Stamina DPS Summerset Patch

Itzmichi · May 2018

Tempestwrath wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

So the changes they did for magicka needed to happen, however I understand what the OP is saying. Magicka simply has superior survivability because of their OP damage shields. Because of this whenever magicka can pull similar numbers as Stam (even 5k less), stamina becomes dead in competitive trials. In order to have Stam present in competitive trials they absolutely need to have superior DPS in order to justify their existence. Currently the DPS distribution in trials is 4 Stam, and 4 magicka. Next update it'll be all magicka for anything competitive.

Ofc I assume You did all the trials on PTS for supporting that conclusion ? Or it is just your random theory without any baseground ?

Even nonwithstanding the balance changes, the mechanics of the new Trial overwhelmingly favor magicka-based DPS; kind of like Asylum but taken to its extreme.

The balance changes are just the icing on the cake. Stamina has no place as endgame Summerset DPS.

I wouldn't go that far, but with summerset staminas will have to work twice as hard as before to be viable in a raid group, with the missing penetration due to the changes of the 2 most important sets everything is now standing kinda upside down.

Hopefully they'll address some of the problems with the next patch and rethinking some of the current changes.

@juhani.hakalaeb17_ESO I don't kragh being viable anytime soon. You selfsustained the test?

Supernatural · May 2018

Well, as far as Sunder and Night Mother's are concerned, they could at least bring one of the two back to their original state. Sunder is literally 100% useless now that it applies minor fracture and breach, you get that by simply having a stamplar in your group running Power of the Light, but Night Mother's Gaze is gonna be a great option (probably best in slot), for solo play. So I guess revert the change to Sunder and leave NMG as it is?

Colecovision · May 2018

Supernatural wrote: »

Well, as far as Sunder and Night Mother's are concerned, they could at least bring one of the two back to their original state. Sunder is literally 100% useless now that it applies minor fracture and breach, you get that by simply having a stamplar in your group running Power of the Light, but Night Mother's Gaze is gonna be a great option (probably best in slot), for solo play. So I guess revert the change to Sunder and leave NMG as it is?

I think sunder is a dark elf solo set now. It would also help a 4 man group with 2 stam dps and no templar. So it's useless to trials, but not deleted from the game. If they change one back, I hope it's night mothers.

xAk_MoRRoWiNdx · May 2018

Wow, ZoS making Stam work harder/nerfing us.

Hilarious and Original...

Supernatural · May 2018

Colecovision wrote: »

Supernatural wrote: »

Well, as far as Sunder and Night Mother's are concerned, they could at least bring one of the two back to their original state. Sunder is literally 100% useless now that it applies minor fracture and breach, you get that by simply having a stamplar in your group running Power of the Light, but Night Mother's Gaze is gonna be a great option (probably best in slot), for solo play. So I guess revert the change to Sunder and leave NMG as it is?

I think sunder is a dark elf solo set now. It would also help a 4 man group with 2 stam dps and no templar. So it's useless to trials, but not deleted from the game. If they change one back, I hope it's night mothers.

I do not think it is not gonna be of any help in 4 man content at all. It would be more beneficial for stam dds to run TFS and then another dps set.

TheRealSniker · May 2018

Even if magicka does comparable damage to stamina then there is no reason to pick stamina over magicka anywhere.
Since Magicka is so much easier to play, survive on and utilize in trials.

In my Opinion the Stamina/Magicka balance is just fine and makes the game so much more fun and diverse although some classes need adjustments to sustain like Sorcerers and Templars.
Although Stamina does so much more Damage people still like to take 2-4 magicka characters for the utility tools and ranged capabilities. If we look at vAS then thats a Magicka only Trial aswell!
Trials in pre morrowind were 8/8 Magicka characters and people who tried playing stamina were laughed at...
I just dont want it to happen again but if these changes hit live then everybody will run magblades and magDKs, rip stamina.

ezeepeezee · May 2018

Colecovision wrote: »

Supernatural wrote: »

Well, as far as Sunder and Night Mother's are concerned, they could at least bring one of the two back to their original state. Sunder is literally 100% useless now that it applies minor fracture and breach, you get that by simply having a stamplar in your group running Power of the Light, but Night Mother's Gaze is gonna be a great option (probably best in slot), for solo play. So I guess revert the change to Sunder and leave NMG as it is?

I think sunder is a dark elf solo set now. It would also help a 4 man group with 2 stam dps and no templar. So it's useless to trials, but not deleted from the game. If they change one back, I hope it's night mothers.

There's no point in 1 out of 2 dps running a support set for the other dps. 4 man content is already laughably easy anyway, I don't see why anyone would bother (and I doubt that even right now anybody does).

If any stam still gets invited to trials I'd have to think it would be stamblades with sunder and TFS, considering WM serves to buff the (now non-existent) melee players.

Tbh I'm pretty salty, I only play stamina, I have all 5 classes in stam setups right now. Might be time for me to take a break until they get it together again.

joaaocaampos · May 2018

RaStan1999 wrote: »

It's a shame that Stamina gets nerfed so hard.
They said that this patch is about to balance magicka to stamina. They did in some way, because Psjiic Order Imbue Weapon works great, and it's loved to see that magicka's can now run 2 sets + monster set. However, Stamina's got nerfed really.
Psjiic Order now gives Magicka above all these things also Minor Force on ranged, 'Channel Acceleration'. This makes Magicka's great, but no buffs for Stamina so far.

To be honest, Psjiic Order Abilities adds nothing to stamina chars in Trial setup.
The only great abilty in trial setup is going to be Crushing Weapon, however, it's not useable by most classes.
Stam-classes who heavy attack often (Sorc!!, Templar, DK, -idk about Warden-) can't use Crushing Weapon because it only gives extra damage to the next LIGHT Attack. DK has to many DoTs to keep up, so on their bar there really isn't space for a spammable. Templars will stay with their jabs, because the class passives of aedric spear provides more (crit) damage while slotted, and when you use a aedric spear ability, your Burning Light passive has a chance to proc. This all is worth more than Crushing Weapon. Sorc simpely has a to big sustain issue we're you can't afford a spammable like Crushing Weapon in your rotation. Warden also heavy attacks to sustain everything, making it not worth to slot a spammable on your bar that you can't even use most of the time.

With the balance changes to Light/ Heavy attacks, so that Light attacks are more focused on damage and Heavy attacks more focused on sustain, it makes stamina DPS even more worse, especially the ones who heavy attack a lot (Sorc!!!).
Summerset almost forces every class to light attack instead of heavy attack, however with some classes you just can't do that really. With all these points, I want to discuss stamsorc really quick. Bound Armaments now increases your LIGHT attack damage by 11%, not HEAVY attack damage anymore. If you are playing with a viable trial-setup build, then you notice that you only LIGHT attack on your backbar (bowbar). On your frontbar, you will weave Heavy Attacks to sustain everything, making the new changes to Bound Armaments very bad (and almost useless)...

If you count everything in, then you'll notice that Magicka classes wil get buffed big time because of the Psjiic Order skill line, and also because of the changes related in these patch notes. Stamina's will get nerfed mainly compared to Magicka, becasue almost all of them can't use Psjiic Order Skills, and on top of that, the unique bonus from NMG and Sunderflame has been removed, making is instantly not trial ready anymore.

ZoS please, to balance Stamina up compared to Magicka in trial environment, you have got to bring back NMG and Sunderflame to increase Stamina damage in trials so they can compete with Magicka DD's. Not only that, but also please check out the BiS rotation for each class. Make a choose on stamsorc for example, (1) Increase their sustain so they will be able to LIGHT attack on their frontbar and so they can use Crushing Weapon to increase DPS, or (2) change Bound Armaments back to the Heavy Attack bonusses, instead of Light Attack bonusses. And then also give Heavy Attacks more damage instead of nerfing the damage into a sustain tool.

I hope I didn't wrote this for nothing, and that you will take a look at Stamina classes to balance them fairly to Magicka classes, also because they always stand on melee range and therefore they take more risc to die then Magicka DD's.
I hope to keep on using NMG and Sunderflame instead of deconstruct it when Summerset launches.

Kind Regards,

Stan.

Are you even doing Hardcore Trial? Stamina is VERY superior to Magicka. But very much! After Summerset, maybe Magicka compares to Stamina. Or Stamina may still be superior. More tests are needed.

Are you crazy?

Nevasca · May 2018

joaaocaampos wrote: »

RaStan1999 wrote: »

It's a shame that Stamina gets nerfed so hard.
They said that this patch is about to balance magicka to stamina. They did in some way, because Psjiic Order Imbue Weapon works great, and it's loved to see that magicka's can now run 2 sets + monster set. However, Stamina's got nerfed really.
Psjiic Order now gives Magicka above all these things also Minor Force on ranged, 'Channel Acceleration'. This makes Magicka's great, but no buffs for Stamina so far.

To be honest, Psjiic Order Abilities adds nothing to stamina chars in Trial setup.
The only great abilty in trial setup is going to be Crushing Weapon, however, it's not useable by most classes.
Stam-classes who heavy attack often (Sorc!!, Templar, DK, -idk about Warden-) can't use Crushing Weapon because it only gives extra damage to the next LIGHT Attack. DK has to many DoTs to keep up, so on their bar there really isn't space for a spammable. Templars will stay with their jabs, because the class passives of aedric spear provides more (crit) damage while slotted, and when you use a aedric spear ability, your Burning Light passive has a chance to proc. This all is worth more than Crushing Weapon. Sorc simpely has a to big sustain issue we're you can't afford a spammable like Crushing Weapon in your rotation. Warden also heavy attacks to sustain everything, making it not worth to slot a spammable on your bar that you can't even use most of the time.

With the balance changes to Light/ Heavy attacks, so that Light attacks are more focused on damage and Heavy attacks more focused on sustain, it makes stamina DPS even more worse, especially the ones who heavy attack a lot (Sorc!!!).
Summerset almost forces every class to light attack instead of heavy attack, however with some classes you just can't do that really. With all these points, I want to discuss stamsorc really quick. Bound Armaments now increases your LIGHT attack damage by 11%, not HEAVY attack damage anymore. If you are playing with a viable trial-setup build, then you notice that you only LIGHT attack on your backbar (bowbar). On your frontbar, you will weave Heavy Attacks to sustain everything, making the new changes to Bound Armaments very bad (and almost useless)...

If you count everything in, then you'll notice that Magicka classes wil get buffed big time because of the Psjiic Order skill line, and also because of the changes related in these patch notes. Stamina's will get nerfed mainly compared to Magicka, becasue almost all of them can't use Psjiic Order Skills, and on top of that, the unique bonus from NMG and Sunderflame has been removed, making is instantly not trial ready anymore.

ZoS please, to balance Stamina up compared to Magicka in trial environment, you have got to bring back NMG and Sunderflame to increase Stamina damage in trials so they can compete with Magicka DD's. Not only that, but also please check out the BiS rotation for each class. Make a choose on stamsorc for example, (1) Increase their sustain so they will be able to LIGHT attack on their frontbar and so they can use Crushing Weapon to increase DPS, or (2) change Bound Armaments back to the Heavy Attack bonusses, instead of Light Attack bonusses. And then also give Heavy Attacks more damage instead of nerfing the damage into a sustain tool.

I hope I didn't wrote this for nothing, and that you will take a look at Stamina classes to balance them fairly to Magicka classes, also because they always stand on melee range and therefore they take more risc to die then Magicka DD's.
I hope to keep on using NMG and Sunderflame instead of deconstruct it when Summerset launches.

Kind Regards,

Stan.

Are you even doing Hardcore Trial? Stamina is VERY superior to Magicka. But very much! After Summerset, maybe Magicka compares to Stamina. Or Stamina may still be superior. More tests are needed.

Are you crazy?

Magicka doing the same damage as Stamina while having Harness Magicka, being able to play at ranged and not using their resource of damage to roll dodge or block some mechanics that require you to.

Seems Balanced.

Though I'd that's a Stamina problem and not a Magicka problem per se, but Stamina should be high risk/high reward, while magicka being low risk/low reward imo. Now Magicka has the same reward for lower risk, meaning Stamina will be less desirable.

Aedaryl · May 2018

Where you crybabies take your number ?

You are all saying the DPS of mag is better or equal to the stam one.

Where is your number ?

There is a 58k stamina self buffed DPS screen, where is the 58-60k magicka one ?

Baz · May 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

Where you crybabies take your number ?

You are all saying the DPS of mag is better or equal to the stam one.

Where is your number ?

There is a 58k stamina self buffed DPS screen, where is the 58-60k magicka one ?

Selfbuffed mean NOTHING in a trial environment.

Aedaryl · May 2018

Baz wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Where you crybabies take your number ?

You are all saying the DPS of mag is better or equal to the stam one.

Where is your number ?

There is a 58k stamina self buffed DPS screen, where is the 58-60k magicka one ?

Selfbuffed mean NOTHING in a trial environment.

Show me trial number then, but don't speak without number, that's useless when the topic is DPS.

Juhasow · May 2018

Baz wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Where you crybabies take your number ?

You are all saying the DPS of mag is better or equal to the stam one.

Where is your number ?

There is a 58k stamina self buffed DPS screen, where is the 58-60k magicka one ?

Selfbuffed mean NOTHING in a trial environment.

On 6M or 25M dummies it's still kinda relevant though.