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Is Summerset chapter...
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TelvanniWizard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Azuramoonstar wrote: »TelvanniWizard wrote: »Azuramoonstar wrote: »TelvanniWizard wrote: »You see, when the game started, they said that every piece of new content, all DLC´s would be available for free to suscribers, i.e., those with ESO plus. But last year they released Morrowind, labelling it "chapter", stating that chapters would not be included in ESO plus, forcing subscribers to buy the so called "chapter" if they wanted to enjoy some new content. It probably was economically profitable to them, because that is the new game model we have, 3 DLC´s a year and one "chapter" or expansion, wich is nothing more than an overglorified DLC that has to be bought even by subscribers.
Have you played MMO outside of ESO?
sounds like you don't. All MMO to expansion packs that move the game forward. They are bigger updates to the game thart typically add new jobs and/or new race. Large explorable areas.
Morrowind is ESO first expac. Summerset is the next expac. The dlc are just paid updates for non subs. (like pay to play mmo)
the reason the dlc is free for subs, is the sub cost covers the dlc cost.The dlc is just updates ti the game which are smaller in scope, like the possibility of a small zone addition.
Id suggest looking how MMO work before complaining.
It´s not about how MMO´s work. It´s about what was stated by ZOS. They said "access to all new future content". Then, only then, they decided to add "expansions". That´s the worthiness of their word.
like I said, you just don't understand how the mmo genre works
play MMO outside of ESO see how they work.
Like I said, it is not about how the genre works. I´d be perfectly fine with yearly "expansions" not included in ESO plus if that had been their original statement. But it wasn´t. They changed it mid-game, in an attempt to make subs pay extra. It seems it is not enough for ZOS having thousands of loyal subs paying the monthly fee. A fee thath, over time, covers every content value, wichever the type of content. Now they have also charged for expansions, wich, accordinlgy to ZOS original policy when ESO plus started, should be free new content to subs. I don´t care what other MMO´s do. The matter here is TESO. Using other games as example is a poor excuse.1 -
N00BxV1✭✭✭✭✭
✭ESO's Chapters don't really change the game but they add-on to it just like other DLC ThievesGuild, DarkBrotherhood, Orsinium and ClockworkCity. I've played several other MMOs and plenty of games in general, and have seen how game worlds can change, but that just doesn't happen here.
Morrowind introduced a new playable class, Summerset a new skill line (so did TG, DB, Vampire and Werewolf) and jewelry crafting (which should've been a base game update), but they don't really change the world other than that. It's possible to go anywhere else in Tamriel and completely forget about Morrowind/Summerset because it's just a zone and doesn't affect anything else (for example npc in Tamriel have no clue about these zones or what's happening, the world doesn't change, etc).
So that's why I consider these DLC until they actually impact Tamriel in some meaningful way. If it walks like a DLC and it talks like a DLC then it's gotta be a DLC.2 -
Azuramoonstar✭✭✭✭ESO's Chapters don't really change the game but they add-on to it just like other DLC ThievesGuild, DarkBrotherhood, Orsinium and ClockworkCity. I've played several other MMOs and plenty of games in general, and have seen how game worlds can change, but that just doesn't happen here.
Morrowind introduced a new playable class, Summerset a new skill line (so did TG, DB, Vampire and Werewolf) and jewelry crafting (which should've been a base game update), but they don't really change the world other than that. It's possible to go anywhere else in Tamriel and completely forget about Morrowind/Summerset because it's just a zone and doesn't affect anything else (for example npc in Tamriel have no clue about these zones or what's happening, the world doesn't change, etc).
So that's why I consider these DLC until they actually impact Tamriel in some meaningful way. If it walks like a DLC and it talks like a DLC then it's gotta be a DLC.
most expacs don't change the world only WoWs cata did and it was a mistake on blizz part.
not all mmo have big expacs that add a ton, some have smaller expacs that add newer bigger systems, or newer/bigger zones.
more to expacs then just zones/raids.
you have a vast amount of quests too. which from my experience morrowind added a ton. as there is a new starting area, new story line, new side quests.
most eso dlc only added a smaller zone, or a short story with minimal side quests.
also quest lines hint at next stages. The morrowind quest line with veya hinted at summerset, while wayrest and azura's quest lines hinted at Morrowind, and clockwork city.
everything is interwoven.Long time mmo player: 2004-[current year]
Long time Elder scrolls player: Xbox launch morrowind.
Follower of the dawn and dusk, keeper of the moon and star.0 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Ah ok, thanks for clarify,still i do not have any idea how works ESO.TelvanniWizard wrote: »It´s a DLC, with the name of "chapter" so they can also sell it to subs. Another lame move from ZO$...
Less content than real expansions, just really a dlc with extra fluff0 -
Azuramoonstar✭✭✭✭TelvanniWizard wrote: »Azuramoonstar wrote: »TelvanniWizard wrote: »Azuramoonstar wrote: »TelvanniWizard wrote: »You see, when the game started, they said that every piece of new content, all DLC´s would be available for free to suscribers, i.e., those with ESO plus. But last year they released Morrowind, labelling it "chapter", stating that chapters would not be included in ESO plus, forcing subscribers to buy the so called "chapter" if they wanted to enjoy some new content. It probably was economically profitable to them, because that is the new game model we have, 3 DLC´s a year and one "chapter" or expansion, wich is nothing more than an overglorified DLC that has to be bought even by subscribers.
Have you played MMO outside of ESO?
sounds like you don't. All MMO to expansion packs that move the game forward. They are bigger updates to the game thart typically add new jobs and/or new race. Large explorable areas.
Morrowind is ESO first expac. Summerset is the next expac. The dlc are just paid updates for non subs. (like pay to play mmo)
the reason the dlc is free for subs, is the sub cost covers the dlc cost.The dlc is just updates ti the game which are smaller in scope, like the possibility of a small zone addition.
Id suggest looking how MMO work before complaining.
It´s not about how MMO´s work. It´s about what was stated by ZOS. They said "access to all new future content". Then, only then, they decided to add "expansions". That´s the worthiness of their word.
like I said, you just don't understand how the mmo genre works
play MMO outside of ESO see how they work.
Like I said, it is not about how the genre works. I´d be perfectly fine with yearly "expansions" not included in ESO plus if that had been their original statement. But it wasn´t. They changed it mid-game, in an attempt to make subs pay extra. It seems it is not enough for ZOS having thousands of loyal subs paying the monthly fee. A fee thath, over time, covers every content value, wichever the type of content. Now they have also charged for expansions, wich, accordinlgy to ZOS original policy when ESO plus started, should be free new content to subs. I don´t care what other MMO´s do. The matter here is TESO. Using other games as example is a poor excuse.
It is about hiw MMO work, you just do not understand it. -_-;;Long time mmo player: 2004-[current year]
Long time Elder scrolls player: Xbox launch morrowind.
Follower of the dawn and dusk, keeper of the moon and star.0 -
UncannyLinderman✭✭✭Let's be honest, chapter is a fancy word for a small expansion. It's not the same as the DLC that comes with a sub. And a company that constantly churns out new content (whether it satisfies you personally or not) requires revenue to pay the hourly wages of those working on it (get a job and pay bills if this concept is alien to you).0 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭UncannyLinderman wrote: »Let's be honest, chapter is a fancy word for a small expansion. It's not the same as the DLC that comes with a sub. And a company that constantly churns out new content (whether it satisfies you personally or not) requires revenue to pay the hourly wages of those working on it (get a job and pay bills if this concept is alien to you).
They're getting way more than they possibly need anyway, they really should add all these "Chapters" as Eso+ content tbh, its just turning into EA greed now a days2 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Azuramoonstar wrote: »not all mmo saw massive expacs. Some have smaller expac. ff11 and ff14 come to mind.
Please tell me which FF XIV expansion has been "smaller". Heavensward and Stormblood both have been massive expansions with 3/2 new jobs and several new zones/dungeons/raids.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Like literally people who hate here should really look how other MMOs suck people's money
Nothing to do with hate, Summerset and Chapters in general are most likely a rip off for $30 when compared to other MMORPGs. I bought Morrowind because I really wanted it even for the high price, Summerset couldn't convince me at all, at least not for $30. I will buy it for $10 in 6-12 months though.
From an objective and non-biased standpoint every Chapter feels like a major disappointment when compared to ESOs competitors.
Just compare a $30 WoW Legion or FF XIV Stormblood to a $30 Summerset. For the first you get 5 times the contents you get for the latter.Edited by Seraphayel on May 12, 2018 1:57PMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
Radinyn✭✭✭✭✭
Fixed this for youSeraphayel wrote: »Like literally people who hate here should really look how other MMOs suck people's money
Nothing to do with hate, Summerset and Chapters in general are most likely a rip off for $30 when compared to other MMORPGs. I bought Morrowind because I really wanted it even for the high price, Summerset couldn't convince me at all, at least not for $30. I will buy it for $10 in 6-12 months though.
From an objective and non-biased standpoint my point of view every Chapter feels like a major disappointment when compared to ESOs competitors.
Just compare a $30 WoW Legion or FF XIV Stormblood to a $30 Summerset. For the first you get 5 times the contents you get for the latter.
And if you want to compare WoW and FF XIV, add their subscription that you have to pay for playing them to the cost. And comparing WoW to any new MMO is not so good now because of how old it is and how easy it is to make content for it compared to other games RN, just because of technology.1 -
Davor✭✭✭✭✭
✭I go one step more and say it's really an "Add On". I am curious how many will get this reference.Not my quote but I love this saying
"I would pay It for support. But since they choosed we are just numbers and not customers, i dont mind if game and zos goes to oblivion"0 -
Radinyn✭✭✭✭✭ESO's Chapters don't really change the game but they add-on to it just like other DLC ThievesGuild, DarkBrotherhood, Orsinium and ClockworkCity. I've played several other MMOs and plenty of games in general, and have seen how game worlds can change, but that just doesn't happen here.
Morrowind introduced a new playable class, Summerset a new skill line (so did TG, DB, Vampire and Werewolf) and jewelry crafting (which should've been a base game update), but they don't really change the world other than that. It's possible to go anywhere else in Tamriel and completely forget about Morrowind/Summerset because it's just a zone and doesn't affect anything else (for example npc in Tamriel have no clue about these zones or what's happening, the world doesn't change, etc).
So that's why I consider these DLC until they actually impact Tamriel in some meaningful way. If it walks like a DLC and it talks like a DLC then it's gotta be a DLC.
Because making it change Tamriel would most likely make it P2W or require a ton of work (and in the time between such a updates game would die because of no new content).
Plus each zone if further in time then the previous one, it's explained in Summerset. and the rest of Tamriel changes, you are just not out there to see it.0 -
Davor✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just find it funny that Steam calls it DLC. I wonder why Zenimax hasn't taken Valve to court over this. After all if Valve can call it DLC then I am sure a judge would agree with them. Sadly we don't have Games Workshop I mean Zenimax loving to sue people funds to make them accountable for it.Not my quote but I love this saying
"I would pay It for support. But since they choosed we are just numbers and not customers, i dont mind if game and zos goes to oblivion"1 -
Radinyn✭✭✭✭✭I just find it funny that Steam calls it DLC. I wonder why Zenimax hasn't taken Valve to court over this. After all if Valve can call it DLC then I am sure a judge would agree with them. Sadly we don't have Games Workshop I mean Zenimax loving to sue people funds to make them accountable for it.
That's because DLC definition is different within both of them
Valve calls really everything the game with seperate purchase a DLC.
Zenimax calls only some of it.
Some even call every update a DLC.0 -
Davor✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just find it funny that Steam calls it DLC. I wonder why Zenimax hasn't taken Valve to court over this. After all if Valve can call it DLC then I am sure a judge would agree with them. Sadly we don't have Games Workshop I mean Zenimax loving to sue people funds to make them accountable for it.
That's because DLC definition is different within both of them
Valve calls really everything the game with seperate purchase a DLC.
Zenimax calls only some of it.
Some even call every update a DLC.
Valve calls everything DLC because it is. Just because Zenimax calls only some of it, doesn't mean they are still not legally correct in doing so. As I don't have the funds to see if I am correct or not, it will never be proven and Zenimax knows this since they know nobody will take them to court and no lawyer will ever take this pro bono like someone did with Games Workshop.
Then again, if a lawyer ever does take it pro bono and wins, that is a HUGE part in their portfolio.
Edited by Davor on May 12, 2018 2:43PMNot my quote but I love this saying
"I would pay It for support. But since they choosed we are just numbers and not customers, i dont mind if game and zos goes to oblivion"0 -
Orticia✭✭✭✭
Fixed this for youSeraphayel wrote: »Like literally people who hate here should really look how other MMOs suck people's money
Nothing to do with hate, Summerset and Chapters in general are most likely a rip off for $30 when compared to other MMORPGs. I bought Morrowind because I really wanted it even for the high price, Summerset couldn't convince me at all, at least not for $30. I will buy it for $10 in 6-12 months though.
From an objective and non-biased standpoint my point of view every Chapter feels like a major disappointment when compared to ESOs competitors.
Just compare a $30 WoW Legion or FF XIV Stormblood to a $30 Summerset. For the first you get 5 times the contents you get for the latter.
And if you want to compare WoW and FF XIV, add their subscription that you have to pay for playing them to the cost. And comparing WoW to any new MMO is not so good now because of how old it is and how easy it is to make content for it compared to other games RN, just because of technology.
Agreed. Wow is not a good comparison as you have to factor in non-optional monthly subscription. But GW2 has an expansion (Path of Fire) for the same price of $30, and it gives 5 new zones and mounts as new system. And also the living story maps (each equally big to a normal DLC from ESO) if you log in the month they come out playable when you own the expansion they come out in. Granted I prefer ESO as game (they overtuned the difficulty in GW2 in my opinion, not as suitable to my playstyle anymore). But I have to admit GW2 gives a LOT more for the same price and doesn't have a non-optional subscription either.Edited by Orticia on May 12, 2018 2:53PM3 -
Radinyn✭✭✭✭✭I just find it funny that Steam calls it DLC. I wonder why Zenimax hasn't taken Valve to court over this. After all if Valve can call it DLC then I am sure a judge would agree with them. Sadly we don't have Games Workshop I mean Zenimax loving to sue people funds to make them accountable for it.
That's because DLC definition is different within both of them
Valve calls really everything the game with seperate purchase a DLC.
Zenimax calls only some of it.
Some even call every update a DLC.
Valve calls everything DLC because it is. Just because Zenimax calls only some of it, doesn't mean they are still not legally correct in doing so. As I don't have the funds to see if I am correct or not, it will never be proven and Zenimax knows this since they know nobody will take them to court and no lawyer will ever take this pro bono like someone did with Games Workshop.
Then again, if a lawyer ever does take it pro bono and wins, that is a HUGE part in their portfolio.
To be fair they would pay so much and get an army of lawyers, just like Valve, and they would both have almost same chances. World of law doesn't have much to do with that whole thing. They can call their content however they want as long as they don't offend anyone.0 -
Davor✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just find it funny that Steam calls it DLC. I wonder why Zenimax hasn't taken Valve to court over this. After all if Valve can call it DLC then I am sure a judge would agree with them. Sadly we don't have Games Workshop I mean Zenimax loving to sue people funds to make them accountable for it.
That's because DLC definition is different within both of them
Valve calls really everything the game with seperate purchase a DLC.
Zenimax calls only some of it.
Some even call every update a DLC.
Valve calls everything DLC because it is. Just because Zenimax calls only some of it, doesn't mean they are still not legally correct in doing so. As I don't have the funds to see if I am correct or not, it will never be proven and Zenimax knows this since they know nobody will take them to court and no lawyer will ever take this pro bono like someone did with Games Workshop.
Then again, if a lawyer ever does take it pro bono and wins, that is a HUGE part in their portfolio.
To be fair they would pay so much and get an army of lawyers, just like Valve, and they would both have almost same chances. World of law doesn't have much to do with that whole thing. They can call their content however they want as long as they don't offend anyone.
A lot of us have been offended. Me included. Either we accept or should move on. Since I am here I have accepted it. It still doesn't mean it's right, morally or legally. I know it's wrong but it's an acceptable wrong I can handle.Not my quote but I love this saying
"I would pay It for support. But since they choosed we are just numbers and not customers, i dont mind if game and zos goes to oblivion"0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Fixed this for youSeraphayel wrote: »Like literally people who hate here should really look how other MMOs suck people's money
Nothing to do with hate, Summerset and Chapters in general are most likely a rip off for $30 when compared to other MMORPGs. I bought Morrowind because I really wanted it even for the high price, Summerset couldn't convince me at all, at least not for $30. I will buy it for $10 in 6-12 months though.
From an objective and non-biased standpoint my point of view every Chapter feels like a major disappointment when compared to ESOs competitors.
Just compare a $30 WoW Legion or FF XIV Stormblood to a $30 Summerset. For the first you get 5 times the contents you get for the latter.
And if you want to compare WoW and FF XIV, add their subscription that you have to pay for playing them to the cost. And comparing WoW to any new MMO is not so good now because of how old it is and how easy it is to make content for it compared to other games RN, just because of technology.
Why should I add their sub? If you want new stuff in ESO you need to pay for it. There are no free content updates.
And why can't I compare a WoW expansion to ESOs Chapter? Final Fantasy can do the same and was (re)released the same year as ESO. Guild Wars 2 is buy to play as ESO and just look at their expansions, they are MASSIVE as well. And bring 9 new specs per expansion plus half a dozen maps and new mechanics. For the same price of a Chapter that adds one single zone.
This is just looking for excuses to buy the super overpriced Chapters. I did buy one of them for the full price and it was a lot of fun but compared to any of WoWs, GW2s or FFXIVs expansions the ESO Chapters are content wise a joke.Edited by Seraphayel on May 12, 2018 5:48PMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0 -
Sting864✭✭✭✭TelvanniWizard wrote: »You see, when the game started, they said that every piece of new content, all DLC´s would be available for free to suscribers, i.e., those with ESO plus. But last year they released Morrowind, labelling it "chapter", stating that chapters would not be included in ESO plus, forcing subscribers to buy the so called "chapter" if they wanted to enjoy some new content. It probably was economically profitable to them, because that is the new game model we have, 3 DLC´s a year and one "chapter" or expansion, wich is nothing more than an overglorified DLC that has to be bought even by subscribers.
I don't recall anyone saying this... and if they did, isn't "Morrowind" content accessible for free to ESO+ members now?? Maybe they said ESO+ members would have access to it as part of their membership... but not immediately....2 -
Radinyn✭✭✭✭✭TelvanniWizard wrote: »You see, when the game started, they said that every piece of new content, all DLC´s would be available for free to suscribers, i.e., those with ESO plus. But last year they released Morrowind, labelling it "chapter", stating that chapters would not be included in ESO plus, forcing subscribers to buy the so called "chapter" if they wanted to enjoy some new content. It probably was economically profitable to them, because that is the new game model we have, 3 DLC´s a year and one "chapter" or expansion, wich is nothing more than an overglorified DLC that has to be bought even by subscribers.
I don't recall anyone saying this... and if they did, isn't "Morrowind" content accessible for free to ESO+ members now?? Maybe they said ESO+ members would have access to it as part of their membership... but not immediately....
Yes Morrowind is now added to ESO+ so will Summerset be0 -
Hurbster✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Having a chapter coming out every year means they are never going to be like a WoW or FF14 xpac, unfortunately.
Then again, Cata made me quit WoW, didn't care about Pandaria and WoD was just rubbish, so maybe it's not a bad thing.So they raised the floor and lowered the ceiling. Except the ceiling has spikes in it now and the floor is also lava.0 -
zParallaxz✭✭✭✭✭DarkScatha wrote: »I pay for it so you guys can get future patches/free content etc. and can bash some more on the developers.
Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Chapters are simply DLC's ZO$ wants you to pay more money for. There is no better definition.
I can think of other, better definitions...
Chapters provide subscribers the opportunity to further support ZOS instead of just buying scammy Crown crates that people complain about... Since ESO+ members have access to all the DLC how else can they support the hobby they enjoy and still provide excellent content for all the filthy freeloaders??
Yeah because no other game can make money only off cosmetic items....... wait isn’t fortnite making bank???0 -
Radinyn✭✭✭✭✭zParallaxz wrote: »DarkScatha wrote: »I pay for it so you guys can get future patches/free content etc. and can bash some more on the developers.Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Chapters are simply DLC's ZO$ wants you to pay more money for. There is no better definition.
I can think of other, better definitions...
Chapters provide subscribers the opportunity to further support ZOS instead of just buying scammy Crown crates that people complain about... Since ESO+ members have access to all the DLC how else can they support the hobby they enjoy and still provide excellent content for all the filthy freeloaders??
Yeah because no other game can make money only off cosmetic items....... wait isn’t fortnite making bank???
That's the best idea, comparing the most popular game in the world right now to ESO.Edited by Radinyn on May 12, 2018 9:20PM0 -
Yusuf✭✭✭✭✭I'm sick of people misguidedly defending shady buisness-practices and just saying "This is how MMOs work" or "They're a buisness, they need to make money".
We are the consumers and not their *** bookkeepers. We shouldn't excuse them for misleading us on a product they sell.
Buying the base-game and ESO+ should be enough to get access to all the content in the game.0 -
zParallaxz✭✭✭✭✭zParallaxz wrote: »DarkScatha wrote: »I pay for it so you guys can get future patches/free content etc. and can bash some more on the developers.Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Chapters are simply DLC's ZO$ wants you to pay more money for. There is no better definition.
I can think of other, better definitions...
Chapters provide subscribers the opportunity to further support ZOS instead of just buying scammy Crown crates that people complain about... Since ESO+ members have access to all the DLC how else can they support the hobby they enjoy and still provide excellent content for all the filthy freeloaders??
Yeah because no other game can make money only off cosmetic items....... wait isn’t fortnite making bank???
That's the best idea, comparing the most popular game in the world right now to ESO.
I’m just giving u an idea that, wait for it...... developers should make a game that appeals to players not something “that follows their vision for the game” (aka Zos). Games can do this and still be profitable because players will support them every step of the way.
Also p.s they just lost another one of their big streams aka kodiEdited by zParallaxz on May 12, 2018 10:28PM0