. If the game doesn't want me to jump off a cliff, an invisbile wall will be put there to prevent me doing so. If the game doesn't want to allow me to steal from sacks in a fence, it will not be clickable.
Everything I can do in a game, the code is responsible for it.

So because my car can go over the speed limit, it's the manufacturer's fault if I get a ticket?

If there's a glitch in the game and the player plays on it, it's again the responsibility of the code and the coder. ZOS can not redirect this responsibility to the player through shady legal text called "terms and conditions". A computer game is a product which also falls under the legal regulations of trading so it has to be fit for purpose in any given moment and should not be misused. However misusing it does not mean one can be deprived from the accessibility (especially not permanently) maybe losing warranty.

It is the responsibility of the code and coder...to fix it, which they're doing. Next argument? Oh, and re-read the ToS, pretty sure you'll find something along the lines of "No Warranty expressed or implied."

In this case I see no harm done to the game community and also this is not an illegal use of the program code as the code has not been breached, nor hacked. The player played what the code allowed him to do without using any third party code (like with add-ons, khm, which are now feature for some reason even if it affects everyone else's gameplay big deal) or without affecting the game of anyone else in the virtual world.

So I'd reconsider this overly reactive permaban otherwise any given player could successfully run a lawsuit against ZOS any time.

If there was no harm in the addition of unearned items, achievements, and gold, then there is equally no harm in undoing items, achievements, and gold - right back to day zero.

And here's another area where your 'argument' falls flat. ZoS is not permanently restricting access to anyone here. Those 'permabanned' can get a new account and be right back in the game.

/CaseDismissed

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

ynimma wrote: »

I did.
And how do you think a terms of service text can override the trading standards' regulations?
There are many ways to deal with a situation like this in ratio of what happened. Erasing the achievement and retrieving the reward could just make that proportionally, sending out the message of "hey, there's no point exploiting because you'll not get anything with it".
I'm also against cheating, no question about that. But there are accounts here backed up with a lot of payment and that makes it a legal issue rather than a moralistic local tribal justice.
So again, I'd suggest to reconsider the way it's been done. Permaban is hugely disproportional. There are many many ways to demotivate cheaters to exploit the game without getting into a legal issue.
The terms "cheat" and "exploit" are interpretative terms, there's no proper definition to them for each specific cases which makes the Terms of Service text underdog to the general trading standard regulations. And as there was no hack, no breach to the code, there was no violation to the sofware nor to the service, there was legally no action taken on which basis ZOS can exercise these bans.

So yo uare fully aware that by exploiting the game like that not only violates a contract you signed. You are also damaging the reputation of a Company and a Product, affecting its present and future sales. You are also damaging the population of the game who is not exploiting the game. And you can see that both in game zone chats, and in the support forums. Indirectly this affect several ZOS Departments (CC, Data, Development, Legal, ...), which must dedicate resources to handle the issue.

So, who's going to pay for all of this?

They are not just exploiting a bug.

Think.

The terms "cheat" and "exploit" are interpretative terms, there's no proper definition to them

They are pretty much spelled out in the ToS
They're counting on the fact that you're of adequate intellect to understand and agree.

Also, if you want to get down to brass tacks, ZoS could sue for damage to the company and financial loss. Every minute a paid employee has had to waste on this could be considered a loss created by those that exploited and could be pursued. (See, ZoS can sue per the ToS, but you can't.)

norebb16_ESO wrote: »

Honestly, this whole thing was worth it just to see how cancerous the community is. All these holier than thou "im better than you cause you glitched!" losers need to get a life, for real. Its a video game... If your bearing for your own or someones morality is where theyve exploited a video game, you need to re evaluate your life.. The people that glitched have affected literally nothing in any way and defending the company that has had to do "sorry we broke the game" reward packs to players every other update theyve released in the last year is both hilarious and sad... The skin is cosmetic and the weapons arent great, person i know did it to get rid of the achievements out of the journal since theyre never gonna get a good guild to do it and you dont even get the title or achievements that ACTUALLY show your guild is insane (Or that you and 11 other people need to go outside more)

And this is complete ***. If you're over the age of eight, you know the damn difference between right and wrong. You don't need someone to spell it out for you.

If your bearing for your own or someones morality is situational, you might want to reevaluate your own.

And look up the meaning of 'integrity' while you're at it.

As i said above, if people where actually profiting: more than reasonable but even temp banning 1100 people is just straight up lazy. Wipe the stuff from the account, warn them to stop messing around and if they have a history of it temp ban or ban but above all else - FIX YOUR CONTENT.

If you want to ban people for exploiting, be consistent with it across the board or dont be surprised people exploit what the devs are to lazy to fix in a game where glitches are a consistent issue players encounter because of their shody work. If you make a show of only banning certain players and never actually address the issue theyre going to run out of players in a dwindling population as it is. Unless summerset draws record numbers or brings back players who stopped long term its not a sustainable business model. Just ask other developers who where know for selling broken content

Something we can half agree on. It should be permabans, across the board, once it's verified the exploit took place.

(I suspect various things get logged when major achieves are 'earned' such as character position, group list, time, overall damage in/out, etc, so proving would be simplified.)

And before the counterargument that it can't be proven in all cases, I'd say reassemble the same group and let them prove they can do it, or at least come close. If it was legit, this should be nothing more than a minor inconvenience and a chance to show how l33t a group really is.

swirve · May 2018

Best suggestion Ive seen is that the cheaters should have an enforced title of "Glitching Noob" for 1 year...

@ZOS_GinaBruno please make this happen... SOON

fossoyer · May 2018

Banning people is maybe the quicker way for Zos to have less lag on server.

phileunderx2 · May 2018

Ban O Rama!!!! Heh heh.