Many progression guilds advertise they need DPS "> 35K". Good bye sorcs?

MakeMeUhSamich · March 2018

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

MakeMeUhSamich wrote: »

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

MakeMeUhSamich wrote: »

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

Console player here. Hitting average of 38-40k on 3mil dummy with non pet sorc. Raid dummy testing 50k-ish. This is after the last patch. It is absolutely doable just takes research and practice.
I am running 23 spell erosion and apprentice mundus so no cheese here.

Nice! Mind sharing your build?

5 mechanical acuity 2 llambris 3 moondancer
Frontbar - perfect asylum inferno infused w/ flame enchant
backbar - vma lightning infused w/ spell dmg enchant

Front bar - liquid lightning, force pulse, endless fury, inner light, aegis, meteor
Backbar - blockade, haunting curse, ele drain (or shield in raid), inner light, aegis, ele storm
Rotation is: destro ult, curse, la, ll, la, blockade, la, fp x2, backbar ha, la fp x2, la, ll, la, blockade, la fp x2, backbar ha, la fp x1, la, curse, la, ll, la, blockade, la fp x2, backbar heavy, la fp x2, la, ll, la, blockade, la fp x2, backbar ha, la fp x 1, la curse, la, ll, la, blockade repeat

Thank you! And your blue CP, please?

56 elfborn 23 erosion 56 ele expert 44 master 61 thaum

Thank you, again. I appreciate your willingness to share!

Saint314Louis1985 · March 2018

Runefang wrote: »

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

MakeMeUhSamich wrote: »

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

MakeMeUhSamich wrote: »

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

Console player here. Hitting average of 38-40k on 3mil dummy with non pet sorc. Raid dummy testing 50k-ish. This is after the last patch. It is absolutely doable just takes research and practice.
I am running 23 spell erosion and apprentice mundus so no cheese here.

Nice! Mind sharing your build?

5 mechanical acuity 2 llambris 3 moondancer
Frontbar - perfect asylum inferno infused w/ flame enchant
backbar - vma lightning infused w/ spell dmg enchant

Front bar - liquid lightning, force pulse, endless fury, inner light, aegis, meteor
Backbar - blockade, haunting curse, ele drain (or shield in raid), inner light, aegis, ele storm
Rotation is: destro ult, curse, la, ll, la, blockade, la, fp x2, backbar ha, la fp x2, la, ll, la, blockade, la fp x2, backbar ha, la fp x1, la, curse, la, ll, la, blockade, la fp x2, backbar heavy, la fp x2, la, ll, la, blockade, la fp x2, backbar ha, la fp x 1, la curse, la, ll, la, blockade repeat

Thank you! And your blue CP, please?

56 elfborn 23 erosion 56 ele expert 44 master 61 thaum

@Saint314Louis1985 and blue food? Or citrus fillet?

I just run blue food

SoLooney · March 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

SoLooney wrote: »

good, mag sorcs needed to be shelved after how rampant they were in 2017.

nightblades actually take skill to play while mag sorcs can put a few dots down and aimlessly heavy attack

they arent dead, groups will want 1 for off balance and some cleave, but they just cant compare to magblades in terms of single target

getting 35k plus on a mag sorc btw isnt hard

That has to be why there are frequent threads about people who don't reach 25k (much less 35k), including one on first page here right today.

Define "hard". If only a minority can do a thing, it could be because of 100 things. In example, you could have a car able to only go at 140 km/h. It's not hard to go 150 km/h, but with that car it's not so immediate.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

It's some days I am looking for a decent (not necessarily top) trials progression guild.
Most of those that are above mediocre, demand DPS > 35K.

Maybe they aren't aware that before Dragon Bones, you'd have basically Youtubers (using cheese parse builds) and end game fully geared, skilled players being able to achieve that.
It was perhaps 1% of the DPS playerbase, considering an abysmally tiny amount of people run veteran+ trials anyway.

Since several months, mag sorcs have received a number of nerfs, and since Dragon Bones, mag sorcs have lost again from 2 to 5k DPS due to off-balance changes.

Basically now Youtubers barely break 36-37k - and they are still using cheese builds nobody can use in trials. What about the others? Whereas I know a LOT of nightblades in my guilds who boast their 44k+ self buffed DPS, I don'tknow A SINGLE sorc spamming anything. The average do 25k even on veteran, the good ones do 30k, the top ones 35k => an handful of them.

Coming to this forum, all you see are NBs showing their 40k DPS peformance asking how to increase it, others who post a video of their 44k+.
And plenty of "I can't get to 25k DPS" sorc threads, with people giving advice about how to scratch 30k. In the last weeks I have found all of 1 (one) guy showing a video of himself doing > 35k DPS.

So, my question is: after Dragon Bones, if you want to join a good progression guild you basically have to shelve your mag sorc and join as "stam something" or a magblade?

Because there are more progression guilds than mag sorcs able to fulfill their minimum DPS requirement.

P.S. I expect this post to get either totally ignored (@ZOS_GinaBruno please prove me wrong) or flamed.

Before you flame, prove me you are real.
Post your Dragon Bones, non cheese, non Lover stone 40K DPS video on your sorc and then come school me.

What is it that you want?

To be invited to a high end-raiding guild even though you are not a high end player?

You're just making excuses for why other people are able to hit 35K on a target dummy and you can't. "Cheese builds"? And this nugget:

I didn't invent the term. It's the term usually used to describe click-bait youtubers who use all kind tricks and of shortcuts to show off bloated results.

Also, as I have repeatedly stated, it's not about "me", it's my whole class that is getting nerfed since a year, has lost class signature abilities and now it's gone way beyond a fair rebalance.

The cheap shot is actually implying Alcast "just" trained and studied to become who he is. No. He would not be in Hodor if he was just a regular trained and studied guy.

SoLooney wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

You know, not everybody is born an Alcast or Andy.

What kind of crap is that? Alcast, Andy, and nobody else was born with the ability to pull 35K on a target dummy. They get that by studying the game, practicing everyday, and perfecting their rotations. All you are doing is just denigrating the time and practice people have put into doing something you can't. It's a cheap shot.

It's not a cheap shot. It's just recognizing that some people are just born natural at some things.
Then, with training and practice they get even better. Like Usain Bolt, he trained and practiced like every other athlete but... he was born a natural talent. Normal people could train and practice all their life and never come close to him.

SoLooney wrote: »

Stop making excuses. Not a single character I play is the "BIS" cookie-cutter standard demanded by what you claim are elitist guilds. Even I can't pull min-max numbers, that doesn't mean I can't play well enough for other good players to appreciate that I can make a solid contribution to an end-game raid.

It's good you are taken for your social skills. However I'd like a game where one can be taken for that... or because he has the same hard ceiling the others have.

lol, u actually had all that time to see what i posted throughout all the times in the forums, good for you

i stated my opinion about mag sorc and it obviously rained on your parade

mag sorcs have a very easy learning curve, its what a lot of new players gravitate towards cause its friendly to beginners

put those ppl on a nightblade and suddenly the game gets harder.

some ppl cant parse high numbers, youre right on that one. everyone has a learning curve and some ppl fall short or higher than other ppls

and what does me being able to parse and raid have anything to do with my social skills?

just worry about yourself and ill worry about myself

dazee · March 2018

Psshh. nerf the top end of dps down to say, 25k and design content around that. More balance for everyone and less totally ridiculous disparity between the worst builds and BIS.

Destruent · March 2018

dazee wrote: »

Psshh. nerf the top end of dps down to say, 25k and design content around that. More balance for everyone and less totally ridiculous disparity between the worst builds and BIS.

Lol...how would you do this? Nerf the skills top-players use?

hint: those are the same everyone uses...

As long as people are able to parse like 40k and ~10k with exactly the same build you just can't balance it in the way you propose.
Only solution: better tutorial to solve l2p-issues of those 10k-dudes.

Tasear · March 2018

Just a thought someone did calculation once and you only need each person doing 15k dps to complete vMOL well at least first boss. We just tend to gravitate towards speed especially at end game. This pass summer it was 25k dps to end game ready but now...there's this.

Though I completely understand, some things just take forever and we only have a certain amount of time. Does this mean maybe it's time for a trial save option or group finder so people can start learning? Because many of these things don't actually "require" such things for completion. I worry though for others maybe next summer it will be 40k dps to play in end game trials? But yes maybe it's time to have a middle group for end game experience?

Izaki · March 2018

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

All I see is more NB nerfs coming. I remember when few people started running NB around the time vSO was scaled to 160 because they figured out it's dps was o okk and off heals were strong. I got a 50% nerf to my overall heal output (less targets no dubble crits) and a ~20% cost increase to funnel (later got another 40%). That fixed that right quick. NB has never been strong very long. Historically, sorcs have been strong the longest followed by DK's. Templars and NB's have had much more fleeting moments in the light.

For what it is worth, I hope the nerf comes to relentless focus. I hate the way that works anyway. The vast majority of the error in my rotation comes from that. It was so bad I just gave up on the whole meta rotation and back barred it for a loss of a couple k.

gethemshauna wrote: »

Result is simple - Morrowind destroyed the game. Seriously.

I totally agree with this. Combat in PVE has been crap since and so has balance. After spending 3 years skill by skill balancing resource cost, dungeon mechanics (that sometimes involve drains) and different classes, you can't just cut off ~30% of resources (more for classes like NB who also lost a strong resource skill) and have things work. The big nerf also gave CE use much more of an advantage than it had before as it used to not have an edge in PVE with regards to resources as everyone could sustain with good group support.

Oreyn had a good point on mechanics skill as well. DPS accepted for raids has, in my experience, always been variable based on a players skill with handling mechanics. At no time since CE became popular have I been on the higher half of all endgame raid DPS (yes I was before) and I was raiding competitively with a few PCNA #1 leaderboard showings until Morrowind. Many raid mechanics are such that, even with CE buffed health and resistances, guys who have cheated their way to good DPS parses but are also just not that good die. Mechanics still matter more than DPS most of the time and the DPS check on trials is not 35k (maybe on vAA HM, I don't remember the number there, just that it was high due to the tank / axe resource mess).

Lastly, I still think most these (actually all of these) 40k NB parses are CE. I don't see enough DOT downtime or weave error in my rotation to explain the differences in dps from the youtubers and my own. Even the visible stat numbers in their reports often do not look legit and I suspect those that are not visible (pen for one) are even further off.

I'll just sit and wait for the NB nerf. I'm sure it will arrive before ZOS does anything about CE. My bet is that they just cost increase funnel another 30% or so and kill the class altogether since then you won't really be able to use relentless much.

Mate thanks for the good laugh.

oZqm2Q2.png?1

5 Mechanical Acuity + 5 War Machine + 2 Stormfist + vMA Bow. NIrnhoned + Infused front bar, Nirnhoned back bar. Warrior Mundus. A total of 22 CP into Piercing (which means a grand total of 7.5k penetration).

Parses done with Raid gear and no penetration or CP cheese whatsoever. I even used Stormfist, which is what I often use in trials that require lots of blocking or just mechanics in general.

But go ahead call me a cheater. Or should I link you a 70k ST DPS Varlariel parse? Or a 60k ST Rakkhat HM parse? Will you call me a cheater then? There are a quite a few people that I know personally that also hit these numbers and you can even watch their stuff on YT. You can literally see them make mistakes.

Seriously dude, cut it out with the CE crap. Just because you haven't entirely grasped the Nightblade mechanics and didn't have enough crit luck doesn't mean that everyone who's pulling higher numbers than you is a CE user. Nightblade is a very hard class to master and if you don't spend enough time understanding it, you won't get the results you're looking for. So instead of accusing anyone who knows their stuff of cheating, maybe you should ask those people for help instead of thinking that you're already doing everything perfectly, because clearly, you're not.

Izaki · March 2018

clocksstoppe wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Azyle1 wrote: »

FYI, here is the video.

It's 40.7K DPS. Was my first try after I got home from work. So if you want another with higher DPS, then fine, but I figured that would suffice.

https://1drv.ms/f/s!AmBzZIGQDMPulXIg0Df6gz2BEKvm

NB parses are simply useless as they are all cheese

Unless they are using tfs, kraghs, and/or lover, how?

3M dummy. he is halfway through it and burned all his stamina already, because he gets it to execute range as fast as he can and then the execute deals 45k damage alone to cheese the dps meter.

This is why we have 6mil target dummies.

Furcula · March 2018

Sorcs are probably one of the easiest classes to get over 35k dps on a 6m dummy. This is a parse from last night with 33 points into spell erosion.

Praeficere · March 2018

If you're skilled enough to play the mechanics, there's no reason for you to not be skilled enough to deal high dps

exiars10 · May 2018

35k DPS is old news!

Now I see in zone chat "XYZ Awesome Guild" is recruiting, we offer bla bla bla, everybody is welcome ...except if you are DD as min of 37k+ DPS requirement.

Elite guild can't find members to they have to zone chat ad

? Hm...

Sparr0w · May 2018

Sorcs have a double shield & pets that can keep them alive through punishment. Also have surge should you need the extra healing.

I think being 5-10k behind top dps is an acceptable trade off for triple the survivability. Just my 2 cents.

EDIT: plus the rotation between the circular(ish) one of a sorc and the jumbled pile of crap a NB has to carry out also seperates the DPS

hakan · May 2018

i looked at old patches but dont remember a huge sorc nerf ( not denying it tho) that made people from " nerf sorc" to " buff sorc". can someone tell me?

nbs being fotm feels weird tho. all these years and for the first time my class is fotm

Vahrokh · May 2018

Sparr0w wrote: »

Sorcs have a double shield & pets that can keep them alive through punishment. Also have surge should you need the extra healing.

I think being 5-10k behind top dps is an acceptable trade off for triple the survivability. Just my 2 cents.

EDIT: plus the rotation between the circular(ish) one of a sorc and the jumbled pile of crap a NB has to carry out also seperates the DPS

The "circularish" sorc rotation achieves 27-28k. To get to 34k you have to make half the rotation dynamic. Dynamic = the name of the adaptive rotation kind that nightblades do.

To get to higher than 34k-ish as a mag sorc, you have to constantly, frantically triple check your magicka - despite chain chugging the most expensive tripots and go full dynamic rotation.

Even then, with dynamic rotation you hit a glass ceiling that is 5-7k DPS below mag-blades.

Danksta · May 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

Sparr0w wrote: »

Sorcs have a double shield & pets that can keep them alive through punishment. Also have surge should you need the extra healing.

I think being 5-10k behind top dps is an acceptable trade off for triple the survivability. Just my 2 cents.

EDIT: plus the rotation between the circular(ish) one of a sorc and the jumbled pile of crap a NB has to carry out also seperates the DPS

The "circularish" sorc rotation achieves 27-28k. To get to 34k you have to make half the rotation dynamic. Dynamic = the name of the adaptive rotation kind that nightblades do.

To get to higher than 34k-ish as a mag sorc, you have to constantly, frantically triple check your magicka - despite chain chugging the most expensive tripots and go full dynamic rotation.

Even then, with dynamic rotation you hit a glass ceiling that is 5-7k DPS below mag-blades.

You can hit 35k with a static rotation without cheesing it.

Vahrokh · May 2018

Danksta wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Sparr0w wrote: »

Sorcs have a double shield & pets that can keep them alive through punishment. Also have surge should you need the extra healing.

I think being 5-10k behind top dps is an acceptable trade off for triple the survivability. Just my 2 cents.

EDIT: plus the rotation between the circular(ish) one of a sorc and the jumbled pile of crap a NB has to carry out also seperates the DPS

The "circularish" sorc rotation achieves 27-28k. To get to 34k you have to make half the rotation dynamic. Dynamic = the name of the adaptive rotation kind that nightblades do.

To get to higher than 34k-ish as a mag sorc, you have to constantly, frantically triple check your magicka - despite chain chugging the most expensive tripots and go full dynamic rotation.

Even then, with dynamic rotation you hit a glass ceiling that is 5-7k DPS below mag-blades.

You can hit 35k with a static rotation without cheesing it.

Which one, exactly? The one I examined is double lightning staff based.

Asardes · May 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Sparr0w wrote: »

Sorcs have a double shield & pets that can keep them alive through punishment. Also have surge should you need the extra healing.

I think being 5-10k behind top dps is an acceptable trade off for triple the survivability. Just my 2 cents.

EDIT: plus the rotation between the circular(ish) one of a sorc and the jumbled pile of crap a NB has to carry out also seperates the DPS

The "circularish" sorc rotation achieves 27-28k. To get to 34k you have to make half the rotation dynamic. Dynamic = the name of the adaptive rotation kind that nightblades do.

To get to higher than 34k-ish as a mag sorc, you have to constantly, frantically triple check your magicka - despite chain chugging the most expensive tripots and go full dynamic rotation.

Even then, with dynamic rotation you hit a glass ceiling that is 5-7k DPS below mag-blades.

You can hit 35k with a static rotation without cheesing it.

Which one, exactly? The one I examined is double lightning staff based.

This is an example of pet sorc, but people have been hitting similar, or even higher numbers using non-pet build and perfected Asylum staff. Regardless 35K is perfectly achievable even without.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2tbylHs1QA

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/302925/infallible-infinite-wizard-magsorc-off-balance-heavy-attack-vma-trial-build-summerset

P.S. MA has been changed to only activate on direct damage, but Sorcerer rotation is mostly DoTs, especially for pet builds, so I would recommend other sets, for example a Necropotence+IA (front bar)+Ilambris setup for Sorcerer would work nicely since IA has a lot of spell critical bonuses which compensates for the lack thereof on Necropotence, boosts heavy attacks and also applies Minor Vulnerability.

BaneOfBattler · May 2018

Dummies are not accurate for measuring the real dps. Not to mention survivability or sustain.

Oh also love it when i see these guys running low health builds. Pretty good for vTrials.

Gnortranermara · May 2018

Yeah 35k is easily attainable with a simple circular rotation on mag sorc if you've got all the passives, skills leveled, 5/1/1, proper CP distribution, the right sets and traits and so on. There are several variants that work just fine; you just have to put the skills on the bar logically. I haven't quite hit 35k without the pet but I'm sure it can be done with a tweak or two. With the pet 35k is really easy. You must have some unidentified design flaw in your build if you're having trouble getting there.

Asardes · May 2018

BaneOfBattler wrote: »

Dummies are not accurate for measuring the real dps. Not to mention survivability or sustain.

Oh also love it when i see these guys running low health builds. Pretty good for vTrials.

For magicka classes HP is not such an issue, you can do just fine because you have big shields, 20K+ in case of pet sorcerer. Also sustain in trials is better than on dummy, since there you only have Elemental Drain that you apply yourself, whilst in trials you also have plenty of synergies, as well as some other buffs such as Worm's Raiment. Relevant dummy rotations, meaning those done on the 6M while staying at almost full resources throughout are good at measuring the ability of that player to maintain his buffs and DoTs, casting skills in time etc. which means that when faced with the stresses of a trial mechanic he can do those automatically, without thinking about them, and instead concentrating on the mechanics. If a player can't do good DPS on a dummy, with no stressing factors around him, his DPS will be very bad in a trial.

BaneOfBattler · May 2018

Asardes wrote: »

BaneOfBattler wrote: »

Dummies are not accurate for measuring the real dps. Not to mention survivability or sustain.

Oh also love it when i see these guys running low health builds. Pretty good for vTrials.

For magicka classes HP is not such an issue, you can do just fine because you have big shields, 20K+ in case of pet sorcerer. Also sustain in trials is better than on dummy, since there you only have Elemental Drain that you apply yourself, whilst in trials you also have plenty of synergies, as well as some other buffs such as Worm's Raiment. Relevant dummy rotations, meaning those done on the 6M while staying at almost full resources throughout are good at measuring the ability of that player to maintain his buffs and DoTs, casting skills in time etc. which means that when faced with the stresses of a trial mechanic he can do those automatically, without thinking about them, and instead concentrating on the mechanics. If a player can't do good DPS on a dummy, with no stressing factors around him, his DPS will be very bad in a trial.

No and no.

low HP party members are always an issue because they will have more chances to die than someone with lets say 18k, this puts more charge to the healer, in any trial tanks can make a mistake or 2 and sometimes a wipe can occur if healers have to heal extra for those that are below 15k; Healing is buffing, mending, aoes, purges, debuffing, shielding etc etc; if the tank make a mistake and healers are too busy healing weak dps then the fatality is likely to happen, for this reason i dont go with low hp as a dps. Vcontent isnt made for racing;besides of speed challenges; but to do it well done without deaths or frustration. I'd rather want a constant amount of dps than huge dps with pauses in any trial or content.

I don't care if the guy is very good at his dummy and doing his rotation automatically flawless, i want the guy to be usefull instead of having the healer stressed because he wants to race the content.

Getting kinda annoyed by these "xxk dps required" feels something like gearscoring in old mmo's which segregate other good players.

Not my issue i have good dps for vcontent, just saying.

Asardes · May 2018

Most things in newer trials and dungeons are one-shot anyway if you fail the mechanic, so it doesn't matter if you have 16K or 19K HP (if tank is using Ebon, and you have full undaunted mettle), you're still getting rekt. Personally I never use Whichmother's on magicka in trials, and I would certainly not use it on a pet sorcerer, where you have good sustain anyway, because of the heavy attacks, and you will get less DPS with that since the pets scale on maximum magicka; also in the new patch the DPS penalty for using that will be even more severe, since LA/HA now also scale on maximum resource.

Vahrokh · May 2018

Danksta wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Sparr0w wrote: »

Sorcs have a double shield & pets that can keep them alive through punishment. Also have surge should you need the extra healing.

I think being 5-10k behind top dps is an acceptable trade off for triple the survivability. Just my 2 cents.

EDIT: plus the rotation between the circular(ish) one of a sorc and the jumbled pile of crap a NB has to carry out also seperates the DPS

The "circularish" sorc rotation achieves 27-28k. To get to 34k you have to make half the rotation dynamic. Dynamic = the name of the adaptive rotation kind that nightblades do.

To get to higher than 34k-ish as a mag sorc, you have to constantly, frantically triple check your magicka - despite chain chugging the most expensive tripots and go full dynamic rotation.

Even then, with dynamic rotation you hit a glass ceiling that is 5-7k DPS below mag-blades.

You can hit 35k with a static rotation without cheesing it.

Which one, exactly? The one I examined is double lightning staff based.

Asardes wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Sparr0w wrote: »

Sorcs have a double shield & pets that can keep them alive through punishment. Also have surge should you need the extra healing.

I think being 5-10k behind top dps is an acceptable trade off for triple the survivability. Just my 2 cents.

EDIT: plus the rotation between the circular(ish) one of a sorc and the jumbled pile of crap a NB has to carry out also seperates the DPS

The "circularish" sorc rotation achieves 27-28k. To get to 34k you have to make half the rotation dynamic. Dynamic = the name of the adaptive rotation kind that nightblades do.

To get to higher than 34k-ish as a mag sorc, you have to constantly, frantically triple check your magicka - despite chain chugging the most expensive tripots and go full dynamic rotation.

Even then, with dynamic rotation you hit a glass ceiling that is 5-7k DPS below mag-blades.

You can hit 35k with a static rotation without cheesing it.

Which one, exactly? The one I examined is double lightning staff based.

This is an example of pet sorc, but people have been hitting similar, or even higher numbers using non-pet build and perfected Asylum staff. Regardless 35K is perfectly achievable even without.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2tbylHs1QA

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/302925/infallible-infinite-wizard-magsorc-off-balance-heavy-attack-vma-trial-build-summerset

P.S. MA has been changed to only activate on direct damage, but Sorcerer rotation is mostly DoTs, especially for pet builds, so I would recommend other sets, for example a Necropotence+IA (front bar)+Ilambris setup for Sorcerer would work nicely since IA has a lot of spell critical bonuses which compensates for the lack thereof on Necropotence, boosts heavy attacks and also applies Minor Vulnerability.

A guy is doing 38k, playing perfectly on the PTS, where every class parses much higher due to light attack buff, using one ability not available (yet), using a set that will be nerfed, on an ideal "training dummy" situation.

Yeah, that's totally solid. That's really what I can do in today's trial.

exiars10 · May 2018

^^^^^^^
And remember, 37k DPS is the new minimum.

Vahrokh · May 2018

exiars10 wrote: »

^^^^^^^
And remember, 37k DPS is the new minimum.

Of course, because LA weaving on PTS yields higher DPS, so we are going to see similar idiotic demands before being allowed into a normal AA run

ErMurazor · May 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

As I said in another thread just a moment ago if you're looking to be a serious end game progression player part of that is accepting your favourite class might spend time on the shelf during some patches.

You could also look for guilds which are not so focused on crazy and inflated numbers (or start your own), but if you're trying to be a true end game player who wants to push for things you need to accept sometimes some classes or builds are not up to par with what's best during that patch.

Now imagine how everyone who mains a Warden has felt since their release. I'm also not sure what you want ZOS (Gina) to do about this? It seems your issue is with how the community and a number of guilds handle things, unless you're asking for a Mag Sorc buff (in which case it's Wrobel you want to speak with).

Also I play a MagNB and get 20k DPS average, I lack the player skill for more.

I am not searching for an "Hodor quality" guild. I don't have the skill and - most of all - I can only play few hours a day tops.
Now, what you say is allright but you cannot just "shelve" a character and play another, unless you are unemployed or similar.
Gearing up an "incompatible" (gear wise) character, in example, a stamblade takes months, not days.

Heck, after 4 years I still miss 2 pieces of gear for my main, thanks to ESO's "RNG" loot system!

If you after 4 year still missing pieces ill advice you to change gear and do another parse. alot have changed in 4 years.

Joker99 · May 2018

BaneOfBattler wrote: »

Dummies are not accurate for measuring the real dps. Not to mention survivability or sustain.

Oh also love it when i see these guys running low health builds. Pretty good for vTrials.

At least at a higher level of play, dummies are not about the dps you get, but improving rotation, sure, with better rotation comes better dps but that’s not the main point. For most “endgame players” dummy dps is the *** and some of them go as far as cheesing parses as if a dummy parse gives you bragging rights, majority of which have no idea how to dps the twins or rakkat for example.
Regarding low health builds, serious players will run lower health builds if that gives them an advantage in regards of sustain or crit (for example 7 medium and no points in hp on a stamina, which puts you at 16k). The opposite is not always true though.

Vahrokh · May 2018

Joker99 wrote: »

BaneOfBattler wrote: »

Dummies are not accurate for measuring the real dps. Not to mention survivability or sustain.

Oh also love it when i see these guys running low health builds. Pretty good for vTrials.

At least at a higher level of play, dummies are not about the dps you get, but improving rotation, sure, with better rotation comes better dps but that’s not the main point. For most “endgame players” dummy dps is the *** and some of them go as far as cheesing parses as if a dummy parse gives you bragging rights, majority of which have no idea how to dps the twins or rakkat for example.
Regarding low health builds, serious players will run lower health builds if that gives them an advantage in regards of sustain or crit (for example 7 medium and no points in hp on a stamina, which puts you at 16k). The opposite is not always true though.

I agree on the first portion but not on the second.

Low health builds are crap. I run HM Craglorn Trials, vAS, vHOF and vMOL and - save for few bosses - having 17-18k yields the survivability required to be worth taking. A dead DPS does less DPS than a 18k health DPS.

Joker99 · May 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

Joker99 wrote: »

BaneOfBattler wrote: »

Dummies are not accurate for measuring the real dps. Not to mention survivability or sustain.

Oh also love it when i see these guys running low health builds. Pretty good for vTrials.

At least at a higher level of play, dummies are not about the dps you get, but improving rotation, sure, with better rotation comes better dps but that’s not the main point. For most “endgame players” dummy dps is the *** and some of them go as far as cheesing parses as if a dummy parse gives you bragging rights, majority of which have no idea how to dps the twins or rakkat for example.
Regarding low health builds, serious players will run lower health builds if that gives them an advantage in regards of sustain or crit (for example 7 medium and no points in hp on a stamina, which puts you at 16k). The opposite is not always true though.

I agree on the first portion but not on the second.

Low health builds are crap. I run HM Craglorn Trials, vAS, vHOF and vMOL and - save for few bosses - having 17-18k yields the survivability required to be worth taking. A dead DPS does less DPS than a 18k health DPS.

As I said, not everyone can play lower health builds, but serious players do.

SammyFable · May 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

Joker99 wrote: »

BaneOfBattler wrote: »

Dummies are not accurate for measuring the real dps. Not to mention survivability or sustain.

Oh also love it when i see these guys running low health builds. Pretty good for vTrials.

At least at a higher level of play, dummies are not about the dps you get, but improving rotation, sure, with better rotation comes better dps but that’s not the main point. For most “endgame players” dummy dps is the *** and some of them go as far as cheesing parses as if a dummy parse gives you bragging rights, majority of which have no idea how to dps the twins or rakkat for example.
Regarding low health builds, serious players will run lower health builds if that gives them an advantage in regards of sustain or crit (for example 7 medium and no points in hp on a stamina, which puts you at 16k). The opposite is not always true though.

I agree on the first portion but not on the second.

Low health builds are crap. I run HM Craglorn Trials, vAS, vHOF and vMOL and - save for few bosses - having 17-18k yields the survivability required to be worth taking. A dead DPS does less DPS than a 18k health DPS.

Not surviving with low health is just a lsp issue, see here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjvpCKzfjjE
It's doable, but I wouldn't recommend it.