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BGs matchmaking system - better in Summerset or worse?

Vaoh
Vaoh
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Do you prefer the Battleground matchmaking system prior to Summerset, or the current Summerset version?

BGs matchmaking system - better in Summerset or worse? 35 votes

Better in Summerset
45%
Arobaintourerttrwb17_ESOWeyounTMAnethumVostorngootdudeChunkyCatValera ProgibAkromaAngelOfWrathFlipsNewton's_baneDemracal50Dosuuloxygen_thiefCyberSkooma 16 votes
Better before Summerset
54%
Solarikenwheem_ESOTondodinoCO_GibbsTroneonhesobadMojomonkeymanCinbriBfish22090PaganiniApheriusAlurueMorgul667indian_boy81ThogardHeresyallDivineFirstYOLOShadowMonarchRogihor 19 votes
  • Anethum
    Anethum
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    Better in Summerset
    its not enouch to ask is it better.
    because it's not enouch better, here should be not only matchmaking system (and there are many options which it should match but think doesn't).
    but at first what will change battlegrounds - separating solo queuers from premaders if first one choose this in group finder. with related leaderbords and rewards
    Edited by Anethum on May 29, 2018 12:01PM
    @Anethum from .ua
  • hesobad
    hesobad
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    Better before Summerset
    I don't notice any difference. Still getting randoms against pre mades. Also everyone and their grandmother is running a bleed build or sloads.... so no It's not better
    Ad Victoriam!
  • CyberSkooma
    CyberSkooma
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    Better in Summerset
    It's better now.
    There's a larger pool of people to pick from, so you're no longer fighting against all the same players for an hour or two at a time. They queue also pops much faster, not to mention I can actually pick the game modes that I want to play.

    The argument with the pre-mades..... well it's still the same as before, so it's definitely not any better or worse in that respect.
    Edited by CyberSkooma on May 29, 2018 5:55AM
    ESO Streamer and Twitch Affiliate - https://www.twitch.tv/CyberSkooma
  • ShadowMonarch
    ShadowMonarch
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    Better before Summerset
    It's better now.
    There's a larger pool of people to pick from, so you're no longer fighting against all the same players for an hour or two at a time. They queue also pops much faster, not to mention I can actually pick the game modes that I want to play.

    The argument with the pre-mades..... well it's still the same as before, so it's definitely not any better or worse in that respect.

    This isn't true for high mmr characters, we get stuck fighting almost specifically premades and queued into games as a replacement when they are nearly over because the system appears to be trying to only pair us with other players of that specific level. As well as extremely long queue times outside of the primetime, like 15-40mins.

  • CyberSkooma
    CyberSkooma
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    Better in Summerset
    It's better now.
    There's a larger pool of people to pick from, so you're no longer fighting against all the same players for an hour or two at a time. They queue also pops much faster, not to mention I can actually pick the game modes that I want to play.

    The argument with the pre-mades..... well it's still the same as before, so it's definitely not any better or worse in that respect.

    This isn't true for high mmr characters, we get stuck fighting almost specifically premades and queued into games as a replacement when they are nearly over because the system appears to be trying to only pair us with other players of that specific level. As well as extremely long queue times outside of the primetime, like 15-40mins.

    I have noticed that I've been thrown into the middle of games more than previously but I guess I haven't thought much of it.

    The queue times probably also come down to me playing on an under 50 DK today. Haven't played BG's on my 50s recently.
    ESO Streamer and Twitch Affiliate - https://www.twitch.tv/CyberSkooma
  • ShadowMonarch
    ShadowMonarch
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    Better before Summerset
    It's better now.
    There's a larger pool of people to pick from, so you're no longer fighting against all the same players for an hour or two at a time. They queue also pops much faster, not to mention I can actually pick the game modes that I want to play.

    The argument with the pre-mades..... well it's still the same as before, so it's definitely not any better or worse in that respect.

    This isn't true for high mmr characters, we get stuck fighting almost specifically premades and queued into games as a replacement when they are nearly over because the system appears to be trying to only pair us with other players of that specific level. As well as extremely long queue times outside of the primetime, like 15-40mins.

    I have noticed that I've been thrown into the middle of games more than previously but I guess I haven't thought much of it.

    The queue times probably also come down to me playing on an under 50 DK today. Haven't played BG's on my 50s recently.

    You won't experience it then, It only happens if you have a character you have been playing in bg's on for a long time or very successfully, it has appeared recently that their is a hidden mmr on each character and if you manage to get a extremely high mmr your queue becomes hell, its either their is so few players at that mmr that you get put vs premades almost every game cause otherwise it can't fill the match or the mmr of the premade is coming out to be around your mmr or collective mmr of the pug's you are matched with and throwing you vs the premade. If you log off your high mmr character and onto a fresh one you get pretty good queue times and not put near premades very often, it seems to be character specific. People have done side by side queues, group queues, ect to test it out. Some games we will fight 3v3v4 or 2v3v4 all game. I don't think its cause there is nobody in BG queue, I think its because there isn't anyone of the appropriate bracket.

    Very few total players will even be effected probably, its just the top players and the ones who play the very most. It very much is a punishment for the most hardcore players.
    Edited by ShadowMonarch on May 29, 2018 6:52AM
  • CyberSkooma
    CyberSkooma
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    Better in Summerset
    @ShadowMonarch Understandable. Hopefully you get some better luck on your BG ventures. Unfortunately it just looks like you're in a very rare position because of your MMR.
    ESO Streamer and Twitch Affiliate - https://www.twitch.tv/CyberSkooma
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    It's a mixed bag for me.

    Positives:
    + Actually MMR seems to make a difference in terms of pitting good players against other good players and balancing the teams slightly better.
    + More Deathmatches

    Negatives:
    - 15-20 minutes queuing time has become the average for me now.
    - Too many games starting with teams having 3 players. Way more than before.

    There was a reason we advocated for two queues (a solo/duo and a large group) instead of MMR. Precisely because we were worried that MMR would make it very hard to get games. That the playerbase is two small for this type of fragmentation. Unless it's a bug causing the long queues, then the fears seem to have been justified

    Generally most games strive for a 2/3s balance. As in 2/3s of your time you are playing and 1/3 of your time you are queuing. If your queues are longer than the games, you start to lose players. No matter how fun and well-balanced your games are. Because players won't put up with waiting more than playing, in the long run. They'll get bored and play something else.

    ESO is now in a negative balance. You wait more than you play. And that's a big problem.

    Edited by Maulkin on May 29, 2018 10:25AM
    EU | PC | AD
  • Vaoh
    Vaoh
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    I forgot to put in a “Same as before Summerset” option..... sorry everyone lol.
  • Vaoh
    Vaoh
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    It's better now.
    There's a larger pool of people to pick from, so you're no longer fighting against all the same players for an hour or two at a time. They queue also pops much faster, not to mention I can actually pick the game modes that I want to play.

    The argument with the pre-mades..... well it's still the same as before, so it's definitely not any better or worse in that respect.

    This isn't true for high mmr characters, we get stuck fighting almost specifically premades and queued into games as a replacement when they are nearly over because the system appears to be trying to only pair us with other players of that specific level. As well as extremely long queue times outside of the primetime, like 15-40mins.

    I have noticed that I've been thrown into the middle of games more than previously but I guess I haven't thought much of it.

    The queue times probably also come down to me playing on an under 50 DK today. Haven't played BG's on my 50s recently.

    You won't experience it then, It only happens if you have a character you have been playing in bg's on for a long time or very successfully, it has appeared recently that their is a hidden mmr on each character and if you manage to get a extremely high mmr your queue becomes hell, its either their is so few players at that mmr that you get put vs premades almost every game cause otherwise it can't fill the match or the mmr of the premade is coming out to be around your mmr or collective mmr of the pug's you are matched with and throwing you vs the premade. If you log off your high mmr character and onto a fresh one you get pretty good queue times and not put near premades very often, it seems to be character specific. People have done side by side queues, group queues, ect to test it out. Some games we will fight 3v3v4 or 2v3v4 all game. I don't think its cause there is nobody in BG queue, I think its because there isn't anyone of the appropriate bracket.

    Very few total players will even be effected probably, its just the top players and the ones who play the very most. It very much is a punishment for the most hardcore players.

    Dang. If that’s the case I’m screwed :lol: I’m consistently the highest scoring player out of everyone in my games and do extremely well whether solo or in the very occasional pre-made.

    Sounds like I’m going to go from having fun in BGs to possibly quitting BGs..... it was already bad enough that I lost my only CC (I main Mag Warden) but now I won’t even get into games? Plus those few games I even get into will queue me into the middle of a match? Sounds like I’m going to get severely punished for playing well. I hope these complaints from people are exaggerated.
  • Mojomonkeyman
    Mojomonkeyman
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    Better before Summerset
    Vaoh wrote: »
    It's better now.
    There's a larger pool of people to pick from, so you're no longer fighting against all the same players for an hour or two at a time. They queue also pops much faster, not to mention I can actually pick the game modes that I want to play.

    The argument with the pre-mades..... well it's still the same as before, so it's definitely not any better or worse in that respect.

    This isn't true for high mmr characters, we get stuck fighting almost specifically premades and queued into games as a replacement when they are nearly over because the system appears to be trying to only pair us with other players of that specific level. As well as extremely long queue times outside of the primetime, like 15-40mins.

    I have noticed that I've been thrown into the middle of games more than previously but I guess I haven't thought much of it.

    The queue times probably also come down to me playing on an under 50 DK today. Haven't played BG's on my 50s recently.

    You won't experience it then, It only happens if you have a character you have been playing in bg's on for a long time or very successfully, it has appeared recently that their is a hidden mmr on each character and if you manage to get a extremely high mmr your queue becomes hell, its either their is so few players at that mmr that you get put vs premades almost every game cause otherwise it can't fill the match or the mmr of the premade is coming out to be around your mmr or collective mmr of the pug's you are matched with and throwing you vs the premade. If you log off your high mmr character and onto a fresh one you get pretty good queue times and not put near premades very often, it seems to be character specific. People have done side by side queues, group queues, ect to test it out. Some games we will fight 3v3v4 or 2v3v4 all game. I don't think its cause there is nobody in BG queue, I think its because there isn't anyone of the appropriate bracket.

    Very few total players will even be effected probably, its just the top players and the ones who play the very most. It very much is a punishment for the most hardcore players.

    Dang. If that’s the case I’m screwed :lol: I’m consistently the highest scoring player out of everyone in my games and do extremely well whether solo or in the very occasional pre-made.

    Sounds like I’m going to go from having fun in BGs to possibly quitting BGs..... it was already bad enough that I lost my only CC (I main Mag Warden) but now I won’t even get into games? Plus those few games I even get into will queue me into the middle of a match? Sounds like I’m going to get severely punished for playing well. I hope these complaints from people are exaggerated.

    Has been tested by ultiple BG veterans, including me. My almost 1k matches played magwarden doesnt find a game without waiting 20-30 min before each match. No exaggeration, a timer is prohibiting this char to find any match before that time stamp.

    I was so frustrated I grinded a copy of said magwarden in two days, now I find instant matches again. Number of matches played seems the most consistent factor of how your mmr is determined, I personally think win/loss is also taken into consideration but has less impact than pure numbers.

    I have talked to players with lower winrate than me but similar # of games played, they also suffer the long waiting time, but tend to be eligible for more games than me if we queue solo at the same time. Means, if theres enough high mmr players waiting to fill a match, after cheking number of # matches played, the system will place low win/loss rate into the match before considering high win/loss rate players.

    All based on observation, but things seem to work that way pretty consitently.
    Koma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo (MMR too high, RIP) & Mighty Mojo Monkey
  • Vaoh
    Vaoh
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    Vaoh wrote: »
    It's better now.
    There's a larger pool of people to pick from, so you're no longer fighting against all the same players for an hour or two at a time. They queue also pops much faster, not to mention I can actually pick the game modes that I want to play.

    The argument with the pre-mades..... well it's still the same as before, so it's definitely not any better or worse in that respect.

    This isn't true for high mmr characters, we get stuck fighting almost specifically premades and queued into games as a replacement when they are nearly over because the system appears to be trying to only pair us with other players of that specific level. As well as extremely long queue times outside of the primetime, like 15-40mins.

    I have noticed that I've been thrown into the middle of games more than previously but I guess I haven't thought much of it.

    The queue times probably also come down to me playing on an under 50 DK today. Haven't played BG's on my 50s recently.

    You won't experience it then, It only happens if you have a character you have been playing in bg's on for a long time or very successfully, it has appeared recently that their is a hidden mmr on each character and if you manage to get a extremely high mmr your queue becomes hell, its either their is so few players at that mmr that you get put vs premades almost every game cause otherwise it can't fill the match or the mmr of the premade is coming out to be around your mmr or collective mmr of the pug's you are matched with and throwing you vs the premade. If you log off your high mmr character and onto a fresh one you get pretty good queue times and not put near premades very often, it seems to be character specific. People have done side by side queues, group queues, ect to test it out. Some games we will fight 3v3v4 or 2v3v4 all game. I don't think its cause there is nobody in BG queue, I think its because there isn't anyone of the appropriate bracket.

    Very few total players will even be effected probably, its just the top players and the ones who play the very most. It very much is a punishment for the most hardcore players.

    Dang. If that’s the case I’m screwed :lol: I’m consistently the highest scoring player out of everyone in my games and do extremely well whether solo or in the very occasional pre-made.

    Sounds like I’m going to go from having fun in BGs to possibly quitting BGs..... it was already bad enough that I lost my only CC (I main Mag Warden) but now I won’t even get into games? Plus those few games I even get into will queue me into the middle of a match? Sounds like I’m going to get severely punished for playing well. I hope these complaints from people are exaggerated.

    Has been tested by ultiple BG veterans, including me. My almost 1k matches played magwarden doesnt find a game without waiting 20-30 min before each match. No exaggeration, a timer is prohibiting this char to find any match before that time stamp.

    I was so frustrated I grinded a copy of said magwarden in two days, now I find instant matches again. Number of matches played seems the most consistent factor of how your mmr is determined, I personally think win/loss is also taken into consideration but has less impact than pure numbers.

    I have talked to players with lower winrate than me but similar # of games played, they also suffer the long waiting time, but tend to be eligible for more games than me if we queue solo at the same time. Means, if theres enough high mmr players waiting to fill a match, after cheking number of # matches played, the system will place low win/loss rate into the match before considering high win/loss rate players.

    All based on observation, but things seem to work that way pretty consitently.

    Ahh I see. Thank you for the info. Sad to hear this :(

    I’ll definitely try to play BGs in Summerset for like a month, but will stop entirely if it turns out this way.
  • ecru
    ecru
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    If you're losing roughly two thirds of your games, then the system is "better" or "working". If anyone here is close to a 50% win or loss rate (or higher), then ZOS has done a very poor job of implementing a matchmaking system.

    Has anyone actually tracked their wins/losses over a period of time since the patch?
    Gryphon Heart
  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    Better before Summerset
    ecru wrote: »
    If you're losing roughly two thirds of your games, then the system is "better" or "working". If anyone here is close to a 50% win or loss rate (or higher), then ZOS has done a very poor job of implementing a matchmaking system.

    Has anyone actually tracked their wins/losses over a period of time since the patch?

    i'm just curious - why do you think "win rate" has something to do with MMR?

    It is absolutely not a factor on the current MMR placements. Are you saying that it'll change based on that?
    PC NA - Thogard / Sir Thogalot / Thoggy Boi jr / Thogaine / El Thogardo

    twitch.tv/ThogardPvP
  • ecru
    ecru
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    Thogard wrote: »
    ecru wrote: »
    If you're losing roughly two thirds of your games, then the system is "better" or "working". If anyone here is close to a 50% win or loss rate (or higher), then ZOS has done a very poor job of implementing a matchmaking system.

    Has anyone actually tracked their wins/losses over a period of time since the patch?

    i'm just curious - why do you think "win rate" has something to do with MMR?

    It is absolutely not a factor on the current MMR placements. Are you saying that it'll change based on that?

    I don't know if you can say for sure that it's not a factor since you can't see your ELO right now.

    The goal of a good matchmaking system is to match players up against opponents of equal skill. Ideally these matches between players of equal skill (assuming two players or two teams) end up 50/50. Your ELO climbs or falls depending on your performance until you "settle in" to a range where players of equal skill are present, leading to your win rate to be roughly 50%.

    If you throw another team or player into the mix, this 50/50 outcome changes to only one team or person winning, and two losing. You can't win half of your games when two teams are present because two teams have to lose every single time.
    Gryphon Heart
  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    Better before Summerset
    ecru wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    ecru wrote: »
    If you're losing roughly two thirds of your games, then the system is "better" or "working". If anyone here is close to a 50% win or loss rate (or higher), then ZOS has done a very poor job of implementing a matchmaking system.

    Has anyone actually tracked their wins/losses over a period of time since the patch?

    i'm just curious - why do you think "win rate" has something to do with MMR?

    It is absolutely not a factor on the current MMR placements. Are you saying that it'll change based on that?

    I don't know if you can say for sure that it's not a factor since you can't see your ELO right now.

    The goal of a good matchmaking system is to match players up against opponents of equal skill. Ideally these matches between players of equal skill (assuming two players or two teams) end up 50/50. Your ELO climbs or falls depending on your performance until you "settle in" to a range where players of equal skill are present, leading to your win rate to be roughly 50%.

    If you throw another team or player into the mix, this 50/50 outcome changes to only one team or person winning, and two losing. You can't win half of your games when two teams are present because two teams have to lose every single time.

    no but i can see my win rates and my games played, and rule out win rate as a factor...

    maybe total # of wins, but I am 100% certain it is something cumulative.
    PC NA - Thogard / Sir Thogalot / Thoggy Boi jr / Thogaine / El Thogardo

    twitch.tv/ThogardPvP
  • CO_Gibbs
    CO_Gibbs
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    Better before Summerset
    If you are on a toon with a lot of BG's played (like 1k+), it's hopelessly broken, pretty much not worth q'ing.

    All my solo Q's result in facing at least 1 premade, 7 of my 8 matches yesterday started with 3 v 4 v 4, most did not fill until very late or not at all. The update should be rolled back, and the Q should only pit grouped players vs grouped players, and solo q'ers vs solo q'ers. If this system was implemented I would not be surprised to see q times drastically reduced.

    It was bad before for seasoned players. It's absolutely awful now.
    PC NA. 'Gibbs - G'ibbs - Gibbs'
  • Vaoh
    Vaoh
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    CO_Gibbs wrote: »
    If you are on a toon with a lot of BG's played (like 1k+), it's hopelessly broken, pretty much not worth q'ing.

    All my solo Q's result in facing at least 1 premade, 7 of my 8 matches yesterday started with 3 v 4 v 4, most did not fill until very late or not at all. The update should be rolled back, and the Q should only pit grouped players vs grouped players, and solo q'ers vs solo q'ers. If this system was implemented I would not be surprised to see q times drastically reduced.

    It was bad before for seasoned players. It's absolutely awful now.

    Even as a solo player queuing up, I didn’t mind most premades because the matchmaking system was quick. I got into games 2/3 times within 30sec or less. Plus the premade groups tended to suck anyway lol. It was only on rare occasion a premade was organized enough to wreck everyone.

    I hope that ZOS is willing to revert their changes if it’ll ruin my experience as a skilled, long time BG player. Otherwise I simply won’t play.
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