Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

@Solariken Ty for tagging and be assured none of the named skills is used by my stamplar
While I am all in for revolution, I guess the skill advisor will remain telling newbies to stick with the ill-adviced options. So, no matter what we decide to do ... or not do, Zeni has ways to create their own numbers.

@Minno nice idea for purge getting a stam morph, sounds good.
Not sure how you play that stamplar of yours... I try to keep shuffle up at all times (and yes i know ppl are complaining about it, too... but I feel I either go shuffle or rely on rune focus (i.e. the worst implementation of class based major defence buff) ...)

@all Generally I enjoy reading your ideas and suggestions and I really hope the feedback is taken into account. For myself I am not actively building at the moment, my morrowind setup is good enough for questing and the little PVE/PVP I do atm. Adding to it, I feel alot has been said already, the problems and pain points are known and have remained unaltered with last patch. Changes due to jewellery offers some diversity, but from what I was able to test on PTS, the basic problem of stamplars not having good class support and relying heavily on "everyones option" remains, no matter the role. Imo this is just making the situation more difficult as it increases the gap to classes that have strengthes within their class skills and can build on them.

I would love to hear some comment on how templars are envisioned to be played. What are their strength? What defines the play of a templar tank? Or a templar DD? @ZOS_GinaBruno there are quite a number of reasonable, passionate and generally peaceful templars eager to start moving. Can you please tell us which direction we are heading to?

Addressing your last bit here. I'm sick and slowly coming out of what feels like the worst Con Crud I've ever had, but here goes, my idea of what a Templar can be in a few short archetypes:

To start this off, one must figure out what exactly sets a Templar apart from others, and that should be the most obvious via it's name; they're the religious ones. In a world of Magic and such religion wouldn't stand out as something weird and controversial solely by it's existence alone, and as such in Elder Scrolls, the Divines and their worship thereof are what marks a Templar. Additional, other deities may be worshiped to obtain Templar status, such as Meridia or Azura, and of course there can be "evil" and "dark" templars as well via worshiping the House Of Troubles (such dickheads, I swear), but the idea still remains the same; you're basically a cleric.

That said, the degree to which one worships and preaches the good word may vary, and that's what the idea of a Tank Templar and Stamina DPS Templar would be. For a Tan, it'd be the standard and traditional Paladin/Crusader type, the knight that uses the divine light of <insert divine thing> to smite foes and empower their selves to protect their allies. Real basic, yet always effective and hilariously easy to write. You wear the heavy armor, you can maybe be overzealous as well as even cynical, but you're there, on the front lines, doing your thing. I see this in ESO as the tank that may not have the best CC as say a Dragonknight would, but they'd be the more tankier ones, the ones that eat attacks like they're nothing because Julianos and Stendarr are on their side. Moderate Tank DPS, Meh CC, but HELLA survivability.

For Stamina Damage Dealing Templars, I imagine it would be one of two things; the good old fashioned "Judge" type, who goes around judging foes and such (kinda boring if you ask me tbh), or the Monster Hunter, what the Dawnguard are in Skyrim after Modding makes them not garbage. Basically a Witcher with a purpose beyond just gold; they use tools, traps, their weapon, but augment all of it with their Divine Sun Magicks, and stalk beasts and on occasion man for the greater good of all. Pretty basic and nigh stereotypical, but way more interesting than "I R Stendarr, hear me roar!" This leaves the door open for various vagrant archetypes, wandering knights and clerics and slayers that devote themselves to varying degrees to a deity or pantheon and dishes out the judgement that must be dished out.

Gameplay wise, we're almost there actually, using weapon and guild skill lines to do the main job and using our class skills as a supplement to make it all the more potent, we just need some minor changes such as better Ultimates, Blazing Spear being a Stamina Scaled Skill, and better passives to help us synergize better with our skills and passively boost our sustain.

Unrelated note, I just made some amazing ass honey glazed porkchops and good lord I am sexy for it.

thawks wrote: »

All of the Templar skill books are directly related to Stendarr.

• The Precepts of Stendarr
• Stendarr's Divine Spear
• Aura of the Righteous
• The Four Abominations
• The Friend of All Mortals

However, that doesn't mean your Templar character has to worship Stendarr. A relevant quote from the last book on the list:

Call him Stendarr, call him Stuhn, call him what you will, but the God of Mercy and Justice is the friend to all the mortals of the Mundus, whether they acknowledge him or not. Yea, even the heretic Dark Elves of Morrowind may use his magic of defense and healing, even so the scaled folk of Argonia, for Stendarr in his benevolence draws no distinction between those who rightfully worship him and those who, in their ignorance and error, do not.

Minno wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

@Solariken Ty for tagging and be assured none of the named skills is used by my stamplar
While I am all in for revolution, I guess the skill advisor will remain telling newbies to stick with the ill-adviced options. So, no matter what we decide to do ... or not do, Zeni has ways to create their own numbers.

@Minno nice idea for purge getting a stam morph, sounds good.
Not sure how you play that stamplar of yours... I try to keep shuffle up at all times (and yes i know ppl are complaining about it, too... but I feel I either go shuffle or rely on rune focus (i.e. the worst implementation of class based major defence buff) ...)

@all Generally I enjoy reading your ideas and suggestions and I really hope the feedback is taken into account. For myself I am not actively building at the moment, my morrowind setup is good enough for questing and the little PVE/PVP I do atm. Adding to it, I feel alot has been said already, the problems and pain points are known and have remained unaltered with last patch. Changes due to jewellery offers some diversity, but from what I was able to test on PTS, the basic problem of stamplars not having good class support and relying heavily on "everyones option" remains, no matter the role. Imo this is just making the situation more difficult as it increases the gap to classes that have strengthes within their class skills and can build on them.

I would love to hear some comment on how templars are envisioned to be played. What are their strength? What defines the play of a templar tank? Or a templar DD? @ZOS_GinaBruno there are quite a number of reasonable, passionate and generally peaceful templars eager to start moving. Can you please tell us which direction we are heading to?

Addressing your last bit here. I'm sick and slowly coming out of what feels like the worst Con Crud I've ever had, but here goes, my idea of what a Templar can be in a few short archetypes:

To start this off, one must figure out what exactly sets a Templar apart from others, and that should be the most obvious via it's name; they're the religious ones. In a world of Magic and such religion wouldn't stand out as something weird and controversial solely by it's existence alone, and as such in Elder Scrolls, the Divines and their worship thereof are what marks a Templar. Additional, other deities may be worshiped to obtain Templar status, such as Meridia or Azura, and of course there can be "evil" and "dark" templars as well via worshiping the House Of Troubles (such dickheads, I swear), but the idea still remains the same; you're basically a cleric.

That said, the degree to which one worships and preaches the good word may vary, and that's what the idea of a Tank Templar and Stamina DPS Templar would be. For a Tan, it'd be the standard and traditional Paladin/Crusader type, the knight that uses the divine light of <insert divine thing> to smite foes and empower their selves to protect their allies. Real basic, yet always effective and hilariously easy to write. You wear the heavy armor, you can maybe be overzealous as well as even cynical, but you're there, on the front lines, doing your thing. I see this in ESO as the tank that may not have the best CC as say a Dragonknight would, but they'd be the more tankier ones, the ones that eat attacks like they're nothing because Julianos and Stendarr are on their side. Moderate Tank DPS, Meh CC, but HELLA survivability.

For Stamina Damage Dealing Templars, I imagine it would be one of two things; the good old fashioned "Judge" type, who goes around judging foes and such (kinda boring if you ask me tbh), or the Monster Hunter, what the Dawnguard are in Skyrim after Modding makes them not garbage. Basically a Witcher with a purpose beyond just gold; they use tools, traps, their weapon, but augment all of it with their Divine Sun Magicks, and stalk beasts and on occasion man for the greater good of all. Pretty basic and nigh stereotypical, but way more interesting than "I R Stendarr, hear me roar!" This leaves the door open for various vagrant archetypes, wandering knights and clerics and slayers that devote themselves to varying degrees to a deity or pantheon and dishes out the judgement that must be dished out.

Gameplay wise, we're almost there actually, using weapon and guild skill lines to do the main job and using our class skills as a supplement to make it all the more potent, we just need some minor changes such as better Ultimates, Blazing Spear being a Stamina Scaled Skill, and better passives to help us synergize better with our skills and passively boost our sustain.

Unrelated note, I just made some amazing ass honey glazed porkchops and good lord I am sexy for it.

Templars are based on the worship of Stendarr. Go and help those in need, mess up vamps, and heal those you can:

thawks wrote: »

All of the Templar skill books are directly related to Stendarr.

• The Precepts of Stendarr
• Stendarr's Divine Spear
• Aura of the Righteous
• The Four Abominations
• The Friend of All Mortals

However, that doesn't mean your Templar character has to worship Stendarr. A relevant quote from the last book on the list:

Call him Stendarr, call him Stuhn, call him what you will, but the God of Mercy and Justice is the friend to all the mortals of the Mundus, whether they acknowledge him or not. Yea, even the heretic Dark Elves of Morrowind may use his magic of defense and healing, even so the scaled folk of Argonia, for Stendarr in his benevolence draws no distinction between those who rightfully worship him and those who, in their ignorance and error, do not.

"Smiting all that is unholy,
Transfixing it with point and glow,
Elevates us with its aura,
Nullifies the wicked foe.
Daedra, undead, beasts and manbeasts,
Abominations it strikes down.
Re-anoint us, stalwart Stendarr,
Resolute with spear and crown!"

usmcjdking wrote: »

But is this a case of templar being underpowered, or the other classes being improperly balanced. I'd venture to say the latter.

usmcjdking wrote: »

I think the lens templar main's tend to look at the templar class is the wrong lens to be looking through.

It is clearly evident that Templar does not have the array of capabilities the other classes have, stamina templar being the single most limiting of the available classes in the game skill selection wise - magplar not being all too far behind.

But is this a case of templar being underpowered, or the other classes being improperly balanced. I'd venture to say the latter.

This unfortunately leaves us in the predicament where allowing the class to perform on the level of other classes will make it clearly overpowered and put it squarely in the same realm as the other classes. It will satisfy templar mains, make for easier work on the developers and create long-term balance issues as the devs keep adding new 'features', CPs, gear and whatever else they can.

usmcjdking wrote: »

I think the lens templar main's tend to look at the templar class is the wrong lens to be looking through.

It is clearly evident that Templar does not have the array of capabilities the other classes have, stamina templar being the single most limiting of the available classes in the game skill selection wise - magplar not being all too far behind.

But is this a case of templar being underpowered, or the other classes being improperly balanced. I'd venture to say the latter.

This unfortunately leaves us in the predicament where allowing the class to perform on the level of other classes will make it clearly overpowered and put it squarely in the same realm as the other classes. It will satisfy templar mains, make for easier work on the developers and create long-term balance issues as the devs keep adding new 'features', CPs, gear and whatever else they can.

Xsorus wrote: »

Its weird, I'm enjoying my Magicka Templar even more in Summerset...

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

As an appendix to what I previously wrote, consider for a moment how narrowly defined the Templar passives are. Templar has very few passives which are useful outside of the class skills themselves. This is not the case with other classes. Dragon Knight for instance gets bonuses to things like all ultimates, blocking in all cases, fire aoe damage bonuses, poison aoe damage bonuses, etc. I am not singling out DK in any way as this kind of design element is apparent in other classes (consider the passive regeneration bonuses, cost reduction bonuses, etc of things like Wardens, Sorcerers and Nightblades.) I do not want to make an exhaustive comparison but I believe it is very clear. When a Templar procs burning light or such it really only works on a couple of skills within the class. This makes Templar very narrowly defined, very boring. Worse still, almost everything that makes a Templar good resides outside of the Templar class. Do you see my problem? Throw in the fact that the motions of the class are herky-jerky and you sum up in broad strokes why I think Templar is a dumpster fire.