Endgame content does not require it. Now come back inside will you.

People like to come to the forums when they can’t hit good dps numbers to complain and blame it on something else, other than themselves.

You can perform a solid rotation with no animation cancelling and still hang with the best of them. The only major “animation cancel” that you may have to use is a barswap.... And that is way too easy to complain about.

Literally for a solid rotation it’s: skill, trigger/click, skill, trigger/click, barswap...

The trigger/click being a simple light attack. That is literally all you need to do.

dude, you don't even try it, right?
press skill, then press light attack, then press another skill, then light attack. It's ridiculously simple.

Left click, keyboard 1, Left click, keyboard 2, Left click, keyboard 3, Left click, keyboard 4, Left click, Keyboard R
Bar swap
Left click, keyboard 1, ...

It is THAT simple.

I mean, you could put a ten years old on you computer chair and coach him to achieve a basic rotation within 30 minutes.

Now of course the quality and speed of execution is going to differ with experience and training, but is there any interesting game where this isn't true ?

dazee wrote: »

Broken beyond belief. Until ZoS fixes this (and rebalances endgame content to not require it) I will not be playing much and I think others are beginning to get sick of this exploit as well.

I suggest you find yourself like-minded people who are not bothered with animation cancelling. Your fun in the game should not suffer under what others think of your play-style.

ripsauce

Sigh. Again.

dazee wrote: »

Broken beyond belief. Until ZoS fixes this (and rebalances endgame content to not require it) I will not be playing much and I think others are beginning to get sick of this exploit as well.

1. Weaving is not animation cancelling.
2. You do not have to cancel animations to break 30k+ DPS.
3. Animation cancelling is not an exploit.
4. You need good gear (with gold weapons at the very least), and a good rotation to do 30k+ DPS.

For the love of Talos, please stop using animation cancelling as your scapegoat. Post your gear, your stats, and your rotation (you do have a rotation, right?), and we’ll give you tips to help you improve your DPS.

Turelus wrote: »

Yakidafi wrote: »

Endgame content does not require it. Now come back inside will you.

I would argue this point.

In the past the statement was true and I would agree with you fully, now however because ZOS seems to be working closer around the idea of light weave being the correct way to play, they're balancing content around that.

Whilst a group which doesn't animation cancel can still clear the content, it's a lot harder for them to do* and much more unlikely they'll score the speed run achievements.

* Less DPS means less damage, which means more mechanics, harder execute phases etc.

Weaving is not animation cancelling. Light attacks do not cancel skill animations. Skills take priority over light/heavy attacks. While you’re weaving, the recovery animations of the light attack can be cancelled, but if you’re weaving fast enough, you will cancel the light attack recovery animations without even trying to do so. It’s not something you have to consciously think about.

Aurielle wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Yakidafi wrote: »

Endgame content does not require it. Now come back inside will you.

I would argue this point.

In the past the statement was true and I would agree with you fully, now however because ZOS seems to be working closer around the idea of light weave being the correct way to play, they're balancing content around that.

Whilst a group which doesn't animation cancel can still clear the content, it's a lot harder for them to do* and much more unlikely they'll score the speed run achievements.

* Less DPS means less damage, which means more mechanics, harder execute phases etc.

Weaving is not animation cancelling. Light attacks do not cancel skill animations. Skills take priority over light/heavy attacks. While you’re weaving, the recovery animations of the light attack can be cancelled, but if you’re weaving fast enough, you will cancel the light attack recovery animations without even trying to do so. It’s not something you have to consciously think about.

It is if you're not good at it or new to the game. Good weaving is good animation cancelling, because you're cutting the time needed to wait for that animation to finish. Yes the really good people who cancel also block cancel or weapon swap cancel skills but at it's very basics weaving and cancelling the full light/heavy attack animation is considered core gameplay mechanics now, which is animation cancelling.

Aznox wrote: »

I agree, Turelus as a community ambassador you should use the correct terms (that community agreed upon) to describe things otherwise the quality of the discussion suffers from misunderstandings.

So cancelling light/heavy attack animations isn't animation cancelling any more because we as a community decided to call that specific type weaving? Does block cancelling a skill animation stop being animation cancelling if we all decided to call it "block halting" ?

Aurielle wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Yakidafi wrote: »

Endgame content does not require it. Now come back inside will you.

I would argue this point.

In the past the statement was true and I would agree with you fully, now however because ZOS seems to be working closer around the idea of light weave being the correct way to play, they're balancing content around that.

Whilst a group which doesn't animation cancel can still clear the content, it's a lot harder for them to do* and much more unlikely they'll score the speed run achievements.

* Less DPS means less damage, which means more mechanics, harder execute phases etc.

Weaving is not animation cancelling. Light attacks do not cancel skill animations. Skills take priority over light/heavy attacks. While you’re weaving, the recovery animations of the light attack can be cancelled, but if you’re weaving fast enough, you will cancel the light attack recovery animations without even trying to do so. It’s not something you have to consciously think about.

It is if you're not good at it or new to the game. Good weaving is good animation cancelling, because you're cutting the time needed to wait for that animation to finish. Yes the really good people who cancel also block cancel or weapon swap cancel skills but at it's very basics weaving and cancelling the full light/heavy attack animation is considered core gameplay mechanics now, which is animation cancelling.

Aznox wrote: »

I agree, Turelus as a community ambassador you should use the correct terms (that community agreed upon) to describe things otherwise the quality of the discussion suffers from misunderstandings.

So cancelling light/heavy attack animations isn't animation cancelling any more because we as a community decided to call that specific type weaving? Does block cancelling a skill animation stop being animation cancelling if we all decided to call it "block halting" ?

As I said, yes, you can cancel the animation of a light attack’s recovery/follow-through period if you weave fast enough. I cancel light attack recovery animations without trying to.

Weaving — the process of throwing in a light attack before each skill — is not animation cancelling in and of itself. When people hear “animation cancelling”, they think about cancelled skill animations and assume that you don’t see a single skill animation play out if you want to hit 30k+ DPS, which is simply false. We all need to use clear terminology to avoid misunderstandings and frustration.

Sure, I am down with clearing terminology and I don't mean to cause confusion.
However I think to say cutting the LA/HA animations off with skills isn't a form of animation cancelling at all would be unfair.
It's the simplest and easiest form and one most people should be able to do, but being fast and good at it isn't something everyone can achieve (especially those with physical limitations) and wasn't from my understand an original concept for how the games combat systems should play.

I am fine with cancelling in all forms being within the game, but I don't believe ZOS should be embracing it as core mechanics required for achieving content. Not unless they're going to put the investment into explaining how it's done to new players (and a small "use a light attack before every skill" entry isn't telling players how).

I think people who throw their toys out the pram, ask for it to be removed or call it exploiting are in the wrong as well just to be clear. It has it's place in ESO but once again I don't think that place is it being overly embraced as mechanics or balanced around without extensive investment from ZOS in making it more obvious and attainable by players.

Turelus wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Yakidafi wrote: »

Endgame content does not require it. Now come back inside will you.

I would argue this point.

In the past the statement was true and I would agree with you fully, now however because ZOS seems to be working closer around the idea of light weave being the correct way to play, they're balancing content around that.

Whilst a group which doesn't animation cancel can still clear the content, it's a lot harder for them to do* and much more unlikely they'll score the speed run achievements.

* Less DPS means less damage, which means more mechanics, harder execute phases etc.

Weaving is not animation cancelling. Light attacks do not cancel skill animations. Skills take priority over light/heavy attacks. While you’re weaving, the recovery animations of the light attack can be cancelled, but if you’re weaving fast enough, you will cancel the light attack recovery animations without even trying to do so. It’s not something you have to consciously think about.

It is if you're not good at it or new to the game. Good weaving is good animation cancelling, because you're cutting the time needed to wait for that animation to finish. Yes the really good people who cancel also block cancel or weapon swap cancel skills but at it's very basics weaving and cancelling the full light/heavy attack animation is considered core gameplay mechanics now, which is animation cancelling.

Aznox wrote: »

I agree, Turelus as a community ambassador you should use the correct terms (that community agreed upon) to describe things otherwise the quality of the discussion suffers from misunderstandings.

So cancelling light/heavy attack animations isn't animation cancelling any more because we as a community decided to call that specific type weaving? Does block cancelling a skill animation stop being animation cancelling if we all decided to call it "block halting" ?

As I said, yes, you can cancel the animation of a light attack’s recovery/follow-through period if you weave fast enough. I cancel light attack recovery animations without trying to.

Weaving — the process of throwing in a light attack before each skill — is not animation cancelling in and of itself. When people hear “animation cancelling”, they think about cancelled skill animations and assume that you don’t see a single skill animation play out if you want to hit 30k+ DPS, which is simply false. We all need to use clear terminology to avoid misunderstandings and frustration.

Sure, I am down with clearing terminology and I don't mean to cause confusion.
However I think to say cutting the LA/HA animations off with skills isn't a form of animation cancelling at all would be unfair.
It's the simplest and easiest form and one most people should be able to do, but being fast and good at it isn't something everyone can achieve (especially those with physical limitations) and wasn't from my understand an original concept for how the games combat systems should play.

I am fine with cancelling in all forms being within the game, but I don't believe ZOS should be embracing it as core mechanics required for achieving content. Not unless they're going to put the investment into explaining how it's done to new players (and a small "use a light attack before every skill" entry isn't telling players how).

I think people who throw their toys out the pram, ask for it to be removed or call it exploiting are in the wrong as well just to be clear. It has it's place in ESO but once again I don't think that place is it being overly embraced as mechanics or balanced around without extensive investment from ZOS in making it more obvious and attainable by players.

I don’t call weaving animation cancelling for the same reason I don’t call blocking animation cancelling. You can use block to cancel skill animations, and you can weave quickly to cancel light attack animations, but blocking and weaving are not animation cancelling in and of themselves.

ZOS increased the damage of light attacks in Summerset, which encourages more weaving, not more animation cancelling. Weaving without cancelling the animations of light attacks will result in a DPS increase versus no weaving at all. When you cancel the recovery animation of a light attack (or a skill, for that matter), you are literally shaving off a few milliseconds at the most per rotation, allowing you to fit in roughly one light attack and skill per global cooldown. For leaderboard purposes, those milliseconds will make a difference. For content completion, they will not. You can complete any content in this game with no/minimal animation cancelling.

Aurielle wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Yakidafi wrote: »

Endgame content does not require it. Now come back inside will you.

I would argue this point.

In the past the statement was true and I would agree with you fully, now however because ZOS seems to be working closer around the idea of light weave being the correct way to play, they're balancing content around that.

Whilst a group which doesn't animation cancel can still clear the content, it's a lot harder for them to do* and much more unlikely they'll score the speed run achievements.

* Less DPS means less damage, which means more mechanics, harder execute phases etc.

Weaving is not animation cancelling. Light attacks do not cancel skill animations. Skills take priority over light/heavy attacks. While you’re weaving, the recovery animations of the light attack can be cancelled, but if you’re weaving fast enough, you will cancel the light attack recovery animations without even trying to do so. It’s not something you have to consciously think about.

It is if you're not good at it or new to the game. Good weaving is good animation cancelling, because you're cutting the time needed to wait for that animation to finish. Yes the really good people who cancel also block cancel or weapon swap cancel skills but at it's very basics weaving and cancelling the full light/heavy attack animation is considered core gameplay mechanics now, which is animation cancelling.

Aznox wrote: »

I agree, Turelus as a community ambassador you should use the correct terms (that community agreed upon) to describe things otherwise the quality of the discussion suffers from misunderstandings.

So cancelling light/heavy attack animations isn't animation cancelling any more because we as a community decided to call that specific type weaving? Does block cancelling a skill animation stop being animation cancelling if we all decided to call it "block halting" ?

As I said, yes, you can cancel the animation of a light attack’s recovery/follow-through period if you weave fast enough. I cancel light attack recovery animations without trying to.

Weaving — the process of throwing in a light attack before each skill — is not animation cancelling in and of itself. When people hear “animation cancelling”, they think about cancelled skill animations and assume that you don’t see a single skill animation play out if you want to hit 30k+ DPS, which is simply false. We all need to use clear terminology to avoid misunderstandings and frustration.

Weaving isn't simply just doing a LA before each skill, everyone does that and if you were to look up guides on Weaving, that is exactly what is taught; canceling the LA animation by using a skill's animation to override the follow-through. It is animation cancelling. It's shortening the time of LAs so that you can increase your DPS in your rotation by increasing the number of LAs you can achieve in your rotation before having to restart your rotation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTjhXLQXpac

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb0O9zjMDN4

It's not simply "Oh just LA and then do an ability." It's "LA and look for this cue in the animation to ensure your LA still registers so that you can now cancel the rest of the animation by following up with skill". Those are two completely different things. Animation Cancelling has been just as much being used on auto-attack animations in other MMOs as with skill animation cancelling.

Weaving is animation cancelling, you're literally cutting off the follow-through animation by overriding that LA animation with a skill, usually that skill will be your spammable.

dazee wrote: »

Dude I shouldn't have to exploit the way the combat system is set up to do good dps. And that's exactly what animation cancelling is. I won't do it and until ZOS fixes this exploit ESO is broken.

Weaving is entirely another thing.

Which proves that you have no clue and also that you are not reading the responds to your own OP. Canceling skill animations by hitting block/bash will not increase your DPS.

With that being said, I will say that I can understand why the gameplay developers at ZOS chose to accept the mechanic. My reasoning is that they had two choices: Either editing the LA animation so that there would be no follow through animation, which let's all admit, would be very clunky and awful. OR, let it continue and have players either noticing it or doing it without noticing since as DPS you're usually weaving LAs into your rotation between skills anyways. They chose the latter, and I don't blame them for it.

My issue is not that it can be viewed as an exploit (I personally don't think it is), or whether or not it's animation cancelling or not (it is). My issue, as many already know, is that ZOS is not only embracing the mechanic; they are beginning to change the combat system to further reinforce the importance of weaving. And I wouldn't even have a problem with that if they simply took the time to at least try and find a place to bring attention to it such as: add a tutorial, place tips on load screens, or even make a quick guide on their official website.

If they are doubling down on this mechanic, they need to be at the forefront teaching players of "Hey, this is weaving, it's going to be a pretty important thing to do later on in the game, let me show/tell you the basics". Instead of having players hear about it second-hand and then having to do independent research on what it is and how it's done as well as having some players, understandably, get frustrated that this mechanic is an important feature in the game yet ZOS only mentions it once. That's why, in my opinion, so many of these threads pop-up, it's because ZOS has severely dropped the ball on this concept and yet continues to reinforce the importance of weaving in DPS by their recent combat changes.