Vote kick changes to stop the abuse of the dungeon finder system.

Merlin13KAGL · May 2018

Absolutely not!

@Anotherone773 there are going to be *** in game, unfortunately. You can't report them (CS will warn you about reports, and nothing will come of it) unless there is a specific violation of the ToS.

Any group member that's worth a damn will be able to help, guide, pick up the slack /help with weak areas to an extent, and also be able to gauge the situation.

IMO, if it's not going to work, and furthermore, if someone's gonna get kicked, there should always be due explanation why.

Often, if it's said in a reasonable fashion, that person will depart on their own, no hard feelings on either side.

The situation you're trying to resolve does involve either toxic people or complete idiots. If they can't explain the issue, or make assumptions, or use RDF for extremes that RDF was clearly not designed for, the only good news I can offer is that it's never your fault.

Some people will always find a way to abuse a system. We just have to hope there are more useful ones out there than there are selfish and self serving.

Kuramas9tails · May 2018

Yes with a few minor changes(see comments)

Lynx7386 wrote: »

If more of these pug morons were capable of doing the role they signed up for, maybe we wouldn't have to kick them.

Bruh, I was voted to be kicked one time when I didn't die at all, had good DPS and can solo the normal dungeon on my max level (over 1K CP) and because I was only level 44, I was being voted to kick. My boyfriend was in group and shook his head. Him and I could two man it as is, we just wanted the random queue XP.

WhiteNoiseMaker · May 2018

Yes, they are needed and overdue!

JinMori wrote: »

So many bits of dishonesty here.

*snip*

Third: superiority complex? You know what that's called?It's called ad hominem, because you attack the person rather then the argument they are making, 40 k inflated? You know nothing dude, you can get 40 k dps in a group pretty easily, and pretty much no one is making an argument that you need 30 k dps to complete content, but most of these people don;t even do 15k.

So, what i get from you is that you are very dishonest in making arguments.

I'm going to call your bluff. I'll even record this. We can meet at my guildhouse or yours. Full boss dummy with the six million health, combat metrics on, no one buffing you, show me you can do 40K DPS over a 1-2 min cycle. I want to see this supposedly sustained DPS benchmark you claim to be able to accomplish.

JinMori · May 2018

Absolutely not!

WhiteNoiseMaker wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

So many bits of dishonesty here.

*snip*

Third: superiority complex? You know what that's called?It's called ad hominem, because you attack the person rather then the argument they are making, 40 k inflated? You know nothing dude, you can get 40 k dps in a group pretty easily, and pretty much no one is making an argument that you need 30 k dps to complete content, but most of these people don;t even do 15k.

So, what i get from you is that you are very dishonest in making arguments.

I'm going to call your bluff. I'll even record this. We can meet at my guildhouse or yours. Full boss dummy with the six million health, combat metrics on, no one buffing you, show me you can do 40K DPS over a 1-2 min cycle. I want to see this supposedly sustained DPS benchmark you claim to be able to accomplish.

You missed IN A GROUP. Read better next time.

Also, you can get 40 k solo, if you are very very good on 6 mil.

Iv'e got a parse on the 3 mil dummy on stamblade, didn;t record on 6 mil but it was above 40 k.

[img]file:///C:/Users/User/Documents/Elder%20Scrolls%20Online/pts/Screenshots/Screenshot_20180420_185634.png[/img]

Dapper Dinosaur · May 2018

Absolutely not!

Politeness never cost you anything.

@WhiteNoiseMaker Time. Checkmate. Being polite and trying to explain for the 12th time what someone is getting killed by instead of booting them can cost your group another 5 minutes while they die again, when you can give them the long-overdue boot instead.

Ajaxandriel · May 2018

Yes with a few minor changes(see comments)

Anotherone773 wrote: »

1) You cannot vote kick anyone in the first 10 minutes of a dungeon UNLESS they go offline.

It needs 2 changes also. One to the Vet LFG system and one to the Daily Pledge system

- You must reach CP 200 before being able to enlist for Vet Look-For-Group
- One can check his daily Undauntable Pledge like the rest of the group, even if he replaces someone and haven't done the first bosses.

Anotherone773 · May 2018

Yes, they are needed and overdue!

JinMori wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Violynne wrote: »

I've not used the dungeon finder tool, but it appears to me it needs some work.

PUG setup should be based on a punch sheet. Those looking to run a dungeon would set up a PUG request, and then fill in requirements for the slots the maker wants filled. For example, they may create 3 slots of DPS, or 2 slots DPS, 1 slot Healer, etc.

Example of a punch sheets:
First one:
Slot Leader: Tank - CP720 - 6 runs of Veteran
Slot 2: Healer - CP720 - Minimum of 2 runs of Veteran
Slot 3: DPS - CP720 - Minimum of 5 runs of Veteran
Slot 1: DPS - CP720 - Minimum of 5 runs Veteran
Purpose: Loot

Second one:
Slot Leader: DPS - CP50 - No experience
Slot 2: Any - no minimum
Slot 3: Any - no minimum
Slot 4: Any - no minimum
Purpose: Learning/Experience

This would allow players to apply to a punch sheet. The PUG maker can then opt to accept or deny the recipient.

The game would verify the number of runs done by the player to ensure the minimum is met.

Once the PUG is formed, no group members can be kicked. If the leader leaves because they're dissatisfied with their selection, a 1 week penalty would be applied. PUG leaders should never quit the group they personally selected.

Players should also be allowed a personal rating list of every other player they grouped with. They can then rate the other players from 1-5 stars, so that if they see these players grouped in future PUGs, they can determine if they want to join with that player again and the star system will remind them of their worth to the group

This list is only viewable to the player and does not affect the PUG system nor is it a rating average system. Each rating is visible only to the person's list. This will help people so they don't join a group with a player they didn't like.

Once the PUG is formed, the punch list is set up to accept. Each player must either accept the group or leave it (without punishment, as this is done before entering the dungeon). Once all accepted, the group is formed.

With this system, everyone takes responsibility for their own grouping. Vote kicks are removed from the game, and anyone who leaves the group is served a 48 hour penalty. Sorry, but if you have a bad internet connection and got kicked that way, you have to accept this punishment because a bad internet connection isn't fair to the rest of the group.

This system would be fair to everyone.

Randomizing a group of people and hoping for a good outcome has never worked out well.

It is an interesting alternate Idea. The basis of your idea is basically like a group finder tool instead of a forced luck of the draw that the dungeon finder is now. So basically i queue for say N Fungal Grotto II as group leader and i set requirements of what a group member must meet to queue into my group and when they request to join, i can either accept or deny them. But im stuck with the group i picked because i am the one that set the requirements. Is that pretty much the jest of it?

If so it would be a good in addition to the random dungeon finder. The thing i like about random is i like the luck of the draw rather than people who meet some ridiculous requirement. Its challenging not playing with a bunch of people who ran dungeon 400 times and people of different skill levels. I like a challenge. Easy stuff bores me. But it sounds like it would be a good tool to have...for everyone.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Violynne wrote: »

I've not used the dungeon finder tool, but it appears to me it needs some work.

Then, no offense, but you can't possibly understand either extreme of the situation.

The fact that you're asking for 48hr / 1wk penalties makes this quite obvious.

And the odds of getting the same individual somewhere down the line in another random is minor - the client-viewable only list would have to be huge, and would probably never get accessed.

The really good bad ones get /ignored. The really good ones get guild invites and friend requests.

On the contrary, not having used the system @Violynne has a very unique view. Its not as biased as people who have used the dungeon finder system. You know, the whole outside perspective thing. Sure the ban needs major adjustment. I think a 15 minute quit penalty or so is fine. You could add a max number of times you can quit your own group per day or something.

Hard to be biased when you are unfamiliar with any situation.

You can be experienced without bias - there are legit circumstances where this functionality is necessary.

Being in one of those situations and suddenly realizing the need and debating on whether you're ready for your 1 week penalty is the type of thing that only experience can provide.

Ignorance doesn't mean the impossibility of no good ideas, but it doesn't change that it's still ignorance. (Which,by itself is not a bad thing, before anyone gets all up-in-arms).

The time was a little excessive, it doesnt mean the whole idea should be trashed. I thought it was a good idea, personally. It just needed some adjustments. The principle was sound though.

@Merlin13KAGL Concerning this post:

First @Violynne, I want to clarify. Fresh perspective is a powerful thing, so I am not trying to discredit the potential here.
The goal should ultimately be for a system that is useful and just for all.

You seem like you are willing to give people a reasonable chance and that is great. You are not part of the problem, but leaving it as is, is not the solution either. The system is heavily abused and ive met some really newbie friendly nice vet players that are really helpful in dungeons. The problem is they are choked out by an excessive amount of *** that abuse the system. And that needs to stop.

You have to be really bad for me to vote to kick you. I mean you cant just be bad at DPS or tanking or healing. You have to be not trying or offline. So you have to be like completely dead weight before i will consider kicking you. It has to be major with no hope for improvement. Not " you only do X dps, your gone". But there are so many like that, that will literally look at your weapon/armor( or if your lucky wait to see what abilities you use on the trash) and be like nope, not meta, your gone.

mongoLC wrote: »

How about just grouping people around the same level cp and adjusting the dungeon for it.
Nothing worse than getting stuck with a 180 who thinks snipe is good dps.

So here is the problem. The problem isnt that someone thinks snipe is good dps, the problem is you dont think it is, therefore they are bad and shouldnt be allowed in your PUG. I can parse 18k using snipe on a 3 mil dummy and only using injection, LA and HA . 2 abilities and normal attacks. Open world im doing ST damage of 30-40k on normal mobs( not mudcrabs) and i only use a bow. Here is the kicker... im not using a maelstrom bow. Im using a hundings bow. 3 pieces of my gear( excluding jewels which are also purple) is purple. Im not using poison, and im using trash stam pots only. And a bonus FYI, i do it all on one bar. My back bar is utility. Takes like 15 seconds to kill a mudcrab on my back bar.

The irony is i watched someone solo a trial boss with 22k dps. So all these inflated numbers that elitist throw out of you must do 30k or 40k or 50k dps to do content is complete BS. Just like in wow and rift where elitist say the same thing and average people with average dps complete the content every day, ESO is no different. You dont need to do 30k dps to run content in this game. A group doing 25k dps per damage dealer is sufficient and you can get through most content with 20k per damage dealer. That whole 30k-40k dps is nonsense elitists players make up because they have a superiority complex and want to feel like the average person isnt good enough to complete content while they are.

So many bits of dishonesty here.

FIrst: maelstrom bow doesn't even increase the damage from snipe light and heacy attack and poison injection, here's the kicker... sure dude.

Second: you watched a video were someone was soloing a boss with 22 k dps, and? So what honestly, tat's a build specifically for solo, meaning you will sacrifice dps for defense and healing, and you are comparing it to a full dps build? So dishonest, and anyway, most of these bad players aren't even at 15 k dps.

Third: superiority complex? You know what that's called?It's called ad hominem, because you attack the person rather then the argument they are making, 40 k inflated? You know nothing dude, you can get 40 k dps in a group pretty easily, and pretty much no one is making an argument that you need 30 k dps to complete content, but most of these people don;t even do 15k.

So, what i get from you is that you are very dishonest in making arguments.

First: you missed the point. ( i use volley btw so it would actually help my dps), the point is i can do 18k dps on snipe not even using BiS gear( i should of made that part more clear, maybe drawn a picture)

Second: Again you missed the point( so another picture?) The point is that if someone can solo a trial boss with 22k dps, then it is perfectly reasonable to assume, even if the boss in question was a normal mode boss and then boss we are now talking about is the vet mode boss, that if you add another 6-8 dps that also do 22k dps each, you can clear everything in the game. The first argument that will come next is " that isnt enough to get on the leaderboards!" but most people dont give a rat's ass about leaderboards. The entire point is you dont need 30k plus dps to clear content in this game. Yet i see so many people say, if you dont do 30k( or some other arbitrary number) then your not good enough to run X. which is a lie.

Third: Except i didnt attack anyone. I merely stated a fact about a group of people and a trait common to that group. So if you found that offensive, then that is your problem for taking offense at something that wasnt directed at you personally. I should note their is a difference between a vet player and an elitist player. You can be one and not the other or you can be both. My comments are directed at elitists, not vets. Elitists are toxic players who think they are superior to everyone else and that no one is worthy of playing with them unless they meet their requirements. Vets are just experienced players.

And yes i can hit 40k ST on trash, quite regularly in open world with snipe( followed by injection). You might be able to get 40k dps in a group pretty easily but not everyone strives to be as awesome as you, in fact i bet you dollars to donuts a majority of players could give two squats about achieving anymore dps than what is necessary to kill stuff. And yes i see post all the time about you need x dps to do this and x dps to do that and if your not doing at least Y dps your doing it wrong and you shouldnt even queue/ be in end game content...and every one of those numbers is above 29k.

Most stuff in game can be cleared with 15k dps, a large majority with 20k dps, and everything with 25k dps. any more than 25k isnt needed for anything but epeen enlargement...i mean leaderboards.

smacx250 · May 2018

Other( see comments)

I guess I’d rather see changes aimed at reducing the conflicts that cause kicks then make the kicks more costly. Something along the lines of a “reason” added to the finder to better group like minded players. I might even use the finder if such a feature existed!

DHale · May 2018

I have gotten kicked on the last boss a few times so they can bring in a friend to get a helm. Last boss kicking appears to be a thing that could be stopped.

JinMori · May 2018

Absolutely not!

Anotherone773 wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Violynne wrote: »

I've not used the dungeon finder tool, but it appears to me it needs some work.

PUG setup should be based on a punch sheet. Those looking to run a dungeon would set up a PUG request, and then fill in requirements for the slots the maker wants filled. For example, they may create 3 slots of DPS, or 2 slots DPS, 1 slot Healer, etc.

Example of a punch sheets:
First one:
Slot Leader: Tank - CP720 - 6 runs of Veteran
Slot 2: Healer - CP720 - Minimum of 2 runs of Veteran
Slot 3: DPS - CP720 - Minimum of 5 runs of Veteran
Slot 1: DPS - CP720 - Minimum of 5 runs Veteran
Purpose: Loot

Second one:
Slot Leader: DPS - CP50 - No experience
Slot 2: Any - no minimum
Slot 3: Any - no minimum
Slot 4: Any - no minimum
Purpose: Learning/Experience

This would allow players to apply to a punch sheet. The PUG maker can then opt to accept or deny the recipient.

The game would verify the number of runs done by the player to ensure the minimum is met.

Once the PUG is formed, no group members can be kicked. If the leader leaves because they're dissatisfied with their selection, a 1 week penalty would be applied. PUG leaders should never quit the group they personally selected.

Players should also be allowed a personal rating list of every other player they grouped with. They can then rate the other players from 1-5 stars, so that if they see these players grouped in future PUGs, they can determine if they want to join with that player again and the star system will remind them of their worth to the group

This list is only viewable to the player and does not affect the PUG system nor is it a rating average system. Each rating is visible only to the person's list. This will help people so they don't join a group with a player they didn't like.

Once the PUG is formed, the punch list is set up to accept. Each player must either accept the group or leave it (without punishment, as this is done before entering the dungeon). Once all accepted, the group is formed.

With this system, everyone takes responsibility for their own grouping. Vote kicks are removed from the game, and anyone who leaves the group is served a 48 hour penalty. Sorry, but if you have a bad internet connection and got kicked that way, you have to accept this punishment because a bad internet connection isn't fair to the rest of the group.

This system would be fair to everyone.

Randomizing a group of people and hoping for a good outcome has never worked out well.

It is an interesting alternate Idea. The basis of your idea is basically like a group finder tool instead of a forced luck of the draw that the dungeon finder is now. So basically i queue for say N Fungal Grotto II as group leader and i set requirements of what a group member must meet to queue into my group and when they request to join, i can either accept or deny them. But im stuck with the group i picked because i am the one that set the requirements. Is that pretty much the jest of it?

If so it would be a good in addition to the random dungeon finder. The thing i like about random is i like the luck of the draw rather than people who meet some ridiculous requirement. Its challenging not playing with a bunch of people who ran dungeon 400 times and people of different skill levels. I like a challenge. Easy stuff bores me. But it sounds like it would be a good tool to have...for everyone.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Violynne wrote: »

I've not used the dungeon finder tool, but it appears to me it needs some work.

Then, no offense, but you can't possibly understand either extreme of the situation.

The fact that you're asking for 48hr / 1wk penalties makes this quite obvious.

And the odds of getting the same individual somewhere down the line in another random is minor - the client-viewable only list would have to be huge, and would probably never get accessed.

The really good bad ones get /ignored. The really good ones get guild invites and friend requests.

On the contrary, not having used the system @Violynne has a very unique view. Its not as biased as people who have used the dungeon finder system. You know, the whole outside perspective thing. Sure the ban needs major adjustment. I think a 15 minute quit penalty or so is fine. You could add a max number of times you can quit your own group per day or something.

Hard to be biased when you are unfamiliar with any situation.

You can be experienced without bias - there are legit circumstances where this functionality is necessary.

Being in one of those situations and suddenly realizing the need and debating on whether you're ready for your 1 week penalty is the type of thing that only experience can provide.

Ignorance doesn't mean the impossibility of no good ideas, but it doesn't change that it's still ignorance. (Which,by itself is not a bad thing, before anyone gets all up-in-arms).

The time was a little excessive, it doesnt mean the whole idea should be trashed. I thought it was a good idea, personally. It just needed some adjustments. The principle was sound though.

@Merlin13KAGL Concerning this post:

First @Violynne, I want to clarify. Fresh perspective is a powerful thing, so I am not trying to discredit the potential here.
The goal should ultimately be for a system that is useful and just for all.

You seem like you are willing to give people a reasonable chance and that is great. You are not part of the problem, but leaving it as is, is not the solution either. The system is heavily abused and ive met some really newbie friendly nice vet players that are really helpful in dungeons. The problem is they are choked out by an excessive amount of *** that abuse the system. And that needs to stop.

You have to be really bad for me to vote to kick you. I mean you cant just be bad at DPS or tanking or healing. You have to be not trying or offline. So you have to be like completely dead weight before i will consider kicking you. It has to be major with no hope for improvement. Not " you only do X dps, your gone". But there are so many like that, that will literally look at your weapon/armor( or if your lucky wait to see what abilities you use on the trash) and be like nope, not meta, your gone.

mongoLC wrote: »

How about just grouping people around the same level cp and adjusting the dungeon for it.
Nothing worse than getting stuck with a 180 who thinks snipe is good dps.

So here is the problem. The problem isnt that someone thinks snipe is good dps, the problem is you dont think it is, therefore they are bad and shouldnt be allowed in your PUG. I can parse 18k using snipe on a 3 mil dummy and only using injection, LA and HA . 2 abilities and normal attacks. Open world im doing ST damage of 30-40k on normal mobs( not mudcrabs) and i only use a bow. Here is the kicker... im not using a maelstrom bow. Im using a hundings bow. 3 pieces of my gear( excluding jewels which are also purple) is purple. Im not using poison, and im using trash stam pots only. And a bonus FYI, i do it all on one bar. My back bar is utility. Takes like 15 seconds to kill a mudcrab on my back bar.

The irony is i watched someone solo a trial boss with 22k dps. So all these inflated numbers that elitist throw out of you must do 30k or 40k or 50k dps to do content is complete BS. Just like in wow and rift where elitist say the same thing and average people with average dps complete the content every day, ESO is no different. You dont need to do 30k dps to run content in this game. A group doing 25k dps per damage dealer is sufficient and you can get through most content with 20k per damage dealer. That whole 30k-40k dps is nonsense elitists players make up because they have a superiority complex and want to feel like the average person isnt good enough to complete content while they are.

So many bits of dishonesty here.

FIrst: maelstrom bow doesn't even increase the damage from snipe light and heacy attack and poison injection, here's the kicker... sure dude.

Second: you watched a video were someone was soloing a boss with 22 k dps, and? So what honestly, tat's a build specifically for solo, meaning you will sacrifice dps for defense and healing, and you are comparing it to a full dps build? So dishonest, and anyway, most of these bad players aren't even at 15 k dps.

Third: superiority complex? You know what that's called?It's called ad hominem, because you attack the person rather then the argument they are making, 40 k inflated? You know nothing dude, you can get 40 k dps in a group pretty easily, and pretty much no one is making an argument that you need 30 k dps to complete content, but most of these people don;t even do 15k.

So, what i get from you is that you are very dishonest in making arguments.

First: you missed the point. ( i use volley btw so it would actually help my dps), the point is i can do 18k dps on snipe not even using BiS gear( i should of made that part more clear, maybe drawn a picture)

Second: Again you missed the point( so another picture?) The point is that if someone can solo a trial boss with 22k dps, then it is perfectly reasonable to assume, even if the boss in question was a normal mode boss and then boss we are now talking about is the vet mode boss, that if you add another 6-8 dps that also do 22k dps each, you can clear everything in the game. The first argument that will come next is " that isnt enough to get on the leaderboards!" but most people dont give a rat's ass about leaderboards. The entire point is you dont need 30k plus dps to clear content in this game. Yet i see so many people say, if you dont do 30k( or some other arbitrary number) then your not good enough to run X. which is a lie.

Third: Except i didnt attack anyone. I merely stated a fact about a group of people and a trait common to that group. So if you found that offensive, then that is your problem for taking offense at something that wasnt directed at you personally. I should note their is a difference between a vet player and an elitist player. You can be one and not the other or you can be both. My comments are directed at elitists, not vets. Elitists are toxic players who think they are superior to everyone else and that no one is worthy of playing with them unless they meet their requirements. Vets are just experienced players.

And yes i can hit 40k ST on trash, quite regularly in open world with snipe( followed by injection). You might be able to get 40k dps in a group pretty easily but not everyone strives to be as awesome as you, in fact i bet you dollars to donuts a majority of players could give two squats about achieving anymore dps than what is necessary to kill stuff. And yes i see post all the time about you need x dps to do this and x dps to do that and if your not doing at least Y dps your doing it wrong and you shouldnt even queue/ be in end game content...and every one of those numbers is above 29k.

Most stuff in game can be cleared with 15k dps, a large majority with 20k dps, and everything with 25k dps. any more than 25k isnt needed for anything but epeen enlargement...i mean leaderboards.

The fact is that your argument is based on a massive overstatement of the actual facts, most of these "elitists" don't care if you are below them in dps, they just want you to do enough to be able to complete the dungeon, less then 15 k is not enough for vet dungeon, 40 k + is only really needed in vet trials, but of course, people will be happier if you perform better then the required, and the fact is that a lot of player are massively underperforming, therefore a kick system is required, do your job properly,and no one will kick you.

Your argument seems to be based on a hate of good players, not actually what they are saying, and you are using examples like, you need to be on the leaderboards, or do more then 30 k dps to complete a vet dungeon as what actual good players are saying, which is not true 90 % of the time, wich is why i said you are being dishonest.

Also, Passive aggressivness won;t get you anywere, it's the same as ad hominem, which you seem to use quite a bit. If you need to make those kinds of things maybe it's because your actual argument is not very good, therefore you need to shame the other, doesn't work on me.

About the first point, you said in your post, snipe light and heavy attacks, and poison injection paired with maelstrom bow,and now you are trying to wiggle waggle your way out of this, by saying that volley would have increased you dps, yes, so what? It's not what you used, therefore the point about the bow is redundant.

Everything with 25 K? can you clear vet trials with 25 k dps? can you do hard mode trials with 25k? arena? The more difficult hard mode? no you don't, again dishonest argument.

The second argument is about how a tank killed a trial boss, you do realize that in a group you have roles, to clear the dungeon faster and more easily? Which is why you don;t use such a tank, because it's gonna be a tank that doesn;t support others because it's all centered on him being able to both tank and do dps? And you use this as an argument about dps? Again dishonest argument.

Third, ad hominem is attacking the person rather then the argument, saying things like, any more than 25k isnt needed for anything but epeen enlargement...i mean leaderboards (basically calling someone nerd), this is an ad hominem attack, because you attack the person rather then the argument, and it's pathetic, and it tells me pretty much all i need to know.

i am not offended, i just find your argument dishonest and frankly stupid.

Finally, the majority of good players aren't asking you to do at least 30 k dps etc, they just want you to do enough to do it, if you are not doing enough, then you will be kicked, hence changing the kick system is stupid, if you wanna stay in the group, do at least enough to be in it.

Azuramoonstar · May 2018

Other( see comments)

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

a party finder function wouldn't lessen the duty finder pool at all. ff14 has both, and neither is small.

We'll assume that people that would get kicked would be the same as never having been queued in the first place.

Now:
300 people queue for Vet. 100 of them are CP600. 100 of them are CP200. 100 of them are CP10.

All three have a queue with 300 people in the mix

After:
300 of the same people queue for Vet
100 of those people filter CP600+ (That leaves 100 people for their queue, which is fine, as it's what they wanted in the first place.) 50 of those people would have still tried to run a 200+ run for some content. 20 of those would have attempted a CP10+ run. So before, they would have had between 100 and 300 people to group with. Now it's 100.

100 more filter 200+ 50 of those people would have still tried a CP10+ run. Before they would have had between 100-250 people to group with. Now it's 100.

Then there's the CP99's. Before, they would have had 170 people to group with. Now they have 100.

Filtering out will certainly lower the numbers available, moreso for the lesser experienced, lower CP groups than for the higher groups (and the higher groups won't be affected, because that's the very reason they're filtering in the first place.)

Of course the pool will be smaller - that's what filtering does.

Too small to get a complete? Maybe, maybe not. But when your long queue becomes even longer, because people have removed themselves from it, it will become obvious which group this would negatively affect the most.

i've played ff14 for 5 years, it has a duty finder (random group finder) with themed roulette that gives daily bonuses, specific queues for content. As well as a party finder tool that allows you to set up groups that you can set rules on.

Just about every MMO has these tools and queues don't change. The people who want to use the duty finder will use it, and those who want to use party finder will use it.

Id suggest experiencing more MMO before claiming things. I've played 30+ mmo with these tools and it helps people who enjoy relying on random grouping tools to do dungeons.

I think ESO can benefit from a party finder tool, would make grouping easier for me in the long run.

Priyasekarssk · May 2018

Other( see comments)

Anotherone773 wrote: »

The random group finder in this game is heavily abused by some to use as their own personal group tool at the expense of others. The system is heavily exploited especially in vet dungeons. This leaves more and more of the player base with a bad experience and discourages the use of the RGF system for many people. In other words, because this abuse goes unchecked, it creates problems instead of solving them.

I would change how the system works as follows:

1) You cannot vote kick anyone in the first 10 minutes of a dungeon UNLESS they go offline.

2)A position can only be replaced once during a dungeon unless that person goes offline or quits the dungeon. So if Bob is replace by George, you are stuck with George for the rest of the dungeon. However Jane can be replace by Chris.

3)Verbally abusing people in a dungeon in order to get them to quit so you can replace them is a bannable offense.

4)If you vote to kick someone( either vote yes or initiate the vote) you get a 30 minute penalty timer before you can queue again. This timer starts when you exit the dungeon you voted to kick from NOT from the time you vote kick. So make sure its worth replacing someone.

If you are picky who you run dungeons with, make some friends and join/start a guild. This is what guilds and friend lists are for. Use them. The dungeon finder is not your tool to find people to play with who meet your personal requirements.

Would you agree to these changes?

Only one thing is required for me. If I leave within first 2 mins of dungeon , make myself to queue again without penalty or reduce penalty to 1-2 minutes.
For normal dungeons I dont even care what people doing. Even if they does nothing, I solo it. But , I hate to players on low CP levels especially DDs on vet hard DLC dungeons. I know its not going to end well, when I am doing 90 percent of group dps and these pugs are only expecting some veteran player will carry them through the dungeon.

Make2k15 · May 2018

Absolutely not!

Just let the kicked out person re-queue to different group from the front of the queue without wait once. If he gets kicked out again then he will re queue from the back of the queue to prevent the abuse of the system. Problem solved.

zaria · May 2018

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Politeness never cost you anything.

@WhiteNoiseMaker Time. Checkmate. Being polite and trying to explain for the 12th time what someone is getting killed by instead of booting them can cost your group another 5 minutes while they die again, when you can give them the long-overdue boot instead.

This, note that doing an dungeon with an weak but cooperative group is fun.
Learned healing that way before harder normals was locked for low level players.

Has dropped out of normal dungeons because nobody respond to food check in chat and they don't know mechanic in dungeons you have to follow it in normal.

The main benefit of max cp is no more random dungeons

You do dungeons for gear, achievements and fun.

Jayman1000 · May 2018

Other( see comments)

I voted other because I agree the dungeoun finder + vote kick needs change. I don't like your proposed changes though. Not being able to kick anyone in the first 10 minutes.... so what about abusive/trolling players? What about players being afk (takes a looong time to go idle and get kicked from server). Your suggestion doesn't solve this; so what are we then just gonna wait 10 min to kick that player??? that doesn't work man.

No, the real change we need has to be an improved dungeon finder that allows people to customize their search vastly more in detail. This will enable people to assign up for the just the type of dungeon they want. Only want to play with cp690 players? Well put that in as a criteria in the dungeon and they wont be grouped with lvl33 players, and consequently won't vote to kick said lvl33 players. Expand this for a number of other criterias too: people wanting to do normal dungeons, wishing all dd but no dedicated healer or tank roles.

Being able to specify the exact type of players you want to group with allows people to find likeminded individuals and as such much less likely to initiate a votekick, unless there is proper reason for it (offline, afk, trolling, really bad/ineffecient players (yes that's a fair reason to kick)) etc etc.

Above would solve all. Git to it ZOS!

phileunderx2 · May 2018

Absolutely not!

I have pugged many a dungeon and have never been vote kicked. And rarely have voted to kick anyone. Usually if there is a kick initiated it is because someone is afk. So I don't see the system as is as a problem.

Merlin13KAGL · May 2018

Absolutely not!

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

a party finder function wouldn't lessen the duty finder pool at all. ff14 has both, and neither is small.

We'll assume that people that would get kicked would be the same as never having been queued in the first place.

Now:
300 people queue for Vet. 100 of them are CP600. 100 of them are CP200. 100 of them are CP10.

All three have a queue with 300 people in the mix

After:
300 of the same people queue for Vet
100 of those people filter CP600+ (That leaves 100 people for their queue, which is fine, as it's what they wanted in the first place.) 50 of those people would have still tried to run a 200+ run for some content. 20 of those would have attempted a CP10+ run. So before, they would have had between 100 and 300 people to group with. Now it's 100.

100 more filter 200+ 50 of those people would have still tried a CP10+ run. Before they would have had between 100-250 people to group with. Now it's 100.

Then there's the CP99's. Before, they would have had 170 people to group with. Now they have 100.

Filtering out will certainly lower the numbers available, moreso for the lesser experienced, lower CP groups than for the higher groups (and the higher groups won't be affected, because that's the very reason they're filtering in the first place.)

Of course the pool will be smaller - that's what filtering does.

Too small to get a complete? Maybe, maybe not. But when your long queue becomes even longer, because people have removed themselves from it, it will become obvious which group this would negatively affect the most.

i've played ff14 for 5 years, it has a duty finder (random group finder) with themed roulette that gives daily bonuses, specific queues for content. As well as a party finder tool that allows you to set up groups that you can set rules on.

Just about every MMO has these tools and queues don't change. The people who want to use the duty finder will use it, and those who want to use party finder will use it.

Id suggest experiencing more MMO before claiming things. I've played 30+ mmo with these tools and it helps people who enjoy relying on random grouping tools to do dungeons.

I think ESO can benefit from a party finder tool, would make grouping easier for me in the long run.

@Azuramoonstar awesome!

Fairly irrelevant, in this but, really...awesome.

I'd suggest going back over the suggestions made in this thread about this MMO, specifically the one regarding punch cards and filtering of group finder, because that is what the response was about.

This MMO and the suggested application. I'm guessing the players in FF14 that don't opt to duty finder and party finder, probably don't make it into the queue hmmm?

Because higher levels filtering out desired content will effectively remove them from the queue for lower levels.

The example above spells it out.

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Politeness never cost you anything.

@WhiteNoiseMaker Time. Checkmate. Being polite and trying to explain for the 12th time what someone is getting killed by instead of booting them can cost your group another 5 minutes while they die again, when you can give them the long-overdue boot instead.

@Dapper Dinosaur one could also call this* courtesy to your fellow teammates (and to the person struggling, to be perfectly fair), which may actually be construed as politeness. *this being the removal of the party member, that is.

(The inversion of this, to allow something to continue indefinitely that has zero chance of completion, improvement, learning and only serves to cause frustration and irritation would be considered quite rude.)

Keeping quiet and being excessively tolerant is not synonymous with politeness. Honesty about the situation on the group side, and self removal on the individuals' side would be the polite thing to do. And indeed, it does cost nothing.

Again, huge difference between "group needs a little help" and "never gonna happen with current makeup." The first one's a courtesy most Vets have no problem assisting with. The second helps no one.

SickDuck · May 2018

Absolutely not!

Group finder is piece of crab but vote to kick is fine. It should be used more if anything else, and people gathering excessive amount of kicks should get some penalty using GF not the other way round.

Slick_007 · May 2018

Absolutely not!

Violynne wrote: »

I've not used the dungeon finder tool, but it appears to me it needs some work.

PUG setup should be based on a punch sheet. Those looking to run a dungeon would set up a PUG request, and then fill in requirements for the slots the maker wants filled. For example, they may create 3 slots of DPS, or 2 slots DPS, 1 slot Healer, etc.

thats called make your own group before you use the tool. simples!

Itzmichi · May 2018

Yes, they are needed and overdue!

They definitly need to rework the system but I think most of the stated points are not very logical as you would punish the innocent as well when someone for example just queue up as a tank but is a DD. Would make the whole group suffer.

Maybe something like a pre check if someone as a tank or heal or dps has the required skills / gear to fit the role. Pretty much like the skill advisor but for the rgf tool.

SquareSausage · May 2018

Absolutely not!

Carebear vs Elitist

Fight

DieAlteHexe · May 2018

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

NovaMarx wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

If anything, the people who are toxic towards their random group mates - and/or have an issue with being paired up with lower level/CP players - are the ones who should not be using the dungeon finder, and they should be the ones playing with friends/guildies so that they can control who they are playing with.

I'm beyond tired of this argument. Let me break it down for you.

1. I am in 4 PVE guilds, 3 of which are near max capacity. Nothing is happening in any guild chats the vast majority of the time. Nobody is asking if anyone wants to farm gear, nobody is running trials (normal or vet), nobody is looking to do pledges, nobody is looking to get dungeon skins or motifs, nobody is even looking to do a skyshard or lorebook group. Sure, you'll see one of these things very occasionally, but for about 80% of the time I'm logged in and can see the chat from all these channels, it's just either completely dead across all channels or there will be a little banter that has nothing to do with running stuff, and this is in FOUR PVE GUILDS. "Just run with guildies" is not a valid point when nobody in 4 PVE guilds is making any attempt to collect players to do anything, and when I post something like "anyone want to farm SPC/Ebon/Whateverset", it's nothing but empty air waves for a response.

2. Some people (myself included) can only play at off-hours when the already generally uncohesive population is cut to one-tenth.

3. "Make more friends then". This depends on what kind of person you are on multiple levels. Your task-orientation, your standards for behavior, and your schedule all govern which people could potentially become your friends. If you're a guy that loves being rowdy, has little to no standards for behavior, volume, or skill level, and plays a lot in primetime, your friends list will be much larger than mine since I have high standards for behavior, courtesy, and skill level, I only run with people when I need to collect/complete something quickly and solo otherwise, and can only play in the wee hours of the morning.

"Just use guilds/friends to avoid the problems of the group finder" does not work for either side of the argument, and if people would just use whatever critical-thinking skills they have, this would have been realized and shut down a long time ago. Between schedules, incompatible personalities/skill levels, different goals that everyone is working on at any given point meaning working on someone elses' is a personal sacrifice, this argument should be considered the Poster-Boy for "easier said than done."

I am in PVE RP guilds (and RP and trading guilds) that are all very active, and people are constantly playing together - everything from PvE/PvP content to normal dungeons and trials. If your guilds are or feel dead/inactive you should consider leaving them and joining new guilds. There are so many guilds out there!

I would never say anything about "making more friends", as I am very well aware of how different people are in regards to their respective introversion or extroversion. But again, this is where either you join guilds to make it easier to connect with others, OR you use the Zone chat. There are always people (especially in the capitol cities) spamming the chat with LFM or LFG, which IMO is one of the better ways to find people that fit your "criteria".

As for what time you play, that of course can have affect on how many and what kind of players are online. But as a person who also plays in the off hours, I do not see this as an issue on the matter. If anything, I am just glad anyone is actually using the dungeon finder at these random times

Not to get too personal, but it seems your focus lies mainly on the issues of guilds and the social aspect of the game. Rarely do people choose to stay in inactive guilds, or in guilds where they don't feel they can properly connect with others. This is an MMO after all - so being "social" is kind of a must, especially if you want to do dungeons, PvP and general end-game content. ESO was my first ever MMO (have been playing since PC beta), and I definitely had to cross some personal boundaries in regards to communicating in the game, but it can be done.

But anyways, best of luck in the future - hope you get your guild situation sorted

pretty much this.

I have autism, and i had no real issue making friends in-game and networking with people. Easiest thing is simply help people and ask for help in return.

hell even start a guild around an interest, and look for people of similar interest. I met my boyfriend in my guild on ff14 by talking to him about games. nearly 6 years together and lived with him for 2 years come june 1ts.

idk why mmo went from very social games to anti-social. the "i have a real life" mantra really should die as everyone has a life outside of the game. I met people who had full time jobs/families that could play 5 hours a night. I also met people who play 2 hours a night simple because they shared a system, or just simply only wanted to play 2 hours a night.

really wish people would stop make petty excuses on why they can't meet people and get stuff done game has a large player base that is fairly active at all hours. i play 5pm-5am CST/CDT and see chat very active, I've also play 5am-5pm and again see the chat fairly active.

Just a thought; some folk have disorders that make socialising problematic. Some folk want to avoid the drama. Some folks have disabilities that make them less than optimal for grouping up and they don't want to ask for special treatment. There are reasons that aren't "petty", at least to those experiencing them.

Azuramoonstar · May 2018

Other( see comments)

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

NovaMarx wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

If anything, the people who are toxic towards their random group mates - and/or have an issue with being paired up with lower level/CP players - are the ones who should not be using the dungeon finder, and they should be the ones playing with friends/guildies so that they can control who they are playing with.

I'm beyond tired of this argument. Let me break it down for you.

1. I am in 4 PVE guilds, 3 of which are near max capacity. Nothing is happening in any guild chats the vast majority of the time. Nobody is asking if anyone wants to farm gear, nobody is running trials (normal or vet), nobody is looking to do pledges, nobody is looking to get dungeon skins or motifs, nobody is even looking to do a skyshard or lorebook group. Sure, you'll see one of these things very occasionally, but for about 80% of the time I'm logged in and can see the chat from all these channels, it's just either completely dead across all channels or there will be a little banter that has nothing to do with running stuff, and this is in FOUR PVE GUILDS. "Just run with guildies" is not a valid point when nobody in 4 PVE guilds is making any attempt to collect players to do anything, and when I post something like "anyone want to farm SPC/Ebon/Whateverset", it's nothing but empty air waves for a response.

2. Some people (myself included) can only play at off-hours when the already generally uncohesive population is cut to one-tenth.

3. "Make more friends then". This depends on what kind of person you are on multiple levels. Your task-orientation, your standards for behavior, and your schedule all govern which people could potentially become your friends. If you're a guy that loves being rowdy, has little to no standards for behavior, volume, or skill level, and plays a lot in primetime, your friends list will be much larger than mine since I have high standards for behavior, courtesy, and skill level, I only run with people when I need to collect/complete something quickly and solo otherwise, and can only play in the wee hours of the morning.

"Just use guilds/friends to avoid the problems of the group finder" does not work for either side of the argument, and if people would just use whatever critical-thinking skills they have, this would have been realized and shut down a long time ago. Between schedules, incompatible personalities/skill levels, different goals that everyone is working on at any given point meaning working on someone elses' is a personal sacrifice, this argument should be considered the Poster-Boy for "easier said than done."

I am in PVE RP guilds (and RP and trading guilds) that are all very active, and people are constantly playing together - everything from PvE/PvP content to normal dungeons and trials. If your guilds are or feel dead/inactive you should consider leaving them and joining new guilds. There are so many guilds out there!

I would never say anything about "making more friends", as I am very well aware of how different people are in regards to their respective introversion or extroversion. But again, this is where either you join guilds to make it easier to connect with others, OR you use the Zone chat. There are always people (especially in the capitol cities) spamming the chat with LFM or LFG, which IMO is one of the better ways to find people that fit your "criteria".

As for what time you play, that of course can have affect on how many and what kind of players are online. But as a person who also plays in the off hours, I do not see this as an issue on the matter. If anything, I am just glad anyone is actually using the dungeon finder at these random times

Not to get too personal, but it seems your focus lies mainly on the issues of guilds and the social aspect of the game. Rarely do people choose to stay in inactive guilds, or in guilds where they don't feel they can properly connect with others. This is an MMO after all - so being "social" is kind of a must, especially if you want to do dungeons, PvP and general end-game content. ESO was my first ever MMO (have been playing since PC beta), and I definitely had to cross some personal boundaries in regards to communicating in the game, but it can be done.

But anyways, best of luck in the future - hope you get your guild situation sorted

pretty much this.

I have autism, and i had no real issue making friends in-game and networking with people. Easiest thing is simply help people and ask for help in return.

hell even start a guild around an interest, and look for people of similar interest. I met my boyfriend in my guild on ff14 by talking to him about games. nearly 6 years together and lived with him for 2 years come june 1ts.

idk why mmo went from very social games to anti-social. the "i have a real life" mantra really should die as everyone has a life outside of the game. I met people who had full time jobs/families that could play 5 hours a night. I also met people who play 2 hours a night simple because they shared a system, or just simply only wanted to play 2 hours a night.

really wish people would stop make petty excuses on why they can't meet people and get stuff done game has a large player base that is fairly active at all hours. i play 5pm-5am CST/CDT and see chat very active, I've also play 5am-5pm and again see the chat fairly active.

Just a thought; some folk have disorders that make socialising problematic. Some folk want to avoid the drama. Some folks have disabilities that make them less than optimal for grouping up and they don't want to ask for special treatment. There are reasons that aren't "petty", at least to those experiencing them.

I have autism, and ADD, yet i have 0 issue networking with others, and finding like minded people to do content with in every mmo i've played. You should never use your disability as an excuse not to do things, it just enables bad habits, and bad behavior. If a persons disability is so bad that chatting via text is bad. MMO are not really for them, as some text communication will be necessary at some point in every mmo. Also if a person has physical disabilities that make there dps low, find people who are accepting and understanding. There was a guy in ff14 who has a birth defect that made his arms/hard deform and played with his feet. He was cheered on but a ton of people.

Everything you just stated is a petty excuse.

And it is sad to see people use there disabilities as a scapegoat. It just hurts others who have disabilities but go on to make friends and do content together. Disabilities are not some ball/chain or wall to hide behind.

Azuramoonstar · May 2018

Other( see comments)

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

a party finder function wouldn't lessen the duty finder pool at all. ff14 has both, and neither is small.

We'll assume that people that would get kicked would be the same as never having been queued in the first place.

Now:
300 people queue for Vet. 100 of them are CP600. 100 of them are CP200. 100 of them are CP10.

All three have a queue with 300 people in the mix

After:
300 of the same people queue for Vet
100 of those people filter CP600+ (That leaves 100 people for their queue, which is fine, as it's what they wanted in the first place.) 50 of those people would have still tried to run a 200+ run for some content. 20 of those would have attempted a CP10+ run. So before, they would have had between 100 and 300 people to group with. Now it's 100.

100 more filter 200+ 50 of those people would have still tried a CP10+ run. Before they would have had between 100-250 people to group with. Now it's 100.

Then there's the CP99's. Before, they would have had 170 people to group with. Now they have 100.

Filtering out will certainly lower the numbers available, moreso for the lesser experienced, lower CP groups than for the higher groups (and the higher groups won't be affected, because that's the very reason they're filtering in the first place.)

Of course the pool will be smaller - that's what filtering does.

Too small to get a complete? Maybe, maybe not. But when your long queue becomes even longer, because people have removed themselves from it, it will become obvious which group this would negatively affect the most.

i've played ff14 for 5 years, it has a duty finder (random group finder) with themed roulette that gives daily bonuses, specific queues for content. As well as a party finder tool that allows you to set up groups that you can set rules on.

Just about every MMO has these tools and queues don't change. The people who want to use the duty finder will use it, and those who want to use party finder will use it.

Id suggest experiencing more MMO before claiming things. I've played 30+ mmo with these tools and it helps people who enjoy relying on random grouping tools to do dungeons.

I think ESO can benefit from a party finder tool, would make grouping easier for me in the long run.

@Azuramoonstar awesome!

Fairly irrelevant, in this but, really...awesome.

I'd suggest going back over the suggestions made in this thread about this MMO, specifically the one regarding punch cards and filtering of group finder, because that is what the response was about.

This MMO and the suggested application. I'm guessing the players in FF14 that don't opt to duty finder and party finder, probably don't make it into the queue hmmm?

Because higher levels filtering out desired content will effectively remove them from the queue for lower levels.

The example above spells it out.

the way ff14 does it, is if you queue for a dungeon you auto use the duty finder option, there is no way to enter a group instance dungeon outside of that. Much how I see the dungeon finder work in ESO. A Party finder is you set up a party for a particular content, with a set of "rules", which is advertised on the party finder board. If a player meets the party rules they join the group, once the party is filled, they queue into the content.

neither raise or lower queues for the other.
You can't really force higher level people and lower level people to play together. But as a MMO vet of 14 years, neither of these options makes queues super slow. At some point, the devs will need to add incentives for higher levels to queue lower content. A queue roulette with daily rewards would help.

I read the suggestion, and I agree to it. I just think you lack MMO experience and shooting it down with petty reasoning. A lot of MMO have duty finder and party finder features, and they work. I just used ff14 as an example as I just quit the game recently, and sharing my experiences.

In no way have any of my queues in ff14 been slow from pf or df. And I restarted 25+ times which had me redoing the story (which requires a lot of group instanced dungeons.)

in fact duty finder type systems are fairly new to the MMO, as in early MMO you had to look for players and start a group. And was added for the "i have a real life" player. Which isn't bad, but should not be the only way to do content. Letting people start there own group is not bad, hard or slow. Just gotta have the will to do it.

Tommy_The_Gun · May 2018

Yes, they are needed and overdue!

Let me put it this way:
I play this game since 2014. I did all dungeons countless times. I have NEVER seen any one trying to deliberately sabotage dungeons runs, boss fights or trolling in general. IDK, maybe I am just lucky or something. Technically the whole system vote - kick was meant to prevent from such situations. But we all know how this system works. It is extremely easy to exploit it and abuse it - because as far as I know it only takes 2 votes to kick someone. And since the vote - kick decision is "final" (there is no going back) - the only thing that need to be changed is to make it so you need all 3 votes for "yes" in order to kick someone.

Azuramoonstar · May 2018

Other( see comments)

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Let me put it this way:
I play this game since 2014. I did all dungeons countless times. I have NEVER seen any one trying to deliberately sabotage dungeons runs, boss fights or trolling in general. IDK, maybe I am just lucky or something. Technically the whole system vote - kick was meant to prevent from such situations. But we all know how this system works. It is extremely easy to exploit it and abuse it - because as far as I know it only takes 2 votes to kick someone. And since the vote - kick decision is "final" (there is no going back) - the only thing that need to be changed is to make it so you need all 3 votes for "yes" in order to kick someone.

ya ff14 has the same issue.

And a lot of ppl find it is way to easy to manipulate, i think a 3 vote vs 2 vote system would be better.

I have seen ppl troll content in past MMO, it sucks.

DieAlteHexe · May 2018

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

NovaMarx wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

If anything, the people who are toxic towards their random group mates - and/or have an issue with being paired up with lower level/CP players - are the ones who should not be using the dungeon finder, and they should be the ones playing with friends/guildies so that they can control who they are playing with.

I'm beyond tired of this argument. Let me break it down for you.

1. I am in 4 PVE guilds, 3 of which are near max capacity. Nothing is happening in any guild chats the vast majority of the time. Nobody is asking if anyone wants to farm gear, nobody is running trials (normal or vet), nobody is looking to do pledges, nobody is looking to get dungeon skins or motifs, nobody is even looking to do a skyshard or lorebook group. Sure, you'll see one of these things very occasionally, but for about 80% of the time I'm logged in and can see the chat from all these channels, it's just either completely dead across all channels or there will be a little banter that has nothing to do with running stuff, and this is in FOUR PVE GUILDS. "Just run with guildies" is not a valid point when nobody in 4 PVE guilds is making any attempt to collect players to do anything, and when I post something like "anyone want to farm SPC/Ebon/Whateverset", it's nothing but empty air waves for a response.

2. Some people (myself included) can only play at off-hours when the already generally uncohesive population is cut to one-tenth.

3. "Make more friends then". This depends on what kind of person you are on multiple levels. Your task-orientation, your standards for behavior, and your schedule all govern which people could potentially become your friends. If you're a guy that loves being rowdy, has little to no standards for behavior, volume, or skill level, and plays a lot in primetime, your friends list will be much larger than mine since I have high standards for behavior, courtesy, and skill level, I only run with people when I need to collect/complete something quickly and solo otherwise, and can only play in the wee hours of the morning.

"Just use guilds/friends to avoid the problems of the group finder" does not work for either side of the argument, and if people would just use whatever critical-thinking skills they have, this would have been realized and shut down a long time ago. Between schedules, incompatible personalities/skill levels, different goals that everyone is working on at any given point meaning working on someone elses' is a personal sacrifice, this argument should be considered the Poster-Boy for "easier said than done."

I am in PVE RP guilds (and RP and trading guilds) that are all very active, and people are constantly playing together - everything from PvE/PvP content to normal dungeons and trials. If your guilds are or feel dead/inactive you should consider leaving them and joining new guilds. There are so many guilds out there!

I would never say anything about "making more friends", as I am very well aware of how different people are in regards to their respective introversion or extroversion. But again, this is where either you join guilds to make it easier to connect with others, OR you use the Zone chat. There are always people (especially in the capitol cities) spamming the chat with LFM or LFG, which IMO is one of the better ways to find people that fit your "criteria".

As for what time you play, that of course can have affect on how many and what kind of players are online. But as a person who also plays in the off hours, I do not see this as an issue on the matter. If anything, I am just glad anyone is actually using the dungeon finder at these random times

Not to get too personal, but it seems your focus lies mainly on the issues of guilds and the social aspect of the game. Rarely do people choose to stay in inactive guilds, or in guilds where they don't feel they can properly connect with others. This is an MMO after all - so being "social" is kind of a must, especially if you want to do dungeons, PvP and general end-game content. ESO was my first ever MMO (have been playing since PC beta), and I definitely had to cross some personal boundaries in regards to communicating in the game, but it can be done.

But anyways, best of luck in the future - hope you get your guild situation sorted

pretty much this.

I have autism, and i had no real issue making friends in-game and networking with people. Easiest thing is simply help people and ask for help in return.

hell even start a guild around an interest, and look for people of similar interest. I met my boyfriend in my guild on ff14 by talking to him about games. nearly 6 years together and lived with him for 2 years come june 1ts.

idk why mmo went from very social games to anti-social. the "i have a real life" mantra really should die as everyone has a life outside of the game. I met people who had full time jobs/families that could play 5 hours a night. I also met people who play 2 hours a night simple because they shared a system, or just simply only wanted to play 2 hours a night.

really wish people would stop make petty excuses on why they can't meet people and get stuff done game has a large player base that is fairly active at all hours. i play 5pm-5am CST/CDT and see chat very active, I've also play 5am-5pm and again see the chat fairly active.

Just a thought; some folk have disorders that make socialising problematic. Some folk want to avoid the drama. Some folks have disabilities that make them less than optimal for grouping up and they don't want to ask for special treatment. There are reasons that aren't "petty", at least to those experiencing them.

I have autism, and ADD, yet i have 0 issue networking with others, and finding like minded people to do content with in every mmo i've played. You should never use your disability as an excuse not to do things, it just enables bad habits, and bad behavior. If a persons disability is so bad that chatting via text is bad. MMO are not really for them, as some text communication will be necessary at some point in every mmo. Also if a person has physical disabilities that make there dps low, find people who are accepting and understanding. There was a guy in ff14 who has a birth defect that made his arms/hard deform and played with his feet. He was cheered on but a ton of people.

Everything you just stated is a petty excuse. And it is sad to see people use there disabilities as a scapegoat. It just hurts others who have disabilities but go on to make friends and do content together. Disabilities are not some ball/chain or wall to hide behind.

I guess you cannot understand that there are some things that are simply impossible for some people. Perhaps some day you will be able to see that.

Sure, there are ways to accommodate, work around etc. and that is always the best way to have things but it is not always possible for everyone. Please respect that.

Azuramoonstar · May 2018

Other( see comments)

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

NovaMarx wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

If anything, the people who are toxic towards their random group mates - and/or have an issue with being paired up with lower level/CP players - are the ones who should not be using the dungeon finder, and they should be the ones playing with friends/guildies so that they can control who they are playing with.

I'm beyond tired of this argument. Let me break it down for you.

1. I am in 4 PVE guilds, 3 of which are near max capacity. Nothing is happening in any guild chats the vast majority of the time. Nobody is asking if anyone wants to farm gear, nobody is running trials (normal or vet), nobody is looking to do pledges, nobody is looking to get dungeon skins or motifs, nobody is even looking to do a skyshard or lorebook group. Sure, you'll see one of these things very occasionally, but for about 80% of the time I'm logged in and can see the chat from all these channels, it's just either completely dead across all channels or there will be a little banter that has nothing to do with running stuff, and this is in FOUR PVE GUILDS. "Just run with guildies" is not a valid point when nobody in 4 PVE guilds is making any attempt to collect players to do anything, and when I post something like "anyone want to farm SPC/Ebon/Whateverset", it's nothing but empty air waves for a response.

2. Some people (myself included) can only play at off-hours when the already generally uncohesive population is cut to one-tenth.

3. "Make more friends then". This depends on what kind of person you are on multiple levels. Your task-orientation, your standards for behavior, and your schedule all govern which people could potentially become your friends. If you're a guy that loves being rowdy, has little to no standards for behavior, volume, or skill level, and plays a lot in primetime, your friends list will be much larger than mine since I have high standards for behavior, courtesy, and skill level, I only run with people when I need to collect/complete something quickly and solo otherwise, and can only play in the wee hours of the morning.

"Just use guilds/friends to avoid the problems of the group finder" does not work for either side of the argument, and if people would just use whatever critical-thinking skills they have, this would have been realized and shut down a long time ago. Between schedules, incompatible personalities/skill levels, different goals that everyone is working on at any given point meaning working on someone elses' is a personal sacrifice, this argument should be considered the Poster-Boy for "easier said than done."

I am in PVE RP guilds (and RP and trading guilds) that are all very active, and people are constantly playing together - everything from PvE/PvP content to normal dungeons and trials. If your guilds are or feel dead/inactive you should consider leaving them and joining new guilds. There are so many guilds out there!

I would never say anything about "making more friends", as I am very well aware of how different people are in regards to their respective introversion or extroversion. But again, this is where either you join guilds to make it easier to connect with others, OR you use the Zone chat. There are always people (especially in the capitol cities) spamming the chat with LFM or LFG, which IMO is one of the better ways to find people that fit your "criteria".

As for what time you play, that of course can have affect on how many and what kind of players are online. But as a person who also plays in the off hours, I do not see this as an issue on the matter. If anything, I am just glad anyone is actually using the dungeon finder at these random times

Not to get too personal, but it seems your focus lies mainly on the issues of guilds and the social aspect of the game. Rarely do people choose to stay in inactive guilds, or in guilds where they don't feel they can properly connect with others. This is an MMO after all - so being "social" is kind of a must, especially if you want to do dungeons, PvP and general end-game content. ESO was my first ever MMO (have been playing since PC beta), and I definitely had to cross some personal boundaries in regards to communicating in the game, but it can be done.

But anyways, best of luck in the future - hope you get your guild situation sorted

pretty much this.

I have autism, and i had no real issue making friends in-game and networking with people. Easiest thing is simply help people and ask for help in return.

hell even start a guild around an interest, and look for people of similar interest. I met my boyfriend in my guild on ff14 by talking to him about games. nearly 6 years together and lived with him for 2 years come june 1ts.

idk why mmo went from very social games to anti-social. the "i have a real life" mantra really should die as everyone has a life outside of the game. I met people who had full time jobs/families that could play 5 hours a night. I also met people who play 2 hours a night simple because they shared a system, or just simply only wanted to play 2 hours a night.

really wish people would stop make petty excuses on why they can't meet people and get stuff done game has a large player base that is fairly active at all hours. i play 5pm-5am CST/CDT and see chat very active, I've also play 5am-5pm and again see the chat fairly active.

Just a thought; some folk have disorders that make socialising problematic. Some folk want to avoid the drama. Some folks have disabilities that make them less than optimal for grouping up and they don't want to ask for special treatment. There are reasons that aren't "petty", at least to those experiencing them.

I have autism, and ADD, yet i have 0 issue networking with others, and finding like minded people to do content with in every mmo i've played. You should never use your disability as an excuse not to do things, it just enables bad habits, and bad behavior. If a persons disability is so bad that chatting via text is bad. MMO are not really for them, as some text communication will be necessary at some point in every mmo. Also if a person has physical disabilities that make there dps low, find people who are accepting and understanding. There was a guy in ff14 who has a birth defect that made his arms/hard deform and played with his feet. He was cheered on but a ton of people.

Everything you just stated is a petty excuse. And it is sad to see people use there disabilities as a scapegoat. It just hurts others who have disabilities but go on to make friends and do content together. Disabilities are not some ball/chain or wall to hide behind.

I guess you cannot understand that there are some things that are simply impossible for some people. Perhaps some day you will be able to see that.

Sure, there are ways to accommodate, work around etc. and that is always the best way to have things but it is not always possible for everyone. Please respect that.

Do you know how degrading it is for me to read that? I fully understand what it is like to have disabilities that make the most of basic of things hard. But i try to work above it like others do, and how others should. You can't live life under the yoke of a disability.

Nor can you use it as an excuse. Please understand and respect that.

You are just enabling bad behavior, and bad habits. People need to wake up to reality that their disability is not something that should define them, that they choose to do activities that don't agree with their disabilities that they need to make it work, and raise above there disability.

I play MMO to help with my autism, I used to not talk at all. But due to playing mmo, and having to communicate i worked hard to get better. Your comment is a nit of a slap in the face to my hard work.

Being an sjw is not a good thing, and to be frank.... none of what you said was the "petty excuses" i was referencing and you making my post to be about stuff that isn't. I just chose to say my stance on said comment.

No one should have the audacity to use there disability as a shield to stop them from participating in a game they choose to play.

Or simply put, don't choose games that don't agree with your disabilities if you are so weak willed to play despite the disability.

Sorry but I hate when people use disabilities as a shield, yoke and a ball and chain. It makes people like me seem weak.

DieAlteHexe · May 2018

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

NovaMarx wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

If anything, the people who are toxic towards their random group mates - and/or have an issue with being paired up with lower level/CP players - are the ones who should not be using the dungeon finder, and they should be the ones playing with friends/guildies so that they can control who they are playing with.

I'm beyond tired of this argument. Let me break it down for you.

1. I am in 4 PVE guilds, 3 of which are near max capacity. Nothing is happening in any guild chats the vast majority of the time. Nobody is asking if anyone wants to farm gear, nobody is running trials (normal or vet), nobody is looking to do pledges, nobody is looking to get dungeon skins or motifs, nobody is even looking to do a skyshard or lorebook group. Sure, you'll see one of these things very occasionally, but for about 80% of the time I'm logged in and can see the chat from all these channels, it's just either completely dead across all channels or there will be a little banter that has nothing to do with running stuff, and this is in FOUR PVE GUILDS. "Just run with guildies" is not a valid point when nobody in 4 PVE guilds is making any attempt to collect players to do anything, and when I post something like "anyone want to farm SPC/Ebon/Whateverset", it's nothing but empty air waves for a response.

2. Some people (myself included) can only play at off-hours when the already generally uncohesive population is cut to one-tenth.

3. "Make more friends then". This depends on what kind of person you are on multiple levels. Your task-orientation, your standards for behavior, and your schedule all govern which people could potentially become your friends. If you're a guy that loves being rowdy, has little to no standards for behavior, volume, or skill level, and plays a lot in primetime, your friends list will be much larger than mine since I have high standards for behavior, courtesy, and skill level, I only run with people when I need to collect/complete something quickly and solo otherwise, and can only play in the wee hours of the morning.

"Just use guilds/friends to avoid the problems of the group finder" does not work for either side of the argument, and if people would just use whatever critical-thinking skills they have, this would have been realized and shut down a long time ago. Between schedules, incompatible personalities/skill levels, different goals that everyone is working on at any given point meaning working on someone elses' is a personal sacrifice, this argument should be considered the Poster-Boy for "easier said than done."

I am in PVE RP guilds (and RP and trading guilds) that are all very active, and people are constantly playing together - everything from PvE/PvP content to normal dungeons and trials. If your guilds are or feel dead/inactive you should consider leaving them and joining new guilds. There are so many guilds out there!

I would never say anything about "making more friends", as I am very well aware of how different people are in regards to their respective introversion or extroversion. But again, this is where either you join guilds to make it easier to connect with others, OR you use the Zone chat. There are always people (especially in the capitol cities) spamming the chat with LFM or LFG, which IMO is one of the better ways to find people that fit your "criteria".

As for what time you play, that of course can have affect on how many and what kind of players are online. But as a person who also plays in the off hours, I do not see this as an issue on the matter. If anything, I am just glad anyone is actually using the dungeon finder at these random times

Not to get too personal, but it seems your focus lies mainly on the issues of guilds and the social aspect of the game. Rarely do people choose to stay in inactive guilds, or in guilds where they don't feel they can properly connect with others. This is an MMO after all - so being "social" is kind of a must, especially if you want to do dungeons, PvP and general end-game content. ESO was my first ever MMO (have been playing since PC beta), and I definitely had to cross some personal boundaries in regards to communicating in the game, but it can be done.

But anyways, best of luck in the future - hope you get your guild situation sorted

pretty much this.

I have autism, and i had no real issue making friends in-game and networking with people. Easiest thing is simply help people and ask for help in return.

hell even start a guild around an interest, and look for people of similar interest. I met my boyfriend in my guild on ff14 by talking to him about games. nearly 6 years together and lived with him for 2 years come june 1ts.

idk why mmo went from very social games to anti-social. the "i have a real life" mantra really should die as everyone has a life outside of the game. I met people who had full time jobs/families that could play 5 hours a night. I also met people who play 2 hours a night simple because they shared a system, or just simply only wanted to play 2 hours a night.

really wish people would stop make petty excuses on why they can't meet people and get stuff done game has a large player base that is fairly active at all hours. i play 5pm-5am CST/CDT and see chat very active, I've also play 5am-5pm and again see the chat fairly active.

Just a thought; some folk have disorders that make socialising problematic. Some folk want to avoid the drama. Some folks have disabilities that make them less than optimal for grouping up and they don't want to ask for special treatment. There are reasons that aren't "petty", at least to those experiencing them.

I have autism, and ADD, yet i have 0 issue networking with others, and finding like minded people to do content with in every mmo i've played. You should never use your disability as an excuse not to do things, it just enables bad habits, and bad behavior. If a persons disability is so bad that chatting via text is bad. MMO are not really for them, as some text communication will be necessary at some point in every mmo. Also if a person has physical disabilities that make there dps low, find people who are accepting and understanding. There was a guy in ff14 who has a birth defect that made his arms/hard deform and played with his feet. He was cheered on but a ton of people.

Everything you just stated is a petty excuse. And it is sad to see people use there disabilities as a scapegoat. It just hurts others who have disabilities but go on to make friends and do content together. Disabilities are not some ball/chain or wall to hide behind.

I guess you cannot understand that there are some things that are simply impossible for some people. Perhaps some day you will be able to see that.

Sure, there are ways to accommodate, work around etc. and that is always the best way to have things but it is not always possible for everyone. Please respect that.

Do you know how degrading it is for me to read that? I fully understand what it is like to have disabilities that make the most of basic of things hard. But i try to work above it like others do, and how others should. You can't live life under the yoke of a disability. Nor can you use it as an excuse. Please understand and respect that.

You are just enabling bad behavior, and bad habits. People need to wake up to reality that their disability is not something that should define them, that they choose to do activities that don't agree with their disabilities that they need to make it work, and raise above there disability.

I play MMO to help with my autism, I used to not talk at all. But due to playing mmo, and having to communicate i worked hard to get better. Your comment is a nit of a slap in the face to my hard work.

Being an sjw is not a good thing, and to be frank.... none of what you said was the "petty excuses" i was referencing and you making my post to be about stuff that isn't. I just chose to say my stance on said comment.

No one should have the audacity to use there disability as a shield to stop them from participating in a game they choose to play.

Or simply put, don't choose games that don't agree with your disabilities if you are so weak willed to play despite the disability.

Sorry but I hate when people use disabilities as a shield, yoke and a ball and chain. It makes people like me seem weak.

All I ask is that people respect, if not understand, that not everyone can operate at the same level. It is naught to do with "SJW" or anything of that ilk. It is about empathy, understanding, awareness that we are not all alike. Not using as a "shield", not using as an "excuse" but facing realities which vary wildly from person to person. It's grand that you are able to carry on as you do. A personal victory, indeed (no sarcasm to that at all, I'm serious, it is a victory for you and due to your hard work) and someone else not being able to do as you do has utterly nothing to do with making you look weak. But you are not everyone and if others wish to play an MMO and are not interfering with their fellow games, good on 'em.

I'm not sure how many people are using their disability(ies). I know quite a few people who don't even mention them, aside from if pushed to do something they either aren't comfortable with or simply cannot.

I'm sorry that you are taking that as a "slap in the face" as that's entirely the opposite of my intentions. I am not enabling anything here. I'm proffering a viewpoint that I think could be given more consideration. Some folk can overcome, some cannot. You can and whilst I'm glad for you, you aren't everyone.

Go well.

Yzalirk · May 2018

I take it that the OP gets kicked for being a bad player?