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ZOS- please stop the power creep- you've made your own content redundant.
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Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Telling someone to intentionally handicap their character for difficulty is like telling a kid that is bored with their school work to try to do it on LSD instead of giving them something more challenging to work on.
Every time I get someone to try the game it's the same thing. I cheer them on with "don't worry, it gets better!" Of course they want to play together so I'll create a new character and go naked, unallocated, but it's still just the open world/delves/public dungeons to start so we pretty much take turns hitting things.. I'll back off and be like "yeah, kill it!" while I watch. It's terribly boring and difficult to get them hooked on the promise that some dungeons and PvP will eventually be engaging.
Then it's hilarious when we do finally get into PvP and they quickly die to someone they can't even scratch. Having no difficulty in most of the game prepares you for nothing. It's the same reason that newbies get kicked from vet dungeon groups they innocently queued for at CP100 because the game told them to. I can't DPS wearing all heavy using a bow with my magicka abilities? What's going on?
I'd be fine with them removing CP. I'd be fine with them never increasing the gear level. I'd actually prefer these things, so I'm not wanting the typical treadmill of "make it harder" followed by "give me more stuff to make it trivial", rinse, repeat. I just want to adventure with the character I've built the same way that I want to play a FPS without turning on console cheats. I just want to kill some stuff that can kill me.
Nobody should expect some vet DLC dungeons and vet trials to be enough content to for an MMO that keeps pumping out expansions/DLCs that you keep paying for. Would it really ruin the elder scrolls experience to have new areas, like 5% of the open world, that were supposed to be difficult for everyone? That's even assuming that it's really a good thing that the rest of the world is "supposed" to be so easy in it's entirety that someone who learns absolutely nothing about the game/is encouraged to never adapt/improve.
The majority of the world is too easy and every expansion/DLC mostly increases this portion of the game. There has to be some sort of compromise. ESO expansion areas make GW2 look like Dark Souls.
Tried GW2's expansion area's. This is an apt comparison.
But I honestly dont think that ESO's wrong for being that easy. The question is, really, do people wanna play a game where they gotta do research just to do basic questing?
Given the success of ESO's solo content, survey says no.
IMO we're sort of jumping from one extreme to another here. Some people are talking about open world/overland stuff and some people are mentioning how hard vet DLC dungeons are. I don't think you'd have to necessarily up the difficulty on all open world content or not make vet DLC dungeons a little easier in some cases... it wouldn't make sense to paint with one broad brush across the entire game. I'm simply stating the majority of the environment is extremely easy by any MMO bar that I'm aware of.
They could make some open world maps harder.. they could adjust scaling as it affects higher CPs.. they could even get clever with something like having brutal assassin NPCs hunt down high CP players down the longer they fight in the open world.
But the question is would there be enough interest to justify it? And given we dont have access to the numbers, we dunno.0 -
DoctorESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »You can make yourself weaker and the game more challenging by removing your CP allocation.
And this helps balancing out PvE for low-cp players and high cp players, CP PvP for low & high cps and no cp PvP all at the same time while it stops nerfing classes and skills to compensate for the ever increasing power creep?
Yes, I suppose removing CP, or at least putting a final cap on it, would stop the power creep.0 -
Dreyloch✭✭✭✭✭Not sure if anyone said this already, but couldn't you just "not" put the points in? I don't PvE much, so idk if that would still allow you to do dungeons based on your total CP's and not how many you have allocated. But seems to me if that's your gripe OP, then just don't use them?"The fear of Death, is often worse than death itself"2 -
DoctorESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Not sure if anyone said this already, but couldn't you just "not" put the points in? I don't PvE much, so idk if that would still allow you to do dungeons based on your total CP's and not how many you have allocated. But seems to me if that's your gripe OP, then just don't use them?
Yes, I said that.
You can make yourself weaker and the game more challenging by removing your CP allocation.
1 -
MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Not sure if anyone said this already, but couldn't you just "not" put the points in? I don't PvE much, so idk if that would still allow you to do dungeons based on your total CP's and not how many you have allocated. But seems to me if that's your gripe OP, then just don't use them?
This isn't going to make overland mobs any smarter.They are still going fight like ***.1 -
kind_hero✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If the content is to easy then try resetting your CP and play without them, see if the content is the same.
As a semi-casual player, the content is OK for me, and the CP system is what made this game interesting for me after I got fed up with the old system, with veteran levels. I quit because of those levels. I played Wow for a long time and did not want any more level brackets, changing gear every time some update comes up, and all that grinding. One Tamriel made this MMO friendly to a lot of potential players, including myself.
You are asking to make things harder.. but you can create your own challenges, plus there are many veteran trials and challenges that you can do. If you did all that, then you have burned the content, congratz, you can move to an other game..
Maybe something that is needed, is to have 2 sets of champion points configurations, like in other game, to have two builds that you can switch depending on your role. I would like to have a healer build and a dd build, so I can switch whenever I want.
[PC/EU] Tamriel Hero, Stormproof, Grand Master Crafter0 -
Adernath✭✭✭✭✭I think most people who have obligations against the OP are not understanding that with every DLC the entire game content becomes easier and easier. Not only because of the CP increase, but also because of the adjustment of the XP curve. This is a development which finally leads to complete absence of any challenge, even for the most causal players.
Therefore the system really needs to be looked into.0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭.......If you take vMA, some years ago the best players ran this in 1h 30m. Then the benchmark shifted to under an hour. Now the best ones run it under 30 minutes. It was never intended to be like that.
Experience does more to reduce your time on a vMA run than CP. vMA isn´t exactly new content. The reason magicka users for example get insane scores in vMA is 100% due to the perfected asylum staff, not because of "CP-power creep". And 600k scores was almost possible a few years ago, when CP-cap was a lot lower than today.
Edited by Qbiken on May 25, 2018 8:51AM0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Qbiken
Andy S. and LZH for example were running 600k+ scores with under 30 minutes total time long before vAS was even in the game. I don't deny better gear is a contributing factor too. But in the end, the older content never gets adjusted while players get more powerful every 3 months.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Qbiken
Andy S. and LZH for example were running 600k+ scores with under 30 minutes total time long before vAS was even in the game. I don't deny better gear is a contributing factor too. But in the end, the older content never gets adjusted while players get more powerful every 3 months.
Fair point. But looking from ZOS perspective it would probably be easier to "re-scale" older content rather than creating a whole new system that should replace the current CP-system. And personally I think ZOS should stop adding 30 points each new update, While I don´t want CP removed (since I like the system) it does feel kind of pointless adding more at this point.1 -
aeowulf✭✭✭✭✭Facefister wrote: »What is diminishing returns? The power you get from CP isn't linear.
Yep, exactly that.0 -
Rawkan✭✭✭✭✭It is annoying that if you have a decent amount of CP everything dies before it can touch you.0 -
gnarlyvandal✭✭✭I’ve seen threads like this repeated over and over since I’ve come back to the game.
To be fair I’ve commented in agreement with a few BUT....
I’ve changed my mind and reckon CP is a pretty good system. Here are my thoughts:
1) I don’t feel like I’m losing out by levelling an alt; the time it takes to level and obtain enough skill points to be competitive is pretty minimal (roughly 10 hours).
2) The feeling of progression whilst levelling CP is satisfying, damage steadily increases and it keeps me coming back to the game, unlike other MMO’s
3) I agree that power creep is an issue, and many players have suggested a veteran overland which would be nice, but honestly I think the only change that needs to be made would be to increase the health of quest bosses to roughly half of the world bosses, so they don’t die to less than one full rotation, even on alts.
Would make questing more satisfying without making lower level players unable to complete content; this would provide double benefit as it would at least mean new players could learn not to stand in the red circles of doom0 -
DanteYoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭As a non CP customer i do not find open world easy.. These so called hardcores whining about easy content need to be nerfed, not the whole population forced into harder content and then forced to leave..
If Zos makes open world PvE harder that just destroys new customers joining the game and then ends ESO..
Think before you ask for stupid things.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Telling someone to intentionally handicap their character for difficulty is like telling a kid that is bored with their school work to try to do it on LSD instead of giving them something more challenging to work on.
Every time I get someone to try the game it's the same thing. I cheer them on with "don't worry, it gets better!" Of course they want to play together so I'll create a new character and go naked, unallocated, but it's still just the open world/delves/public dungeons to start so we pretty much take turns hitting things.. I'll back off and be like "yeah, kill it!" while I watch. It's terribly boring and difficult to get them hooked on the promise that some dungeons and PvP will eventually be engaging.
Then it's hilarious when we do finally get into PvP and they quickly die to someone they can't even scratch. Having no difficulty in most of the game prepares you for nothing. It's the same reason that newbies get kicked from vet dungeon groups they innocently queued for at CP100 because the game told them to. I can't DPS wearing all heavy using a bow with my magicka abilities? What's going on?
I'd be fine with them removing CP. I'd be fine with them never increasing the gear level. I'd actually prefer these things, so I'm not wanting the typical treadmill of "make it harder" followed by "give me more stuff to make it trivial", rinse, repeat. I just want to adventure with the character I've built the same way that I want to play a FPS without turning on console cheats. I just want to kill some stuff that can kill me.
Nobody should expect some vet DLC dungeons and vet trials to be enough content to for an MMO that keeps pumping out expansions/DLCs that you keep paying for. Would it really ruin the elder scrolls experience to have new areas, like 5% of the open world, that were supposed to be difficult for everyone? That's even assuming that it's really a good thing that the rest of the world is "supposed" to be so easy in it's entirety that someone who learns absolutely nothing about the game/is encouraged to never adapt/improve.
The majority of the world is too easy and every expansion/DLC mostly increases this portion of the game. There has to be some sort of compromise. ESO expansion areas make GW2 look like Dark Souls.
Tried GW2's expansion area's. This is an apt comparison.
But I honestly dont think that ESO's wrong for being that easy. The question is, really, do people wanna play a game where they gotta do research just to do basic questing?
Given the success of ESO's solo content, survey says no.
I left and uninstalled GW2 after HoT i will never be going back to GW2, and i know many others left too.. Becarful what you ask for..Edited by DanteYoda on May 25, 2018 12:08PM2 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The best solution to this is to add an optional debuff that players can choose to apply to themselves to make them far weaker.
The problem with telling end game players to nerf themselves is the fact that this costs gold, potentially quite a bit of gold, every time you do it. And considering most end game players tend to jump between multiple forms of content, they could easily burn through tens, even hundreds of thousands of gold in a day, if they do switch regularly. And even then, it doesn't remove the actual advantage you have as an end game player: you know how the game works.
Adding a debuff which alters your stats, both reducing the damage you deal and increasing the damage you take, similar to how Battle Spirit works, would solve both problems. It would only apply in overland zones, and so the player wouldn't even need to touch it when switching between overland, dungeons, Cyrodiil, trials, Battlegrounds, etc. It could also allow players to fine tune their difficulty, so they could make it just the right level of difficulty. And it would mean that end game players would actually have to use their knowledge of the game's mechanics to survive.0 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭gnarlyvandal wrote: »3) I agree that power creep is an issue, and many players have suggested a veteran overland which would be nice, but honestly I think the only change that needs to be made would be to increase the health of quest bosses to roughly half of the world bosses, so they don’t die to less than one full rotation, even on alts.
Would make questing more satisfying without making lower level players unable to complete content; this would provide double benefit as it would at least mean new players could learn not to stand in the red circles of doom
The problem here is that:
1. It would take newer players, who deal far less damage than end game players with fully built characters, way longer to kill these buffed mobs, and.
2. This would just turn mobs into damage sponges. The problem with overland as an end game player is that mobs die too quickly, and mobs deal very little damage. As an end game player, I don't need to bother about blocking that heavy attack, because it's just inconvenient, not lethal. To make overland truly more difficult, mobs need to be buffed in both their health, and their damage. Or, as my last comment suggested, we need to be nerfed in terms of our damage, and our mitigation.
Edited by jcm2606 on May 25, 2018 12:21PM2 -
Adernath✭✭✭✭✭As a non CP customer i do not find open world easy.. These so called hardcores whining about easy content need to be nerfed, not the whole population forced into harder content and then forced to leave..
If Zos makes open world PvE harder that just destroys new customers joining the game and then ends ESO..
Think before you ask for stupid things.
This is a perfect example of someone who does not understand anything the original post of this thread was about.
The point is that content gets easier because of the power creep. We had a cap of 600, 630, 660, 690, 720 and now 750 etc... and it takes about the same amount of time to reach max CP due to the XP curve adjustment. On the other hand, all monsters in the overland content remain at the same difficulty. Obviously this direction makes the game becoming obsolete even for the most causal player, in particular in regards of the original zones. Its not that we necessarily want harder content, but at least we want that the game remains at a certain difficulty level.
Besides of that, there are repeated demands to make DLC overland content suitable for veteran players only and stop the policy to introduce a beginner tutorial in these zones. There is plenty enough zones for beginners already in the game, we do not need more beginner zones.3 -
Adernath✭✭✭✭✭Two words:
Difficulty Slider
Unless there would be specific achievements and rewards by using a hardcore mode, this would not solve anything, because whenever people find content too hard they simply could make it easier by setting the slider back. On top of this it would create much more work in development for little gain, basically the entire existing world would have to be overworked.
The simplest solution is to stop the power creep and leave the game in its current difficulty level while adjusting specific world and quest bosses by hand.0 -
MerlinPendragon✭✭✭✭The entire game needs an increase in difficulty... not some optional buff to weaken yourself or the suggestion you wipe all your CP._____________________________________
Merlin Pendragon - Uther Pendragon - The Lady of the Lake - Sir Lancelot1 -
DuskMarine✭✭✭✭✭
✭As a non CP customer i do not find open world easy.. These so called hardcores whining about easy content need to be nerfed, not the whole population forced into harder content and then forced to leave..
If Zos makes open world PvE harder that just destroys new customers joining the game and then ends ESO..
Think before you ask for stupid things.
This is a perfect example of someone who does not understand anything the original post of this thread was about.
The point is that content gets easier because of the power creep. We had a cap of 600, 630, 660, 690, 720 and now 750 etc... and it takes about the same amount of time to reach max CP due to the XP curve adjustment. On the other hand, all monsters in the overland content remain at the same difficulty. Obviously this direction makes the game becoming obsolete even for the most causal player, in particular in regards of the original zones. Its not that we necessarily want harder content, but at least we want that the game remains at a certain difficulty level.
Besides of that, there are repeated demands to make DLC overland content suitable for veteran players only and stop the policy to introduce a beginner tutorial in these zones. There is plenty enough zones for beginners already in the game, we do not need more beginner zones.
heres the thing casuals are not meant for mmos their for hardcore gamers period. but your power creep(which is nonexistant these days) is basically just pvpers constantly yelling in pvp. well i can tell you why the game will never ever be balanced heres why..................YOU CANNOT BALANCE A HUMAN BEING.................a person will always come up with some way to kill you. in pve they just need to ramp up the difficulty from zone to zone and itll solve all pve problems(and quit nerfing pve together with pvp stupidest system ever no other mmo does this). but there is a huge difference when you talk veteran vs casual players in a pvp situation and why youll never balance it no matter what you tweak cause a human being has 3 advantages they can get. advantage 1. their internet is alot better than yours or alot worse making you basically a sitting duck. advantage 2 the person knows what their doing and has worked everything out perfectly for themselves and have just outsmarted and killed you. or advantage 3. a veteran player easily should have the ability to destroy someone who put in maybe half the effort they did hands down end of story. you can ramp down an npc to make it less evil and damaging but youll never dumb down a human no matter what you change its why no game will ever be balanced, because humans are always changing and coming up with new ideas.0 -
efduncanub17_ESO✭✭✭I would love to see them go towards a more traditional level system...we should be getting massive expacs like WOW...with 2-3 additional raids in a season...with new dungeons at the beginning of every expac...whats the point like as a healer ive been running the same gear for almost 4 years...ohh now I get another slightly better SPC with Orolime and still running a set from 3 plus years ago with it0 -
RavenSworn✭✭✭✭✭What makes it worse is that only a minority even visit the forum. If there was an official poll made about this, linked from the launcher so everyone was aware of it, then the response to the options would be to simply maintain the status quo.
Many games have tried to appease the hardcore.
Champions Online did it. Dead.
Wildstar did it. Dead.
Battleborn did it. Dead.
Why do you think that ESO has continued GW2 levels of popularity? It's because the game can be played with a minimal amount of grind and generally in a stress-free way, which is what most players want. The majority actually want a stress-free game. I'm actually annoyed that they're out of touch enough to think that group dungeons appeal to a number larger than 5 per cent of their playerbase. Studies done on MMOs have shown -- time and again -- that hardcore raiders, group dungeon players, and PvP players are a tiny minority compared to everyone else.
The largest group? Small group players, 2-3 players in a team who play regularly. Followed by solo players.
And the thing is is that in order to do some of the content someone has to play a 'difficult' class, and if people can't always play together that means soloing. If you're in a duo but sometimes you have to do things apart, then it'd be an absolute chore to wander around a world suited for a group of 5 or more.
Could you imagine the hell that resource gathering would become?
Honestly, if ZOS did poll the community, all of the community, I'd be willing to put down a grand on the vast majority of players not wanting things to get harder. In fact, part of that bet would be that they'd want the following:
* PvE Cyrodiil map;
* Public/group/trial dungeons that scale down to solo play;
* World bosses that can be tackled solo.
I'm not saying that ZOS should stop developing for the small minorities of PvP or hardcore raiding because that would be unempathetic, just that it would be more forward thinking to allow everyone to play this content. Because that's what the vast majority of people want.
When people think of MMOs, I see questions come up often about them:
"Do I have to do group raid dungeons? I hate those. It's so stressful and everyone hates one another. Do I have to do group dungeons?"
"Do I have to grind? I have a job, and I have other games to play. I'd rather just enjoy the story. So, do I need to grind my life away?"
"Do I have to PvP? I hate PvP, it's stressful and I have anxieties/disabilities so I can't even play it, anyway. Or I just don't like the competitive aspect. Do I need to PvP?"
MMOs that answer no more commonly to those questions become more popular.
The most popular MMOs are very casual and very story-focused.
What's ESO for the most part?
Very casual and very story-focused.
Hence the popularity.
If they changed it to suit what the minority wanted, it'd be dead overnight like Champions Online was when they did the same thing. They tried to appeal to the hardcore with difficulty creep (which is worse than power creep, FAR worse), and it just drove off their entire community. Now CO is dead. Wildstar is dead. Battleborn is dead. All for the same reasons.
I mean, sure, I'd be okay with having configuration options which allow for different zone versions, but how likely is that? They seem stressed for resources as it is. But that's all I'd support is the option to join a harder PvE zone, rather than just making the game harder full stop because that will kill it.
If you want ESO to live, you shouldn't ask for this. There's a mountain of dead MMOs for you to research to explain why.
Edit: Some will ask what difficulty creep is, I'll illustrate...
Hardcore Players: Make the game harder!
Developer: Okay!
Hardcore Players: More purple loot! I want to feel more badarse!
Developer: Okay!
Hardcore Players: The game is too easy, now! The purples made it too easy! I have so many numbers! Make it harder!
Developer: Okay!
Hardcore Players: The difficulty is good but the rewards aren't worth it, add better elite drops!
Developer: Okay!
Hardcore Players: The game is too easy now, make the game more difficult to suit this gear I've grinded for!
Developer: Okay!
Hardcore Players: I love this difficulty! But I feel unrewarded. REWARD ME! More epic drops! More epic! Bigger numbers!
Developer: Okay!
Hardcore Players: I can sleepwalk through content, now. Make the game harder!
Developer: Okay!
Casual Players: We can't play this, now. The base game has become impossible to play! You have to spend your life grinding the stuff right at the beginning to get even slight viability. We can't play it any more. We're all going to leave, now.
Developer: Oh no! Why is our game failing? Where did 95 per cent of our community go? It's a mystery! We'll never figure it out!
And that's how many of my favourite online games died.
Edit 2: I mean, notice that someone even asked for world bosses to be like some sort of Craglorn-esque raid boss, but one that drops super gear. That's the very definition of difficulty creep. So, when they're kitted out in amazing gear, the world bosses will be easy again. Oh no, better crank up the difficulty! Et cetera until the game dies.
Just... wear white armour. Or wear nothing. Use no weapons. There, you have your difficulty.
Amen to this.Ingame: RavenSworn, Pc / NA.
Of Wolf and Raven
Solo / Casual guild for beginners and new players wanting to join the game. Pst me for invite!0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭First thing to stop endless power creep is by removing broken system called Champion Points.
The cp system is an end game crutch tbh. They take this away and people might actually have to wear sustain and max stat sets in pve instead of just stacking damage. And in pvp it will remove all the total min maxed troll builds that totally take advantage of sets plus cp to buff the hell out of something such as defile.
Without the CPsystem no one would play the game anymore, because there would be literally no way to advance your character. And no mmo works without an infinite horizontal progression.
The reality is Zos would adjust the content to fit whatever they changed is they removed the CP system.
However, most of what is being discussed in here is very off base.
I seriously doubt most that have participated in this thread have cleared all trials in HM (not counting the newest one) and probably not many more have cleared all 4 man dungeons in HM and have no death runs in each of those dungeons.
If we were talking about serious power creep that is the kind of thing we would need to take into consideration , however, most the numbers for both criteria I put forth is still very low in the game.
Those thinking that such an idea would make overland and the every day quests challenging are fooling themselves. That will never be challenging and certainly is not the reason questing is easy. That is a valid choice Zos has made having nothing to do with CP.0 -
Amp151✭✭✭Run harder content if you want to run hard challenging content.
Overland is supposed to be easy, so ppl don't get the game then get destroyed and not have fun. Causing them to drop the game.0 -
gnarlyvandal✭✭✭gnarlyvandal wrote: »3) I agree that power creep is an issue, and many players have suggested a veteran overland which would be nice, but honestly I think the only change that needs to be made would be to increase the health of quest bosses to roughly half of the world bosses, so they don’t die to less than one full rotation, even on alts.
Would make questing more satisfying without making lower level players unable to complete content; this would provide double benefit as it would at least mean new players could learn not to stand in the red circles of doom
The problem here is that:
1. It would take newer players, who deal far less damage than end game players with fully built characters, way longer to kill these buffed mobs, and.
2. This would just turn mobs into damage sponges. The problem with overland as an end game player is that mobs die too quickly, and mobs deal very little damage. As an end game player, I don't need to bother about blocking that heavy attack, because it's just inconvenient, not lethal. To make overland truly more difficult, mobs need to be buffed in both their health, and their damage. Or, as my last comment suggested, we need to be nerfed in terms of our damage, and our mitigation.
I do understand what you mean, but I completely disagree. You’re assuming the changes have to be aimed at end game players, that isn’t even the case.
My magdk is level 10, right now I have no CP invested in that character, although I have roughly 500cp ‘in the bank’ and don’t have half my armour and jewellery slots filled. Just to reiterate, character is lvl 10 and is using zero CP.
So, right off the bat, this magdk cannot be considered end game in any way.
Yet.... When I’m doing a quest and get to the ‘boss’ of said quest, they die in literally a few hits.
Can’t remember dk’s skill names so bare with me here:
Rotation: weapon buff (flame sword), defence buff (ugly crystals), flame swipe (the mag DOT), flame lash (whip), then uppercut (the 2h stam move that takes a second to channel). Quest bosses die to this by the time I’m using my uppercut...
That is a problem. A HUGE problem. In fact, for me it is one of the only problems ESO has.
The trolls and elephants in the world have more health than quest bosses. I can’t believe that someone is so bad at the game that if they opposed one of those two ‘half elite’ mobs that they couldn’t kill it and rage quit due to the game being too hard.
EVERY game has a learning curve, yes cause of animation cancelling the curve in ESO is slightly higher than other MMO’s, but it’s not necessary to do content. If you feel it is necessary it’s not hard to learn to do, just go play a fighting game for half hour to teach yourself (street fighter, dragon ball fighterz, marvel vs capcom). Every move on those games are optimised through animation cancelling, will give you some transferable skills for gaming ;P
I’m not saying make the fights a HP grind, but adding health so that fights take more than 3 seconds would be nice. It’s so anticlimactic building up tension through the quests story to find that the enemy everybody is afraid of gets dropped before they can even finish saying the dialogue ZOS gave them. That is a PROBLEM.
No need to make the game harder, no need for enemies to deal more damage, no need for Veteran overland (although that would be fun), just give them a BIT of *** health to make me feel like I’m actually playing a game rather than grinding skill points or levels. Just because their health does need to be raised, does NOT mean it has to be raised so high ordinary players can’t beat it or spend 10 minutes+ trying to, but 30 seconds to a single minute is not exactly difficult!
Edited by gnarlyvandal on May 25, 2018 3:56PM3 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think most people who have obligations against the OP are not understanding that with every DLC the entire game content becomes easier and easier. Not only because of the CP increase, but also because of the adjustment of the XP curve. This is a development which finally leads to complete absence of any challenge, even for the most causal players.
Therefore the system really needs to be looked into.
It hasn't.
In fact the mixture of new mechanics and enemy behavior for enemies we've allready seen before in bosses has made things more difficult, I saw people die to a freaking delve boss for crying out loud.
The entire game isn't darkouls. Deal with it, and find something that caters more to your taste.2 -
TheInfernalRage✭✭✭✭✭I came from Marvel Heroes Omega and there's a system there that is similar to the CP System here. I do like it because of that. The problem is the difficulty scaling, especially for those doing questing like I do most of the time. I'm not such a good player so I can't relate to breezing through the contents. I haven't completed any trial sets, haven't finished VMA, haven't really taken vet dungeons seriously. So, I agree with the previous post by @Doctordarkspawn, that in terms of difficulty the game is not really becoming easier and easier.
My mistake when I was playing Marvel Heroes was getting to endgame in a matter of week. The game went meh after two months with the only fun really is building the more than 50 characters and getting nice gear for all of them. Raids became easier and easier at that point. I did not blame the CP-like system they have though. Just like ESO, that game also have difficulty scaling and the more your Infinity Points increase, the more powerful the toon becomes--just like here in ESO.
The problem for those who can easily destroy everything is if there's any existing content that can help contextualize the level of CP that a player already have. There should be a kind of one-player dungeon system at the hard mode level (ala Dark Souls) where death means repeating the dungeon from the beginning with no kind of saving like in VMA. There should be no option like normal or easy mode, and the mechanics should be fun enough so that the player will never even care if there's loot to be had at the end of the dungeon. In fact, there should be no loot at all and those who enter the dungeon should be there to have fun and not to receive something that will make him or her more powerful. This way, those who really want to test how powerful they have become will have an option for that greater difficulty.
Edited by TheInfernalRage on May 25, 2018 4:25PM0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭gnarlyvandal wrote: »gnarlyvandal wrote: »3) I agree that power creep is an issue, and many players have suggested a veteran overland which would be nice, but honestly I think the only change that needs to be made would be to increase the health of quest bosses to roughly half of the world bosses, so they don’t die to less than one full rotation, even on alts.
Would make questing more satisfying without making lower level players unable to complete content; this would provide double benefit as it would at least mean new players could learn not to stand in the red circles of doom
The problem here is that:
1. It would take newer players, who deal far less damage than end game players with fully built characters, way longer to kill these buffed mobs, and.
2. This would just turn mobs into damage sponges. The problem with overland as an end game player is that mobs die too quickly, and mobs deal very little damage. As an end game player, I don't need to bother about blocking that heavy attack, because it's just inconvenient, not lethal. To make overland truly more difficult, mobs need to be buffed in both their health, and their damage. Or, as my last comment suggested, we need to be nerfed in terms of our damage, and our mitigation.
I do understand what you mean, but I completely disagree. You’re assuming the changes have to be aimed at end game players, that isn’t even the case.
My magdk is level 10, right now I have no CP invested in that character, although I have roughly 500cp ‘in the bank’ and don’t have half my armour and jewellery slots filled. Just to reiterate, character is lvl 10 and is using zero CP.
So, right off the bat, this magdk cannot be considered end game in any way.
Yet.... When I’m doing a quest and get to the ‘boss’ of said quest, they die in literally a few hits.
Can’t remember dk’s skill names so bare with me here:
Rotation: weapon buff (flame sword), defence buff (ugly crystals), flame swipe (the mag DOT), flame lash (whip), then uppercut (the 2h stam move that takes a second to channel). Quest bosses die to this by the time I’m using my uppercut...
That is a problem. A HUGE problem. In fact, for me it is one of the only problems ESO has.
The trolls and elephants in the world have more health than quest bosses. I can’t believe that someone is so bad at the game that if they opposed one of those two ‘half elite’ mobs that they couldn’t kill it and rage quit due to the game being too hard.
EVERY game has a learning curve, yes cause of animation cancelling the curve in ESO is slightly higher than other MMO’s, but it’s not necessary to do content. If you feel it is necessary it’s not hard to learn to do, just go play a fighting game for half hour to teach yourself (street fighter, dragon ball fighterz, marvel vs capcom). Every move on those games are optimised through animation cancelling, will give you some transferable skills for gaming ;P
I’m not saying make the fights a HP grind, but adding health so that fights take more than 3 seconds would be nice. It’s so anticlimactic building up tension through the quests story to find that the enemy everybody is afraid of gets dropped before they can even finish saying the dialogue ZOS gave them. That is a PROBLEM.
No need to make the game harder, no need for enemies to deal more damage, no need for Veteran overland (although that would be fun), just give them a BIT of *** health to make me feel like I’m actually playing a game rather than grinding skill points or levels. Just because their health does need to be raised, does NOT mean it has to be raised so high ordinary players can’t beat it or spend 10 minutes+ trying to, but 30 seconds to a single minute is not exactly difficult!
This!
I usually play PvE with my GF, that I'd describe as a casual eso player, while myself is also far from l33t. No optimised builds, she's nowhere near CP cap, not even golded out gear. And still she finds it very disappointing that even quest line's final bosses die before a rotation is laid down.
Just like you said, very anticlimatic for those very nicely written quests to have no climax from a gameplay pov.
Sometimes enemies feel more like a chore than a fun obstacle. Very suboptimal for a video game.
If 'd want to simply experience a story with not the slightest of a challenge I'd read a book or watch a movie instead.
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