The State of AvAvA in PC NA (Vivec primarily)

Ixtyr · May 2018

zyk wrote: »

Ixtyr wrote: »

I wonder how long it'll take people to realize that one group of 16 people occupying 40+ enemy players' attention elsewhere on the map *is* helpful to score, since it let's the rest of the Alliance take *** with less pressure. If I could clone my guild three times over to be able to do all the work for everyone, I'd do it, but it's not our fault, nor Dracarys or Invictus's fault, when their other guilds or PUGs are either incapable of or choose not to accomplish anything.

It depends. Like, if EP is pressuring AD and an AD guild goes to and holds Arrius, sure.

But if that AD guild holds Bleaker's instead, they're not doing AD any favors if they're successful. The result is that EP and DC are effectively cut off from each other and go south. The same is true when an EP guild holds Nikel, or less commonly, when a DC guild holds Sej.

I'm not calling anyone out -- I have no idea who is where these days and when I did run in groups, my AD groups frequently took Bleaker's, so...

Many times after a successful Bleaker's run, we'd look at the map after we demoralized the enemy to see AD had lost half its keeps. Which, to some, was an otick opportunity thanks to brilliant not-using-your-entire-ass game design.

Regardless of the rest of the state of the map, if one group of people is holding 2-3x their numbers of enemies at any remote location, that is a small group of friendly players keeping a much larger group of enemy players out of other fights with your allies. That means other groups, even ungrouped faction pug herds, have a much easier (relatively speaking) job of taking other objectives on the map. It doesn't matter if Invictus is holding half of AD at Faregyl, or if Omni is holding two raids of each faction at Bleakers - when that happens, the rest of EP (or AD, in Omni's case) can fight for other objectives that will have fewer enemy reinforcements. Even if EP is equally messing around with DC and AD, if my group can pull even just a dozen extra people away from Alessia, that should be enough to help make it easier for my faction to recapture/defend that keep.

Now, does that always happen? No, of course not. Half the time, Omni goes to Chalman to pull EP north off of AD keeps, and then the rest of AD decides to go hit DC's side of the map. Or Dracarys goes to farm Faregyl to force AD to back off, but EP still chooses to stack the Bleakers gate against DC. This happens because not all groups are on the same page, many guild/group leaders don't want to be told who/where they have to go fight by someone else, and/or there just aren't enough organized groups of people who know what they're doing available to recognize and capitalize on the situation.

---

Regarding the specific Bleakers/Sejanus/Nikel scenario: while sometimes those farms do dry up - since all fights either end with 1) us eventually getting overrun or 2) everyone else getting demoralized, giving up and going elsewhere - my point still stands. If we do get overrun, it's going to be by no less than an absolutely asinine number of people, in which case we've accomplished the task of holding a ton of people out of other fights with our faction at other objectives. And if we manage to hold out for so long that all of the hordes of people we were fighting give up entirely, we've still accomplished that same goal for some window of time (it usually takes anywhere from 20-60+ minutes before people completely give up like that). That's a big window of time for the rest of our Alliance to push elsewhere. Am I saying the groups farming places in enemy territory are the sole reason why people have success? Of course not, but it is a valuable piece of the puzzle, and I really don't understand the salt anyone (not you specifically, you're not particularly salty here) directs at groups who engage in such tactics. I don't see anyone on the forums throwing hissy fits over 4-man gank squads camping gates or pathways between keep sieges, preventing enemy reinforcement from arriving - if Omni goes up North, or Dracarys goes deep South, or Invictus goes to fight DC in the West, how is that any different, aside from the fact it's happening on a larger scale?

Ixtyr · May 2018

usmcjdking wrote: »

All of these fall under the single umbrella of wanting to have fun, people just put different metrics on what fun actually is.

So what you end up with is a massive discrepancy in effectiveness between these means to an ends and everyone is upset at the other for whom is otherwise not providing them the experience that they desire and in some cases, feel owed.

Also, this. 100%.

patents · May 2018

On PC/NA

AD can’t win, accept it, it requires too much effort for AD to win and those players have better things to do you know?

Just have fun at the bridge fight

Or farm AP defending our rss, EP loves to raid our rss but seldom touch DC cos we are easy AP

I still don’t like DC, a lot of cheaters there, I have seen them exploit Low pop bonus, use alt to screw up other faction attempt to retrieve back their scroll.

Disgusting faction I say

zyk · May 2018

Ixtyr wrote: »

Regardless of the rest of the state of the map, if one group of people is holding 2-3x their numbers of enemies at any remote location, that is a small group of friendly players keeping a much larger group of enemy players out of other fights with your allies.

I disagree completely.

First of all, a group can play wherever and however they want. They're not beholden to their faction. So I'm not suggesting what anyone *should* be doing.

Your argument might be valid if there were only two factions and all players were created equal.

When a group is holding 2-3x their numbers anywhere, those opponents are not collectively equal to the group in effectiveness. Most organized groups recognize this. Most of opponents held at a typical AP farm are not usually going to be of great benefit to their faction anyway.

When an AD group takes Bleaker's when Chalman is held by EP and Aleswell is held by DC, the enemy opponents they occupy were no threat to AD -- obviously, because the EP there intended to fight DC and vice versa. When that AD group is successful and the opposition numbers begin to dwindle, EP and DC do not have quick access to fight each other, so the path of least resistance for each side becomes an AD objective. That is not beneficial to AD as a whole.

Again, a group can do what they want. If they want to run a tower farm or hold Bleaker's, wonderful. But they shouldn't delude themselves into thinking that whatever they do successfully is helping their faction.

A group that helps its faction is responsive to the needs of the faction. For example, when a strong opposition group holds Fare, that's a major impediment to AD that makes all keeps above it extremely vulnerable. It is of great benefit when an equally strong AD group arrives promptly to help take back Fare quickly. If that group is instead bouncing between Chalman mine and Aleswell Farm, they are practically useless to AD.

oxygen_thief · May 2018

Minno wrote: »

Ok but most of the suggestions people want for cyro are already in BGs:
- no lag (or less lag)
- unique objectives worth fighting over
- interesting locations to fight in
- fights that generate PvP fun instead of attacking empty objectives
- rewards
- scoring/ladder system

Granted some of these are terrible anyway (ladder started is a joke, rewards will be rolled out in Summerset, etc). And some objectives let players ignore fighting.

i am a new pvp player. ive tried BG recently and i can say that i wont return there because i have no team to play with, rewards that i got are worthless and bg modes are boring. therefore i dont have aspiration to find myself a team and try again.

Anazasi · May 2018

zyk wrote: »

Ixtyr wrote: »

Regardless of the rest of the state of the map, if one group of people is holding 2-3x their numbers of enemies at any remote location, that is a small group of friendly players keeping a much larger group of enemy players out of other fights with your allies.

I disagree completely.

First of all, a group can play wherever and however they want. They're not beholden to their faction. So I'm not suggesting what anyone *should* be doing.

Your argument might be valid if there were only two factions and all players were created equal.

When a group is holding 2-3x their numbers anywhere, those opponents are not collectively equal to the group in effectiveness. Most organized groups recognize this. Most of opponents held at a typical AP farm are not usually going to be of great benefit to their faction anyway.

When an AD group takes Bleaker's when Chalman is held by EP and Aleswell is held by DC, the enemy opponents they occupy were no threat to AD -- obviously, because the EP there intended to fight DC and vice versa. When that AD group is successful and the opposition numbers begin to dwindle, EP and DC do not have quick access to fight each other, so the path of least resistance for each side becomes an AD objective. That is not beneficial to AD as a whole.

Again, a group can do what they want. If they want to run a tower farm or hold Bleaker's, wonderful. But they shouldn't delude themselves into thinking that whatever they do successfully is helping their faction.

A group that helps its faction is responsive to the needs of the faction. For example, when a strong opposition group holds Fare, that's a major impediment to AD that makes all keeps above it extremely vulnerable. It is of great benefit when an equally strong AD group arrives promptly to help take back Fare quickly. If that group is instead bouncing between Chalman mine and Aleswell Farm, they are practically useless to AD.

Interesting. What happens when the strong group in your example is overwhelmed by coordinated numbers, repeatedly? In my experience, I have seen those strong groups merge with there faction and blob around the map responding to the zerg with "the zerg". It becomes very hard for organized groups that rank among the top guilds to play any other way. There are multiple play styles in this game and multiple ways to play this game. The question, In my mind, is always which one is it tonight.

pcar944 · May 2018

@Ixtyr that's what a lot of people don't get about groups like Dracarys and others, and you try to put it in their thick head that they just riled up 30 people to go kill 12 when those 30 could have split into 2-3 mans and taken a bunch of resources (that are worth as many points as 1 keep) instead of wasting 30mnts to 1 hour to kill 12

Anrose · May 2018

pcar944 wrote: »

that's what a lot of people don't get about groups like Dracarys and others, and you try to put it in their thick head that they just riled up 30 people to go kill 12 when those 30 could have split into 2-3 mans and taken a bunch of resources (that are worth as many points as 1 keep) instead of wasting 30mnts to 1 hour to kill 12

Yeah, but going and flipping resources for the score is boooorrrriinngg. I’ll take the fight against the other group 11/10 times.

Joy_Division · May 2018

zyk wrote: »

Ixtyr wrote: »

Regardless of the rest of the state of the map, if one group of people is holding 2-3x their numbers of enemies at any remote location, that is a small group of friendly players keeping a much larger group of enemy players out of other fights with your allies.

I disagree completely.

First of all, a group can play wherever and however they want. They're not beholden to their faction. So I'm not suggesting what anyone *should* be doing.

Your argument might be valid if there were only two factions and all players were created equal.

When a group is holding 2-3x their numbers anywhere, those opponents are not collectively equal to the group in effectiveness. Most organized groups recognize this. Most of opponents held at a typical AP farm are not usually going to be of great benefit to their faction anyway.

When an AD group takes Bleaker's when Chalman is held by EP and Aleswell is held by DC, the enemy opponents they occupy were no threat to AD -- obviously, because the EP there intended to fight DC and vice versa. When that AD group is successful and the opposition numbers begin to dwindle, EP and DC do not have quick access to fight each other, so the path of least resistance for each side becomes an AD objective. That is not beneficial to AD as a whole.

Again, a group can do what they want. If they want to run a tower farm or hold Bleaker's, wonderful. But they shouldn't delude themselves into thinking that whatever they do successfully is helping their faction.

A group that helps its faction is responsive to the needs of the faction. For example, when a strong opposition group holds Fare, that's a major impediment to AD that makes all keeps above it extremely vulnerable. It is of great benefit when an equally strong AD group arrives promptly to help take back Fare quickly. If that group is instead bouncing between Chalman mine and Aleswell Farm, they are practically useless to AD.

If a group can play however they want and you're not suggesting what they should be doing, then why are you keep arguing this?

That being said, everything you write here you treat as absolutes when that is not the case.

Since you brought up the example of AD at Bleakers, as someone who runs in an AD guild shed some light on what happens when we go there:

It is *not* true that most of the opponents at a typical AP farm are not useful to their faction. We get BoD, Iron Legion, Vok, etc., pretty much all the time because those guilds come for the same reason we do: it's going to be a hell of a tick for whoever winds up capping Bleakers (likely EP or DC since we're cut off) and it's going to be a guaranteed good fight. As for the reverse, I've rooted out enough potential tower farms at BRK mine mine to know who sticks around and there are plenty of good players there, the same who prompt so many AD players to whine on these forums that they are getting doubled teamed, there is a purple alliance, the town placement is unfair, etc.

When AD does hold Chalman or Bleakers, the enemies they do occupy most certainly can constitute a threat to AD. See above paragraph. Instead of farming AD at Fare or Alessia or what not they are banging their heads trying to get a tick at Bleakers. Also players go to where the fights they think are best. Just because they head north to fight yellow at Chal do *not* mean they would have headed north to fight Blue at Chal. That's just crazy to think players think only in terms of cardinal directions. I *hate* attacking Blue Chalman when DC guild stacks there. A blue chalman is much more likely to send me southward than a Yellow Chalman.

At a basic level, just because what some player or some group does not do something in the immediate vicinity that is smack you on the face obvious, does not mean they are not helping the faction. When some annoying and craven ganker (who perhaps has zero intention of helping the faction) is successful at inciting me to chase her away from an important area, they are aiding the faction.

And just because Fare is occupied, it is not always the best play to have a strong group drop what it is that they are doing to go and immediately retake it. When VE played blue, there were dozens and dozens of times when our leaders (err, make that STEVE), told us to go swim with the slaughterfish because Glade or Aleswell was under attack or occupied by what was thought to be strong enemy opposition. After going out of the way to die, then playing horse simulator to get all the way to the keep, what did we find? DC had already taken care of the situation! There are over 100 other players on the map. It is not *always* necessary to respond to what may be the most important strategic need. In fact, it would be bad if everyone just dropped what they were doing because it's faction stacking and leaves the rest of the map wide open. It is desirable that a faction should have a strong presence elsewhere so it very well maybe that the group by Bleakers is doing the faction a service because the reds they are otherwise holding up are not taking Alessia or advancing to Bloodmayne.

You are assuming the worst case-scenario for AD when a yellow groups farms bleakers and thus not helping the faction, while disregarding the best-case scenario, in which the yellow farm group is a faction boon.

Anazasi · May 2018

Everyone speaks from "their point of view" or from their perspective. To assume because the way they relay the information that it's spoken from an "absolute" position is not really a fair assertion. I would think that perhaps writing in a "prose" format is often, at least, on public forums the most common format contributors take. While I may agree that this form of writing does not often take in account for the reader or allow for other possibilities; it by no means detracts from what the writer has to contribute to the topic. This statement does not diminish what others have to say either, as they explore the topic further. After All, this is suppose to be about open discussion not actually picking 1 solution over the other based on public opinion to solve the issue.

VaranisArano · May 2018

Its all very simple.

I'm in the right place at the right time focusing on the right objective for my faction 100% of the time, and everyone else in my faction should realize that and capitalize off of what I'm doing on the map.

When they don't, they are idiots and/or AP farmers and/or just there for the fights who dont care about the faction and are the reason we're losing.

That's how this works, right?

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · May 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Its all very simple.

I'm in the right place at the right time focusing on the right objective for my faction 100% of the time, and everyone else in my faction should realize that and capitalize off of what I'm doing on the map.

When they don't, they are idiots and/or AP farmers and/or just there for the fights who dont care about the faction and are the reason we're losing.

That's how this works, right?

you forgot Spies too!

Ixtyr · May 2018

I was going to respond, but @Joy_Division summed up my thoughts pretty well, so instead, here's a GIF of a chicken eating chicken nuggets.

tenor.gif?itemid=5566579

ezeepeezee · May 2018

I'm just going to leave my two cents here and then probably ignore this thread because a) very few of the responses are addressing PC NA Vivec specifically and b) they aren't addressing the current state, but rather discussing overall strategy which seems to be to be irrelevant to the actual state of PC NA. Despite the possibly negative tone conveyed in that statement, I assure you that I only mean to state plainly what I see and not to insult anybody.

From the perspective of somebody who either plays solo, zerg surfs, or plays with a small group of friends when they're around: These ball groups are an absolute cancer on the server. Don't get me wrong - I understand that playing the way they play is fun for them. But it's very un-fun for everybody else who isn't them. And really, that's fine too. But the thing is, people aren't incentivized to go into Cyrodiil.

So what I see is, a small handful of repeat customers who enjoy playing AvA. And then I see hordes of names I've never seen before and never see again, especially after a night of these practically invulnerable ball groups running. I can, on my stam sorc, hit a group of up to 6 (maybe more) uncoordinated people hard enough to scatter them, maybe kill some. When I do the same thing to these groups, their health bars literally do not move. Between the constant springs, rapids, earthgore and whatever else, not to mention the lascivious amounts of snares, roots and stuns they are spitting out, these groups are using tactics that enure that anybody who is not playing nearly exactly the same way has little to no chance against them. And when these groups do find each other, it's just a whole bunch of balled-up pew pew, and it seems that whoever gets their destro ults charged up first wins.

So my opinion on the state of the server is that when one or more of these groups log on, most everyone who knows better logs off. And that's really not good for the health of this game. I will also add that you can actually feel when you are in the vicinity of these groups - when you get near them, your skills literally stop responding because I guess the server can't handle the insane button mashing of springs spam or whatever.

adirondack · May 2018

Anrose wrote: »

Yeah, but going and flipping resources for the score is boooorrrriinngg. I’ll take the fight against the other group 11/10 times.

See the problem with AD is not leadership or flipppng or player skill. It’s Common Core dragging down AD.

I want a return to new math and whole numbers. Fraction Loyalty shall be my banner!

Dyride · May 2018

ezeepeezee wrote: »

So what I see is, a small handful of repeat customers who enjoy playing AvA. And then I see hordes of names I've never seen before and never see again....

PVP in many games has a steep learning curve and I find ESO no different, due to many obscure mechanics. You have to be somewhat masochistic to put in the hours dying to everything under the sun to understand what works and what doesn't.

That is generally where the players and community could improve. Respecting opponents whether or not they were good, being willing to give suggestions for improvement, and being transparent about how certain things work.

As the game goes on, there is more complexity in how to compose good pvp builds for your playstyle. This holds true for solo, small man or group play. Summerset is going to increase complexity even more with jewelry traits and transmuting.

Sadly, more people will probably throw accusations of hacking than understand the opponent was running 2x Swift or some other combination to gain an advantage.

Drac has been pretty transparent how they build their groups and I salute them for that.

ezeepeezee · May 2018

Dyride wrote: »

ezeepeezee wrote: »

Sadly, more people will probably throw accusations of hacking than understand the opponent was running 2x Swift or some other combination to gain an advantage.

Drac has been pretty transparent how they build their groups and I salute them for that.

I didn't accuse anyone of hacking, nor did I question what builds they are running. I just think that the fact that groups like that are composed of nothing but magic builds with tons of shields, healing and ultimates makes the game really crappy.

Thanks for the strawman, though.

I don't know why this comment won't stop showing up as if it's a quote. Nice coding.

Dyride · May 2018

ezeepeezee wrote: »

Dyride wrote: »

Sadly, more people will probably throw accusations of hacking than understand the opponent was running 2x Swift or some other combination to gain an advantage.

I didn't accuse anyone of hacking, nor did I question what builds they are running. I just think that the fact that groups like that are composed of nothing but magic builds with tons of shields, healing and ultimates makes the game really crappy.

Thanks for the strawman, though.

I don't know why this comment won't stop showing up as if it's a quote. Nice coding.

My comment was intended as a general suggestion directed at the whole thread.

New blood is good for pvp veterans to beat up on but there has to be a continuing process of knowledge transfer from old to new players and new players need to feel like they can get better at pvp so that they keep coming back.

I cherry-picked that quote from your statement not to create a strawman but because you mentioned seeing lots of new names that don't come back.

Vilestride · May 2018

ezeepeezee wrote: »

Dyride wrote: »

ezeepeezee wrote: »

Sadly, more people will probably throw accusations of hacking than understand the opponent was running 2x Swift or some other combination to gain an advantage.

Drac has been pretty transparent how they build their groups and I salute them for that.

I didn't accuse anyone of hacking, nor did I question what builds they are running. I just think that the fact that groups like that are composed of nothing but magic builds with tons of shields, healing and ultimates makes the game really crappy.

Thanks for the strawman, though.

I don't know why this comment won't stop showing up as if it's a quote. Nice coding.

There are roles, both DPS and support for stam builds within large group play. Granted you are right in that they are fewer than magicka.

But in my opinion there is no problem. This is the strength of magicka. Build archetypes need strengths and weaknesses to be balanced. The strength in this case is excelling in AOE and high number encounters. The weakness is the inability to fight outside that environment.

I could argue your same point in regards to the prevalence of stam builds in solo and smallscale. But I don't because I don't expect my magicka template to be able to perform as well in a 1v1 or at ganking as a stamina nightblade. To expect that is rediculous. To me, play as you want doesn't mean all classes and builds are equal at all roles. Its simple means that if you want to be this or that there is a class and build option you can select.

Of course if you are running around solo trying to pop dawnbreaker or whatever on large organized groups you are going to have little to no sucess. Because to be blunt you are using the wrong tools for the wrong job. The fight is likely not an appropriate situation for your build to be in as is the opposite I would not bring my trans / gossamer set up to a 1v1 against you.

You can't bring a rally car to formula 1 and expect results and vice versa.

ezeepeezee · May 2018

Vilestride wrote: »

ezeepeezee wrote: »

Dyride wrote: »

ezeepeezee wrote: »

Sadly, more people will probably throw accusations of hacking than understand the opponent was running 2x Swift or some other combination to gain an advantage.

Drac has been pretty transparent how they build their groups and I salute them for that.

I didn't accuse anyone of hacking, nor did I question what builds they are running. I just think that the fact that groups like that are composed of nothing but magic builds with tons of shields, healing and ultimates makes the game really crappy.

Thanks for the strawman, though.

I don't know why this comment won't stop showing up as if it's a quote. Nice coding.

There are roles, both DPS and support for stam builds within large group play. Granted you are right in that they are fewer than magicka.

But in my opinion there is no problem. This is the strength of magicka. Build archetypes need strengths and weaknesses to be balanced. The strength in this case is excelling in AOE and high number encounters. The weakness is the inability to fight outside that environment.

I could argue your same point in regards to the prevalence of stam builds in solo and smallscale. But I don't because I don't expect my magicka template to be able to perform as well in a 1v1 or at ganking as a stamina nightblade. To expect that is rediculous. To me, play as you want doesn't mean all classes and builds are equal at all roles. Its simple means that if you want to be this or that there is a class and build option you can select.

Of course if you are running around solo trying to pop dawnbreaker or whatever on large organized groups you are going to have little to no sucess. Because to be blunt you are using the wrong tools for the wrong job. The fight is likely not an appropriate situation for your build to be in as is the opposite I would not bring my trans / gossamer set up to a 1v1 against you.

You can't bring a rally car to formula 1 and expect results and vice versa.

I 100% agree with you on every point you made here. In the end, the problem to me seems to be that there is nothing to do on the map except zerg down the keeps, at which magicka excels and stam is left with the table scraps.

Edit: I know the term "zerg" has a negative connotation but I mean it in the most ambivalent way I can. The actual concept of magicka excelling with numbers and stamina excelling individually actually makes sense thematically. I just wish it could be applied fairly to the map

Vilestride · May 2018

Quoting on my phone is broken so I am just going to continue without. But @ezeepeezee in regards to what you have just said I 100% agree that there in lies the real issue with imbalance. There needs to be better objective design that better distinguishes between the roles of large groups or solo players or small groups ect. This is the biggest problem with the collision of the play styles. It is obvious that cyrodil was designed with this in mind but it has far been lost and has remained undeveloped as the game went on.

So you are absolutely right when you say that a massive zerg fight at X keep is the only fight on the map. But I just don't think it's fair to blame that on the zerg or large groups there when that is the gameplay intended for them. The accountability is on zos to better define their objecyive roles so as to create dynamic options for groups of different sizes.

I've said it 1000 times now but one of the most backward changes made was equalizing all the objective values. While I agree that a resource for example is no place a solo player should have to be defending against a group of 24 its like, well what did they expect when they make this kind of objective of equal value as a keep.

ezeepeezee · May 2018

Vilestride wrote: »

Quoting on my phone is broken so I am just going to continue without. But @ezeepeezee in regards to what you have just said I 100% agree that there in lies the real issue with imbalance. There needs to be better objective design that better distinguishes between the roles of large groups or solo players or small groups ect. This is the biggest problem with the collision of the play styles. It is obvious that cyrodil was designed with this in mind but it has far been lost and has remained undeveloped as the game went on.

So you are absolutely right when you say that a massive zerg fight at X keep is the only fight on the map. But I just don't think it's fair to blame that on the zerg or large groups there when that is the gameplay intended for them. The accountability is on zos to better define their objecyive roles so as to create dynamic options for groups of different sizes.

I've said it 1000 times now but one of the most backward changes made was equalizing all the objective values. While I agree that a resource for example is no place a solo player should have to be defending against a group of 24 its like, well what did they expect when they make this kind of objective of equal value as a keep.

@Vilestride Absolutely. The thing that really gets my goat is that the obviously understand that objectives need to be incentivized (see: gear box vendors at towns), but they do such a bad job of it.

Sometimes I have to step outside of my frustration and just lament that this game could be so much more than it is if they would spend just one season on improving Cyrodiil itself, instead of endlessly re-tooling ability functions and values. The problem isn't and hasn't been with individual player characters for a long time.

SwampRaider · May 2018

Hi folks!

hardcore DC PvPer here. I have bled blue since launch and have been in many organized PvP guilds

DC is in a sad state. We have 5 organized guilds( 2 of which only follow the bombing/Stamden meta) to top that off, all of those players are newish to organized pvp and can't hold their own against dracarys or omni UNLESS we have perfect composition and no one screws up ANY movement(no room for error)

We have IA(IN?) in the mornings helping us out, but they make weird tactical decisions that hurt us prime time players(putting scrolls in the wrong keeps. etc) for once I would like to see AD scrolls in Dragonclaw and warden(longer treks for AD)

During prime time, we have BoD,IL, GoD and sometimes SG. most of those guilds don't follow the current pvp meta for zerg busting or counterplay against omni or Dracarys.

My current guild, GoD is trying its best to emulate Dracarys and VE/omni. we have a few former VE in the group(with our own little spin) but its hard when most of the players are new to ball group tactics. we have days of great success and days of utter failure.(Our attendence has been horrible, but when its great with our core group we succeed.)

The DC pug zerg needs pushing and baiting to get it to hit the right places. sometimes I find myself solo sieging an important keep to reroute the zerg to my location.

DC is just lazy, we used to be something. It is a daily struggle. We wouldn't be in second place if we didnt have an oceanic crew( we would be dead last). DC is borderline almost dead with competitive guilds. No one likes to lead, and those that try usually get knocked down by LOUD zone chat trolls and LOUD armchair generals. most of DC would rather complain about ball groups like dracarys rather than build their own to counter them

Tl;DR: DC is lazy

Agrippa_Invisus · May 2018

SwampRaider wrote: »

Hi folks!

hardcore DC PvPer here. I have bled blue since launch and have been in many organized PvP guilds

DC is in a sad state. We have 5 organized guilds( 2 of which only follow the bombing/Stamden meta) to top that off, all of those players are newish to organized pvp and can't hold their own against dracarys or omni UNLESS we have perfect composition and no one screws up ANY movement(no room for error)

We have IA(IN?) in the mornings helping us out, but they make weird tactical decisions that hurt us prime time players(putting scrolls in the wrong keeps. etc) for once I would like to see AD scrolls in Dragonclaw and warden(longer treks for AD)

During prime time, we have BoD,IL, GoD and sometimes SG. most of those guilds don't follow the current pvp meta for zerg busting or counterplay against omni or Dracarys.

My current guild, GoD is trying its best to emulate Dracarys and VE/omni. we have a few former VE in the group(with our own little spin) but its hard when most of the players are new to ball group tactics. we have days of great success and days of utter failure.(Our attendence has been horrible, but when its great with our core group we succeed.)

The DC pug zerg needs pushing and baiting to get it to hit the right places. sometimes I find myself solo sieging an important keep to reroute the zerg to my location.

DC is just lazy, we used to be something. It is a daily struggle. We wouldn't be in second place if we didnt have an oceanic crew( we would be dead last). DC is borderline almost dead with competitive guilds. No one likes to lead, and those that try usually get knocked down by LOUD zone chat trolls and LOUD armchair generals. most of DC would rather complain about ball groups like dracarys rather than build their own to counter them

Tl;DR: DC is lazy

Good luck to you and your guild. I mean it.

There's been a lot of back and forth about how guilds have been helping out AD lately with little said about DC.

It doesn't help that a) DC won several campaigns in a row in recent memory, and b) there's the lingering reputation of that same style of player you mentioned as well -- the ones who drown out any signal with noise. It's always kind of had that reputation. I'm not saying whether it's true or not anymore, but it definitely affects how players are distributed atm.

The game isn't in a healthy enough state to expect a continual flow of decent quality players through the PVP community right now. Trying to grow a quality guild from the ground up is a major task right now. Trying to do it in DC is even harder.

I wish I knew a way to wash away the past resentments, but that's going to take time. Time the pvp community of ESO doesn't really have anymore due to its shrinking nature.

Anrose · May 2018

SwampRaider wrote: »

Hi folks!

hardcore DC PvPer here. I have bled blue since launch and have been in many organized PvP guilds

DC is in a sad state. We have 5 organized guilds( 2 of which only follow the bombing/Stamden meta) to top that off, all of those players are newish to organized pvp and can't hold their own against dracarys or omni UNLESS we have perfect composition and no one screws up ANY movement(no room for error)

We have IA(IN?) in the mornings helping us out, but they make weird tactical decisions that hurt us prime time players(putting scrolls in the wrong keeps. etc) for once I would like to see AD scrolls in Dragonclaw and warden(longer treks for AD)

During prime time, we have BoD,IL, GoD and sometimes SG. most of those guilds don't follow the current pvp meta for zerg busting or counterplay against omni or Dracarys.

My current guild, GoD is trying its best to emulate Dracarys and VE/omni. we have a few former VE in the group(with our own little spin) but its hard when most of the players are new to ball group tactics. we have days of great success and days of utter failure.(Our attendence has been horrible, but when its great with our core group we succeed.)

The DC pug zerg needs pushing and baiting to get it to hit the right places. sometimes I find myself solo sieging an important keep to reroute the zerg to my location.

DC is just lazy, we used to be something. It is a daily struggle. We wouldn't be in second place if we didnt have an oceanic crew( we would be dead last). DC is borderline almost dead with competitive guilds. No one likes to lead, and those that try usually get knocked down by LOUD zone chat trolls and LOUD armchair generals. most of DC would rather complain about ball groups like dracarys rather than build their own to counter them

Tl;DR: DC is lazy

This is great news. We would love to have some more competition from the blue side. We have some good fights with IL right now, but having another contender would make it fun to push the west side of the map.

I think IA is hurting more than they’re helping at this point. Lots of players hold contempt for DC because of that monster zerg screwing up the map on their factions’ off hours which hurts DC during prime time.

DC could use some positive faction leaders. I wish you the best!

Joy_Division · May 2018

SwampRaider wrote: »

Hi folks!

hardcore DC PvPer here. I have bled blue since launch and have been in many organized PvP guilds

DC is in a sad state. We have 5 organized guilds( 2 of which only follow the bombing/Stamden meta) to top that off, all of those players are newish to organized pvp and can't hold their own against dracarys or omni UNLESS we have perfect composition and no one screws up ANY movement(no room for error)

We have IA(IN?) in the mornings helping us out, but they make weird tactical decisions that hurt us prime time players(putting scrolls in the wrong keeps. etc) for once I would like to see AD scrolls in Dragonclaw and warden(longer treks for AD)

During prime time, we have BoD,IL, GoD and sometimes SG. most of those guilds don't follow the current pvp meta for zerg busting or counterplay against omni or Dracarys.

My current guild, GoD is trying its best to emulate Dracarys and VE/omni. we have a few former VE in the group(with our own little spin) but its hard when most of the players are new to ball group tactics. we have days of great success and days of utter failure.(Our attendence has been horrible, but when its great with our core group we succeed.)

The DC pug zerg needs pushing and baiting to get it to hit the right places. sometimes I find myself solo sieging an important keep to reroute the zerg to my location.

DC is just lazy, we used to be something. It is a daily struggle. We wouldn't be in second place if we didnt have an oceanic crew( we would be dead last). DC is borderline almost dead with competitive guilds. No one likes to lead, and those that try usually get knocked down by LOUD zone chat trolls and LOUD armchair generals. most of DC would rather complain about ball groups like dracarys rather than build their own to counter them

Tl;DR: DC is lazy

What EP does more than DC (and AD)

Numerous players with 5 stars are leveled headed, consistent, and thoughtful in trying to rally the PUGs to do what ought to be done. Not only does their level-headedness set them apart, but they also have charisma, don't wear tin-foil hats (i.e. blaming conspiracies), and a knack for conveying urgency without getting hysterical. With the conspicuous exception of one particular player, much of the commentary in zone chat is either entertaining to read or relevant to situation at large. DC needs more Soozs and so does AD.

There is an understanding about who is going to take, defend, keep an eye on Drake. It's an annoying out of the way objective, but it's worth points and very inconvenient when AD has this. The EP who take care of the keep know who they are and they are very good and consistent at it.

Not all EP guilds announce what they are doing (drac for instance does not), but the ones who pick up from Zone generally do and it's helpful in motivating players who aren't sure where to go toward something that may be useful. OMG spais though!!! Get better spies because thyy aren't preventing EP from winning.(I will say SG is good at letting his intentions be known, though his call outs could come earlier).

The average EP player and even PUG often does the right thing without having to be told. Whether it's repairing walls the moment they become eligible, keeping breeches tagged, putting down the correct type of siege, replacing forward camps, it's almost like they have taken a course in how to play ESO. I'm not sure why this is, though I think having a lot of high rank players offer advice rather than toxicity in zone chat is a big part of it. Also, for whatever reason, EP just has a lot of high ranked players that aren't even in organized groups. They're all over the place.

The only potato thing that EP does that makes them look bad is Alessia front door. The place must be cursed or hexed because every single good habit EP has vanish when they catch sight of that forsaken place.

It's hard to define, but I think EP has a culture that is conducive to successful AvAvA play

casparian · May 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

SwampRaider wrote: »

Hi folks!

hardcore DC PvPer here. I have bled blue since launch and have been in many organized PvP guilds

DC is in a sad state. We have 5 organized guilds( 2 of which only follow the bombing/Stamden meta) to top that off, all of those players are newish to organized pvp and can't hold their own against dracarys or omni UNLESS we have perfect composition and no one screws up ANY movement(no room for error)

We have IA(IN?) in the mornings helping us out, but they make weird tactical decisions that hurt us prime time players(putting scrolls in the wrong keeps. etc) for once I would like to see AD scrolls in Dragonclaw and warden(longer treks for AD)

During prime time, we have BoD,IL, GoD and sometimes SG. most of those guilds don't follow the current pvp meta for zerg busting or counterplay against omni or Dracarys.

My current guild, GoD is trying its best to emulate Dracarys and VE/omni. we have a few former VE in the group(with our own little spin) but its hard when most of the players are new to ball group tactics. we have days of great success and days of utter failure.(Our attendence has been horrible, but when its great with our core group we succeed.)

The DC pug zerg needs pushing and baiting to get it to hit the right places. sometimes I find myself solo sieging an important keep to reroute the zerg to my location.

DC is just lazy, we used to be something. It is a daily struggle. We wouldn't be in second place if we didnt have an oceanic crew( we would be dead last). DC is borderline almost dead with competitive guilds. No one likes to lead, and those that try usually get knocked down by LOUD zone chat trolls and LOUD armchair generals. most of DC would rather complain about ball groups like dracarys rather than build their own to counter them

Tl;DR: DC is lazy

having a lot of high rank players offer advice rather than toxicity in zone chat

As someone who has only ever played DC, I can't even imagine what this would be like.

Agrippa_Invisus · May 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

SwampRaider wrote: »

Hi folks!

hardcore DC PvPer here. I have bled blue since launch and have been in many organized PvP guilds

DC is in a sad state. We have 5 organized guilds( 2 of which only follow the bombing/Stamden meta) to top that off, all of those players are newish to organized pvp and can't hold their own against dracarys or omni UNLESS we have perfect composition and no one screws up ANY movement(no room for error)

We have IA(IN?) in the mornings helping us out, but they make weird tactical decisions that hurt us prime time players(putting scrolls in the wrong keeps. etc) for once I would like to see AD scrolls in Dragonclaw and warden(longer treks for AD)

During prime time, we have BoD,IL, GoD and sometimes SG. most of those guilds don't follow the current pvp meta for zerg busting or counterplay against omni or Dracarys.

My current guild, GoD is trying its best to emulate Dracarys and VE/omni. we have a few former VE in the group(with our own little spin) but its hard when most of the players are new to ball group tactics. we have days of great success and days of utter failure.(Our attendence has been horrible, but when its great with our core group we succeed.)

The DC pug zerg needs pushing and baiting to get it to hit the right places. sometimes I find myself solo sieging an important keep to reroute the zerg to my location.

DC is just lazy, we used to be something. It is a daily struggle. We wouldn't be in second place if we didnt have an oceanic crew( we would be dead last). DC is borderline almost dead with competitive guilds. No one likes to lead, and those that try usually get knocked down by LOUD zone chat trolls and LOUD armchair generals. most of DC would rather complain about ball groups like dracarys rather than build their own to counter them

Tl;DR: DC is lazy

With the conspicuous exception of one particular player, much of the commentary in zone chat is either entertaining to read or relevant to situation at large.

I'm trying to be better.

I've even said please a few times.

Kartalin · May 2018

@Joy_Division So Kush is constantly announcing in zone “Heading to Bloodmayne resources again.” ?

SwampRaider · May 2018

Due to the laziness of DC I predict that the current PVP changes in cyrodiil are only going to hurt us more. I doubt I will be proved wrong.

It will be up to us organize guilds to take resources well our keeps are being Sieged. When we should be focusing on eliminating the enemy.

The issue is that DC doesn't have a spark. There really isn't any new innovation or drive on that faction. us old players who recognized that DC needs to transform itself are tasked with trying to "jerry rig" an old chest freezer and turn it into a eco-friendly chest fridge that runs on less electricity.

Another issue, is that I see more people;more new people importantly, going to The ebonheart Pact. And less players going to the Daggerfall Covenant. I don't know why, but it must have to do with any race any Alliance being the crown store...ir something else.

When we should be refining our tactics and movement as a faction, we end up doing drills and training and gearing new PVPers. With little turn on investment due to attendance.

The other issue is AP. Most DC don't care about the map, only going to where the zerg gets the most AP.

So the <Sooz Scouting Network> is in overdrive going from keep to keep to scout.

THE most annoying issue: 50 DC pugs slamming their bodies against an Omni or Dracarys AP farming at a keep. When they should ignore them and do more important things.