ZOS can we have an ETA for class balance?

MinarasLaure · May 2018

You don't like to talk about it, we get that.
But there are people who'd love to talk about it, and that's because you asked us for our opinions.
So now that we know class balances aren't coming with Summerset, can you at least give us an ETA?
3 months? 6? New year?
Are we really asking that much?

My pov (not needed but still): Im spending more and more time on monster hunter world lately, and that's because I don't feel like playing eso, not because I don't like the game, but because classes (all of 'em) need a he'll of a fix.
Came back for clockwork, completed the main story and left.
I'll be back again for summerset and I already know it, I'll complete again the main quest and I'll leave again.
I wonder if I'll be doing this with every dlc/chapter or if finally at some point I'll get the chance to play for a tad more just cause classes get their fixes.

It's an honest question, really, no drama, no sarcasm, I'd really like to know when we'll get it.

Thanks

Voxicity · May 2018

I personally find the current balance the best it's ever been since I started playing 3 years ago. I mean there are some underpowered and overpowered setups, but nothing compared to what there was before

redspecter23 · May 2018

At this point, if ZOS came here and actually stated an ETA for class balance, would people believe them? The answer is likely "No ETA" anyway.

Pink_Violinz · May 2018

Asking for class balance is like asking for world peace.

A nice sentiment, but realistically never gonna happen.

FireCowCommando · May 2018

Might as well be asking Kylo Ren when hes going to balance the force

Ahzek · May 2018

Next major patch.

Kappa

casparian · May 2018

Asking them to give us an ETA on when the classes will be balanced will go nowhere. They've already said (correctly) that class balance is an ongoing, never-ending task.

What we ought to ask them is when the quarterly combat update is coming (we haven't had one since January) and when they will share with us their vision for what class balance looks like and what steps they are planning to take to work toward that.

Odnoc · May 2018

There will never be perfect class balance in a fantasy MMORPG, hell, even WOW has issues and they've been attempting it for over a decade. It's just impossible to perfectly balance all class mechanics.

If you want perfect balance, you need to go to a game where there is 0 differences between characters, and even then other issues such as ping come into play that will make things imbalanced.

srfrogg23 · May 2018

Balancing the classes is a never ending process. Just be thankful Zos hasn’t streamlined and dumbed down the classes and skills to the point of total homogeneity.

That 1.5% dps isn’t worth it. Trust me.

BohnT · May 2018

Voxicity wrote: »

I personally find the current balance the best it's ever been since I started playing 3 years ago. I mean there are some underpowered and overpowered setups, but nothing compared to what there was before

Stamnb only player hmmmm there is something wrong here but i can't point with the Finger on it.

Juju_beans · May 2018

There will never be "class balance" in any MMO ever.

Learn to play with what you have. Each class has their strengths and weakness.
If you need to play FOTM then create one of each class so you have them all.

Voxicity · May 2018

BohnT wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

I personally find the current balance the best it's ever been since I started playing 3 years ago. I mean there are some underpowered and overpowered setups, but nothing compared to what there was before

Stamnb only player hmmmm there is something wrong here but i can't point with the Finger on it.

I've played stamnb magplar magdk and magsorc quite a lot, like 50 days each played except nb with 150

I don't just play PvP, although my high skill might suggest otherwise

Alcest · May 2018

Classes will never be balanced. They just need to add something new in gameplay to make it a bit different every update to prevent stagnation. Once we reached perfect balance and game will stay in same perfect balanced contidition forever - it would be boring and playerbase will gradually decrease. Also, i guess there was a perfect balance some years ago, probably before they added CP levels.

Xuhora · May 2018

I genuinly hope the class-rep Programm is the start of a serious attempt to balance whats wrong at the moment.

casparian · May 2018

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Balancing the classes is a never ending process. Just be thankful Zos hasn’t streamlined and dumbed down the classes and skills to the point of total homogeneity.

That 1.5% dps isn’t worth it. Trust me.

I wish people would stop peddling the myth that when we talk about class imbalance we're talking about a miniscule difference in DPS. There is a 10k+ difference in DPS potential between some classes in a real trial environment, in part because some classes are badly in need of updating and in part because the new mobility-centered trial design that has prevailed since Morrowind highly favors the mobile classes. This is why the most effective DPS composition for trials is most likely going to be composed of 2-3 classes, with a number of specs (e.g. stamsorc, magplar, any 2H stam build, etc.) being simply unwelcome. That shouldn't be acceptable to anyone who cares about completing content above normal level.

Anne_Firehawk · May 2018

casparian wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Balancing the classes is a never ending process. Just be thankful Zos hasn’t streamlined and dumbed down the classes and skills to the point of total homogeneity.

That 1.5% dps isn’t worth it. Trust me.

I wish people would stop peddling the myth that when we talk about class imbalance we're talking about a miniscule difference in DPS. There is a 10k+ difference in DPS potential between some classes in a real trial environment, in part because some classes are badly in need of updating and in part because the new mobility-centered trial design that has prevailed since Morrowind highly favors the mobile classes. This is why the most effective DPS composition for trials is most likely going to be composed of 2-3 classes, with a number of specs (e.g. stamsorc, magplar, any 2H stam build, etc.) being simply unwelcome. That shouldn't be acceptable to anyone who cares about completing content above normal level.

@casparian
Thank you very much, I felt like most other people in this thread lacked brain mass, specially those saying "there will never be balance mimimi blablabla".
You don't need balance for your world bosses or dungeons or whatever the heck you are doing in this game, but above that balance is needed.

Demion · May 2018

Soon (tm)

Invincible · May 2018

Server stability trumps all class balance, skill, vanity, qol etc concerns in my opinion.

Shut down servers for 6 months and figure it the F out zeni.

Marginis · May 2018

I mean, they're working on it. Some sizable changes are in the Summerset patch.

From what I recall hearing, also, they were planning on letting the dust settle a bit on the Summerset changes, then doing some small stuff for a little while on PTS, then class balance is the next thing on their list, seeing as they don't want to overhaul too much all at once.

I'll update this if I can find a quote somewhere...

Strider__Roshin · May 2018

Balance is actually really good right now. The only thing I would do is change up Scorch so it's less OP in PvP, but much stronger in PvE.

Emmagoldman · May 2018

I feel the game is close to "balance", which with passives, will never really happen and shouldnt.

Id like to see them:
1. work on skill, class, race balance (very very small changes to race)

2. Set balance: there are so many sets that could be decent and add a lot of variety. Even if they added a stat value to the 5 piece of some trash sets.
3. Skill, classes and weapons. The dev team is way to cautious with creating any of these. All three can be used to fill gaps in player options and add excitment to the game.

Peekachu99 · May 2018

I thought this was the class balance patch? That’s what it was being billed as beforehand.

Thogard · May 2018

I liked clockwork city balance more than dragonbones balance. Too many of the NB counters are no longer NB counters.

Ley · May 2018

"ETA for class balance" what an absurd request. Balance is never ending, there is no true balance, only an ever shifting meta.

If you want an ETA on their next balance adjustment, then you have to look no further than Summerset.

srfrogg23 · May 2018

casparian wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Balancing the classes is a never ending process. Just be thankful Zos hasn’t streamlined and dumbed down the classes and skills to the point of total homogeneity.

That 1.5% dps isn’t worth it. Trust me.

I wish people would stop peddling the myth that when we talk about class imbalance we're talking about a miniscule difference in DPS. There is a 10k+ difference in DPS potential between some classes in a real trial environment, in part because some classes are badly in need of updating and in part because the new mobility-centered trial design that has prevailed since Morrowind highly favors the mobile classes. This is why the most effective DPS composition for trials is most likely going to be composed of 2-3 classes, with a number of specs (e.g. stamsorc, magplar, any 2H stam build, etc.) being simply unwelcome. That shouldn't be acceptable to anyone who cares about completing content above normal level.

I’ve played my share of World of Warcraft. Blizzard gave in to the philosophy that every class needs to be equally good at whatever role they are used for in raiding. It resulted in a game where everything is so streamlined, dumbed down, and homogenized that nobody even has to think strategically anymore.

Honestly, I’m ok with there being a discrepancy in the effectiveness of certain classes in different roles. You have so many build options to choose from. Appreciate that, use it. Experiment, tinker, try different strategies. Use different combinations of skills, stats, CPs, and gear sets to find what works. Embrace it.

Stop looking to META builds from YouTube and other sites like they’re gospel. You’ll get the puzzle put together right and you’ll do fine in the Trials. That’s the point to this system and to an RPG.

Assess your character’s strengths and weaknesses and find a way to overcome it. That is the real balance. When people ask for “class balance”, they’re really just asking for homogenization of the classes for raiding purposes, and that just makes for a crappy game - do you want green or blue abilities that do 2000 damage with each cast? I don’t. Variety is a good thing and not everything needs to be equal in capability.

casparian · May 2018

srfrogg23 wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Balancing the classes is a never ending process. Just be thankful Zos hasn’t streamlined and dumbed down the classes and skills to the point of total homogeneity.

That 1.5% dps isn’t worth it. Trust me.

I wish people would stop peddling the myth that when we talk about class imbalance we're talking about a miniscule difference in DPS. There is a 10k+ difference in DPS potential between some classes in a real trial environment, in part because some classes are badly in need of updating and in part because the new mobility-centered trial design that has prevailed since Morrowind highly favors the mobile classes. This is why the most effective DPS composition for trials is most likely going to be composed of 2-3 classes, with a number of specs (e.g. stamsorc, magplar, any 2H stam build, etc.) being simply unwelcome. That shouldn't be acceptable to anyone who cares about completing content above normal level.

I’ve played my share of World of Warcraft. Blizzard gave in to the philosophy that every class needs to be equally good at whatever role they are used for in raiding. It resulted in a game where everything is so streamlined, dumbed down, and homogenized that nobody even has to think strategically anymore.

Honestly, I’m ok with there being a discrepancy in the effectiveness of certain classes in different roles. You have so many build options to choose from. Appreciate that, use it. Experiment, tinker, try different strategies. Use different combinations of skills, stats, CPs, and gear sets to find what works. Embrace it.

Stop looking to META builds from YouTube and other sites like they’re gospel. You’ll get the puzzle put together right and you’ll do fine in the Trials. That’s the point to this system and to an RPG.

Assess your character’s strengths and weaknesses and find a way to overcome it. That is the real balance. When people ask for “class balance”, they’re really just asking for homogenization of the classes for raiding purposes, and that just makes for a crappy game - do you want green or blue abilities that do 2000 damage with each cast? I don’t. Variety is a good thing and not everything needs to be equal in capability.

This isn't a matter of not knowing my class's strengths and weakness or not thinking hard enough. There is not a way to make a magplar as mobile as a magblade and still perform at the same level. There is not a way to make a magplar pull as much DPS as a magblade. Any amount of work I put into making my class function at its peak would result in even higher performance on a different class. It should not be the case that the same amount of time spent theorycrafting, practicing on a target dummy, and gaining experience in raids will reliably yield 20% more DPS on one class than another.

I'm not asking for homogenization -- I want a unique, class-specific way to pull top-tier DPS on the class I chose. Just like nightblades want a unique, class-specific way to achieve top-tier tank performance, DKs want a unique, class-specific way to achieve top-tier healing, and so on.

yodased · May 2018

Not to *** in your cereal, but you are literally following this games model.

Every couple of months you play for a few weeks, buy the expansion, do the content and move on..

THAT is this games designed experience. Anyone looking for long term lasting progession and changes to balance really need to look at a vertical progression game.

thankyourat · May 2018

Thogard wrote: »

I liked clockwork city balance more than dragonbones balance. Too many of the NB counters are no longer NB counters.

Besides whip and birds everything else is still pretty much the same when dealing with stamblades. So if your class didn't have access to those abilities nothing has really changed in dealing with stamblades

srfrogg23 · May 2018

casparian wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Balancing the classes is a never ending process. Just be thankful Zos hasn’t streamlined and dumbed down the classes and skills to the point of total homogeneity.

That 1.5% dps isn’t worth it. Trust me.

I wish people would stop peddling the myth that when we talk about class imbalance we're talking about a miniscule difference in DPS. There is a 10k+ difference in DPS potential between some classes in a real trial environment, in part because some classes are badly in need of updating and in part because the new mobility-centered trial design that has prevailed since Morrowind highly favors the mobile classes. This is why the most effective DPS composition for trials is most likely going to be composed of 2-3 classes, with a number of specs (e.g. stamsorc, magplar, any 2H stam build, etc.) being simply unwelcome. That shouldn't be acceptable to anyone who cares about completing content above normal level.

I’ve played my share of World of Warcraft. Blizzard gave in to the philosophy that every class needs to be equally good at whatever role they are used for in raiding. It resulted in a game where everything is so streamlined, dumbed down, and homogenized that nobody even has to think strategically anymore.

Honestly, I’m ok with there being a discrepancy in the effectiveness of certain classes in different roles. You have so many build options to choose from. Appreciate that, use it. Experiment, tinker, try different strategies. Use different combinations of skills, stats, CPs, and gear sets to find what works. Embrace it.

Stop looking to META builds from YouTube and other sites like they’re gospel. You’ll get the puzzle put together right and you’ll do fine in the Trials. That’s the point to this system and to an RPG.

Assess your character’s strengths and weaknesses and find a way to overcome it. That is the real balance. When people ask for “class balance”, they’re really just asking for homogenization of the classes for raiding purposes, and that just makes for a crappy game - do you want green or blue abilities that do 2000 damage with each cast? I don’t. Variety is a good thing and not everything needs to be equal in capability.

This isn't a matter of not knowing my class's strengths and weakness or not thinking hard enough. There is not a way to make a magplar as mobile as a magblade and still perform at the same level. There is not a way to make a magplar pull as much DPS as a magblade. Any amount of work I put into making my class function at its peak would result in even higher performance on a different class. It should not be the case that the same amount of time spent theorycrafting, practicing on a target dummy, and gaining experience in raids will reliably yield 20% more DPS on one class than another.

I'm not asking for homogenization -- I want a unique, class-specific way to pull top-tier DPS on the class I chose. Just like nightblades want a unique, class-specific way to achieve top-tier tank performance, DKs want a unique, class-specific way to achieve top-tier healing, and so on.

I think you’ll be alright, you’ll get there. Keep working at it. Templars don’t need to be as mobile as Nightblades and Wardens, Sorcerors and Dragonknights don’t need to heal and rez as well as Templars. Nightblades and Dragonknights don’t need to do burst damage as well as Sorcerors and Templars. It’s ok for Dragonknights to be the best at tanking.

Rock, paper, scissors. It makes things more interesting. If you want the mobility and sustained DPS of a Nightblade, then play a Nightblade.

casparian · May 2018

srfrogg23 wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Balancing the classes is a never ending process. Just be thankful Zos hasn’t streamlined and dumbed down the classes and skills to the point of total homogeneity.

That 1.5% dps isn’t worth it. Trust me.

I wish people would stop peddling the myth that when we talk about class imbalance we're talking about a miniscule difference in DPS. There is a 10k+ difference in DPS potential between some classes in a real trial environment, in part because some classes are badly in need of updating and in part because the new mobility-centered trial design that has prevailed since Morrowind highly favors the mobile classes. This is why the most effective DPS composition for trials is most likely going to be composed of 2-3 classes, with a number of specs (e.g. stamsorc, magplar, any 2H stam build, etc.) being simply unwelcome. That shouldn't be acceptable to anyone who cares about completing content above normal level.

I’ve played my share of World of Warcraft. Blizzard gave in to the philosophy that every class needs to be equally good at whatever role they are used for in raiding. It resulted in a game where everything is so streamlined, dumbed down, and homogenized that nobody even has to think strategically anymore.

Honestly, I’m ok with there being a discrepancy in the effectiveness of certain classes in different roles. You have so many build options to choose from. Appreciate that, use it. Experiment, tinker, try different strategies. Use different combinations of skills, stats, CPs, and gear sets to find what works. Embrace it.

Stop looking to META builds from YouTube and other sites like they’re gospel. You’ll get the puzzle put together right and you’ll do fine in the Trials. That’s the point to this system and to an RPG.

Assess your character’s strengths and weaknesses and find a way to overcome it. That is the real balance. When people ask for “class balance”, they’re really just asking for homogenization of the classes for raiding purposes, and that just makes for a crappy game - do you want green or blue abilities that do 2000 damage with each cast? I don’t. Variety is a good thing and not everything needs to be equal in capability.

This isn't a matter of not knowing my class's strengths and weakness or not thinking hard enough. There is not a way to make a magplar as mobile as a magblade and still perform at the same level. There is not a way to make a magplar pull as much DPS as a magblade. Any amount of work I put into making my class function at its peak would result in even higher performance on a different class. It should not be the case that the same amount of time spent theorycrafting, practicing on a target dummy, and gaining experience in raids will reliably yield 20% more DPS on one class than another.

I'm not asking for homogenization -- I want a unique, class-specific way to pull top-tier DPS on the class I chose. Just like nightblades want a unique, class-specific way to achieve top-tier tank performance, DKs want a unique, class-specific way to achieve top-tier healing, and so on.

I think you’ll be alright, you’ll get there. Keep working at it. Templars don’t need to be as mobile as Nightblades and Wardens, Sorcerors and Dragonknights don’t need to heal and rez as well as Templars. Nightblades and Dragonknights don’t need to do burst damage as well as Sorcerors and Templars. It’s ok for Dragonknights to be the best at tanking.

Rock, paper, scissors. It makes things more interesting. If you want the mobility and sustained DPS of a Nightblade, then play a Nightblade.

Based on your comments, it's unclear to me how familiar you are with the new trials. But please keep the condescending tone out of your future forum posts.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2018

Just assume never because in how they make changes, many of those commenting will want other changes. You can't mix water and oil and expect good blending to occur.
hydrophobe.png?t=1454429713

Its not like they are actually looking to make major adjustments (not balance as in making things equal) but instead adjustments as they drastically changed what allowed balance to somewhat exist right at release.

Major changes like separating PvP from PvE entirely

*Crazy idea*
-Limit PvP to the PvP skill trees and weapon skill lines only in a unique server and remove CP passives, see what happens.
-Adjust the Class skills and Guild Skills back in line with PvE bosses and increase the difficulty of non boss NPCs (not by increasing health and resistances but by increasing their AI)