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Ancient Knowledge
-
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The passive is fine as it is.
Also @NyassaV is very incorrect that it is the only weapon skill line in the game that requires a skill to be slotted in order to get the passive.
DW Slaughter - only affects DW skills. Not only requires a DW skill but only benefits those skills.
Bow Hawk Eye - Only affects bow skills. Same ^^^^
The destro passive merely requires a skill be slotted which is a much sweeter design. it is much nicer having this passive affect class skills and others by merely having a weapon skill slotted.
There is a difference, however, between weapon passives that only affect those weapons skills - and weapon passives that affect all skills.. eg .
Twin blade and blunt with swords doesn't limit its bonus to only DW abilities..
Heavy Weapons with sword doesn't limit it's bonus to only 2-handed abilities.
Ancient Knowledge doesn't limit its bonus to staff abilities.
Yet one of those needs a skill equipped from that line, the other's don't.
The point is - where you want to use that generic buff to non-weapon abilities (like DW sorcs and NB's have done for years with twin blade and blunt) - you need to waste a slot to do with staff.
Doesn't seem unreasonable now to ask for it to work in a similar way to heavy weapons and twin blade and blunt - especially since DW for mag builds is now no longer a competitive(with staff) build choice. I mean, Zos have been trying to force all mag builds to go destro for damage for a lot of patches now. They may as well finish the job.
My comment is still very much correct in that the OP stated false information. You have merely worked at spitting hairs which has no bearing on the premise of my statement.
It really does seem few have an issue with this passive considering the very light traffic this thread has seen with few here supporting OP to begin with.
... lol... No
There is a difference in what certain things effect vs needing something slotted to gain the passive. For instance: The Slaughter passive applies to light attacks therefore you don't need a skill slotted. Hawkeye also affects light attacks
Ancient Knowledge is comparable to "Twin Blade and Blunt" which also does not require a DW skill to be slotted to gain the effect
Not really. The passive is very different with each staff compared to each DW weapon type.
It is only with one dstaff type does the passive seem similar.
So lol, you just destroyed your own argument since the passives are unique and considering others have pointed out this passive's requirements are in line with how some class passives are that demonstrates there is nothing irregular with it's design.
Again, seems that there is extremely light interest from those that do not like the passives to begin with.
No... You are beginning to not make a lot of sense now
lets say axes are like fire staves since bleeds give more single target damage.
And we can say daggers and swords are like a lightning stave because they passively increase the damage of your AoE effects and in some cases single target abilities that have an AoE function (like jabs)
I know someone who has 1 sword and 1 axe from BSW and he procs the axe bleed on people (he is a mDK) without having ANY ability for DW slotted.Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@idk
Care to elaborate?
DW recieves 5% bonus to all damage, 2-hander receives 5%~ or so to all damage (for greatsword), bow recieves weapon crit for equipping. We'll ignore s&b even though it relates to the consistency of weapon skill lines giving bonuses without requiring ability slots.
Destruction staff does not recieve bonus damage/stats without an ability slotted.
If I'm wrong feel free to explain why, but I've looked into this extensively and believe my recollection is correct.
LOL, Ok, true about the bow. Forgot the completely chanced the passive they restricted to only bow skills. That became hawk eye I believe.
Still. the rest of my argument here holds. OP, and it seems only 2 other players, are merely splitting hairs a different way.
And as I pointed out, OP just destroyed his argument.
0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@idk
Care to elaborate?
DW recieves 5% bonus to all damage, 2-hander receives 5%~ or so to all damage (for greatsword), bow recieves weapon crit for equipping. We'll ignore s&b even though it relates to the consistency of weapon skill lines giving bonuses without requiring ability slots.
Destruction staff does not recieve bonus damage/stats without an ability slotted.
If I'm wrong feel free to explain why, but I've looked into this extensively and believe my recollection is correct.
LOL, Ok, true about the bow. Forgot the completely chanced the passive they restricted to only bow skills. That became hawk eye I believe.
Still. the rest of my argument here holds. OP, and it seems only 2 other players, are merely splitting hairs a different way.
And as I pointed out, OP just destroyed his argument.
Her... And no I didn't? You just stated that without making much sense of the matter. That doesn't make it soFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The passive is fine as it is.
Also @NyassaV is very incorrect that it is the only weapon skill line in the game that requires a skill to be slotted in order to get the passive.
DW Slaughter - only affects DW skills. Not only requires a DW skill but only benefits those skills.
Bow Hawk Eye - Only affects bow skills. Same ^^^^
The destro passive merely requires a skill be slotted which is a much sweeter design. it is much nicer having this passive affect class skills and others by merely having a weapon skill slotted.
There is a difference, however, between weapon passives that only affect those weapons skills - and weapon passives that affect all skills.. eg .
Twin blade and blunt with swords doesn't limit its bonus to only DW abilities..
Heavy Weapons with sword doesn't limit it's bonus to only 2-handed abilities.
Ancient Knowledge doesn't limit its bonus to staff abilities.
Yet one of those needs a skill equipped from that line, the other's don't.
The point is - where you want to use that generic buff to non-weapon abilities (like DW sorcs and NB's have done for years with twin blade and blunt) - you need to waste a slot to do with staff.
Doesn't seem unreasonable now to ask for it to work in a similar way to heavy weapons and twin blade and blunt - especially since DW for mag builds is now no longer a competitive(with staff) build choice. I mean, Zos have been trying to force all mag builds to go destro for damage for a lot of patches now. They may as well finish the job.
My comment is still very much correct in that the OP stated false information. You have merely worked at spitting hairs which has no bearing on the premise of my statement.
It really does seem few have an issue with this passive considering the very light traffic this thread has seen with few here supporting OP to begin with.
... lol... No
There is a difference in what certain things effect vs needing something slotted to gain the passive. For instance: The Slaughter passive applies to light attacks therefore you don't need a skill slotted. Hawkeye also affects light attacks
Ancient Knowledge is comparable to "Twin Blade and Blunt" which also does not require a DW skill to be slotted to gain the effect
Not really. The passive is very different with each staff compared to each DW weapon type.
It is only with one dstaff type does the passive seem similar.
So lol, you just destroyed your own argument since the passives are unique and considering others have pointed out this passive's requirements are in line with how some class passives are that demonstrates there is nothing irregular with it's design.
Again, seems that there is extremely light interest from those that do not like the passives to begin with.
No... You are beginning to not make a lot of sense now
lets say axes are like fire staves since bleeds give more single target damage.
And we can say daggers and swords are like a lightning stave because they passively increase the damage of your AoE effects and in some cases single target abilities that have an AoE function (like jabs)
I know someone who has 1 sword and 1 axe from BSW and he procs the axe bleed on people (he is a mDK) without having ANY ability for DW slotted.
Read again. You merely demonstrated how different the passives are not making them comparable to each other eliminating your basis for suggesting change. Think about it for a bit.
I will also point out that Rstaff used to have a passive that increased all damage by X% but that was removed in the first year. After that players adjusted with going to other weapons which brought about further changes to restrict the benefit of passive from bow and DW TBB so they did not affect class skills in one case and magicka skills in another.Edited by idk on May 22, 2018 5:24PM0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The passive is fine as it is.
Also @NyassaV is very incorrect that it is the only weapon skill line in the game that requires a skill to be slotted in order to get the passive.
DW Slaughter - only affects DW skills. Not only requires a DW skill but only benefits those skills.
Bow Hawk Eye - Only affects bow skills. Same ^^^^
The destro passive merely requires a skill be slotted which is a much sweeter design. it is much nicer having this passive affect class skills and others by merely having a weapon skill slotted.
There is a difference, however, between weapon passives that only affect those weapons skills - and weapon passives that affect all skills.. eg .
Twin blade and blunt with swords doesn't limit its bonus to only DW abilities..
Heavy Weapons with sword doesn't limit it's bonus to only 2-handed abilities.
Ancient Knowledge doesn't limit its bonus to staff abilities.
Yet one of those needs a skill equipped from that line, the other's don't.
The point is - where you want to use that generic buff to non-weapon abilities (like DW sorcs and NB's have done for years with twin blade and blunt) - you need to waste a slot to do with staff.
Doesn't seem unreasonable now to ask for it to work in a similar way to heavy weapons and twin blade and blunt - especially since DW for mag builds is now no longer a competitive(with staff) build choice. I mean, Zos have been trying to force all mag builds to go destro for damage for a lot of patches now. They may as well finish the job.
My comment is still very much correct in that the OP stated false information. You have merely worked at spitting hairs which has no bearing on the premise of my statement.
It really does seem few have an issue with this passive considering the very light traffic this thread has seen with few here supporting OP to begin with.
... lol... No
There is a difference in what certain things effect vs needing something slotted to gain the passive. For instance: The Slaughter passive applies to light attacks therefore you don't need a skill slotted. Hawkeye also affects light attacks
Ancient Knowledge is comparable to "Twin Blade and Blunt" which also does not require a DW skill to be slotted to gain the effect
Not really. The passive is very different with each staff compared to each DW weapon type.
It is only with one dstaff type does the passive seem similar.
So lol, you just destroyed your own argument since the passives are unique and considering others have pointed out this passive's requirements are in line with how some class passives are that demonstrates there is nothing irregular with it's design.
Again, seems that there is extremely light interest from those that do not like the passives to begin with.
No... You are beginning to not make a lot of sense now
lets say axes are like fire staves since bleeds give more single target damage.
And we can say daggers and swords are like a lightning stave because they passively increase the damage of your AoE effects and in some cases single target abilities that have an AoE function (like jabs)
I know someone who has 1 sword and 1 axe from BSW and he procs the axe bleed on people (he is a mDK) without having ANY ability for DW slotted.
Read again. You merely demonstrated how different the passives are not making them comparable to each other eliminating your basis for suggesting change. Think about it for a bit.
I have thought about it. We are looking to add consistency to the passives since they are actually comparable even when they do different things. I don't think you grasp that fully yet. This is about making the passive consistent in that you don't need a skill slotted for you to gain the effects as that is something typically reserved for class skills.
The fact of the matter is that the way the passive works is outdated/out of place and it's very hard to say that it isn't when literally every other weapon line has no such requirement and only class passives do. Be it for constistancy or QoL it should be changed and there is no real reason to not change it especially with the new skills added to the game.Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The passive is fine as it is.
Also @NyassaV is very incorrect that it is the only weapon skill line in the game that requires a skill to be slotted in order to get the passive.
DW Slaughter - only affects DW skills. Not only requires a DW skill but only benefits those skills.
Bow Hawk Eye - Only affects bow skills. Same ^^^^
The destro passive merely requires a skill be slotted which is a much sweeter design. it is much nicer having this passive affect class skills and others by merely having a weapon skill slotted.
There is a difference, however, between weapon passives that only affect those weapons skills - and weapon passives that affect all skills.. eg .
Twin blade and blunt with swords doesn't limit its bonus to only DW abilities..
Heavy Weapons with sword doesn't limit it's bonus to only 2-handed abilities.
Ancient Knowledge doesn't limit its bonus to staff abilities.
Yet one of those needs a skill equipped from that line, the other's don't.
The point is - where you want to use that generic buff to non-weapon abilities (like DW sorcs and NB's have done for years with twin blade and blunt) - you need to waste a slot to do with staff.
Doesn't seem unreasonable now to ask for it to work in a similar way to heavy weapons and twin blade and blunt - especially since DW for mag builds is now no longer a competitive(with staff) build choice. I mean, Zos have been trying to force all mag builds to go destro for damage for a lot of patches now. They may as well finish the job.
My comment is still very much correct in that the OP stated false information. You have merely worked at spitting hairs which has no bearing on the premise of my statement.
It really does seem few have an issue with this passive considering the very light traffic this thread has seen with few here supporting OP to begin with.
... lol... No
There is a difference in what certain things effect vs needing something slotted to gain the passive. For instance: The Slaughter passive applies to light attacks therefore you don't need a skill slotted. Hawkeye also affects light attacks
Ancient Knowledge is comparable to "Twin Blade and Blunt" which also does not require a DW skill to be slotted to gain the effect
Not really. The passive is very different with each staff compared to each DW weapon type.
It is only with one dstaff type does the passive seem similar.
So lol, you just destroyed your own argument since the passives are unique and considering others have pointed out this passive's requirements are in line with how some class passives are that demonstrates there is nothing irregular with it's design.
Again, seems that there is extremely light interest from those that do not like the passives to begin with.
No... You are beginning to not make a lot of sense now
lets say axes are like fire staves since bleeds give more single target damage.
And we can say daggers and swords are like a lightning stave because they passively increase the damage of your AoE effects and in some cases single target abilities that have an AoE function (like jabs)
I know someone who has 1 sword and 1 axe from BSW and he procs the axe bleed on people (he is a mDK) without having ANY ability for DW slotted.
Read again. You merely demonstrated how different the passives are not making them comparable to each other eliminating your basis for suggesting change. Think about it for a bit.
I have thought about it. We are looking to add consistency to the passives since they are actually comparable even when they do different things. I don't think you grasp that fully yet. This is about making the passive consistent in that you don't need a skill slotted for you to gain the effects as that is something typically reserved for class skills.
The fact of the matter is that the way the passive works is outdated/out of place and it's very hard to say that it isn't when literally every other weapon line has no such requirement and only class passives do. Be it for constistancy or QoL it should be changed and there is no real reason to not change it especially with the new skills added to the game.
It is very consistent with passives throughout the game. One would have to look at it extremely narrowly to say otherwise.
The fact of the matter is the passive is fairly new. One cannot say a one of the newest passives in the game is outdated. It is one of the newest weapon passives to be specific.
Your argument about consistency falls flat when looking at all weapon line passives. Heck, the weapons are used differently so it makes sense they have passives that would be different.
QoL, that is just an excuse, unless you are really wanting everything to be the same, eliminate differences across the board.0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The passive is fine as it is.
Also @NyassaV is very incorrect that it is the only weapon skill line in the game that requires a skill to be slotted in order to get the passive.
DW Slaughter - only affects DW skills. Not only requires a DW skill but only benefits those skills.
Bow Hawk Eye - Only affects bow skills. Same ^^^^
The destro passive merely requires a skill be slotted which is a much sweeter design. it is much nicer having this passive affect class skills and others by merely having a weapon skill slotted.
There is a difference, however, between weapon passives that only affect those weapons skills - and weapon passives that affect all skills.. eg .
Twin blade and blunt with swords doesn't limit its bonus to only DW abilities..
Heavy Weapons with sword doesn't limit it's bonus to only 2-handed abilities.
Ancient Knowledge doesn't limit its bonus to staff abilities.
Yet one of those needs a skill equipped from that line, the other's don't.
The point is - where you want to use that generic buff to non-weapon abilities (like DW sorcs and NB's have done for years with twin blade and blunt) - you need to waste a slot to do with staff.
Doesn't seem unreasonable now to ask for it to work in a similar way to heavy weapons and twin blade and blunt - especially since DW for mag builds is now no longer a competitive(with staff) build choice. I mean, Zos have been trying to force all mag builds to go destro for damage for a lot of patches now. They may as well finish the job.
My comment is still very much correct in that the OP stated false information. You have merely worked at spitting hairs which has no bearing on the premise of my statement.
It really does seem few have an issue with this passive considering the very light traffic this thread has seen with few here supporting OP to begin with.
... lol... No
There is a difference in what certain things effect vs needing something slotted to gain the passive. For instance: The Slaughter passive applies to light attacks therefore you don't need a skill slotted. Hawkeye also affects light attacks
Ancient Knowledge is comparable to "Twin Blade and Blunt" which also does not require a DW skill to be slotted to gain the effect
Not really. The passive is very different with each staff compared to each DW weapon type.
It is only with one dstaff type does the passive seem similar.
So lol, you just destroyed your own argument since the passives are unique and considering others have pointed out this passive's requirements are in line with how some class passives are that demonstrates there is nothing irregular with it's design.
Again, seems that there is extremely light interest from those that do not like the passives to begin with.
No... You are beginning to not make a lot of sense now
lets say axes are like fire staves since bleeds give more single target damage.
And we can say daggers and swords are like a lightning stave because they passively increase the damage of your AoE effects and in some cases single target abilities that have an AoE function (like jabs)
I know someone who has 1 sword and 1 axe from BSW and he procs the axe bleed on people (he is a mDK) without having ANY ability for DW slotted.
Read again. You merely demonstrated how different the passives are not making them comparable to each other eliminating your basis for suggesting change. Think about it for a bit.
I have thought about it. We are looking to add consistency to the passives since they are actually comparable even when they do different things. I don't think you grasp that fully yet. This is about making the passive consistent in that you don't need a skill slotted for you to gain the effects as that is something typically reserved for class skills.
The fact of the matter is that the way the passive works is outdated/out of place and it's very hard to say that it isn't when literally every other weapon line has no such requirement and only class passives do. Be it for constistancy or QoL it should be changed and there is no real reason to not change it especially with the new skills added to the game.
It is pretty ridiculous that there are people refusing to believe the wording of these passives. Fact is, Destro staff is the only weapon that has passives that effect skills that are not destro skills but requires a destro skill to be slotted in order for those passives to work. The type of staff is irrelevant. Either, destro needs to be brought in line with the other weapons and not require a skill be slotted for the passives to work, or the other weapons need to have an added requirement for the passives to work, i.e. slotting a skill from the weapon line. It is pretty ridiculous that a stamina character can make use of damage increasing passives for their skills without needing to slot a weapon skill and only using class skills. In fact, stamina characters and melee magicka are the only ones who can use a stamina weapon and fully benefit from the passives without needing to slot a skill.
I am sure if the second option (requiring a skill to be slotted for all weapon type passives to work) were put in place, it would be the end of stamina weapons on magicka characters and we would have a slew of stamina players complaining that they have to slot a weapon skill to get their twin blade and blunt passive to work because they don't want to use any of the skills.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The passive is fine as it is.
Also @NyassaV is very incorrect that it is the only weapon skill line in the game that requires a skill to be slotted in order to get the passive.
DW Slaughter - only affects DW skills. Not only requires a DW skill but only benefits those skills.
Bow Hawk Eye - Only affects bow skills. Same ^^^^
The destro passive merely requires a skill be slotted which is a much sweeter design. it is much nicer having this passive affect class skills and others by merely having a weapon skill slotted.
There is a difference, however, between weapon passives that only affect those weapons skills - and weapon passives that affect all skills.. eg .
Twin blade and blunt with swords doesn't limit its bonus to only DW abilities..
Heavy Weapons with sword doesn't limit it's bonus to only 2-handed abilities.
Ancient Knowledge doesn't limit its bonus to staff abilities.
Yet one of those needs a skill equipped from that line, the other's don't.
The point is - where you want to use that generic buff to non-weapon abilities (like DW sorcs and NB's have done for years with twin blade and blunt) - you need to waste a slot to do with staff.
Doesn't seem unreasonable now to ask for it to work in a similar way to heavy weapons and twin blade and blunt - especially since DW for mag builds is now no longer a competitive(with staff) build choice. I mean, Zos have been trying to force all mag builds to go destro for damage for a lot of patches now. They may as well finish the job.
My comment is still very much correct in that the OP stated false information. You have merely worked at spitting hairs which has no bearing on the premise of my statement.
It really does seem few have an issue with this passive considering the very light traffic this thread has seen with few here supporting OP to begin with.
... lol... No
There is a difference in what certain things effect vs needing something slotted to gain the passive. For instance: The Slaughter passive applies to light attacks therefore you don't need a skill slotted. Hawkeye also affects light attacks
Ancient Knowledge is comparable to "Twin Blade and Blunt" which also does not require a DW skill to be slotted to gain the effect
Not really. The passive is very different with each staff compared to each DW weapon type.
It is only with one dstaff type does the passive seem similar.
So lol, you just destroyed your own argument since the passives are unique and considering others have pointed out this passive's requirements are in line with how some class passives are that demonstrates there is nothing irregular with it's design.
Again, seems that there is extremely light interest from those that do not like the passives to begin with.
No... You are beginning to not make a lot of sense now
lets say axes are like fire staves since bleeds give more single target damage.
And we can say daggers and swords are like a lightning stave because they passively increase the damage of your AoE effects and in some cases single target abilities that have an AoE function (like jabs)
I know someone who has 1 sword and 1 axe from BSW and he procs the axe bleed on people (he is a mDK) without having ANY ability for DW slotted.
Read again. You merely demonstrated how different the passives are not making them comparable to each other eliminating your basis for suggesting change. Think about it for a bit.
I have thought about it. We are looking to add consistency to the passives since they are actually comparable even when they do different things. I don't think you grasp that fully yet. This is about making the passive consistent in that you don't need a skill slotted for you to gain the effects as that is something typically reserved for class skills.
The fact of the matter is that the way the passive works is outdated/out of place and it's very hard to say that it isn't when literally every other weapon line has no such requirement and only class passives do. Be it for constistancy or QoL it should be changed and there is no real reason to not change it especially with the new skills added to the game.
It is pretty ridiculous that there are people refusing to believe the wording of these passives.
Has someone refused to believe the wording of the passive?0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The passive is fine as it is.
Also @NyassaV is very incorrect that it is the only weapon skill line in the game that requires a skill to be slotted in order to get the passive.
DW Slaughter - only affects DW skills. Not only requires a DW skill but only benefits those skills.
Bow Hawk Eye - Only affects bow skills. Same ^^^^
The destro passive merely requires a skill be slotted which is a much sweeter design. it is much nicer having this passive affect class skills and others by merely having a weapon skill slotted.
There is a difference, however, between weapon passives that only affect those weapons skills - and weapon passives that affect all skills.. eg .
Twin blade and blunt with swords doesn't limit its bonus to only DW abilities..
Heavy Weapons with sword doesn't limit it's bonus to only 2-handed abilities.
Ancient Knowledge doesn't limit its bonus to staff abilities.
Yet one of those needs a skill equipped from that line, the other's don't.
The point is - where you want to use that generic buff to non-weapon abilities (like DW sorcs and NB's have done for years with twin blade and blunt) - you need to waste a slot to do with staff.
Doesn't seem unreasonable now to ask for it to work in a similar way to heavy weapons and twin blade and blunt - especially since DW for mag builds is now no longer a competitive(with staff) build choice. I mean, Zos have been trying to force all mag builds to go destro for damage for a lot of patches now. They may as well finish the job.
My comment is still very much correct in that the OP stated false information. You have merely worked at spitting hairs which has no bearing on the premise of my statement.
It really does seem few have an issue with this passive considering the very light traffic this thread has seen with few here supporting OP to begin with.
... lol... No
There is a difference in what certain things effect vs needing something slotted to gain the passive. For instance: The Slaughter passive applies to light attacks therefore you don't need a skill slotted. Hawkeye also affects light attacks
Ancient Knowledge is comparable to "Twin Blade and Blunt" which also does not require a DW skill to be slotted to gain the effect
Not really. The passive is very different with each staff compared to each DW weapon type.
It is only with one dstaff type does the passive seem similar.
So lol, you just destroyed your own argument since the passives are unique and considering others have pointed out this passive's requirements are in line with how some class passives are that demonstrates there is nothing irregular with it's design.
Again, seems that there is extremely light interest from those that do not like the passives to begin with.
No... You are beginning to not make a lot of sense now
lets say axes are like fire staves since bleeds give more single target damage.
And we can say daggers and swords are like a lightning stave because they passively increase the damage of your AoE effects and in some cases single target abilities that have an AoE function (like jabs)
I know someone who has 1 sword and 1 axe from BSW and he procs the axe bleed on people (he is a mDK) without having ANY ability for DW slotted.
Read again. You merely demonstrated how different the passives are not making them comparable to each other eliminating your basis for suggesting change. Think about it for a bit.
I have thought about it. We are looking to add consistency to the passives since they are actually comparable even when they do different things. I don't think you grasp that fully yet. This is about making the passive consistent in that you don't need a skill slotted for you to gain the effects as that is something typically reserved for class skills.
The fact of the matter is that the way the passive works is outdated/out of place and it's very hard to say that it isn't when literally every other weapon line has no such requirement and only class passives do. Be it for constistancy or QoL it should be changed and there is no real reason to not change it especially with the new skills added to the game.
It is pretty ridiculous that there are people refusing to believe the wording of these passives.
Has someone refused to believe the wording of the passive?
When you say proponents of the change are "splitting hairs" you are ignoring that the passives in question all augment non-weapon skills, with only the destro staff requiring a weapon skill to be slotted for the passives to work. That isn't splitting hairs, that is a reality.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The passive is fine as it is.
Also @NyassaV is very incorrect that it is the only weapon skill line in the game that requires a skill to be slotted in order to get the passive.
DW Slaughter - only affects DW skills. Not only requires a DW skill but only benefits those skills.
Bow Hawk Eye - Only affects bow skills. Same ^^^^
The destro passive merely requires a skill be slotted which is a much sweeter design. it is much nicer having this passive affect class skills and others by merely having a weapon skill slotted.
There is a difference, however, between weapon passives that only affect those weapons skills - and weapon passives that affect all skills.. eg .
Twin blade and blunt with swords doesn't limit its bonus to only DW abilities..
Heavy Weapons with sword doesn't limit it's bonus to only 2-handed abilities.
Ancient Knowledge doesn't limit its bonus to staff abilities.
Yet one of those needs a skill equipped from that line, the other's don't.
The point is - where you want to use that generic buff to non-weapon abilities (like DW sorcs and NB's have done for years with twin blade and blunt) - you need to waste a slot to do with staff.
Doesn't seem unreasonable now to ask for it to work in a similar way to heavy weapons and twin blade and blunt - especially since DW for mag builds is now no longer a competitive(with staff) build choice. I mean, Zos have been trying to force all mag builds to go destro for damage for a lot of patches now. They may as well finish the job.
My comment is still very much correct in that the OP stated false information. You have merely worked at spitting hairs which has no bearing on the premise of my statement.
It really does seem few have an issue with this passive considering the very light traffic this thread has seen with few here supporting OP to begin with.
... lol... No
There is a difference in what certain things effect vs needing something slotted to gain the passive. For instance: The Slaughter passive applies to light attacks therefore you don't need a skill slotted. Hawkeye also affects light attacks
Ancient Knowledge is comparable to "Twin Blade and Blunt" which also does not require a DW skill to be slotted to gain the effect
Not really. The passive is very different with each staff compared to each DW weapon type.
It is only with one dstaff type does the passive seem similar.
So lol, you just destroyed your own argument since the passives are unique and considering others have pointed out this passive's requirements are in line with how some class passives are that demonstrates there is nothing irregular with it's design.
Again, seems that there is extremely light interest from those that do not like the passives to begin with.
No... You are beginning to not make a lot of sense now
lets say axes are like fire staves since bleeds give more single target damage.
And we can say daggers and swords are like a lightning stave because they passively increase the damage of your AoE effects and in some cases single target abilities that have an AoE function (like jabs)
I know someone who has 1 sword and 1 axe from BSW and he procs the axe bleed on people (he is a mDK) without having ANY ability for DW slotted.
Read again. You merely demonstrated how different the passives are not making them comparable to each other eliminating your basis for suggesting change. Think about it for a bit.
I have thought about it. We are looking to add consistency to the passives since they are actually comparable even when they do different things. I don't think you grasp that fully yet. This is about making the passive consistent in that you don't need a skill slotted for you to gain the effects as that is something typically reserved for class skills.
The fact of the matter is that the way the passive works is outdated/out of place and it's very hard to say that it isn't when literally every other weapon line has no such requirement and only class passives do. Be it for constistancy or QoL it should be changed and there is no real reason to not change it especially with the new skills added to the game.
It is pretty ridiculous that there are people refusing to believe the wording of these passives.
Has someone refused to believe the wording of the passive?
When you say proponents of the change are "splitting hairs" you are ignoring that the passives in question all augment non-weapon skills, with only the destro staff requiring a weapon skill to be slotted for the passives to work. That isn't splitting hairs, that is a reality.
No, it is you that are ignoring everything else and only looking extremely narrowly.
I do not want everything in the game to be the same as you do.0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The passive is fine as it is.
Also @NyassaV is very incorrect that it is the only weapon skill line in the game that requires a skill to be slotted in order to get the passive.
DW Slaughter - only affects DW skills. Not only requires a DW skill but only benefits those skills.
Bow Hawk Eye - Only affects bow skills. Same ^^^^
The destro passive merely requires a skill be slotted which is a much sweeter design. it is much nicer having this passive affect class skills and others by merely having a weapon skill slotted.
There is a difference, however, between weapon passives that only affect those weapons skills - and weapon passives that affect all skills.. eg .
Twin blade and blunt with swords doesn't limit its bonus to only DW abilities..
Heavy Weapons with sword doesn't limit it's bonus to only 2-handed abilities.
Ancient Knowledge doesn't limit its bonus to staff abilities.
Yet one of those needs a skill equipped from that line, the other's don't.
The point is - where you want to use that generic buff to non-weapon abilities (like DW sorcs and NB's have done for years with twin blade and blunt) - you need to waste a slot to do with staff.
Doesn't seem unreasonable now to ask for it to work in a similar way to heavy weapons and twin blade and blunt - especially since DW for mag builds is now no longer a competitive(with staff) build choice. I mean, Zos have been trying to force all mag builds to go destro for damage for a lot of patches now. They may as well finish the job.
My comment is still very much correct in that the OP stated false information. You have merely worked at spitting hairs which has no bearing on the premise of my statement.
It really does seem few have an issue with this passive considering the very light traffic this thread has seen with few here supporting OP to begin with.
... lol... No
There is a difference in what certain things effect vs needing something slotted to gain the passive. For instance: The Slaughter passive applies to light attacks therefore you don't need a skill slotted. Hawkeye also affects light attacks
Ancient Knowledge is comparable to "Twin Blade and Blunt" which also does not require a DW skill to be slotted to gain the effect
Not really. The passive is very different with each staff compared to each DW weapon type.
It is only with one dstaff type does the passive seem similar.
So lol, you just destroyed your own argument since the passives are unique and considering others have pointed out this passive's requirements are in line with how some class passives are that demonstrates there is nothing irregular with it's design.
Again, seems that there is extremely light interest from those that do not like the passives to begin with.
No... You are beginning to not make a lot of sense now
lets say axes are like fire staves since bleeds give more single target damage.
And we can say daggers and swords are like a lightning stave because they passively increase the damage of your AoE effects and in some cases single target abilities that have an AoE function (like jabs)
I know someone who has 1 sword and 1 axe from BSW and he procs the axe bleed on people (he is a mDK) without having ANY ability for DW slotted.
Read again. You merely demonstrated how different the passives are not making them comparable to each other eliminating your basis for suggesting change. Think about it for a bit.
I have thought about it. We are looking to add consistency to the passives since they are actually comparable even when they do different things. I don't think you grasp that fully yet. This is about making the passive consistent in that you don't need a skill slotted for you to gain the effects as that is something typically reserved for class skills.
The fact of the matter is that the way the passive works is outdated/out of place and it's very hard to say that it isn't when literally every other weapon line has no such requirement and only class passives do. Be it for constistancy or QoL it should be changed and there is no real reason to not change it especially with the new skills added to the game.
It is pretty ridiculous that there are people refusing to believe the wording of these passives.
Has someone refused to believe the wording of the passive?
When you say proponents of the change are "splitting hairs" you are ignoring that the passives in question all augment non-weapon skills, with only the destro staff requiring a weapon skill to be slotted for the passives to work. That isn't splitting hairs, that is a reality.
No, it is you that are ignoring everything else and only looking extremely narrowly.
I do not want everything in the game to be the same as you do.
Not really though. My argument is for consistency. We have 6 weapon types. 5 of those weapon types do not require skills be slotted for passives that effect skills outside of the weapon skill line. Only one require a skill to be slotted for similar passives to work.
Compare that to armor. Every armor type has 2 passives that require 5 or more pieces to be equipped in order for those passives to work. The skills for each armor type only work if you have 5 or more pieces equipped. That is consistency. The passives are not the same nor are the skills so everything isn't the same. Just consistent.
The same should be done with weapons.0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »
Oh I’m well aware of the crusade to buff mag/magblade and nerf stamina that OP is on. But OP has literally made this thread a short time ago nearly word for word. We definitely need a limit of posts per month for each user. So you really think about what you want to say, myself included. I’d say three posts a month max. Then maybe over time certain users gain the right to post more often.
No, i was literally reffering to the amount of threads the OP in particular made regarding the subject. Lol0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The passive is fine as it is.
Also @NyassaV is very incorrect that it is the only weapon skill line in the game that requires a skill to be slotted in order to get the passive.
DW Slaughter - only affects DW skills. Not only requires a DW skill but only benefits those skills.
Bow Hawk Eye - Only affects bow skills. Same ^^^^
The destro passive merely requires a skill be slotted which is a much sweeter design. it is much nicer having this passive affect class skills and others by merely having a weapon skill slotted.
There is a difference, however, between weapon passives that only affect those weapons skills - and weapon passives that affect all skills.. eg .
Twin blade and blunt with swords doesn't limit its bonus to only DW abilities..
Heavy Weapons with sword doesn't limit it's bonus to only 2-handed abilities.
Ancient Knowledge doesn't limit its bonus to staff abilities.
Yet one of those needs a skill equipped from that line, the other's don't.
The point is - where you want to use that generic buff to non-weapon abilities (like DW sorcs and NB's have done for years with twin blade and blunt) - you need to waste a slot to do with staff.
Doesn't seem unreasonable now to ask for it to work in a similar way to heavy weapons and twin blade and blunt - especially since DW for mag builds is now no longer a competitive(with staff) build choice. I mean, Zos have been trying to force all mag builds to go destro for damage for a lot of patches now. They may as well finish the job.
You are drawing from the wrong analgoues here. Tri focus and elemental force do not require an ability slotted. People are just too hung up on the raw damage increase benefits compared to the other benefits that are offered.0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »The passive is fine as it is.
Also @NyassaV is very incorrect that it is the only weapon skill line in the game that requires a skill to be slotted in order to get the passive.
DW Slaughter - only affects DW skills. Not only requires a DW skill but only benefits those skills.
Bow Hawk Eye - Only affects bow skills. Same ^^^^
The destro passive merely requires a skill be slotted which is a much sweeter design. it is much nicer having this passive affect class skills and others by merely having a weapon skill slotted.
There is a difference, however, between weapon passives that only affect those weapons skills - and weapon passives that affect all skills.. eg .
Twin blade and blunt with swords doesn't limit its bonus to only DW abilities..
Heavy Weapons with sword doesn't limit it's bonus to only 2-handed abilities.
Ancient Knowledge doesn't limit its bonus to staff abilities.
Yet one of those needs a skill equipped from that line, the other's don't.
The point is - where you want to use that generic buff to non-weapon abilities (like DW sorcs and NB's have done for years with twin blade and blunt) - you need to waste a slot to do with staff.
Doesn't seem unreasonable now to ask for it to work in a similar way to heavy weapons and twin blade and blunt - especially since DW for mag builds is now no longer a competitive(with staff) build choice. I mean, Zos have been trying to force all mag builds to go destro for damage for a lot of patches now. They may as well finish the job.
You are drawing from the wrong analgoues here. Tri focus and elemental force do not require an ability slotted. People are just too hung up on the raw damage increase benefits compared to the other benefits that are offered.
Tri focus only effects heavy attacks. And elemental force doesn't really alter the point. Destro staff is still the only weapon that requires a weapon skill to be slotted for a passive that effects abilities that are non weapon abilities. Just because other destro passives don't have that requirement doesn't change this fact.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The passive is fine as it is.
Also @NyassaV is very incorrect that it is the only weapon skill line in the game that requires a skill to be slotted in order to get the passive.
DW Slaughter - only affects DW skills. Not only requires a DW skill but only benefits those skills.
Bow Hawk Eye - Only affects bow skills. Same ^^^^
The destro passive merely requires a skill be slotted which is a much sweeter design. it is much nicer having this passive affect class skills and others by merely having a weapon skill slotted.
There is a difference, however, between weapon passives that only affect those weapons skills - and weapon passives that affect all skills.. eg .
Twin blade and blunt with swords doesn't limit its bonus to only DW abilities..
Heavy Weapons with sword doesn't limit it's bonus to only 2-handed abilities.
Ancient Knowledge doesn't limit its bonus to staff abilities.
Yet one of those needs a skill equipped from that line, the other's don't.
The point is - where you want to use that generic buff to non-weapon abilities (like DW sorcs and NB's have done for years with twin blade and blunt) - you need to waste a slot to do with staff.
Doesn't seem unreasonable now to ask for it to work in a similar way to heavy weapons and twin blade and blunt - especially since DW for mag builds is now no longer a competitive(with staff) build choice. I mean, Zos have been trying to force all mag builds to go destro for damage for a lot of patches now. They may as well finish the job.
My comment is still very much correct in that the OP stated false information. You have merely worked at spitting hairs which has no bearing on the premise of my statement.
It really does seem few have an issue with this passive considering the very light traffic this thread has seen with few here supporting OP to begin with.
... lol... No
There is a difference in what certain things effect vs needing something slotted to gain the passive. For instance: The Slaughter passive applies to light attacks therefore you don't need a skill slotted. Hawkeye also affects light attacks
Ancient Knowledge is comparable to "Twin Blade and Blunt" which also does not require a DW skill to be slotted to gain the effect
Not really. The passive is very different with each staff compared to each DW weapon type.
It is only with one dstaff type does the passive seem similar.
So lol, you just destroyed your own argument since the passives are unique and considering others have pointed out this passive's requirements are in line with how some class passives are that demonstrates there is nothing irregular with it's design.
Again, seems that there is extremely light interest from those that do not like the passives to begin with.
No... You are beginning to not make a lot of sense now
lets say axes are like fire staves since bleeds give more single target damage.
And we can say daggers and swords are like a lightning stave because they passively increase the damage of your AoE effects and in some cases single target abilities that have an AoE function (like jabs)
I know someone who has 1 sword and 1 axe from BSW and he procs the axe bleed on people (he is a mDK) without having ANY ability for DW slotted.
Read again. You merely demonstrated how different the passives are not making them comparable to each other eliminating your basis for suggesting change. Think about it for a bit.
I have thought about it. We are looking to add consistency to the passives since they are actually comparable even when they do different things. I don't think you grasp that fully yet. This is about making the passive consistent in that you don't need a skill slotted for you to gain the effects as that is something typically reserved for class skills.
The fact of the matter is that the way the passive works is outdated/out of place and it's very hard to say that it isn't when literally every other weapon line has no such requirement and only class passives do. Be it for constistancy or QoL it should be changed and there is no real reason to not change it especially with the new skills added to the game.
It is pretty ridiculous that there are people refusing to believe the wording of these passives.
Has someone refused to believe the wording of the passive?
When you say proponents of the change are "splitting hairs" you are ignoring that the passives in question all augment non-weapon skills, with only the destro staff requiring a weapon skill to be slotted for the passives to work. That isn't splitting hairs, that is a reality.
No, it is you that are ignoring everything else and only looking extremely narrowly.
I do not want everything in the game to be the same as you do.
Not really though. My argument is for consistency. We have 6 weapon types. 5 of those weapon types do not require skills be slotted for passives that effect skills outside of the weapon skill line. Only one require a skill to be slotted for similar passives to work.
Compare that to armor. Every armor type has 2 passives that require 5 or more pieces to be equipped in order for those passives to work. The skills for each armor type only work if you have 5 or more pieces equipped. That is consistency. The passives are not the same nor are the skills so everything isn't the same. Just consistent.
The same should be done with weapons.
Clearly you are stretching things to compare damage weapons to healing and tanking weapons to talk about 6 weapon lines in relation to this subject.
Second, you are still looking at this skewed to suite your argument because I have already pointed out some of those passives only affect skills from that line which by definition require skills from that line to be slotted.
You really cannot pick and choose and bend reality to make this happen.
Since this argument has so drawn interest from so few (since many welcomed the ancient knowledge passive) and the argument hinges on a very narrowly defined platform I do not see much reason to continue this discussion unless something other than discussion the rstaff comes into play that actually sheds some real light on the discussion.
0 -
Jsmalls✭✭✭✭✭
✭@idk
No one is stretching anything. We're taking points directly related to our continued use of the consistency argument regarding Weapon Skill Lines and applying it to the where the inconsistency is present.
You claim that these skill lines aren't comparable, but they are directly comparable as the Weapons we have to choose from and should be balanced as such. Any obvious inconsistencies would create more benefit in all scenarios by choosing one over another. And this has been the case for so long that it had been up until summerset that magicka classes have been choosing DW and S&B over their magical weapon skill lines counter parts. The implemention of 2 piece bonuses on 2 handed weapons was the first step in correcting an inbalance that had been present for far too long, and began to close the gap between staff and DW. Now we look to eliminate the gap in advantages of one skill like over another based on ability selection.
To insist Sword and Board is only used for tanking is ludicrous and ignorant. It is an EXTREMELY popular choice for both magicka and stamina alike (In PvP) and relates to the other skill lines in implemention of passives.
Resto staff is also VERY popular in PvP, but I'll save addressing this skill line until later.
Two-Handed: 1/5 passives ability required
Forceful: Ability not required
Heavy Weapons: Ability not required (Grants a bonus based on type of weapon)
Balanced Blade: Ability required
Follow Up: Ability not required
Battle Rush: Ability not required
One Hand and Shield: 0/5 passives ability required
Fortress: Ability not required (Reduced block cost 36%)
Sword and Board: Ability not required (increased weapon damage and blocking damage)
Deadly Bash: Ability not required
Deflect Bolts: Ability not required
Battle field mobility: Ability not required
Dual Wield: 2/5 passives ability required
Slaughter: Ability required
Dual wield expert: Ability not required
Controlled fury: Ability required
Ruffian: Ability not required
Twin blade and blunt: Ability not required (Grants a bonus based on weapon type)
Bow: 2/5 passives ability required
Long shots: Ability required
Accuracy: Ability not required (Increase in stats)
Ranger: Ability not required
HawkEye: Ability required
Hasty retreat: Ability not required
Destruction staff: 3/5 passives ability required
Tri-focus: Ability not required
Penetrating magic: Ability required
Elemental Force: Ability not required
Ancient Knowledge: Ability required (Grants a bonus based on weapon type)
Destruction Expert: Ability required
Restoration staff I will not address each passive as I've been told the passives are misleading and may only affect restoration staff abilities and not healing as a whole.
From here you can see that Destruction staff is required (more so than any other weapon skill line) to slot an ability to have use of 3/5 of it's passives. In particular and in comparison to the other 3 main damage weapon skill lines and one hand and shield skill line, the passive that increases damage directly or stats (weapon crit) directly is inconsistent.
The passives Heavy Weapons, Sword and Board, Twin blade and blunt, Accuracy, and Ancient knowledge should all be considered under the same ruleset as they all offer similar benefits. The only passive of that group that requires a skill slotted is Ancient knowledge.
The only reality being bent is yours in viewing these skill lines as incomparable.2 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »The passive is fine as it is.
Also @NyassaV is very incorrect that it is the only weapon skill line in the game that requires a skill to be slotted in order to get the passive.
DW Slaughter - only affects DW skills. Not only requires a DW skill but only benefits those skills.
Bow Hawk Eye - Only affects bow skills. Same ^^^^
The destro passive merely requires a skill be slotted which is a much sweeter design. it is much nicer having this passive affect class skills and others by merely having a weapon skill slotted.
There is a difference, however, between weapon passives that only affect those weapons skills - and weapon passives that affect all skills.. eg .
Twin blade and blunt with swords doesn't limit its bonus to only DW abilities..
Heavy Weapons with sword doesn't limit it's bonus to only 2-handed abilities.
Ancient Knowledge doesn't limit its bonus to staff abilities.
Yet one of those needs a skill equipped from that line, the other's don't.
The point is - where you want to use that generic buff to non-weapon abilities (like DW sorcs and NB's have done for years with twin blade and blunt) - you need to waste a slot to do with staff.
Doesn't seem unreasonable now to ask for it to work in a similar way to heavy weapons and twin blade and blunt - especially since DW for mag builds is now no longer a competitive(with staff) build choice. I mean, Zos have been trying to force all mag builds to go destro for damage for a lot of patches now. They may as well finish the job.
You are drawing from the wrong analgoues here. Tri focus and elemental force do not require an ability slotted. People are just too hung up on the raw damage increase benefits compared to the other benefits that are offered.
Tri focus only effects heavy attacks. And elemental force doesn't really alter the point. Destro staff is still the only weapon that requires a weapon skill to be slotted for a passive that effects abilities that are non weapon abilities. Just because other destro passives don't have that requirement doesn't change this fact.
Irrelevant. You are assuming the single passive that increases damage overall should apply in same measure to the comparisons to other weapon skill lines when there are other variables beyond flat damage increases that effect the weight of the destro skill line.0