I hate the outfit system. I don’t want to, but I just do.

davey1107 · April 2018

I should love the outfit system. As a motif collector, I’ve put a lot of work and gold into knowing every single motif. Having access to all of those on a regular basis should be exciting. I’d only fiddled with it from time to time since it rolled, but tonight I decided to go ahead and create an outfit on my main...and I just really hate this system.

- The UI might be the worst designed interface in any MMORPG I’ve ever used. It’s a painful, slow, annoying process. The learning curve is horrible...and I sometimes work on video games. I’ve designed menu systems and UIs for games, websites and apps. So if I’m confused and annoyed by the UI, I can’t imagine that it’s very friendly for players who aren’t as experienced in that stuff. It was such a chore to build one outfit that I never want to see another station. I might burn all of the ones in my houses, lol.

- I cannot believe how expensive they made it. It’s just...I don’t have words for some of the inept decisions this team makes. It cost me $20k gold for my look, then $3k to dye. I don’t care about the expense...I have tens of millions stashed away. But ESO is always trying to bring new players into the game. If a newer player goes out and farms the motifs and has a look they’re building, they should be able to play around with the outfit system and change their look and / or dye frequently. That’s really hard to do at these prices.

What I think is a particularly large misstep on this is that consumer psychology is such that a player won’t entirely distinguish between real world money they’re paying for the game and in-game fake money they’re paying for features. That is...if you make players upset because you’re overcharging them in-game gold, this will work to establish a negative opinion that has an effect when you ask them to buy real world goods. “Why would I buy this crown store item...you’ve ripped me off in the past.” Outfits could have been a way to make players really happy by giving them versatility and making it really, really accessible. But instead of using the system as a way to generate goodwill, Zos has made outfits an expensive, bureaucratic mess.

This is why game developers shouldn’t really be in charge of decisions at game development companies. This is the sort of business blunder that a company like Apple wouldn’t make. That is because if Apple rolled a software feature that was akin to the outfit system, they’d have someone on staff with a masters in marketing and a PhD in psychology who would help guide them to better business practices. (They really do...the height of the iPads on display in the stores have been set based on hard data and science, including psychological profiles of potential customers).

Leandor · April 2018

davey1107 wrote: »

...This is the sort of business blunder that a company like Apple wouldn’t make...

Mate, I absolutely agree with what you have written. But this sentence made me laugh out loud. Apple is the company who established the sub-par, feature reduced 1000$ phone... They are the poster child of convincing customers to pay more than the product is worth.

HappyLittleTree · April 2018

I don't agree it isn't expensive...90% of the outfits are affordable and even as a new player you earn enough in 1h of playing to change your outfit several times.

Yeah some outfits are 6k plus per piece but these are motifs which generally drop in hard content which you access later so u probably have the gold to afford the outfit system.

Violynne · April 2018

I'll have to disagree the outfit station is "expensive". This is clearly a gold sink, and the idea is the rarer the motif, the more it costs to apply it. It's reasonable. As you said, many people have stashes of gold coin the cost is irrelevant.

One of the greatest options of the Outfit station is it lets you preview styles you do not own, allowing players to focus on motifs they really want, rather than grinding and hoping for the best. This is how I acquired the Hollowjack Daggers, which look exceptionally sharp on my character.

I literally spent hours going from trader to trader looking for the best price, and walked away with the motif for 5k gold.

I definitely agree with your assessment on the UI. It is horrible. I always keep forgetting I have to "select" the item I want to "change" to get into the preview screen, which irks me because I feel this is the same as applying the motif/dye directly. Alas, I don't expect it to change anytime soon. Even with the changes they made to the base dye station, the UI is still broken and confusing.

That is because if Apple rolled a software feature that was akin to the outfit system, they’d have someone on staff with a masters in marketing and a PhD in psychology who would help guide them to better business practices.

I couldn't help but laugh at this.

People clearly have forgotten Apple's history.

ZarkingFrued · April 2018

Really? These are some serious First World problems. It's amazing how when you give someone something they've been asking for they just complain about how it was delivered. I'm pretty sure your "game design" background is not going to make you more adept than others at this extremely simple interface for designing a piece by piece outfit for a friggin ESO character either lmfao. Honestly? It's stupid simple to use, fairly user friendly, allows you to dye individual item slots or entire outfit slots, categorizes light, heavy, medium, and all the styles are in a predictable order as well as grouped with styles from the same motif. And maybe as a newbie you shouldn't have access to this stuff instantly? Games always get boring if there's nothing to look forward to, like having the gold to style your character. We have been asking for this to come out since launch, yet it still doesn't surprise me that you are the second person I've heard complain about it even though it is entirely optional to use. Simple solution, dont use the literally free (no cash required) outfit system, stop trying to find things to complain about, and go take a walk while you think of all the POSITIVE things you have in life.

ZarkingFrued · April 2018

Violynne wrote: »

I literally spent hours going from trader to trader looking for the best price, and walked away with the motif for 5k

That's to high for hollow to start with, but in "hours", specifically about 2, I can make over 50k. You coulda just made some gold and bought it for whatever it was going for, 10k max when the event just dropped, usually 2k, and had gold leftover

davey1107 · April 2018

Really? These are some serious First World problems

If we limited these forums to pertinent world issues, they’d be blank, lol. And my post got you involved, writing insults and a poop attitude response, so how insignificant can the issue be? Lol.

My game design experience doesn’t make my opinion more important, but it might offer some insight on where the system falls short. In my opinion it was done on the cheap, be a dev team that isn’t so great at UI.

ZarkingFrued · April 2018

Lol touche, but still, I'm just happy they hooked us up with the ability to do this. I'm sure modifications of the system are to come, but for now, at least it covers everything

If I was to complain, it would be about how long it took to even get this system.

Saccarius · April 2018

I agree that it's way too expensive. I've only just started to make enough money to justify spending the thousands it costs to save a new outfit. When I first started playing, I never had more 10k in my bank for like a month. It might be easy for YOU to make millions a week but some of us are still finding our feet.

As for the system in general, I feel it's way too limited as it stands now. The most important change I'd like to see is the option to hide any piece; but specifically shoulders, hands and belts in that order. There are dozens of costumes that don't have one or any of these pieces so there is no reason we should have to look fully armoured (as if cloth = armour anyway) and every single shoulder piece is visually offensive to me. Every. Single. One.

Second we should be able to use clothing found in the world. If I want to fight monsters in the slave pants I started the game wearing then I should be able to.

Third we should be able to preview a motif with dye applied to see if it's worth going out to farm/save up money for the motif chapter. The reason this is essential is that some pieces just will not accept colour unless it's especially vibrant and every dye that I have unlocked comes out looking grey or brown no matter the colour. This would also let us know if we should spend time achievement hunting for a particular dye or not.

Fourth, the system broke the option to hide your helmet when wearing disguises. I used to enjoy wearing disguises for quests but now I can't wait to take the damn thing off.

All that said I do appreciate that the system was introduced because I finally made an outfit I like for one of my characters yesterday. It was crazy expensive but it turned out pretty great. Everyone else is still in costumes though until the system evolves a bit more.

kylewwefan · April 2018

I agree. It’s too pricey. I got 10 toons to outfit. So far I’ve done 2 and it cost me 35k each. I don’t have half a mil gold lying around for outfits. I just spent 2 mil acquiring a bunch of motifs and now I’m broke as I’ve ever been. Feels bad.

On the plus side, I’ve got plenty of costumes.

Pixyn · April 2018

I just started tinkering with this system and do not have experience with other game interfaces, so I have nothing to compare it to. My initial thoughts are:

1) I completely agree about the shoulder pieces. It would be great to hide these, or any other pieces.
2) It would be nice to have non armor outfits, just everyday clothes. Pants and shirts for the men, dresses and skirts for the women.
3) Nothing I put together even comes close to the beauty of the outfits found in the Crown Store.

zaria · April 2018

Its nice for previewing styles from motifs you do not own, also for preview before crafting.

Adernath · April 2018

I disagree in almost everything the OP says.

The UI is very simple to understand and I can create my outfits within a couple of minutes.

Besides, if you create an entire new look it costs you much more than just changing a dye or a particular piece. So if you create a new look the first time it is a little more expensive than later. You just have to think twice what you want and don't change everything all the time like you would have no concept of your characters look. In this case it can get more expensive.

f047ys3v3n · April 2018

I agree OP.

I thought I would like the outfits. I have basically all the motifs and I have wanted to die my weapons and transmog my stuff for a while. It just hasn't worked out that way though.

First, I can't just die a weapon or transmog a peice, I have to create a whole outfit. I don't want to create a whole outfit. I just want to make this stupid set of epaulets different. Why does this have to be a whole thing?

Second, I really shouldn't care about the cost. I have 17M. But, I do care about the cost. Where is the slot for the money? Who lives in my outfit station that I am paying. I don't get it. I both feel nickle and dimed and like my immersion is broken.

I'm sorry. I really thought that when this all went live I would like it and use like I do and did with the dye system but I don't. In fact, I dislike it enough that I did not enter the outfit photo contest that I was otherwise interested in entering. I just had too much of an aversion to using the outfit system.

The outfit system kinda sucks, sorry.

Tarukmockto · April 2018

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

First, I can't just die a weapon or transmog a peice, I have to create a whole outfit. I don't want to create a whole outfit. I just want to make this stupid set of epaulets different. Why does this have to be a whole thing?

Actually you can just do a single piece or less than all in an outfit. Any item that doesn't have something in the outfit will allow the underlying base armor to show. I have dyed most of my weapons only as outfits, with no actual changes to any of my base armor.

I don't totally disagree with you on the cost, but don't really see it as a deal breaker. I might if I was one to have lots of custom outfits for every occasion, but that's not me. I just wanted to change the colors on my weapons.

Jayne_Doe · May 2018

The problem for me with the outfit system is the cost to both create the outfit and then dye it. But that's really only because I already have a huge gold sink - housing. I've made millions of gold that's been spent on MW furniture (when MW plans were nearly impossible to get) and then on plans when the MW furnishing documents dropped (as well as Master Writs to get more vouchers to buy some of the plans that way). I've spent millions of gold before that on regular furnishing plans, furnishings (both from other players and from the luxury vendor), and houses.

I don't need another gold sink! But, for those not into housing and who have all their bag/bank upgrades and horse training done, I can see where another gold sink might be needed. And, the outfit gold sink is peanuts compared to the housing one.

Thus, I don't think the cost is prohibitively expensive - it's just too expensive for me right now, as I have other things I want to spend my gold on. Plus, I only recently completed another HUGE gold sink - obtaining every freaking motif in the game. When SS drops, there'll be more motifs to earn/buy.

Also, let's not forget that new players have other gold sinks, and until those are completed (bag/bank upgrades, horse training), they won't be able to spend much gold on the outfit system initially. But, the motifs that are easy to get don't cost that much, and they won't have the more expensive motifs yet, so they can create a nice starter outfit for little cost.

I also agree that the interface is clunky. I believe the OP is on PS4. I'm on XB, and the console interface is not nearly as good as the PC one. I've tinkered around on both.

Edited for clarity/grammar.

MRusso89 · May 2018

It is definitely way too expensive. It should only cost you gold to use a style or dye that you don't currently have unlocked. I have almost every motif and dye, but only 400k in gold to my name. Dropping 26k on a nice outfit is absolutely insane.

LadyDestiny · May 2018

davey1107 wrote: »

I should love the outfit system. As a motif collector, I’ve put a lot of work and gold into knowing every single motif. Having access to all of those on a regular basis should be exciting. I’d only fiddled with it from time to time since it rolled, but tonight I decided to go ahead and create an outfit on my main...and I just really hate this system.

- The UI might be the worst designed interface in any MMORPG I’ve ever used. It’s a painful, slow, annoying process. The learning curve is horrible...and I sometimes work on video games. I’ve designed menu systems and UIs for games, websites and apps. So if I’m confused and annoyed by the UI, I can’t imagine that it’s very friendly for players who aren’t as experienced in that stuff. It was such a chore to build one outfit that I never want to see another station. I might burn all of the ones in my houses, lol.

- I cannot believe how expensive they made it. It’s just...I don’t have words for some of the inept decisions this team makes. It cost me $20k gold for my look, then $3k to dye. I don’t care about the expense...I have tens of millions stashed away. But ESO is always trying to bring new players into the game. If a newer player goes out and farms the motifs and has a look they’re building, they should be able to play around with the outfit system and change their look and / or dye frequently. That’s really hard to do at these prices.

What I think is a particularly large misstep on this is that consumer psychology is such that a player won’t entirely distinguish between real world money they’re paying for the game and in-game fake money they’re paying for features. That is...if you make players upset because you’re overcharging them in-game gold, this will work to establish a negative opinion that has an effect when you ask them to buy real world goods. “Why would I buy this crown store item...you’ve ripped me off in the past.” Outfits could have been a way to make players really happy by giving them versatility and making it really, really accessible. But instead of using the system as a way to generate goodwill, Zos has made outfits an expensive, bureaucratic mess.

This is why game developers shouldn’t really be in charge of decisions at game development companies. This is the sort of business blunder that a company like Apple wouldn’t make. That is because if Apple rolled a software feature that was akin to the outfit system, they’d have someone on staff with a masters in marketing and a PhD in psychology who would help guide them to better business practices. (They really do...the height of the iPads on display in the stores have been set based on hard data and science, including psychological profiles of potential customers).

I can see Zos reason for charging crowns for extra appearance slots because thats Zos. Making us pay gold to change and color our outfits on motifs we have earned and know is just stupid......I just keep using my crafted gear sets or costumes. It would cost a small fortune to try and change all my characters gear appearance that nobody really notices.