It’s time for a definitive assessment - is Stam dead in Summerset?

casparian · May 2018

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Stam is dead. Mag is dead. Health is dead. Crafting is dead. Trials are dead. ERP is dead. Game is dead. Everyone go home.

If you think ERP is dead, just meet me at the Riften tavern tomorrow and I'll show you some lizard honey.

Chilly-McFreeze · May 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Stibbons wrote: »

Stam DK, stam Nightblade and stam Sorc are great in PvP and WvW. Look at the population when you encounter enemies. Mostly magic counterparts on every class are outnumbered.

StamDk is anything but great in open world PvP. Stamsorc is also barely out of bottom tier.

Your analyze is completely wrong lmao. Both sorc and Dk are magicka dominated classes in PvP due to lack of stamina morphs and an overall lack of reason to play them over the other stam toons such as stamblade, stamden.

Stamsorc is very powerful in PvP at the moment. Great in Cyrodiil and absolutely DOMINANT in BGs. Stamsorcs are the most popular class in the matches i play on Xbox NA followed by magplars.

You are right about StamDk. They don't function well as anything other than a tank role in PvP and PvP tank is not fun for me at all.

Might be an PC EU thing than. Stamsorcs here are usually bad players that don't know how to manage resources. But lately dual wield stamsorcs are on the rise and thanks to them I realized stamsorc can be very hard hitting in a duel. But the regular dizzy swing spamming stamsorc is rather average, as I said. They can be easily hard countered by doing what a Dk does(block), or what a nb does(cloak, dodge roll)

As for the stamDK, Tank'n spank builds are just as strong and they even got buffed in a few areas with summerset.
But if you want to wear impen, don't block too much and just play as a brawler (like stamden), then it feels underwhelming on the damage dealing side of things.. especially outside of that ''leap into 10 guys'' moments, the joy of the ''in your face and not going anywhere'' playstyle it used to offer is just not there anymore.

Imagine having near 5k weapon damage and still hitting people like a wet noodle. (except leap. leap is stronk)

Stamsorc is very strong, even on PC/EU. Bleedsorcs are borderline broken, especially in no CP, its all the constant+mildly purge resistant pressure DKs wish they had, with an auto execute imposion and since dodge/medium builds got a decent buff by changing some hard counters, its quite defensible too, that and easier dark deal.

For openworld I'd put it highly too, under the top 3, blades+stamden, but still good and comparable to a magsorc, so around tied 4th place.

And now imagine they‘d nerf bleeds, like it’s often asked for in here. Is the class still 3rd on your list then? I feel like the bleed mechanic is big part of what makes this class appear strong. Live by the bleed, die by the bleed.

Outside of that, everybody just got more mobile and recieves some sort of dark deal mechanic.

IZZEFlameLash · May 2018

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Stam is dead. Mag is dead. Health is dead. Crafting is dead. Trials are dead. ERP is dead. Game is dead. Everyone go home.

ERP is not dead at all. And you do need stamina and vigor to keep it going.

RavenSworn · May 2018

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Stam is dead. Mag is dead. Health is dead. Crafting is dead. Trials are dead. ERP is dead. Game is dead. Everyone go home.

ERP is not dead at all. And you do need stamina and vigor to keep it going.

I'm in Deep Thoughts about that. Are you sure it's not a Mirage?

Aedaryl · May 2018

Why people don't bring NUMBERS ?

That's the only thing that matter, how much dps you can achieve on a regular boss on the all 5 classes with the 2 best mag and stam set-up per class.

Bring your best realistic trial damage number and then start to talk about "deadly' things.

SmellyUnlimited · May 2018

I hadn’t considered the viability of sets like Ravager, that definitely does make things more interesting. I think a few other sets that may get some more play are Dreugh Slayer, Way of Fire, and Berserking Warrior.

mr_wazzabi · May 2018

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

I hadn’t considered the viability of sets like Ravager, that definitely does make things more interesting. I think a few other sets that may get some more play are Dreugh Slayer, Way of Fire, and Berserking Warrior.

Dreugh slayer most likely won't as its magicka equivalent, Rattlecage sees little use despite dropping jewlery in arcane.

I use it with great effect because I'm too cheap to use spell power potions, but I know there are better sets to use, provided potions are used.

Endgame tryhards all use potions.

DoctorESO · May 2018

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

There’s been a lot of conjecture, and it’s time to lay this to rest once and for all this DLC.

What is the state of Stam?

We can't lay it to rest once and for all because ZOS keeps changing everything and making the game so unpredictable. What's dead today is alive tomorrow, and what's alive tomorrow is six feet underground the next day.

Itzmichi · May 2018

Ah, I think stam isn't dead and even if at some point there will be the rise of the Phoenix once again. You can't tell what will happen in a few months or even tomorrow in the game, I like to remind people on the famous "mother sorrow" incident

Tannus15 · May 2018

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

I hadn’t considered the viability of sets like Ravager, that definitely does make things more interesting. I think a few other sets that may get some more play are Dreugh Slayer, Way of Fire, and Berserking Warrior.

Dreugh slayer most likely won't as its magicka equivalent, Rattlecage sees little use despite dropping jewlery in arcane.

I use it with great effect because I'm too cheap to use spell power potions, but I know there are better sets to use, provided potions are used.

Endgame tryhards all use potions.

Most classes have a skill which grants major brutality / sorcery to better effect than losing a 5pc set for it. For example crit/power surge. Cast this every 30 seconds and you get a lot of self heals and you can use a different set for that 5pc bonus.
DKS is even worse because most PVE stam builds are using DW and if you need major brutality you can just use hidden blade as your spammable. Hundings rage is better than DKS in literally every way possible.

Aebaradath · May 2018

No, it's not dead.

ezeepeezee · May 2018

Too many people with no clue commenting on this.

Yes, stam is dead. If stam pulls similar DPS in trials as mag, it's dead. There's no point standing in melee range if you're not pulling higher numbers. End of story.

Bakkagami · May 2018

PvP definitely not, PvE definitely not unless you're min-maxing for endgame leaderboard guilds, maybe, if that's what it takes for your group to min-max I guess. A solid balance situation would be having stam excel at outputting damage if they can stay on the boss but be riskier, while mag has better sustained damage in mobile fights and better survivability through the fact that they can stay at a range. Never really got into try-hard level PvE other than just enjoying the difficulty of the HM dungeons and tougher trials but I'm fairly certain that's how things were before but forums just like this saying 'mag is dead' probably resulted in the situation we have now.

Mazbt · May 2018

It's smart to get both magic and stamina toons ready for end game trials. Or able to respec if need be. Just focusing on one and only one type is gonna make you upset half the year.

Lord_Ninka · May 2018

Part of the reason, I think, is simply that mages are more popular, so people get more inspiration for mages, and therefore it takes more effort to become good at stamina. I also get the feeling that there's a slight intolerance towards stamina characters among raid leaders, again probably because mages are more popular in the first place and that makes it easier for most people to think up strategies that involve mages only.

That said, I do think there might be a little magicka/stamina imbalance for trials especially, just not as great as you make it out to be, OP.

Also, where do you get the loss of 360 wpn dmg "across the board" from? Do you mean to say all stamina characters used Warrior mundus stone before Summerset and will now be actually forced to change to lover? Why? I haven't noticed anything in the patch notes that told me that.

Baz · May 2018

Lord_Ninka wrote: »

Part of the reason, I think, is simply that mages are more popular, so people get more inspiration for mages, and therefore it takes more effort to become good at stamina. I also get the feeling that there's a slight intolerance towards stamina characters among raid leaders, again probably because mages are more popular in the first place and that makes it easier for most people to think up strategies that involve mages only.

That said, I do think there might be a little magicka/stamina imbalance for trials especially, just not as great as you make it out to be, OP.

Also, where do you get the loss of 360 wpn dmg "across the board" from? Do you mean to say all stamina characters used Warrior mundus stone before Summerset and will now be actually forced to change to lover? Why? I haven't noticed anything in the patch notes that told me that.

You didn't see the change on NMG (2580) & Sunderflame (3440) ? Stam lost 6k pen, which is not achievable with CPs & sharpened is crap.

SmellyUnlimited · May 2018

Baz wrote: »

Lord_Ninka wrote: »

Part of the reason, I think, is simply that mages are more popular, so people get more inspiration for mages, and therefore it takes more effort to become good at stamina. I also get the feeling that there's a slight intolerance towards stamina characters among raid leaders, again probably because mages are more popular in the first place and that makes it easier for most people to think up strategies that involve mages only.

That said, I do think there might be a little magicka/stamina imbalance for trials especially, just not as great as you make it out to be, OP.

Also, where do you get the loss of 360 wpn dmg "across the board" from? Do you mean to say all stamina characters used Warrior mundus stone before Summerset and will now be actually forced to change to lover? Why? I haven't noticed anything in the patch notes that told me that.

You didn't see the change on NMG (2580) & Sunderflame (3440) ? Stam lost 6k pen, which is not achievable with CPs & sharpened is crap.

^^This. And unless it was PvP and you were running The Serpent, picking anything other than Warrior was a DPS loss. If stam at least had a change to Medium for penetration like Light Armor, they could still be viable. Changing sets is one thing, but not adding any increased functionality to off-set the loss is a purposeful money grabbing maneuver. The choice has been made that players playing stamina classes are no longer ‘allowed’ to participate in a game they’ve spent countless hours on. The very fact that @ZOS employees aren’t responding at all to something that a large portion of the community is justifiably upset over is fairly sufficient proof that this was a conscious plan. It’s despicable.

Advancing Yokeda and Relequen? Tried it first hand on Stamblade, All magicks dps still HIGHLY outperform comparable stamina classes now. The fact that staves are 2 handed, can run a monster set, has further led to a large delta in the performance of stamina classes vs comparable Magicka.

Does this not bother anyone? I can say, without a doubt, having now tested it it’s laughably one-sided. Magicka melee NB’s/MagDK’s will rightfully take the stamina melee spots in trials. There is no need for stam anymore.

For you players that have and play stamina toons routinely, what are you planning to do? Race change and switch to Magicka?, stop competitive end-game content? Somehow just move forward, but knowing your team is leaving damage at the door by you being there?