Ok then so..my area of expertise stops at Hundings Rage and Vicious Ophidian. Maybe Hundings and Hircines?

devilsTear wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/393796/werewolf-theorycrafting-pvp/p2

This topic will be helpful.

Yep, very useful thread ,

Vengeance Leech is no good at all in PVP in any form. It's minuscule returns only benefit you in a place full of trash mobs, that you can DOT to death (i.e light attack/claws of life in for example Maelstrom Arena).

Everybody goes on about "Pelinals Pelinals Pelinals! And Prisoner's Rags!" like little kids yelling about Santa Claus. Something they heard is great, but that they never really saw. As if being a werewolf was about surviving through running and strong self healing, if it is - you're doing it WRONG!
Pelinal might work for you, if you like running and getting beat up, and heal through it. The heals are pretty ok, but that's about it. I wasn't really that impressed when I used that set and Prisoner's Rags. In theory it's great. But feels very "meh" when you sit there with it. Chudan isn't *really* that great for werewolf imho. You take a little while longer to grind down, that's about it. I use it on one of my WW's, but it isn't "meta" for me. You need to know when you have to make a retreat, if you use it.

The builds I've been using with best results are these, all are dual wield on ww transformation bar. Sometimes I go dual swords, sometimes 1 sword/1 dagger or dual daggers (depending on crit chance etc.), Nirnhoned and Sharpened or Precise. The rest is irrelevant for anything but human form.

1. 2x Molag Kena, 5x Mechanical Acuity, 5x Bone Pirate.
2. 2x Slimecraw, 5x Shacklebreaker, 5x Hulking Draugr
3. 2x Mighty Chudan, 5x Fortified Brass, 5x Senche's Bite
4. 2x Troll King, 5x Shacklebreaker, 5x Salvation

And an odd one (only viable in IC): 5. 2x Troll King, 5x Imperial Physique, 5x Hulking Draugr

All except #3 uses 5 heavy (and 1/1 light/heavy with Undaunted Mettle passive)

A few comments on these:

1. Put your focus on direct damage, and put a lot of points into Precise Strikes. Here's where you'll want that "Bloodthirsty" jewelry trait in next update. This one is evil, and bound to get you rage whispers with accusations of cheating etc. People die. Hard. You don't want to spend too much time in ww form on this one, as a difference from the other setups. I've killed people in fair fights with this one, that I've never been able to kill before (healplars, obvious cheaters, top players etc.)
2. A boring bread and butter build. Not great, but easy to play. Just grind people down. Works great in human form too, at least on a DK.
3. A fun build. 5 medium setup, an "in-and-out-and-howl" build. Basically a zerg build, you can spent lots of time in the middle of AOE's, fearing enemies and putting DOT's on them. You should dodge roll out, heal up - pounce in and wave around like a windmill, howl someone down and dodge roll out again. It's great for chasing down fleeing enemies as well. Unlock Butcher and Tactician perks in The Atronach, for synergy with Senche's Bite proc.
4. A trustworthy one, a "stay-in-werewolf-form" build. Much like #2, but the recovery is slightly better. Damage might also be better, I dunno. I run it on a Stamplar.
5. The king of kings. This one is ridiculous. +60k Stamina, +30k Health, +20k Magicka. If you are able to get around 3.5k weapon damage (which is really low for a ww), you'll be a real killer. You won't believe how strong this is. Small scale (or solo!) the Sewers and City with this one, and you'll eventually have enemies calling for backup to take revenge on you - so keep that Sigil of Imperial Retreat close. ;-)
As an example: Last night me and 4 friends found two others through area chat in the sewers. They warned about some +20 DC around the Barathrum Centrata. They wanted revenge for being zerged down, and were in sneak at the center. We grouped with them, and made our way there. We went into sneak, and waited for that "That which is eternal....", then we rushed those DC. And oh my, the bloody end of them smurfs. I killed about half of them myself, nearly all of them while fleeing. I nearly wet myself laughing. Horrible, bad, bad dog.

General ww advice.
Race: Nord or Imperial. Enough said. Nothing else.
Food: Tristat, like Longfin Pasty. If you don't have a more specific build, like my #1 example.
Champion Points: Unless you're on a more odd build like my #1.
- Green Constellations: Mooncalf/Tenacity/Arcanist and Tumbling are most important. Warlord and Sprinter too. If you use Claws of Anguish, go for Befoul as well.
- Blue Constellations: Physical Weapons Expert, Master-at-Arms, Mighty, Thaumaturge and Piercing all needs love. Focus on Physical Weapons Expert, as most of your damage will be from light/heavy attacks. Adjust rest according to gear etc.
- Red Constellations: I go mostly for Resistances here (as we can't use shields/major resistances). Admittedly, I'm not good at these CP's. By all means, don't believe the "Werewolves are so susceptible to poison!" talk, it's bull****. I've never had a problem with poison. CC is your problem, everyone will snare/root you constantly.

Most of my werewolves have a recovery of around 1600-2300 (all buffed). Sounds low, but it's well enough. Because you'll be heavy attacking a lot, and you will have made sure that you have reduced Sprinting and Dodge costs.
Get Immovable pots with Major Endurance and Major Savagery, and use Stamina trash pots as emergency fuel when you need to chase someone or flee, you can have classic "speed potions" for Chasing/fleeing as well. Invisibility pots are great too, really fun to sneak up on someone from sneak, heavy attack and howl them from behind while reading maps etc. ;-)

As for monster sets: Best is probably Troll King, especially on a Nord - which is the best race for werewolves (shove your redguards, woodelves and orcs up your behind). But then you need to use Claws of Life, as Hircine's Bounty will set you above 60% health 99% of the time. Chudan is ok, but then you'll need to know when you've had enough, and need a little retreat. Damage monster sets of your choice is viable, but they might be better for shorter werewolf durations. I dunno really.

Classes, I guess all are viable really. I can't see why anyone would want to be a Warden though, despite all these "werewarden" builds etc. I have noticed that the Maturation passive kicks in randomly when in werewolf form, I dunno why/how though. DK's are great, because you "reset" when you transform. Back to full stats. Otherwise I really have no preferred class for WW.

My werewolves are pretty crap in human form, to be fair - and sometimes I mostly act as support/utility when in human form. I mostly try to build ultimate to transform, when I'm not in werewolf form. I use a Decisive or Nirnhoned Asylum 2H weapon on backbar, and primarily whack up Mage guards etc. with it to gain ulti. It's really fast.

I'm probably one of the top 5 PVP werewolves on Xbox EU, humbly put. I've had like all BG achievements in ww form, finished vet Maelstrom in WW form (Vengeance Leech/Vicious Ophidian/Chudan makes it a walk in the park), and can solo most vet Dungeons in ww form. I know the werewolf pretty well, I'm not the best player around (just so noone needs to tell me!), but I do know werewolves well.

Thanks for the info! I do like Orc, but Raudgrani usage of nord seems too good. The guy seems extremely knowledgeable. And I’ve never made a nord so it seems fitting to give it a shot.

Thinking about converting my Stam DK to Nord or straight leveling a new toon. I really don’t like the Stam DK that much, so staying in WW might make playing the class better.

I have a StamSorc could work on...but redguard StamSorc is so OP atm in PVE...it would be odd to wreck such a good working build.

I got a bite and started working on WW class on my Stamplar, just because I was on the toon and someone was giving out bites.

It levels up so slow and I can’t stay in WW form for very long. Is there other tricks to leveling WW? If I just slot the WW ultimate transformation, will the whole line level? There’s no way I’m gonna level this in Cyrodil.

Aznox wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Vengeance Leech is no good at all in PVP in any form. It's minuscule returns only benefit you in a place full of trash mobs, that you can DOT to death (i.e light attack/claws of life in for example Maelstrom Arena).

Everybody goes on about "Pelinals Pelinals Pelinals! And Prisoner's Rags!" like little kids yelling about Santa Claus. Something they heard is great, but that they never really saw. As if being a werewolf was about surviving through running and strong self healing, if it is - you're doing it WRONG!
Pelinal might work for you, if you like running and getting beat up, and heal through it. The heals are pretty ok, but that's about it. I wasn't really that impressed when I used that set and Prisoner's Rags. In theory it's great. But feels very "meh" when you sit there with it. Chudan isn't *really* that great for werewolf imho. You take a little while longer to grind down, that's about it. I use it on one of my WW's, but it isn't "meta" for me. You need to know when you have to make a retreat, if you use it.

The builds I've been using with best results are these, all are dual wield on ww transformation bar. Sometimes I go dual swords, sometimes 1 sword/1 dagger or dual daggers (depending on crit chance etc.), Nirnhoned and Sharpened or Precise. The rest is irrelevant for anything but human form.

1. 2x Molag Kena, 5x Mechanical Acuity, 5x Bone Pirate.
2. 2x Slimecraw, 5x Shacklebreaker, 5x Hulking Draugr
3. 2x Mighty Chudan, 5x Fortified Brass, 5x Senche's Bite
4. 2x Troll King, 5x Shacklebreaker, 5x Salvation

And an odd one (only viable in IC): 5. 2x Troll King, 5x Imperial Physique, 5x Hulking Draugr

All except #3 uses 5 heavy (and 1/1 light/heavy with Undaunted Mettle passive)

A few comments on these:

1. Put your focus on direct damage, and put a lot of points into Precise Strikes. Here's where you'll want that "Bloodthirsty" jewelry trait in next update. This one is evil, and bound to get you rage whispers with accusations of cheating etc. People die. Hard. You don't want to spend too much time in ww form on this one, as a difference from the other setups. I've killed people in fair fights with this one, that I've never been able to kill before (healplars, obvious cheaters, top players etc.)
2. A boring bread and butter build. Not great, but easy to play. Just grind people down. Works great in human form too, at least on a DK.
3. A fun build. 5 medium setup, an "in-and-out-and-howl" build. Basically a zerg build, you can spent lots of time in the middle of AOE's, fearing enemies and putting DOT's on them. You should dodge roll out, heal up - pounce in and wave around like a windmill, howl someone down and dodge roll out again. It's great for chasing down fleeing enemies as well. Unlock Butcher and Tactician perks in The Atronach, for synergy with Senche's Bite proc.
4. A trustworthy one, a "stay-in-werewolf-form" build. Much like #2, but the recovery is slightly better. Damage might also be better, I dunno. I run it on a Stamplar.
5. The king of kings. This one is ridiculous. +60k Stamina, +30k Health, +20k Magicka. If you are able to get around 3.5k weapon damage (which is really low for a ww), you'll be a real killer. You won't believe how strong this is. Small scale (or solo!) the Sewers and City with this one, and you'll eventually have enemies calling for backup to take revenge on you - so keep that Sigil of Imperial Retreat close. ;-)
As an example: Last night me and 4 friends found two others through area chat in the sewers. They warned about some +20 DC around the Barathrum Centrata. They wanted revenge for being zerged down, and were in sneak at the center. We grouped with them, and made our way there. We went into sneak, and waited for that "That which is eternal....", then we rushed those DC. And oh my, the bloody end of them smurfs. I killed about half of them myself, nearly all of them while fleeing. I nearly wet myself laughing. Horrible, bad, bad dog.

General ww advice.
Race: Nord or Imperial. Enough said. Nothing else.
Food: Tristat, like Longfin Pasty. If you don't have a more specific build, like my #1 example.
Champion Points: Unless you're on a more odd build like my #1.
- Green Constellations: Mooncalf/Tenacity/Arcanist and Tumbling are most important. Warlord and Sprinter too. If you use Claws of Anguish, go for Befoul as well.
- Blue Constellations: Physical Weapons Expert, Master-at-Arms, Mighty, Thaumaturge and Piercing all needs love. Focus on Physical Weapons Expert, as most of your damage will be from light/heavy attacks. Adjust rest according to gear etc.
- Red Constellations: I go mostly for Resistances here (as we can't use shields/major resistances). Admittedly, I'm not good at these CP's. By all means, don't believe the "Werewolves are so susceptible to poison!" talk, it's bull****. I've never had a problem with poison. CC is your problem, everyone will snare/root you constantly.

Most of my werewolves have a recovery of around 1600-2300 (all buffed). Sounds low, but it's well enough. Because you'll be heavy attacking a lot, and you will have made sure that you have reduced Sprinting and Dodge costs.
Get Immovable pots with Major Endurance and Major Savagery, and use Stamina trash pots as emergency fuel when you need to chase someone or flee, you can have classic "speed potions" for Chasing/fleeing as well. Invisibility pots are great too, really fun to sneak up on someone from sneak, heavy attack and howl them from behind while reading maps etc. ;-)

As for monster sets: Best is probably Troll King, especially on a Nord - which is the best race for werewolves (shove your redguards, woodelves and orcs up your behind). But then you need to use Claws of Life, as Hircine's Bounty will set you above 60% health 99% of the time. Chudan is ok, but then you'll need to know when you've had enough, and need a little retreat. Damage monster sets of your choice is viable, but they might be better for shorter werewolf durations. I dunno really.

Classes, I guess all are viable really. I can't see why anyone would want to be a Warden though, despite all these "werewarden" builds etc. I have noticed that the Maturation passive kicks in randomly when in werewolf form, I dunno why/how though. DK's are great, because you "reset" when you transform. Back to full stats. Otherwise I really have no preferred class for WW.

My werewolves are pretty crap in human form, to be fair - and sometimes I mostly act as support/utility when in human form. I mostly try to build ultimate to transform, when I'm not in werewolf form. I use a Decisive or Nirnhoned Asylum 2H weapon on backbar, and primarily whack up Mage guards etc. with it to gain ulti. It's really fast.

I'm probably one of the top 5 PVP werewolves on Xbox EU, humbly put. I've had like all BG achievements in ww form, finished vet Maelstrom in WW form (Vengeance Leech/Vicious Ophidian/Chudan makes it a walk in the park), and can solo most vet Dungeons in ww form. I know the werewolf pretty well, I'm not the best player around (just so noone needs to tell me!), but I do know werewolves well.

Lots of good info in this post, let me just list some small points of disagreement

• From a pure werewolf perspective, Orc is at least as good as Nord, if not superior
• Sorcerer has a clear advantage in term of passives working in werewolf form
• Claws of life is not worth it in PvP, use lingering health pots to proc Troll King
• I play with as low as 1200-1400 stam recovery, you can get 12K stamina from a heavy attack on off-balanced (fear) opponent.
• For dual wield bar : infused off-hand is the best option to boost you weapon damage glyph and cut cooldown on both enchants.
• Stacking Weapon Damage is currently better than Max Stamina (Hulking Draugr vs Automaton) BUT this will probably change in Summerset

I agree with everything else, personally i run Troll King + Shacklebreaker + Automaton (and replace automaton for Imperial Physique in IC). 5 Heavy 1 Medium 1 Light / Full Tristat and impenetrable.

Thank you for sharing your views.

I mainly use Claws of Life, because don't want to be caught dying on a potion cooldown. In for example Battlegrounds, I don't know how many times I've survived on a potion cooldown - by just slapping someone with one damn Claws of Life, with my very last Stamina, and then pulled back to see my health go back to full health over a few seconds.

Hahahaha, nooo no orcs! :-D Nah, well. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. Orcs and Nords are very similar, but I prefer the more tankiness. Being in werewolf form means being zerged more often for me, than it means chasing someone. Might be different for someone else. I benefit more from being able to take and recover from attacks, and then fight back - than the rare opportunity to actually chase down someone. Maybe a year or so ago that could still happen, these days 2x 24 man groups generally show up at the same time, and you don't need to chase them further than the closest tower. ;-)

About stamina recovery, yeah. Most people are like "How do you sustain on 1600 recovery!?", and I'm like "It's a werewolf", and they follow up with "With really expensive skills, yeah!?". Hard to argue, when they don't listen when you tell them of the stamina restore of heavy attacks in werewolf form.
Max stats vs damage has a mathematic formula alright, but how you actually make use of it is much a matter of playstyle I understand. I tend to prefer a "big gas tank" on most of my builds. I love Automaton for example, but I always want to make sure combine it with something for more max stats. I once did Ravager and Automaton on Stamplar, I really could not deal with the low stamina.
Automaton boosts bleeding damage, or at least so I heard, so it should work well on a werewolf build. I would just be worried about either low stamina and/or magicka.

And about classes, finally. Stamsorcs are great, templars have nice passives just as dragonknights. I don't remember, but I think Wardens and Nightblades are about the only ones that brings hardly anything or nothing at all to the table.
My first werewolf ever was a Stamsorc (with Black Rose/Selene and what more I can't remember), I was so happy when I finally actually could kill people in Cyrodiil, do any world boss solo and what not. ;-)

Aznox wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Does anyone even know about truth set? Lol

By far the best a werewolf can wear.

It is a indeed a great set for werewolf and CP-enabled stamina builds in general.

However in no-CP (Battlegrounds, ...) some classes have no mean to apply off-balance while in human form and even in werewolf form the lack of tactician passive might hurt your buff uptime.

Spriggan as second set and Troll King as monster. Hunding works great too!

Spriggan is never a bad choice especially for a more "burst oriented" playstyle, but keep in mind it doesn't boost our bleed damage at all and is less useful when pressuring a magicka shield user.

You will never - ever - be able to survive in werewolf form, on a "damage oriented build" like Armor of Truth/Spriggan. Anyone who says those two sets together are "best in slot" for werewolves, proves they know diddly squat about werewolf builds.
I'll tell you a REALLY weirdo build, that's ten times stronger than "Armor of Truth and Spriggan, BiS" - which still really isn't any good, but way more survivable and probably equal damage.

5x Sergeant's Mail/Shacklebreaker/Black Rose/Reactive Armor/Warrior's Fury (All tri-stat enchants on the armor, or at least on 3 big pieces)
5x Queens Elegance (jewelry + 2 weapons)

Point is, you WILL need some sort of magicka/magicka recovery/spell damage. Werewolf builds are sort of hybrid builds. You can't smack on Hunding's Rage and Automaton on your doggo, and expect yourself to be successful. It doesn't work that way.