Don't Nerf Sloads - Buff Wyrd Tree

fred4 · May 2018

So Sloads prevents you from cloaking? That's ugly and explains a few things. Surely that's unintended and should be fixed.

I tried Efficient Purge on my NB a long time ago as a counter to being marked. Absolutely useless. Huge magicka and opportunity cost. Often needs to be cast more than once. You are immediately re-marked. Might as well stand there and die already, cause you're just running down your magicka and wasting time.

Of course I am trying to express a sentiment here. If you want to get technical then, yes, it saves you sometimes, but there are just so many better skills (for a solo play). With so few bar slots, your skills need to be either bread and butter (spammable, cloak, shield), or they need to have some versatility, such as Mass Hysteria.

There is one specialised skill I make room for in many of my builds, even most of my magicka builds: Forward Momentum, because it conveys an immunity. If Purge prioritsed cleaning of "nasty" debuffs, such as Sloads, Mark, Curse, and it gave even just a 2 second immunity afterwards - enough time to get into cloak - it would be a whole different ballgame.

Olupajmibanan · May 2018

I've recovered my long forgotten versatile but immobile magplar just to punish all the Sload+Zaan users.

Sky_WK · May 2018

CaptainBeerDude wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Spurius_Lucilius wrote: »

Then how do stamina setups counter this set?

simply by casting purge.
ever since 2013 beta we nightblades have had to adjust our builds and our skills and playstyle simply for counters to sets, and class overbalances and even bosses and things in Both PvE as well as PvP.

But this particular set "sloads" was a real challenge to us nightblades because it removes us from stealth and Keeps us out of stealth and casting invisibility for 6 seconds and keeps on removing our ability to stealth because it is a D.O.T. (damage over time) and D.O.T.'s are not suppose to keep us from being able to cast cloak nor keep us from stealthing but some reason this set does do that, probably because it is oblivion damage and not regular damage.

none the less, the point is that this set is a serious problem for us nightblades if we do not cast "purge" skill and have it removed from us.

ofcourse, if you are running a Gank Build and a build that is intended to fight Multiple people or Crowds or Groups of people, in that case you would have to alter your build.
normaly 1 cast of purge will infact remove sloads dot, but others have mentioned that if they are dealing with multiple D.O.T.'s then they are not able to remove all the dot's in just 1 cast.
so to fix this that problem you might have to cast purge more then once.

the problem with that though is some peoples builds are set up for 100% damage and have zero room for defense, as well as having no points into magicka, and they might also not want to place a "purge" skill on thier skill bar.
and because of those type Gank Builds they are unable to cast purge more than once if they are fighting multiple people.

in the end all that has to happen is that you must make room for purge to be on your skill bar and you also need to put some points into defenses and Tat is your Counter to the sloads set.

it really is that simple, just make some slight build adjustments, cast purge.

smh how many times do we have to say that if one set is strong enough to force ppl that otherwise are fine just to compensate for it that set is absolute in need of a nerf

If you want to run the glass cannon, deal with the consequences.

If anyone wanted an example of an ignorant uninformed post, here you go.

Kikke · May 2018

This game is balanced around counters, not pure balance. so stop crying and learn too COUNTER what you hate.

Chilly-McFreeze · May 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Spurius_Lucilius wrote: »

Then how do stamina setups counter this set?

simply by casting purge.
ever since 2013 beta we nightblades have had to adjust our builds and our skills and playstyle simply for counters to sets, and class overbalances and even bosses and things in Both PvE as well as PvP.

[...]

the problem with that though is some peoples builds are set up for 100% damage and have zero room for defense, as well as having no points into magicka, and they might also not want to place a "purge" skill on thier skill bar.
and because of those type Gank Builds they are unable to cast purge more than once if they are fighting multiple people.

in the end all that has to happen is that you must make room for purge to be on your skill bar and you also need to put some points into defenses and Tat is your Counter to the sloads set.

it really is that simple, just make some slight build adjustments, cast purge.

"Ever since 2013 beta we nightblades have had to adjust our builds"... sorry, I can't take that seriously. Who cares what you build for before the game was even released?

However, back to topic. I know you always drop your very insightful bombs of wisdom and then leave the thread for good, so no fruitful discussion can occur, but here we go. I keep this short bc you might skip walls of text:

putting points into magicka =/= better defense. First and base mistake.
Efficient purge costs 5k mag. On my no-cp stam sorc I run Impreg on a Dunmer with a few tri-stat enchants + skoria.
What does it help? Means 22k health and I sit at around 12k mag. How much more do I need to invest into magicka to actually use my "defensive" skills: surge, streak, dark deal + your suggested purge.
"so to fix this that problem you might have to cast purge more then once"

Honest question: how much more set boni, enchant etc. I have to spend on magicka and health to be defensive enough now? Or to say it in a different way: how much damage and regen on my main resource do I need to loose to counter sloads?

Silver_Strider · May 2018

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

If Sload is wrecking you in PvP then sugar, you need to learn how to PvP

I'd like to see you survive 4 people with sloads and defile, sugar.

Change Sload for Incap/Dawnbreaker/Leap/EotS

Same s***

Mady · May 2018

No? We need sloads for bad players, ok? buff incap kthxbye

Vaoh · May 2018

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

If Sload is wrecking you in PvP then sugar, you need to learn how to PvP

I'd like to see you survive 4 people with sloads and defile, sugar.

Change Sload for Incap/Dawnbreaker/Leap/EotS

Same s***

Ty for making that comparison as a way to validate Sloads. You legit just compared Sloads to Ultimate abilities in an attempt to try to make Sloads sound mediocre

I agree. They are essentially the same thing.

Now take Sloads AND those Ultimates and see what happens to you lol.

WreckfulAbandon · May 2018

Vaoh wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

If Sload is wrecking you in PvP then sugar, you need to learn how to PvP

I'd like to see you survive 4 people with sloads and defile, sugar.

Change Sload for Incap/Dawnbreaker/Leap/EotS

Same s***

Ty for making that comparison as a way to validate Sloads. You legit just compared Sloads to Ultimate abilities in an attempt to try to make Sloads sound mediocre

I agree. They are essentially the same thing.

Now take Sloads AND those Ultimates and see what happens to you lol.

You don't even need to use ults for the comparison. 4 curses, 4 landed snipes, 4 suprise attacks, 4 light attacks even.

The light attack damage changes are probably having a bigger impact on shield viability than sloads.

And I'm not going to break out the world's tiniest violin for all the salty nightblades. Maybe try learning the game mechanics better. I can say definitively that I have seen (and been/am friends with) more nightblades than any other class get to a high alliance rank with a subpar knowledge of basic game mechanics. And the ones that do, always excel, and probably are not complaining about sloads at all.

Vaoh · May 2018

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

If Sload is wrecking you in PvP then sugar, you need to learn how to PvP

I'd like to see you survive 4 people with sloads and defile, sugar.

Change Sload for Incap/Dawnbreaker/Leap/EotS

Same s***

Ty for making that comparison as a way to validate Sloads. You legit just compared Sloads to Ultimate abilities in an attempt to try to make Sloads sound mediocre

I agree. They are essentially the same thing.

Now take Sloads AND those Ultimates and see what happens to you lol.

You don't even need to use ults for the comparison. 4 curses, 4 landed snipes, 4 suprise attacks, 4 light attacks even.

The light attack damage changes are probably having a bigger impact on shield viability than sloads.

And I'm not going to break out the world's tiniest violin for all the salty nightblades. Maybe try learning the game mechanics better. I can say definitively that I have seen (and been/am friends with) more nightblades than any other class get to a high alliance rank with a subpar knowledge of basic game mechanics. And the ones that do, always excel, and probably are not complaining about sloads at all.

Sloads is a horribly imbalanced set that has no place in a game like this. Should not exist. That is all.

nekura · May 2018

ezio45 wrote: »

they dont, they die like everyone else, myself included, unless you plan to slot purge and spam it, praying its that negative dot it decides to remove...

I've been playing a solo gankblade, but a non-meta spec for almost two years. I can't live without purge, but like you say the RNG nature of it makes it frustrating to use even with [30k stam / 16-7k mag / no-CP].

Purging Sloads is only a priority when I am trying to stealth, but even then if it gets Sloads and doesn't get a DOT it will refresh itself immediately when the CD is up.

starlizard70ub17_ESO · May 2018

Spurius_Lucilius wrote: »

Then how do stamina setups counter this set?

They don't, that's why it needs to be nerfed, otherwise all you'll see in Cryodiil is magic builds.

Silver_Strider · May 2018

Vaoh wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

If Sload is wrecking you in PvP then sugar, you need to learn how to PvP

I'd like to see you survive 4 people with sloads and defile, sugar.

Change Sload for Incap/Dawnbreaker/Leap/EotS

Same s***

Ty for making that comparison as a way to validate Sloads. You legit just compared Sloads to Ultimate abilities in an attempt to try to make Sloads sound mediocre

I agree. They are essentially the same thing.

Now take Sloads AND those Ultimates and see what happens to you lol.

Ty for suggesting that fighting Xv1 as justification that a set is broken. Should I have compared 4 people using Viper's Sting, or any proc sets, instead of Ultimates?
SAME EXACT S***.

ezio45 · May 2018

nekura wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

they dont, they die like everyone else, myself included, unless you plan to slot purge and spam it, praying its that negative dot it decides to remove...

I've been playing a solo gankblade, but a non-meta spec for almost two years. I can't live without purge, but like you say the RNG nature of it makes it frustrating to use even with [30k stam / 16-7k mag / no-CP].

Purging Sloads is only a priority when I am trying to stealth, but even then if it gets Sloads and doesn't get a DOT it will refresh itself immediately when the CD is up.

i agree 100% lol sloads needs too go, should never have been added to the game

WuffyCerulei · May 2018

No one should have to wear a set just to counter another. Sload's just needs a longer cooldown or reduced damage.

ezio45 · May 2018

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

If Sload is wrecking you in PvP then sugar, you need to learn how to PvP

I'd like to see you survive 4 people with sloads and defile, sugar.

Change Sload for Incap/Dawnbreaker/Leap/EotS

Same s***

Ty for making that comparison as a way to validate Sloads. You legit just compared Sloads to Ultimate abilities in an attempt to try to make Sloads sound mediocre

I agree. They are essentially the same thing.

Now take Sloads AND those Ultimates and see what happens to you lol.

You don't even need to use ults for the comparison. 4 curses, 4 landed snipes, 4 suprise attacks, 4 light attacks even.

The light attack damage changes are probably having a bigger impact on shield viability than sloads.

And I'm not going to break out the world's tiniest violin for all the salty nightblades. Maybe try learning the game mechanics better. I can say definitively that I have seen (and been/am friends with) more nightblades than any other class get to a high alliance rank with a subpar knowledge of basic game mechanics. And the ones that do, always excel, and probably are not complaining about sloads at all.

how many times to i have to say in a sloads threat for ppl to learn how mitigation works

if you take into account the same damage as anything you just listed after mitigation, in the same time frame they will ALL 100% of them do less damage than sloads

all of those over 7 seconds hit you for an average of less than 600 dmg/sec

brandonv516 · May 2018

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

No one should have to wear a set just to counter another. Sload's just needs a longer cooldown or reduced damage.

I do agree with this but buffing Wyrd Tree is beneficial to countering many negative things other than Sloads. Poisons, Maim, Defile, to name a few.

This would put Wyrd Tree at the same popularity level as Lich, Transmutation, Wizards, etc.

I admit to using Sload (attention grabber) as a reason for my own agenda to buff Wyrd Tree. Unfortunately this thread will likely just continue to divide people on whether Sloads is OP or not.

WreckfulAbandon · May 2018

ezio45 wrote: »

how many times to i have to say in a sloads threat for ppl to learn how mitigation works

if you take into account the same damage as anything you just listed after mitigation, in the same time frame they will ALL 100% of them do less damage than sloads

all of those over 7 seconds hit you for an average of less than 600 dmg/sec

We were talking about the Xv1 implications of sloads, you're taking things out of context. Telling me how mitigation works lol. The conversation has moved on, please try to keep up.

D0PAMINE · May 2018

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

This would make the game very rock-paper-scissors-y. I'd prefer to be able to wear whatever sets I want without having to worry too much about needing to hard counter a particularly potent threat with a particular other set.

You're FRIGHT correct? I've seen you obliterate groups of people and had a blast fighting you. I dont spec for defile but Sloads allows me to pressure while still playing solo. You just never know what people could be running.

D0PAMINE · May 2018

ezio45 wrote: »

Ankael07 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I remember back in 2014 (or maybe it was 2015 ? idk) one of Shadow Cloak morphs had build in negative effect removal (similar to Purge)... Good old times...

Good riddance. That skill gave so much confidence to NBs they feel theyre entitled to the immunity from Sload while they keep their Shieldbreaker.

Welcome down to the world of mortals

sloads screwed over sorcs worse than shield breaker

Not all of us run Sloads with defile sets and poisons. I have never melted anyone on my pvp StamDK.

Qbiken · May 2018

D0PAMINE wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

This would make the game very rock-paper-scissors-y. I'd prefer to be able to wear whatever sets I want without having to worry too much about needing to hard counter a particularly potent threat with a particular other set.

You're FRIGHT correct? I've seen you obliterate groups of people and had a blast fighting you. I dont spec for defile but Sloads allows me to pressure while still playing solo. You just never know what people could be running.

While I´m not defending Sload, I like the "rock-paper-scissors" aspect of the game. It´s what makes PvP interesting.

Vaoh · May 2018

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

If Sload is wrecking you in PvP then sugar, you need to learn how to PvP

I'd like to see you survive 4 people with sloads and defile, sugar.

Change Sload for Incap/Dawnbreaker/Leap/EotS

Same s***

Ty for making that comparison as a way to validate Sloads. You legit just compared Sloads to Ultimate abilities in an attempt to try to make Sloads sound mediocre

I agree. They are essentially the same thing.

Now take Sloads AND those Ultimates and see what happens to you lol.

Ty for suggesting that fighting Xv1 as justification that a set is broken. Should I have compared 4 people using Viper's Sting, or any proc sets, instead of Ultimates?
SAME EXACT S***.

You’re welcome lol. Anytime.

Unless you are one those people who believe it is impossible for 1 player to ever defeat 2 players in any given situation, the imbalance is clear. Oblivion Damage works a bit..... differently.... than other damage types.

So yup enjoy your Sloads!

ZOS caters to people just like you so you’re definitely in luck!

Druid40 · May 2018

Why do damage sets still proc in PVP? Make them crit again and only work in PVE.

ezio45 · May 2018

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

If Sload is wrecking you in PvP then sugar, you need to learn how to PvP

I'd like to see you survive 4 people with sloads and defile, sugar.

Change Sload for Incap/Dawnbreaker/Leap/EotS

Same s***

Ty for making that comparison as a way to validate Sloads. You legit just compared Sloads to Ultimate abilities in an attempt to try to make Sloads sound mediocre

I agree. They are essentially the same thing.

Now take Sloads AND those Ultimates and see what happens to you lol.

Ty for suggesting that fighting Xv1 as justification that a set is broken. Should I have compared 4 people using Viper's Sting, or any proc sets, instead of Ultimates?
SAME EXACT S***.

the hell are you talking about xv1 hes saying a damn person with sloads droping an ult

D0PAMINE wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Ankael07 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I remember back in 2014 (or maybe it was 2015 ? idk) one of Shadow Cloak morphs had build in negative effect removal (similar to Purge)... Good old times...

Good riddance. That skill gave so much confidence to NBs they feel theyre entitled to the immunity from Sload while they keep their Shieldbreaker.

Welcome down to the world of mortals

sloads screwed over sorcs worse than shield breaker

Not all of us run Sloads with defile sets and poisons. I have never melted anyone on my pvp StamDK.

I meant the dmg, sloads comes out head of sb in the same time frame

ZOS_JesC · May 2018

Greetings, since we already have several topics open on this discussion, we have decided to close this one. Please feel free to continue the conversation here. Thank you for your understanding.