BGs matchmaking system - better in Summerset or worse?

Vaoh · May 2018

Do you prefer the Battleground matchmaking system prior to Summerset, or the current Summerset version?

Anethum · May 2018

Better in Summerset

its not enouch to ask is it better.
because it's not enouch better, here should be not only matchmaking system (and there are many options which it should match but think doesn't).
but at first what will change battlegrounds - separating solo queuers from premaders if first one choose this in group finder. with related leaderbords and rewards

hesobad · May 2018

Better before Summerset

I don't notice any difference. Still getting randoms against pre mades. Also everyone and their grandmother is running a bleed build or sloads.... so no It's not better

wheem_ESO · May 2018

Better before Summerset

Two out of three solo queues tonight were against the same premade, running dedicated heals and focus fired Stamina burst. At this point, ZOS just needs to fully separate premades and solo queues. If that ends up with premades having long queue times, oh well - so be it. This janky MMR implementation just doesn't cut it at all.

CyberSkooma · May 2018

Better in Summerset

It's better now.
There's a larger pool of people to pick from, so you're no longer fighting against all the same players for an hour or two at a time. They queue also pops much faster, not to mention I can actually pick the game modes that I want to play.

The argument with the pre-mades..... well it's still the same as before, so it's definitely not any better or worse in that respect.

ShadowMonarch · May 2018

Better before Summerset

CyberSkooma wrote: »

It's better now.
There's a larger pool of people to pick from, so you're no longer fighting against all the same players for an hour or two at a time. They queue also pops much faster, not to mention I can actually pick the game modes that I want to play.

The argument with the pre-mades..... well it's still the same as before, so it's definitely not any better or worse in that respect.

This isn't true for high mmr characters, we get stuck fighting almost specifically premades and queued into games as a replacement when they are nearly over because the system appears to be trying to only pair us with other players of that specific level. As well as extremely long queue times outside of the primetime, like 15-40mins.

CyberSkooma · May 2018

Better in Summerset

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

CyberSkooma wrote: »

It's better now.
There's a larger pool of people to pick from, so you're no longer fighting against all the same players for an hour or two at a time. They queue also pops much faster, not to mention I can actually pick the game modes that I want to play.

The argument with the pre-mades..... well it's still the same as before, so it's definitely not any better or worse in that respect.

This isn't true for high mmr characters, we get stuck fighting almost specifically premades and queued into games as a replacement when they are nearly over because the system appears to be trying to only pair us with other players of that specific level. As well as extremely long queue times outside of the primetime, like 15-40mins.

I have noticed that I've been thrown into the middle of games more than previously but I guess I haven't thought much of it.

The queue times probably also come down to me playing on an under 50 DK today. Haven't played BG's on my 50s recently.

ShadowMonarch · May 2018

Better before Summerset

CyberSkooma wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

CyberSkooma wrote: »

It's better now.
There's a larger pool of people to pick from, so you're no longer fighting against all the same players for an hour or two at a time. They queue also pops much faster, not to mention I can actually pick the game modes that I want to play.

The argument with the pre-mades..... well it's still the same as before, so it's definitely not any better or worse in that respect.

This isn't true for high mmr characters, we get stuck fighting almost specifically premades and queued into games as a replacement when they are nearly over because the system appears to be trying to only pair us with other players of that specific level. As well as extremely long queue times outside of the primetime, like 15-40mins.

I have noticed that I've been thrown into the middle of games more than previously but I guess I haven't thought much of it.

The queue times probably also come down to me playing on an under 50 DK today. Haven't played BG's on my 50s recently.

You won't experience it then, It only happens if you have a character you have been playing in bg's on for a long time or very successfully, it has appeared recently that their is a hidden mmr on each character and if you manage to get a extremely high mmr your queue becomes hell, its either their is so few players at that mmr that you get put vs premades almost every game cause otherwise it can't fill the match or the mmr of the premade is coming out to be around your mmr or collective mmr of the pug's you are matched with and throwing you vs the premade. If you log off your high mmr character and onto a fresh one you get pretty good queue times and not put near premades very often, it seems to be character specific. People have done side by side queues, group queues, ect to test it out. Some games we will fight 3v3v4 or 2v3v4 all game. I don't think its cause there is nobody in BG queue, I think its because there isn't anyone of the appropriate bracket.

Very few total players will even be effected probably, its just the top players and the ones who play the very most. It very much is a punishment for the most hardcore players.

CyberSkooma · May 2018

Better in Summerset

@ShadowMonarch Understandable. Hopefully you get some better luck on your BG ventures. Unfortunately it just looks like you're in a very rare position because of your MMR.

Maulkin · May 2018

It's a mixed bag for me.

Positives:
+ Actually MMR seems to make a difference in terms of pitting good players against other good players and balancing the teams slightly better.
+ More Deathmatches

Negatives:
- 15-20 minutes queuing time has become the average for me now.
- Too many games starting with teams having 3 players. Way more than before.

There was a reason we advocated for two queues (a solo/duo and a large group) instead of MMR. Precisely because we were worried that MMR would make it very hard to get games. That the playerbase is two small for this type of fragmentation. Unless it's a bug causing the long queues, then the fears seem to have been justified

Generally most games strive for a 2/3s balance. As in 2/3s of your time you are playing and 1/3 of your time you are queuing. If your queues are longer than the games, you start to lose players. No matter how fun and well-balanced your games are. Because players won't put up with waiting more than playing, in the long run. They'll get bored and play something else.

ESO is now in a negative balance. You wait more than you play. And that's a big problem.

Vaoh · May 2018

I forgot to put in a “Same as before Summerset” option..... sorry everyone lol.

Vaoh · May 2018

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

CyberSkooma wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

CyberSkooma wrote: »

It's better now.
There's a larger pool of people to pick from, so you're no longer fighting against all the same players for an hour or two at a time. They queue also pops much faster, not to mention I can actually pick the game modes that I want to play.

The argument with the pre-mades..... well it's still the same as before, so it's definitely not any better or worse in that respect.

This isn't true for high mmr characters, we get stuck fighting almost specifically premades and queued into games as a replacement when they are nearly over because the system appears to be trying to only pair us with other players of that specific level. As well as extremely long queue times outside of the primetime, like 15-40mins.

I have noticed that I've been thrown into the middle of games more than previously but I guess I haven't thought much of it.

The queue times probably also come down to me playing on an under 50 DK today. Haven't played BG's on my 50s recently.

You won't experience it then, It only happens if you have a character you have been playing in bg's on for a long time or very successfully, it has appeared recently that their is a hidden mmr on each character and if you manage to get a extremely high mmr your queue becomes hell, its either their is so few players at that mmr that you get put vs premades almost every game cause otherwise it can't fill the match or the mmr of the premade is coming out to be around your mmr or collective mmr of the pug's you are matched with and throwing you vs the premade. If you log off your high mmr character and onto a fresh one you get pretty good queue times and not put near premades very often, it seems to be character specific. People have done side by side queues, group queues, ect to test it out. Some games we will fight 3v3v4 or 2v3v4 all game. I don't think its cause there is nobody in BG queue, I think its because there isn't anyone of the appropriate bracket.

Very few total players will even be effected probably, its just the top players and the ones who play the very most. It very much is a punishment for the most hardcore players.

Dang. If that’s the case I’m screwed

I’m consistently the highest scoring player out of everyone in my games and do extremely well whether solo or in the very occasional pre-made.

Sounds like I’m going to go from having fun in BGs to possibly quitting BGs..... it was already bad enough that I lost my only CC (I main Mag Warden) but now I won’t even get into games? Plus those few games I even get into will queue me into the middle of a match? Sounds like I’m going to get severely punished for playing well. I hope these complaints from people are exaggerated.

Mojomonkeyman · May 2018

Better before Summerset

Vaoh wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

CyberSkooma wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

CyberSkooma wrote: »

It's better now.
There's a larger pool of people to pick from, so you're no longer fighting against all the same players for an hour or two at a time. They queue also pops much faster, not to mention I can actually pick the game modes that I want to play.

The argument with the pre-mades..... well it's still the same as before, so it's definitely not any better or worse in that respect.

This isn't true for high mmr characters, we get stuck fighting almost specifically premades and queued into games as a replacement when they are nearly over because the system appears to be trying to only pair us with other players of that specific level. As well as extremely long queue times outside of the primetime, like 15-40mins.

I have noticed that I've been thrown into the middle of games more than previously but I guess I haven't thought much of it.

The queue times probably also come down to me playing on an under 50 DK today. Haven't played BG's on my 50s recently.

You won't experience it then, It only happens if you have a character you have been playing in bg's on for a long time or very successfully, it has appeared recently that their is a hidden mmr on each character and if you manage to get a extremely high mmr your queue becomes hell, its either their is so few players at that mmr that you get put vs premades almost every game cause otherwise it can't fill the match or the mmr of the premade is coming out to be around your mmr or collective mmr of the pug's you are matched with and throwing you vs the premade. If you log off your high mmr character and onto a fresh one you get pretty good queue times and not put near premades very often, it seems to be character specific. People have done side by side queues, group queues, ect to test it out. Some games we will fight 3v3v4 or 2v3v4 all game. I don't think its cause there is nobody in BG queue, I think its because there isn't anyone of the appropriate bracket.

Very few total players will even be effected probably, its just the top players and the ones who play the very most. It very much is a punishment for the most hardcore players.

Dang. If that’s the case I’m screwed I’m consistently the highest scoring player out of everyone in my games and do extremely well whether solo or in the very occasional pre-made.

Sounds like I’m going to go from having fun in BGs to possibly quitting BGs..... it was already bad enough that I lost my only CC (I main Mag Warden) but now I won’t even get into games? Plus those few games I even get into will queue me into the middle of a match? Sounds like I’m going to get severely punished for playing well. I hope these complaints from people are exaggerated.

Has been tested by ultiple BG veterans, including me. My almost 1k matches played magwarden doesnt find a game without waiting 20-30 min before each match. No exaggeration, a timer is prohibiting this char to find any match before that time stamp.

I was so frustrated I grinded a copy of said magwarden in two days, now I find instant matches again. Number of matches played seems the most consistent factor of how your mmr is determined, I personally think win/loss is also taken into consideration but has less impact than pure numbers.

I have talked to players with lower winrate than me but similar # of games played, they also suffer the long waiting time, but tend to be eligible for more games than me if we queue solo at the same time. Means, if theres enough high mmr players waiting to fill a match, after cheking number of # matches played, the system will place low win/loss rate into the match before considering high win/loss rate players.

All based on observation, but things seem to work that way pretty consitently.

Vaoh · May 2018

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

CyberSkooma wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

CyberSkooma wrote: »

It's better now.
There's a larger pool of people to pick from, so you're no longer fighting against all the same players for an hour or two at a time. They queue also pops much faster, not to mention I can actually pick the game modes that I want to play.

The argument with the pre-mades..... well it's still the same as before, so it's definitely not any better or worse in that respect.

This isn't true for high mmr characters, we get stuck fighting almost specifically premades and queued into games as a replacement when they are nearly over because the system appears to be trying to only pair us with other players of that specific level. As well as extremely long queue times outside of the primetime, like 15-40mins.

I have noticed that I've been thrown into the middle of games more than previously but I guess I haven't thought much of it.

The queue times probably also come down to me playing on an under 50 DK today. Haven't played BG's on my 50s recently.

You won't experience it then, It only happens if you have a character you have been playing in bg's on for a long time or very successfully, it has appeared recently that their is a hidden mmr on each character and if you manage to get a extremely high mmr your queue becomes hell, its either their is so few players at that mmr that you get put vs premades almost every game cause otherwise it can't fill the match or the mmr of the premade is coming out to be around your mmr or collective mmr of the pug's you are matched with and throwing you vs the premade. If you log off your high mmr character and onto a fresh one you get pretty good queue times and not put near premades very often, it seems to be character specific. People have done side by side queues, group queues, ect to test it out. Some games we will fight 3v3v4 or 2v3v4 all game. I don't think its cause there is nobody in BG queue, I think its because there isn't anyone of the appropriate bracket.

Very few total players will even be effected probably, its just the top players and the ones who play the very most. It very much is a punishment for the most hardcore players.

Dang. If that’s the case I’m screwed I’m consistently the highest scoring player out of everyone in my games and do extremely well whether solo or in the very occasional pre-made.

Sounds like I’m going to go from having fun in BGs to possibly quitting BGs..... it was already bad enough that I lost my only CC (I main Mag Warden) but now I won’t even get into games? Plus those few games I even get into will queue me into the middle of a match? Sounds like I’m going to get severely punished for playing well. I hope these complaints from people are exaggerated.

Has been tested by ultiple BG veterans, including me. My almost 1k matches played magwarden doesnt find a game without waiting 20-30 min before each match. No exaggeration, a timer is prohibiting this char to find any match before that time stamp.

I was so frustrated I grinded a copy of said magwarden in two days, now I find instant matches again. Number of matches played seems the most consistent factor of how your mmr is determined, I personally think win/loss is also taken into consideration but has less impact than pure numbers.

I have talked to players with lower winrate than me but similar # of games played, they also suffer the long waiting time, but tend to be eligible for more games than me if we queue solo at the same time. Means, if theres enough high mmr players waiting to fill a match, after cheking number of # matches played, the system will place low win/loss rate into the match before considering high win/loss rate players.

All based on observation, but things seem to work that way pretty consitently.

Ahh I see. Thank you for the info. Sad to hear this

I’ll definitely try to play BGs in Summerset for like a month, but will stop entirely if it turns out this way.

ecru · May 2018

If you're losing roughly two thirds of your games, then the system is "better" or "working". If anyone here is close to a 50% win or loss rate (or higher), then ZOS has done a very poor job of implementing a matchmaking system.

Has anyone actually tracked their wins/losses over a period of time since the patch?

Thogard · May 2018

Better before Summerset

ecru wrote: »

If you're losing roughly two thirds of your games, then the system is "better" or "working". If anyone here is close to a 50% win or loss rate (or higher), then ZOS has done a very poor job of implementing a matchmaking system.

Has anyone actually tracked their wins/losses over a period of time since the patch?

i'm just curious - why do you think "win rate" has something to do with MMR?

It is absolutely not a factor on the current MMR placements. Are you saying that it'll change based on that?

ecru · May 2018

Thogard wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

If you're losing roughly two thirds of your games, then the system is "better" or "working". If anyone here is close to a 50% win or loss rate (or higher), then ZOS has done a very poor job of implementing a matchmaking system.

Has anyone actually tracked their wins/losses over a period of time since the patch?

i'm just curious - why do you think "win rate" has something to do with MMR?

It is absolutely not a factor on the current MMR placements. Are you saying that it'll change based on that?

I don't know if you can say for sure that it's not a factor since you can't see your ELO right now.

The goal of a good matchmaking system is to match players up against opponents of equal skill. Ideally these matches between players of equal skill (assuming two players or two teams) end up 50/50. Your ELO climbs or falls depending on your performance until you "settle in" to a range where players of equal skill are present, leading to your win rate to be roughly 50%.

If you throw another team or player into the mix, this 50/50 outcome changes to only one team or person winning, and two losing. You can't win half of your games when two teams are present because two teams have to lose every single time.

Thogard · May 2018

Better before Summerset

ecru wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

If you're losing roughly two thirds of your games, then the system is "better" or "working". If anyone here is close to a 50% win or loss rate (or higher), then ZOS has done a very poor job of implementing a matchmaking system.

Has anyone actually tracked their wins/losses over a period of time since the patch?

i'm just curious - why do you think "win rate" has something to do with MMR?

It is absolutely not a factor on the current MMR placements. Are you saying that it'll change based on that?

I don't know if you can say for sure that it's not a factor since you can't see your ELO right now.

The goal of a good matchmaking system is to match players up against opponents of equal skill. Ideally these matches between players of equal skill (assuming two players or two teams) end up 50/50. Your ELO climbs or falls depending on your performance until you "settle in" to a range where players of equal skill are present, leading to your win rate to be roughly 50%.

If you throw another team or player into the mix, this 50/50 outcome changes to only one team or person winning, and two losing. You can't win half of your games when two teams are present because two teams have to lose every single time.

no but i can see my win rates and my games played, and rule out win rate as a factor...

maybe total # of wins, but I am 100% certain it is something cumulative.

CO_Gibbs · May 2018

Better before Summerset

If you are on a toon with a lot of BG's played (like 1k+), it's hopelessly broken, pretty much not worth q'ing.

All my solo Q's result in facing at least 1 premade, 7 of my 8 matches yesterday started with 3 v 4 v 4, most did not fill until very late or not at all. The update should be rolled back, and the Q should only pit grouped players vs grouped players, and solo q'ers vs solo q'ers. If this system was implemented I would not be surprised to see q times drastically reduced.

It was bad before for seasoned players. It's absolutely awful now.

Vaoh · May 2018

CO_Gibbs wrote: »

If you are on a toon with a lot of BG's played (like 1k+), it's hopelessly broken, pretty much not worth q'ing.

All my solo Q's result in facing at least 1 premade, 7 of my 8 matches yesterday started with 3 v 4 v 4, most did not fill until very late or not at all. The update should be rolled back, and the Q should only pit grouped players vs grouped players, and solo q'ers vs solo q'ers. If this system was implemented I would not be surprised to see q times drastically reduced.

It was bad before for seasoned players. It's absolutely awful now.

Even as a solo player queuing up, I didn’t mind most premades because the matchmaking system was quick. I got into games 2/3 times within 30sec or less. Plus the premade groups tended to suck anyway lol. It was only on rare occasion a premade was organized enough to wreck everyone.

I hope that ZOS is willing to revert their changes if it’ll ruin my experience as a skilled, long time BG player. Otherwise I simply won’t play.

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BGs matchmaking system - better in Summerset or worse?

BGs matchmaking system - better in Summerset or worse? 35 votes