Doesn't seem like you're describing a problem with Nightblades, more like a problem with every other class.

brandonv516 wrote: »

Templar and Sorcerer have reduced total ultimate. Warden has Major Heroism and DK has resource return on ultimate. NB has faster ultimate gains. Nice variety.

I have a screenshot of getting the Resto Ultimate down to costing 65 on my Sorcerer. That's insane considering it costs ~double that. It doesn't mean that Sorcerer needs a nerf - it's all how you build your character.

but thats via sets and such. a NB doesnt need to focus on it because they already have some kick ass ulti gen AND cheap incaps to boot. built into the default class.

They don't have real shields, they are squishy as a grape. The depend on their high burst to kill anything. Their cloak is their Shield and it only works about 50% of the time if that. For stam, sustain is crap if you want high damage, if you build even a little sustain other than using a drink, your damage goes way down

You want to talk about classes that have it all?

How about warden
Sheild
Heals
Damage

I've seen tanky AF DKs heal from 25% to almost full in a second and then turn around around and kill you

Sorcs have shields and an instant escape with streak. The cost increase does nothing when they can still streak 4-5 times and outrun the fight in 3 seconds. On top of access to the biggest damage aoe ultimate in the game.

Templar
Highest burst heal in the game.
CC and high damage as well
(No templars are not as weak as people claim. Try fighting 2 templars with a group out numbering them by 3 or 4 to one. I have, they are hard to kill).


I've killed all other classes and been killed by all other classes. Seems pretty balanced to me

All the classes are good healers. Everybody uses a restoration staff and orbs are better than shards.

People tend not to make nightblade healers bcz its not pratical. This game is a dps race and Nightblades can do more than 25% dps than other classes.

Seeing how the Summerset PTS cycle went, I have made my peace with Nightblades. I have embraced the fact that ZOS isn't willing to touch unbalanced elements in the game and even adds more of those. I have accepted that at this point it is what it is. I have vowed to try enjoying the rest of ESO's lifespan as best as I may. I have made peace with the game, peace with Nightblades, and especially the ones on the forum. When the itch to write a snarky rebuttal gets strong, I instead think of Artaeum in the sunset and how much greater this game could have been.

Nerf and buff, life and death, and Maintenance Monday - it's all a great river that flows into an ocean the players are only tiny drops in. Bonus points for getting a Pyandonean motif page out of it.

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Nightblades have everything, from amazing spammables both magika and stamina to an execute for also both. Mix that with their insane Ulti generation, best class sustain, their really good low cost ulti and War Machine/Master Architect and you get the most op dps class in the game PvE.

They can dish out damage equal to the other classes at >25% and more damage <25%.

Magblades Also have range and very good self healing.

But I think that just reducing their ulti generation passives and increasing the assassination ulti cost would be a good start to push them in line with the other classes. They made a wrong nerf like increasing the cost of swallow soul which didnt change anything.

If not then give the other classes an execute, spammable, and sustain at least, but the all NB meta now is just so bad for the game's health

Some thoughts to consider and/or knock down:

We're actually seeing higher parses from Mag DKs with Summerset it seems, higher than both stam and mag nightblades. I would bring out some actual math and live parse comparisons to back up DPS disparity claims.

On the subject of parse comparisons, if you're talking about elite guilds/trials environments you need to be comparing raid test parses (i.e. group parses on a robust centurion).

• Solo parses are not reliable in determining actual trials performance, and thus elite guilds will actually rely upon group parse numbers in determining qualifications and roster spots. We should do the same with our balance comparisons if we're discussing how group composition will actually play out.
• A magblade/stamblade might pull a higher solo parse because of how Master Architect/War Machine work, but when you have the nightblade grant that same buff (Major Slayer) to the DPS next to them, that DPS might pull significantly higher numbers than either of their solo parses, while the nightblade's parse may not increase as much in a group setting.
• Also, nightblades can give themselves Minor Berserk, resulting in a higher solo parse, but that advantage is rendered moot in an actual raid setting because the healers will provide it to all dps with Combat Prayer. Again, solo tests are not accurate measurements of DPS output for elite raid qualification and roster placement.

The nightblade might come out on top for highest single-target ranged DPS, but I would be wary of groups that only insist on bringing single-target ranged DPS into a fight. Adds matter, and overlooking a sorc's splash damage is a mistake.

Many fights, like vHRC's the Warrior, vSO's the Serpent, vMoL's Zaj'Hassa, vMoL's twins, vMoL's Rakkhat, vHoF's Assembly General, and vAS's Saint Felms, don't really permit players to get as far away from the boss as you might think. In many fights, a magblade being ranged isn't as much a defensive boon as we might think.

Stamblade and Magblade rotations are the two most difficult rotations to master in the game because they require perfect weaving to maintain effective Relentless/Merciless uptime and procs. You literally cannot miss a single light attack or the entire rotation is thrown off, yet you must weave rapidly enough to achieve enough procs within the 20 seconds allotted so that you can recast focus without losing 8% uptime on minor berserk.

If nightblade healing is not at parity with templar healing in accessibility and effectiveness, then why should templar DPS be at parity with nightblade DPS in accessibility and effectiveness?

If nightblade tanking is not at parity with dragonknight tanking in accessibility and effectiveness, then why should dragonknight DPS be at parity with nightblade DPS in accessibility and effectiveness?


Nightblades do have to admit that other classes are struggling, however, and nighblades MUST INVOLVE THEMSELVES PRODUCTIVELY IN CLASS BALANCE DISCUSSIONS TO HELP OTHERS. Otherwise, blindness to the struggles of others will just put nightblades in the same position sorcs find themselves in now.

I would suggest, as limited, non-exhaustive solutions:

1. Magsorc AoE splash damage needs a tool-tip increase. A flat, non-equivocal increase to cement the magsorc as a valuable contributor of ranged AoE damage.
2. Magplar DPS abilities should perhaps be reworked from channelled/cast time abilities to instant cast abilities to allow for more effective weaving and cancelling between the two. It would be valuable to have a melee AoE contributor, and the magplar is best positioned to fill that role.
3. Move the Minor Fracture/Breach of PoL to the base morph, and grant PoL some other additional effect. More fracture/breach on more adds is a good thing, as is not having to gimp a DPS with sunderflame.
4. Make pets toggles (with uptime until unsummoned/killed) such that they do not require double slotting. This will allow for more varied and powerful rotations for sorcs and wardens, both stamina and magicka.
@ZOS_Wrobel

Facefister wrote: »

PvP is the reason why we can't have nice things. PvP is a mistake, generally in every MMO.

PvP is endgame so not sure what you mean.

I personally think surprise attack and incap are quite overtuned right now from a PVP perspective.

Facefister wrote: »

PvP is the reason why we can't have nice things. PvP is a mistake, generally in every MMO.

Only if the company is too lazy to balance them separately.