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Ancient Knowledge
NyassaV
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With the introduction of imbue weapon + the destruction of strife I feel like the condition of the Ancient Knowledge, in which you need to have a destro skill slotted to gain the passive's effects, need too be removed. It is the only weapon skill line in the game that requires you to have an ability slotted to gain passive effects and frankly it's VERY annoying for classes who wish to use more class skills than weapon skills.
This was mentioned in the PTS forums and (as with a lot of feedback regarding combat) was not really touched upon.
This was mentioned in the PTS forums and (as with a lot of feedback regarding combat) was not really touched upon.
Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand Overlord
She/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info
4
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Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Dual wield Magicka murderblades want to switch to staff and get the 3% damage bonus without slotting a Destro skill. Lol..
I sort of sympathize with this, my DW Sorc bar setup is impossible with force pulse slotted.0 -
dodgehopper_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭With the introduction of imbue weapon + the destruction of strife I feel like the condition of the Ancient Knowledge, in which you need to have a destro skill slotted to gain the passive's effects, need too be removed. It is the only weapon skill line in the game that requires you to have an ability slotted to gain passive effects and frankly it's VERY annoying for classes who wish to use more class skills than weapon skills.
This was mentioned in the PTS forums and (as with a lot of feedback regarding combat) was not really touched upon.
Many class passives have this requirement.
US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
<And plenty more>1 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »With the introduction of imbue weapon + the destruction of strife I feel like the condition of the Ancient Knowledge, in which you need to have a destro skill slotted to gain the passive's effects, need too be removed. It is the only weapon skill line in the game that requires you to have an ability slotted to gain passive effects and frankly it's VERY annoying for classes who wish to use more class skills than weapon skills.
This was mentioned in the PTS forums and (as with a lot of feedback regarding combat) was not really touched upon.
Many class passives have this requirement.
Ancient Knowledge is not a class passive. It is a weapon passive.Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info2 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »With the introduction of imbue weapon + the destruction of strife I feel like the condition of the Ancient Knowledge, in which you need to have a destro skill slotted to gain the passive's effects, need too be removed. It is the only weapon skill line in the game that requires you to have an ability slotted to gain passive effects and frankly it's VERY annoying for classes who wish to use more class skills than weapon skills.
This was mentioned in the PTS forums and (as with a lot of feedback regarding combat) was not really touched upon.
Many class passives have this requirement.
Ancient Knowledge is not a class passive. It is a weapon passive.
Which is irrelevant to the balancing scale this game operates under.0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »
Oh I’m well aware of the crusade to buff mag/magblade and nerf stamina that OP is on. But OP has literally made this thread a short time ago nearly word for word. We definitely need a limit of posts per month for each user. So you really think about what you want to say, myself included. I’d say three posts a month max. Then maybe over time certain users gain the right to post more often.Edited by Vapirko on May 22, 2018 5:38AM1 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »
Oh I’m well aware of the crusade to buff mag/magblade and nerf stamina that OP is on. But OP has literally made this thread a short time ago nearly word for word.
Was in PTS forums. Basically moving it
If you bothered to fully read things you'll find most my threads are about Magicka being able to CC break and not be snared to hell and back. Saying stam is over preforming doesn't always mean nerf it.Edited by NyassaV on May 22, 2018 5:42AMFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »
No, it's a major part of the class's identity and is honest to god my favorite "RP skill"
Not to mention the change screws tanks over tooFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »With the introduction of imbue weapon + the destruction of strife I feel like the condition of the Ancient Knowledge, in which you need to have a destro skill slotted to gain the passive's effects, need too be removed. It is the only weapon skill line in the game that requires you to have an ability slotted to gain passive effects and frankly it's VERY annoying for classes who wish to use more class skills than weapon skills.
This was mentioned in the PTS forums and (as with a lot of feedback regarding combat) was not really touched upon.
Many class passives have this requirement.
Ancient Knowledge is not a class passive. It is a weapon passive.
And why this makes a difference ? This argument have no sense it's just state obvious thing everyone can see that ancient knowledge belong to destro staff skill line but why You think that changes anything ?0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »With the introduction of imbue weapon + the destruction of strife I feel like the condition of the Ancient Knowledge, in which you need to have a destro skill slotted to gain the passive's effects, need too be removed. It is the only weapon skill line in the game that requires you to have an ability slotted to gain passive effects and frankly it's VERY annoying for classes who wish to use more class skills than weapon skills.
This was mentioned in the PTS forums and (as with a lot of feedback regarding combat) was not really touched upon.
Many class passives have this requirement.
Ancient Knowledge is not a class passive. It is a weapon passive.
And why this makes a difference ? This argument have no sense it's just state obvious thing everyone can see that ancient knowledge belong to destro staff skill line but why You think that changes anything ?
This is THE difference! Ancient Knowledge shouldn't require a skill to be slotted just like ever other weapon lineFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info1 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »
Oh I’m well aware of the crusade to buff mag/magblade and nerf stamina that OP is on. But OP has literally made this thread a short time ago nearly word for word.
Was in PTS forums. Basically moving it
If you bothered to fully read things you'll find most my threads are about Magicka being able to CC break and not be snared to hell and back. Saying stam is over preforming doesn't always mean nerf it.
I did. I’ve read all of your posts. I understand what you’re saying about the snare removal. Believe me I have a mag sorc and magblade and have had a magplar. I’m fully in support of some sort of short snare immunity on mag builds given the prevalence of snares. However I think stamina is something that needs to be managed and built for if you want more. I do not feel like mag toons need more easy access to it or some alternative. Anyway why not just make one thread that gives reasons why mag needs snare removal and outlines some plausible and balanced ways to do that? How does making a poll titled “is stam OP” serve that cause? That just gets a bunch of new players complaining loudly and ZOS does seem to listen to the loudest threads and does over nerf. So if you have a specific issue then great, we’re all ears. But don’t make blanket posts that lead to pointless discussion that veers off in a million directions and start a myriad of arguments.Edited by Vapirko on May 22, 2018 5:56AM2 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »With the introduction of imbue weapon + the destruction of strife I feel like the condition of the Ancient Knowledge, in which you need to have a destro skill slotted to gain the passive's effects, need too be removed. It is the only weapon skill line in the game that requires you to have an ability slotted to gain passive effects and frankly it's VERY annoying for classes who wish to use more class skills than weapon skills.
This was mentioned in the PTS forums and (as with a lot of feedback regarding combat) was not really touched upon.
Many class passives have this requirement.
Ancient Knowledge is not a class passive. It is a weapon passive.
And why this makes a difference ? This argument have no sense it's just state obvious thing everyone can see that ancient knowledge belong to destro staff skill line but why You think that changes anything ?
This is THE difference! Ancient Knowledge shouldn't require a skill to be slotted just like ever other weapon line
When You compare destruction staves to other weapons You forgot one thing. Destruction staves are the only weapons that based on the weapon type alters their skills behaviours. This can be different from other weapons but suddenly Ancient Knowledge passive shouldnt ? Also Tri Focus passive already have requirement You're talking about so I dont see the reason why this rule should be duplicated. Learn to adapt and sacrifice something on Your bars instead of having everything You want.Edited by Juhasow on May 22, 2018 1:02PM3 -
Jsmalls✭✭✭✭✭
✭For all the people saying get over it, or throw an extra skill on your bar...
It's about consistency.
Every weapon skill line offers the damage bonus by just using the weapons. The destruction staff skill line is the only one that differs in that sense.
So either implement a required skill in all weapon lines for their passives or remove it from the destruction staff skill line. That includes sword and board, dual wield, everything.
And let's not pretend we don't have to pick and choose for our abilities already. Otherwise we'd all run toggles on our bar for more stats.1 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Consistency... Better gameplay.
I’ve heard it all now.
This is about Magicka murderblades wanting to add empowered fire staff light attacks to their gank rotation without losing a slot to force pulse or the Destro Ulti.
PS: I’m totally cool with it. Let’s just be honest here.Edited by Minalan on May 22, 2018 2:07PM0 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Consistency? Like some in society who expect people to act/react/think exactly like they do, they want everyone IDENTICAL to everyone else, and when they're not something is wrong with them... not the person who expects everything identical? People are not identical, just like this game, no class or weapon skill is identical and shouldn't be expected to 'be like everything else'. There are differences and ZOS intentionally programmed the game with differences so that different people could play different ways- while sharing some similarities- there will always be differences... just like society.CP: 2078 ** ESO+ 2025 Content Pass ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025~~0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The passive is fine as it is.
Also @NyassaV is very incorrect that it is the only weapon skill line in the game that requires a skill to be slotted in order to get the passive.
DW Slaughter - only affects DW skills. Not only requires a DW skill but only benefits those skills.
Bow Hawk Eye - Only affects bow skills. Same ^^^^
The destro passive merely requires a skill be slotted which is a much sweeter design. it is much nicer having this passive affect class skills and others by merely having a weapon skill slotted.
Edited by idk on May 22, 2018 3:35PM0 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The passive is fine as it is.
Also @NyassaV is very incorrect that it is the only weapon skill line in the game that requires a skill to be slotted in order to get the passive.
DW Slaughter - only affects DW skills. Not only requires a DW skill but only benefits those skills.
Bow Hawk Eye - Only affects bow skills. Same ^^^^
The destro passive merely requires a skill be slotted which is a much sweeter design. it is much nicer having this passive affect class skills and others by merely having a weapon skill slotted.
There is a difference, however, between weapon passives that only affect those weapons skills - and weapon passives that affect all skills.. eg .
Twin blade and blunt with swords doesn't limit its bonus to only DW abilities..
Heavy Weapons with sword doesn't limit it's bonus to only 2-handed abilities.
Ancient Knowledge doesn't limit its bonus to staff abilities.
Yet one of those needs a skill equipped from that line, the other's don't.
The point is - where you want to use that generic buff to non-weapon abilities (like DW sorcs and NB's have done for years with twin blade and blunt) - you need to waste a slot to do with staff.
Doesn't seem unreasonable now to ask for it to work in a similar way to heavy weapons and twin blade and blunt - especially since DW for mag builds is now no longer a competitive(with staff) build choice. I mean, Zos have been trying to force all mag builds to go destro for damage for a lot of patches now. They may as well finish the job.Edited by Biro123 on May 22, 2018 4:08PMMinalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.1 -
Jsmalls✭✭✭✭✭
✭Consistency... Better gameplay. I’ve heard it all now.
This is about Magicka murderblades wanting to add empowered fire staff light attacks to their gank rotation without losing a slot to force pulse or the Destro Ulti.
PS: I’m totally cool with it. Let’s just be honest here.
@Minalan
I'm sure we all have our own selfish reasons, mine in particular is that I strongly dislike every destruction staff ability (for PvP), including the ultimate. But I like weaving light attack between abilities. By choice I would have my bar setup like curse, inner light, frag, endless, rune cage, and varying ultis. I really like the idea of using undo on my front bar for minor protection, overload for utility, dawnbreaker for burst, etc.
But I'm missing 8% damage from not slotting something I don't intend on using. Equal to a 2 piece slime craw worth of damage. I could trade inner light for an ability but I'd be trading 2-3% damage and 10% crit for 8% damage. Not really an option for me since I depend on surge heals.
That and Imbue weapons sounds very interesting.
Overall I'd rather lose the 8% than slot an ability. Which is what it'll come down to when summerset hits console.
But for DW,2 hander, Bow, S&B all to recieve damage/block bonuses for just using them, then destruction staff be limited in a unique way seems inconsistent.
PvE magicka is over performing and I can understand.
PvP has been Stamina's playground for awhile, and magicka doesn't deserve the limitation.
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The passive is fine as it is.
Also @NyassaV is very incorrect that it is the only weapon skill line in the game that requires a skill to be slotted in order to get the passive.
DW Slaughter - only affects DW skills. Not only requires a DW skill but only benefits those skills.
Bow Hawk Eye - Only affects bow skills. Same ^^^^
The destro passive merely requires a skill be slotted which is a much sweeter design. it is much nicer having this passive affect class skills and others by merely having a weapon skill slotted.
There is a difference, however, between weapon passives that only affect those weapons skills - and weapon passives that affect all skills.. eg .
Twin blade and blunt with swords doesn't limit its bonus to only DW abilities..
Heavy Weapons with sword doesn't limit it's bonus to only 2-handed abilities.
Ancient Knowledge doesn't limit its bonus to staff abilities.
Yet one of those needs a skill equipped from that line, the other's don't.
The point is - where you want to use that generic buff to non-weapon abilities (like DW sorcs and NB's have done for years with twin blade and blunt) - you need to waste a slot to do with staff.
Doesn't seem unreasonable now to ask for it to work in a similar way to heavy weapons and twin blade and blunt - especially since DW for mag builds is now no longer a competitive(with staff) build choice. I mean, Zos have been trying to force all mag builds to go destro for damage for a lot of patches now. They may as well finish the job.
My comment is still very much correct in that the OP stated false information. You have merely worked at spitting hairs which has no bearing on the premise of my statement.
It really does seem few have an issue with this passive considering the very light traffic this thread has seen with few here supporting OP to begin with.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Consistency... Better gameplay. I’ve heard it all now.
This is about Magicka murderblades wanting to add empowered fire staff light attacks to their gank rotation without losing a slot to force pulse or the Destro Ulti.
PS: I’m totally cool with it. Let’s just be honest here.
@Minalan
But for DW,2 hander, Bow, S&B all to receive damage/block bonuses for just using them, then destruction staff be limited in a unique way seems inconsistent.
@Jsmalls your statement I quoted here is very much incorrect.
Not even getting into the block bonus from S&B not being relent to the discussion since we are not talking about tanking.
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NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The passive is fine as it is.
Also @NyassaV is very incorrect that it is the only weapon skill line in the game that requires a skill to be slotted in order to get the passive.
DW Slaughter - only affects DW skills. Not only requires a DW skill but only benefits those skills.
Bow Hawk Eye - Only affects bow skills. Same ^^^^
The destro passive merely requires a skill be slotted which is a much sweeter design. it is much nicer having this passive affect class skills and others by merely having a weapon skill slotted.
There is a difference, however, between weapon passives that only affect those weapons skills - and weapon passives that affect all skills.. eg .
Twin blade and blunt with swords doesn't limit its bonus to only DW abilities..
Heavy Weapons with sword doesn't limit it's bonus to only 2-handed abilities.
Ancient Knowledge doesn't limit its bonus to staff abilities.
Yet one of those needs a skill equipped from that line, the other's don't.
The point is - where you want to use that generic buff to non-weapon abilities (like DW sorcs and NB's have done for years with twin blade and blunt) - you need to waste a slot to do with staff.
Doesn't seem unreasonable now to ask for it to work in a similar way to heavy weapons and twin blade and blunt - especially since DW for mag builds is now no longer a competitive(with staff) build choice. I mean, Zos have been trying to force all mag builds to go destro for damage for a lot of patches now. They may as well finish the job.
My comment is still very much correct in that the OP stated false information. You have merely worked at spitting hairs which has no bearing on the premise of my statement.
It really does seem few have an issue with this passive considering the very light traffic this thread has seen with few here supporting OP to begin with.
... lol... No
There is a difference in what certain things effect vs needing something slotted to gain the passive. For instance: The Slaughter passive applies to light attacks therefore you don't need a skill slotted. Hawkeye also affects light attacks
Ancient Knowledge is comparable to "Twin Blade and Blunt" which also does not require a DW skill to be slotted to gain the effectEdited by NyassaV on May 22, 2018 5:04PMFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Consistency... Better gameplay. I’ve heard it all now.
This is about Magicka murderblades wanting to add empowered fire staff light attacks to their gank rotation without losing a slot to force pulse or the Destro Ulti.
PS: I’m totally cool with it. Let’s just be honest here.
But... I don't gank with heavy attacks, with destro ult slotted, or force pulse
If I am trying to make a quick kill I happily use Flame touch for the body travel time in which my target can't do anything.Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Consistency? Like some in society who expect people to act/react/think exactly like they do, they want everyone IDENTICAL to everyone else, and when they're not something is wrong with them... not the person who expects everything identical? People are not identical, just like this game, no class or weapon skill is identical and shouldn't be expected to 'be like everything else'. There are differences and ZOS intentionally programmed the game with differences so that different people could play different ways- while sharing some similarities- there will always be differences... just like society.
You want to call it a QoL change then?Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
Jsmalls✭✭✭✭✭
✭
@idk
Care to elaborate?
DW recieves 5% bonus to all damage, 2-hander receives 5%~ or so to all damage (for greatsword), bow recieves weapon crit for equipping. We'll ignore s&b even though it relates to the consistency of weapon skill lines giving bonuses without requiring ability slots.
Destruction staff does not recieve bonus damage/stats without an ability slotted.
If I'm wrong feel free to explain why, but I've looked into this extensively and believe my recollection is correct.
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The passive is fine as it is.
Also @NyassaV is very incorrect that it is the only weapon skill line in the game that requires a skill to be slotted in order to get the passive.
DW Slaughter - only affects DW skills. Not only requires a DW skill but only benefits those skills.
Bow Hawk Eye - Only affects bow skills. Same ^^^^
The destro passive merely requires a skill be slotted which is a much sweeter design. it is much nicer having this passive affect class skills and others by merely having a weapon skill slotted.
There is a difference, however, between weapon passives that only affect those weapons skills - and weapon passives that affect all skills.. eg .
Twin blade and blunt with swords doesn't limit its bonus to only DW abilities..
Heavy Weapons with sword doesn't limit it's bonus to only 2-handed abilities.
Ancient Knowledge doesn't limit its bonus to staff abilities.
Yet one of those needs a skill equipped from that line, the other's don't.
The point is - where you want to use that generic buff to non-weapon abilities (like DW sorcs and NB's have done for years with twin blade and blunt) - you need to waste a slot to do with staff.
Doesn't seem unreasonable now to ask for it to work in a similar way to heavy weapons and twin blade and blunt - especially since DW for mag builds is now no longer a competitive(with staff) build choice. I mean, Zos have been trying to force all mag builds to go destro for damage for a lot of patches now. They may as well finish the job.
My comment is still very much correct in that the OP stated false information. You have merely worked at spitting hairs which has no bearing on the premise of my statement.
It really does seem few have an issue with this passive considering the very light traffic this thread has seen with few here supporting OP to begin with.
... lol... No
There is a difference in what certain things effect vs needing something slotted to gain the passive. For instance: The Slaughter passive applies to light attacks therefore you don't need a skill slotted. Hawkeye also affects light attacks
Ancient Knowledge is comparable to "Twin Blade and Blunt" which also does not require a DW skill to be slotted to gain the effect
Not really. The passive is very different with each staff compared to each DW weapon type.
It is only with one dstaff type does the passive seem similar.
So lol, you just destroyed your own argument since the passives are unique and considering others have pointed out this passive's requirements are in line with how some class passives are that demonstrates there is nothing irregular with it's design.
Again, seems that there is extremely light interest from those that do not like the passives to begin with.0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@idk
Care to elaborate?
DW recieves 5% bonus to all damage, 2-hander receives 5%~ or so to all damage (for greatsword), bow recieves weapon crit for equipping. We'll ignore s&b even though it relates to the consistency of weapon skill lines giving bonuses without requiring ability slots.
Destruction staff does not recieve bonus damage/stats without an ability slotted.
If I'm wrong feel free to explain why, but I've looked into this extensively and believe my recollection is correct.
Pretty much spot on. Destro staff does augment your heavy attacks for only having it equippedFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0
