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Is Berserker Strike balanced?
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Dredlord✭✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »I think it should cost 70 ultimate just like incap. This will give all stamina users the option of having a cheap single Target ult or a strong aoe ultimate. Even though I feel most people will still use dbos. In my opinion it's the best ultimate in the game
I disagree. Class ultimates should always be superior to their Weapon counterparts
At 70 ultimate you could argue that incap is still the better ultimate. At 100 ultimate it's no reason to use this over dbos. I wouldn't even use incap if it was 100 ultimate. If I'm going to pay 100 or more for a ultimate it's going to be aoe
This attitude just shows how easy NB have it...Edited by Dredlord on May 21, 2018 5:39PM1 -
AverageJo3Gam3r✭✭✭✭✭110 would be a fair ultimate cost. It should be cheaper than 125 which is the cost of flame leap which is both an AoE and provides defensive buffs just like the 2H ult. 110 puts it in the same realm as take flight which provides no defensive buffs but is an AoE.Edited by AverageJo3Gam3r on May 21, 2018 6:49PM0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you are overbuffing beserk strike we could run into the same issue we have with Stamnbs right now.
Running into a fight and ending it in less than 3 seconds.
Beserk strike brings some unique and strong things to the table.
- ignores resistances (very very, strong guarantees 8-12k hits on any player with a crit)
- good damage
- gives you often more than 20k resistances in some situations even 30k+ resistances which means that you'll have 50% damage mitigation for the duration against any build that doesn't feature an absurd amount of resistances
- one good morph for any situation and one situational one that can be very strong
Imo a cost reduction is needed but not lower than 110 ultimate. You have to remember that you have a high damage ult that provides good defence aswell.
I actually think the cost is ok. Certain builds can bulk up their ultimates, so they have a much higher uptime on this ultimate than other builds.
I think the duration in which you receive cc/snare immunity and the resists should persist longer.
This way you incentivize using the skill at certain times as a "yolo im an ORC, hear me roar" berserker skill but keep it away from the OP mess that is Incap.
Plus we all know incap is going to get a nerf at some point lol.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Changing the cost for incap would harm pve war machine builds and would cause pvp nightblades to use dbos. A cost reduction for beserker strike is more in order. To nerf incap, look at the stun0 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭thankyourat wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »I think it should cost 70 ultimate just like incap. This will give all stamina users the option of having a cheap single Target ult or a strong aoe ultimate. Even though I feel most people will still use dbos. In my opinion it's the best ultimate in the game
I disagree. Class ultimates should always be superior to their Weapon counterparts
At 70 ultimate you could argue that incap is still the better ultimate. At 100 ultimate it's no reason to use this over dbos. I wouldn't even use incap if it was 100 ultimate. If I'm going to pay 100 or more for a ultimate it's going to be aoe
This attitude just shows how easy NB have it...
I'm not understanding your point here. why would I want to pay more than 100 ultimate for a single Target ultimate when for just slightly more ultimate cost I could use an aoe ultimate. I don't understand how this translates into nightblades have it easy. If incap was more expensive that would be the benefit over using incap over dbos for Stam and soul tether for mag. Both of those abilities have damage comparable to incap while being aoe and undodgeable. The same can be said about the 2hand ultimate If I have to pay 100 or more ultimate I would never use this ability over dbos because dbos is aoe2 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »I think it should cost 70 ultimate just like incap. This will give all stamina users the option of having a cheap single Target ult or a strong aoe ultimate. Even though I feel most people will still use dbos. In my opinion it's the best ultimate in the game
I disagree. Class ultimates should always be superior to their Weapon counterparts
At 70 ultimate you could argue that incap is still the better ultimate. At 100 ultimate it's no reason to use this over dbos. I wouldn't even use incap if it was 100 ultimate. If I'm going to pay 100 or more for a ultimate it's going to be aoe
This attitude just shows how easy NB have it...
I'm not understanding your point here. why would I want to pay more than 100 ultimate for a single Target ultimate when for just slightly more ultimate cost I could use an aoe ultimate. I don't understand how this translates into nightblades have it easy. If incap was more expensive that would be the benefit over using incap over dbos for Stam and soul tether for mag. Both of those abilities have damage comparable to incap while being aoe and undodgeable. The same can be said about the 2hand ultimate If I have to pay 100 or more ultimate I would never use this ability over dbos because dbos is aoe
In a one on one situation, like ganking or dueling, whether the ult is AOE or single target doesn’t matter
But I do agree with you.. rather than making single target ultimates more expensive, I think it would be more balanced to offer cheap single target ultimates on par with incap to the other classes.PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp0 -
ChefZero✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »I think it should cost 70 ultimate just like incap. This will give all stamina users the option of having a cheap single Target ult or a strong aoe ultimate. Even though I feel most people will still use dbos. In my opinion it's the best ultimate in the game
I disagree. Class ultimates should always be superior to their Weapon counterparts
At 70 ultimate you could argue that incap is still the better ultimate. At 100 ultimate it's no reason to use this over dbos. I wouldn't even use incap if it was 100 ultimate. If I'm going to pay 100 or more for a ultimate it's going to be aoe
This attitude just shows how easy NB have it...
I'm not understanding your point here. why would I want to pay more than 100 ultimate for a single Target ultimate when for just slightly more ultimate cost I could use an aoe ultimate. I don't understand how this translates into nightblades have it easy. If incap was more expensive that would be the benefit over using incap over dbos for Stam and soul tether for mag. Both of those abilities have damage comparable to incap while being aoe and undodgeable. The same can be said about the 2hand ultimate If I have to pay 100 or more ultimate I would never use this ability over dbos because dbos is aoe
Same question to you. What if DB cost 150?PC EU - DC only0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭If we go with the assumption that incap is as cheap as it is because it’s single target, then yes, berserker strike should have its cost lowered to match.
Although I think we can all agree incap needs an increase in cost. Incap is a million times better than beserk strike. If incap were the 2H ult everyone would be using it. I don’t think any ult should be as low of a cost as incap. And incap should probably be at least 125 if not 150 seeing how well NBs gain ult.
That would be the death of Incap. Dawnbreaker is the better ult, but Incap is used due to how inexpensive it is. Also Berserker Strike is also better than incap yet it is barely more expensive than Dawnbreaker, and no one uses it.
Since Berserker Strike is dodgeable and a single target ability, I think it should cost no more than 100 ult; which would make it cost 85 for Sorcs.0 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭thankyourat wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »I think it should cost 70 ultimate just like incap. This will give all stamina users the option of having a cheap single Target ult or a strong aoe ultimate. Even though I feel most people will still use dbos. In my opinion it's the best ultimate in the game
I disagree. Class ultimates should always be superior to their Weapon counterparts
At 70 ultimate you could argue that incap is still the better ultimate. At 100 ultimate it's no reason to use this over dbos. I wouldn't even use incap if it was 100 ultimate. If I'm going to pay 100 or more for a ultimate it's going to be aoe
This attitude just shows how easy NB have it...
I'm not understanding your point here. why would I want to pay more than 100 ultimate for a single Target ultimate when for just slightly more ultimate cost I could use an aoe ultimate. I don't understand how this translates into nightblades have it easy. If incap was more expensive that would be the benefit over using incap over dbos for Stam and soul tether for mag. Both of those abilities have damage comparable to incap while being aoe and undodgeable. The same can be said about the 2hand ultimate If I have to pay 100 or more ultimate I would never use this ability over dbos because dbos is aoe
Same question to you. What if DB cost 150?
3 of the other 4 stam classes will qq to the point this change wont be made, so this change is moot. Plus I would still use dbos as the cost difference between it and incap would still favor dbos. In fact, soul tether would be attractive at that point too as it is 360° and heals you0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Onslaught needs 2 Changes. A cost reduction to ~100 ult and cleave damage that scales similarly to reverse slice
That would be too cheap for what it is now; never mind with added cleave. I’d love it but with smart use of that and immovable pots with bloodspawn; I’d have contestant CC immunity on my Stamplar. A Warden probably wouldn’t need a pot and the splash damage would now synergies with shalks.
I’d think adding splash damage at current cost would work since it hits with full damage if the DBOS DOT minus initial hit but ignores armor so it would be competitive with that. Or reduce the cost to 125
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thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭thankyourat wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »I think it should cost 70 ultimate just like incap. This will give all stamina users the option of having a cheap single Target ult or a strong aoe ultimate. Even though I feel most people will still use dbos. In my opinion it's the best ultimate in the game
I disagree. Class ultimates should always be superior to their Weapon counterparts
At 70 ultimate you could argue that incap is still the better ultimate. At 100 ultimate it's no reason to use this over dbos. I wouldn't even use incap if it was 100 ultimate. If I'm going to pay 100 or more for a ultimate it's going to be aoe
This attitude just shows how easy NB have it...
I'm not understanding your point here. why would I want to pay more than 100 ultimate for a single Target ultimate when for just slightly more ultimate cost I could use an aoe ultimate. I don't understand how this translates into nightblades have it easy. If incap was more expensive that would be the benefit over using incap over dbos for Stam and soul tether for mag. Both of those abilities have damage comparable to incap while being aoe and undodgeable. The same can be said about the 2hand ultimate If I have to pay 100 or more ultimate I would never use this ability over dbos because dbos is aoe
Same question to you. What if DB cost 150?
If dbos was 150 ult I still wouldn't use the 2hand ultimate over dbosthankyourat wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »I think it should cost 70 ultimate just like incap. This will give all stamina users the option of having a cheap single Target ult or a strong aoe ultimate. Even though I feel most people will still use dbos. In my opinion it's the best ultimate in the game
I disagree. Class ultimates should always be superior to their Weapon counterparts
At 70 ultimate you could argue that incap is still the better ultimate. At 100 ultimate it's no reason to use this over dbos. I wouldn't even use incap if it was 100 ultimate. If I'm going to pay 100 or more for a ultimate it's going to be aoe
This attitude just shows how easy NB have it...
I'm not understanding your point here. why would I want to pay more than 100 ultimate for a single Target ultimate when for just slightly more ultimate cost I could use an aoe ultimate. I don't understand how this translates into nightblades have it easy. If incap was more expensive that would be the benefit over using incap over dbos for Stam and soul tether for mag. Both of those abilities have damage comparable to incap while being aoe and undodgeable. The same can be said about the 2hand ultimate If I have to pay 100 or more ultimate I would never use this ability over dbos because dbos is aoe
In a one on one situation, like ganking or dueling, whether the ult is AOE or single target doesn’t matter
But I do agree with you.. rather than making single target ultimates more expensive, I think it would be more balanced to offer cheap single target ultimates on par with incap to the other classes.
1v1 situations are kind of rare in cyrodiil though. But even if the 2hand ultimate was 70 or 85 ultimate I still don't think people would use it because it doesn't have a CC. It does give the option. This could see some use from dedicated duel builds though0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Onslaught needs 2 Changes. A cost reduction to ~100 ult and cleave damage that scales similarly to reverse slice
That would be too cheap for what it is now; never mind with added cleave. I’d love it but with smart use of that and immovable pots with bloodspawn; I’d have contestant CC immunity on my Stamplar. A Warden probably wouldn’t need a pot and the splash damage would now synergies with shalks.
I’d think adding splash damage at current cost would work since it hits with full damage if the DBOS DOT minus initial hit but ignores armor so it would be competitive with that. Or reduce the cost to 125
At the current cost even if you add aoe damage it won’t ever compete with DBoS because it lacks a stun, the aoe CC on DB is almost as valuable as the burst it offers since it delivers big damage and extends your burst window in a single cast.0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Onslaught needs 2 Changes. A cost reduction to ~100 ult and cleave damage that scales similarly to reverse slice
That would be too cheap for what it is now; never mind with added cleave. I’d love it but with smart use of that and immovable pots with bloodspawn; I’d have contestant CC immunity on my Stamplar. A Warden probably wouldn’t need a pot and the splash damage would now synergies with shalks.
I’d think adding splash damage at current cost would work since it hits with full damage if the DBOS DOT minus initial hit but ignores armor so it would be competitive with that. Or reduce the cost to 125
At the current cost even if you add aoe damage it won’t ever compete with DBoS because it lacks a stun, the aoe CC on DB is almost as valuable as the burst it offers since it delivers big damage and extends your burst window in a single cast.
I thought it was about the same but it’s not. I think if it cost just slightly less it could. It’s instant burst and you probably would want a stun before it anyway to ensure it’s not dodged.
We keep trying to think about ultimates in terms of them somehow being equivalent to DBOS and incap as the standard to shoot for but maybe they are overturned after all. Im not sure I’d agree entirely with that because I think ultimates should feel powerful and rewarding to use, but I really wouldn’t want to see stun proof enemies either
At any rate; I think this just points out what a mess the state of ultimate balance is right now. It’s what we get for having a development cycle that prides itself on quarterly content updates. There’s just no time set aside to really get a deep look at QOL and balance.1 -
ChefZero✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »I think it should cost 70 ultimate just like incap. This will give all stamina users the option of having a cheap single Target ult or a strong aoe ultimate. Even though I feel most people will still use dbos. In my opinion it's the best ultimate in the game
I disagree. Class ultimates should always be superior to their Weapon counterparts
At 70 ultimate you could argue that incap is still the better ultimate. At 100 ultimate it's no reason to use this over dbos. I wouldn't even use incap if it was 100 ultimate. If I'm going to pay 100 or more for a ultimate it's going to be aoe
This attitude just shows how easy NB have it...
I'm not understanding your point here. why would I want to pay more than 100 ultimate for a single Target ultimate when for just slightly more ultimate cost I could use an aoe ultimate. I don't understand how this translates into nightblades have it easy. If incap was more expensive that would be the benefit over using incap over dbos for Stam and soul tether for mag. Both of those abilities have damage comparable to incap while being aoe and undodgeable. The same can be said about the 2hand ultimate If I have to pay 100 or more ultimate I would never use this ability over dbos because dbos is aoe
Same question to you. What if DB cost 150?
3 of the other 4 stam classes will qq to the point this change wont be made, so this change is moot. Plus I would still use dbos as the cost difference between it and incap would still favor dbos. In fact, soul tether would be attractive at that point too as it is 360° and heals you
Don't know, there is already enough rage against DB. Also Incap. And IMO the best adjustments to Ultimates are changes to the costs without touching the uniqueness of the skill. And if the problem tends more to burst of skills the reason could more about the burst-ability of stamina spec's or specific class passives.
I think DB and Soul Tether are balanced in what the provide so it's another point for increasing the cost of DB to 150.PC EU - DC only0