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So we are ok with the fact that 70% of the pvp population is nightblades?
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Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It doesn’t matter when the answer from the devs in terms of balance is „git gud“ followed by „expect some balancing next update”.
Personally I always detested running cheese. I might reconsider as the devs obviously don’t care themselves.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.6 -
dsalter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It doesn’t matter when the answer from the devs in terms of balance is „git gud“ followed by „expect some balancing next update”.
Personally I always detested running cheese. I might reconsider as the devs obviously don’t care themselves.
their responce to this question in one of their live Q&A parts to the whole NB population made me die alittle inside, devs shouldnt actually joke about that crap...PLEASE REPLY TO ME WITH @dsalter otherwise i'm likely to miss the reply if its not my own thread
EU - [Arch Mage Dave] Altmer Sorcerer
Fight back at the crates and boxes, together we can change things.2 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭For PC NA, NBs everywhere. Especially on AD... makes me cringe when they light attack bow spam. I guess OP meant AD PC NA.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel0 -
SwampRaider✭✭✭✭✭Heres the thing:
Stam NB: strong 1vxer
Mag NB: strong against zergs for tether bombingCharacter: Eros, Eros I I, The Paw of Woe
Class: Templar Healer/MagWarden/ Stam Sorc
Alliance: DC
Campaign: Vivec (pc/na)
Guardians of Daggerfall0 -
Zorgon_The_Revenged✭✭✭✭✭And the population will double when the changes to shadow image and twin shades goes live
Edited by Zorgon_The_Revenged on May 8, 2018 8:35AM0 -
DeliCreep✭✭✭Also in PvE almost every DD is magblade, it's totally not okay, but ZOS doesn't care, but we'll have more grind and increased crown store prices, yay.Immortal Redeemer1 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NBs are not 70% of the PvP population.
But those people who deny that NBs are the most commonly played class in Cyrodiil are likely NBS who are overly sensitive to any implication that they are OP.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.21 -
Slick_007✭✭✭✭✭
✭Osubaker33 wrote: »If you read my post im only talking about PVP. Games full population means nothing.
and yet your facts are still not facts unless you have some proof that everyone else is unaware of? and can show it5 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »NBs are not 70% of the PvP population.
But those people who deny that NBs are the most commonly played class in Cyrodiil are likely NBS who are overly sensitive to any implication that they are OP.
The Truth hurts.
I agree, it’s definitely not 70%, I’d wager closer to 40%. Maybe higher in battlegrounds and imperial city.1 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I say 30% at most 35% altogether on every platform.Joy_Division wrote: »NBs are not 70% of the PvP population.
But those people who deny that NBs are the most commonly played class in Cyrodiil are likely NBS who are overly sensitive to any implication that they are OP.
The Truth hurts.
I agree, it’s definitely not 70%, I’d wager closer to 40%. Maybe higher in battlegrounds and imperial city.
0 -
lassitershawn✭✭✭✭✭NBs are strong doubtless. I haven't PvPed much recently but @Derra stats on kills do indicate a preference for (but not majority of) NBs. When I go into battlegrounds I do notice that NBs seem to be the most popular.
In PvE not only are they the strongest magicka DPS but also the most self-reliant, having the best sustain with strong heals and self-buffs (especially minor berserk). This is especially important in the most recent trial (vAS HM) where the healers unfortunately cannot provide much in the way of support for the group. From what I've heard from top endgame raiders (have not been on PTS yet myself), they are also going to be dominant in vCR HM as well.
Whether or not they are OP is up for debate (personally I think they are strong but not OP) but I do NOT think that their popularity comes from a perception of them being OP (at least in general). Stealthy rogue type characters are almost always popular in games and I think most players that main Nightblade do so because they enjoy playing the class.William Thorne - EP Breton Sorcerer
Astrid Winterborn - EP Breton Warden
Erik Ironskin - EP Nord Dragonknight
Venasa Viri - EP Dunmer Nightblade
IR x8, GH x5, TTT x26 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭In battlegrounds NBs are the minority for me. I check each team before a match, and there's rarely more than 2 Nightblades out of all three teams. Templars and Wardens seem to be the more popular classes followed by sorcs and dragonknights.3 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »NBs are not 70% of the PvP population.
But those people who deny that NBs are the most commonly played class in Cyrodiil are likely NBS who are overly sensitive to any implication that they are OP.
The Truth hurts.
I agree, it’s definitely not 70%, I’d wager closer to 40%. Maybe higher in battlegrounds and imperial city.
How many are any good? I constantly see these large random numbers pulled out of thin air, but no mention of how terrible most of them are, and most of them are terrible. Damn is losing out on those easy kills because they cloak away to escape certain death THAT important to you lot?There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway5 -
H4RDFOX✭✭✭Osubaker33 wrote: »And yes I have one too, why wouldn't I? They are strong AF.
It really takes something away from pvp though when such a huge portion of the pvp populataion is playing one class.
Where is your evidence?#NoEasyProps1 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I'd ask for your source, but we both know you're just pulling numbers out of your ass.Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS2 -
Murador178✭✭✭✭int _{a}^{\infty }f(x)\,\mathrm {d} x=\lim _{\beta \to \infty }\int _{a}^{\beta }f(x)\,\mathrm {d} x,
{\displaystyle \int _{-\infty }^{b}f(x)\,\mathrm {d} x=\lim _{\alpha \to -\infty }\int _{\alpha }^{b}f(x)\,\mathrm {d} x} \int _{-\infty }^{b}f(x)\,\mathrm {d} x=\lim _{\alpha \to -\infty }\int _{\alpha }^{b}f(x)\,\mathrm {d} x und
{\displaystyle \int _{-\infty }^{\infty }f(x)\,\mathrm {d} x=\int _{-\infty }^{a}f(x)\,\mathrm {d} x+\int _{a}^{\infty }f(x)\,\mathrm {d} x} \int _{-\infty }^{\infty }f(x)\,\mathrm {d} x=\int _{-\infty }^{a}f(x)\,\mathrm {d} x+\int _{a}^{\infty }f(x)\,\mathrm {d} x mit beliebigem {\displaystyle a\in \mathbb {R} .} a\in \mathbb {R} .
{\displaystyle \int _{a}^{b}f(x)\,\mathrm {d} x=\lim _{\varepsilon \searrow 0}\int _{a+\varepsilon }^{b}f(x)\,\mathrm {d} x} \int _{a}^{b}f(x)\,\mathrm {d} x=\lim _{\varepsilon \searrow 0}\int _{a+\varepsilon }^{b}f(x)\,\mathrm {d} x bzw. {\displaystyle \displaystyle \int _{a}^{b}f(x)\,\mathrm {d} x=\lim _{\varepsilon \searrow 0}\int _{a}^{b-\varepsilon }f(x)\,\mathrm {d} x.} \displaystyle \int _{a}^{b}f(x)\,\mathrm {d} x=\lim _{\varepsilon \searrow 0}\int _{a}^{b-\varepsilon }f(x)\,\mathrm {d} x.
It's 70%!!!! U may disagree but im presenting facts here Edited by Murador178 on May 8, 2018 4:07PM2 -
Murador178✭✭✭✭Ok since this gets brought up every time - made up stats - lets look at pvp killcounter stats:
I can provide killcounter stats for PC-EU daggerfall covenant vivec roughly 40% soloing 30% zergsurfing 30% grpplay up to 6 peole since morrowind release:
31mio AP made
55000 kills
by classes killed:
19% templar
25% sorc
34% nightblade
16% dragonknight
6% warden
For PC-EU ebonheart pact roughly 50% solo 30% zergsurfing 20% grpplay up to 6 people since homestead:
43mio AP made
77000 kills
by classes killed:
22% templar
27% sorc
33% nightblade
16% dragonknight
2% warden
I´d argue based on these personal stats that nbs being overrepresented in pvp is not only a perception problem but also pvp relality (and sorcs to a lesser extend).
Also based on people i play with/talk to having similar stats (if they track them).
Whether that means if they´re OP or not i won´t comment on.
Player number killed is not representive - since u are playing a mSorc. That also explains low kill counter on Dks and wardens(reflect skills). Sorc has the best kit in the game to kill squishy medium armor builds. U would need to track classes seen and not killed.
Edit: I also die and kill more on my stamblade as on a tanky spec
Edited by Murador178 on May 8, 2018 4:14PM6 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »NBs are not 70% of the PvP population.
But those people who deny that NBs are the most commonly played class in Cyrodiil are likely NBS who are overly sensitive to any implication that they are OP.
The Truth hurts.
I agree, it’s definitely not 70%, I’d wager closer to 40%. Maybe higher in battlegrounds and imperial city.
How many are any good? I constantly see these large random numbers pulled out of thin air, but no mention of how terrible most of them are, and most of them are terrible. Damn is losing out on those easy kills because they cloak away to escape certain death THAT important to you lot?
[removed comment] The numbers aren’t random, check out Derra’s recent kill stats.
Is your class over represented? Yes. But I don’t really care what people play. So long as it’s fun for you. If someone else doesn’t like it, they are free to do something about it.
Is your class popular because it’s borderline overpowered? Probably? But again. I really don’t care. I don’t think nightblade needs a nerf, no more than you’ve already received.
Just because I state a few facts, you think I have a problem with it. Next patch magblade, magSorc and Stamwarden are meta, having 30%+ of the PVP population playing any one of those isn’t going to trigger me. People enjoy winning and play classes that win easily.Edited by ZOS_JesC on May 8, 2018 5:17PM1 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »NBs are not 70% of the PvP population.
But those people who deny that NBs are the most commonly played class in Cyrodiil are likely NBS who are overly sensitive to any implication that they are OP.
The Truth hurts.
I agree, it’s definitely not 70%, I’d wager closer to 40%. Maybe higher in battlegrounds and imperial city.
How many are any good? I constantly see these large random numbers pulled out of thin air, but no mention of how terrible most of them are, and most of them are terrible. Damn is losing out on those easy kills because they cloak away to escape certain death THAT important to you lot?
The same % as other classes.
There certainly are a lot of terrible templars and terrible sorcerers out there for sure. Yet that does not stop NBs (and other "enemy" classes) from whining about "unkillable BoL healbots" and shield-stacking does it? Everyone wants easy kills. Why do you suppose the stealth high burst damage archetype in all games is so popular?Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.1 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭You guys gotta keep in mind that those statistics are to be taken with a grain of salt. Kill statistics usually also mean that the recipient has the easiest time killing said class, on top of them being popular. So the fact that they’re popular on a kill statistic usually means nothing. It can just as well mean that the nb population is the easiest to kill in cyro.
I’m not denying that nbs are the most popular class though. I do agree that they are. Especially with the current PvE meta, it’s indisputable.
Everyone coming in here to play Skyrim 2 also picks nb cause it’s the closest to the ez mode bow 1 shot playstyle from Skyrim, it’s pretty obvious.
What players pick as their first class is very influenced by what their idea of a game ESO is when they start playing. Skyrim refugees pick nb. I, for example, didn’t come to eso because of Skyrim, I came because a friend wanted me to. So my first ever class was a mag sorc, because streak was resembling a skill from the main I had in a previous game, swtor.7 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I rarely fight other NB in BG its usually teams of Wardens and templars.Or Stamwarden cancer builds and a templar.In battlegrounds NBs are the minority for me. I check each team before a match, and there's rarely more than 2 Nightblades out of all three teams. Templars and Wardens seem to be the more popular classes followed by sorcs and dragonknights.
Fought a team last Night 2 magdk 1 magwarden 1 magplar.Both DK running Earthgore chasing you down.Cancerous if there is another NB its someone spamming snipes and bombard and running if you fight them alone.
2 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Murador178 wrote: »Ok since this gets brought up every time - made up stats - lets look at pvp killcounter stats:
I can provide killcounter stats for PC-EU daggerfall covenant vivec roughly 40% soloing 30% zergsurfing 30% grpplay up to 6 peole since morrowind release:
31mio AP made
55000 kills
by classes killed:
19% templar
25% sorc
34% nightblade
16% dragonknight
6% warden
For PC-EU ebonheart pact roughly 50% solo 30% zergsurfing 20% grpplay up to 6 people since homestead:
43mio AP made
77000 kills
by classes killed:
22% templar
27% sorc
33% nightblade
16% dragonknight
2% warden
I´d argue based on these personal stats that nbs being overrepresented in pvp is not only a perception problem but also pvp relality (and sorcs to a lesser extend).
Also based on people i play with/talk to having similar stats (if they track them).
Whether that means if they´re OP or not i won´t comment on.
Player number killed is not representive - since u are playing a mSorc. That also explains low kill counter on Dks and wardens(reflect skills). Sorc has the best kit in the game to kill squishy medium armor builds. U would need to track classes seen and not killed.
Edit: I also die and kill more on my stamblade as on a tanky spec
@Murador178
Actually it´s not. I generally try to end every fight one way or the other unless i get heavily outnumbered or my enemy runs away/forces a draw.
Since i run a build that has no NB counters slotted apart from curse (no streak, no rml) and rely on spellpower/speed potions my build is exceptionally bad at killing nbs.
The hardest class for me to kill (harder than DKs) are sorcs that know how to 123 shields - yet they´re my second most killed.
Also enemy class while in grp or zergsurfing is irrelevant. It´s curse finisher pulse/reach next target.
If you´re thinking about making an argument about different classes being represented by type of gameplay (ie more sorcs and nbs solo/roaming and dks/templar objective based) i´d like to proactively counter that argument with stats for my mNB:
PC-EU daggerfall covenant 10% solo/zergsurfing 90% in grp between 4 and 6 people around objectives since clockwork:
3 million ap made
7200 kills
by classes
20% templar
24% sorc
38% nightblade
14% dragonknight
4% warden
Generally when i play NB we have a stationary playstyle and fight until we win or die against higher numbers. That means we kill what´s available class wise. There are more nbs available than wardens or dks - you don´t want to hear it but it´s true.
Subjectively i´d even say the stats on my sorcs reaching back for a year+ favor nbs as they were less common back then than they are now - but that´s indeed purely subjective.
Also tracking classes seen hardly works - because nbs revolve around not being seen eh?
Edited by Derra on May 8, 2018 5:24PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
Murador178✭✭✭✭Murador178 wrote: »Ok since this gets brought up every time - made up stats - lets look at pvp killcounter stats:
I can provide killcounter stats for PC-EU daggerfall covenant vivec roughly 40% soloing 30% zergsurfing 30% grpplay up to 6 peole since morrowind release:
31mio AP made
55000 kills
by classes killed:
19% templar
25% sorc
34% nightblade
16% dragonknight
6% warden
For PC-EU ebonheart pact roughly 50% solo 30% zergsurfing 20% grpplay up to 6 people since homestead:
43mio AP made
77000 kills
by classes killed:
22% templar
27% sorc
33% nightblade
16% dragonknight
2% warden
I´d argue based on these personal stats that nbs being overrepresented in pvp is not only a perception problem but also pvp relality (and sorcs to a lesser extend).
Also based on people i play with/talk to having similar stats (if they track them).
Whether that means if they´re OP or not i won´t comment on.
Player number killed is not representive - since u are playing a mSorc. That also explains low kill counter on Dks and wardens(reflect skills). Sorc has the best kit in the game to kill squishy medium armor builds. U would need to track classes seen and not killed.
Edit: I also die and kill more on my stamblade as on a tanky spec
@Murador178
Actually it´s not. I generally try to end every fight one way or the other unless i get heavily outnumbered or my enemy runs away/forces a draw.
Since i run a build that has no NB counters slotted apart from curse (no streak, no rml) and rely on spellpower/speed potions my build is exceptionally bad at killing nbs.
The hardest class for me to kill (harder than DKs) are sorcs that know how to 123 shields - yet they´re my second most killed.
Also enemy class while in grp or zergsurfing is irrelevant. It´s curse finisher pulse/reach next target.
If you´re thinking about making an argument about different classes being represented by type of gameplay (ie more sorcs and nbs solo/roaming and dks/templar objective based) i´d like to proactively counter that argument with stats for my mNB:
PC-EU daggerfall covenant 10% solo/zergsurfing 90% in grp between 4 and 6 people around objectives since clockwork:
3 million ap made
7200 kills
by classes
20% templar
24% sorc
38% nightblade
14% dragonknight
4% warden
Generally when i play NB we have a stationary playstyle and fight until we win or die against higher numbers. That means we kill what´s available class wise. There are more nbs available than wardens or dks - you don´t want to hear it but it´s true.
Subjectively i´d even say the stats on my sorcs reaching back for a year+ favor nbs as they were less common back then than they are now - but that´s indeed purely subjective.
Also tracking classes seen hardly works - because nbs revolve around not being seen eh?
Nbs followed by sorcs are for sure the most played spec in cyrodil. But are wardens rly only 2-4% of the PvP population. If u read the forum QQ about stam warden u might think they are more like 40%
. 3 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Murador178 wrote: »Murador178 wrote: »Ok since this gets brought up every time - made up stats - lets look at pvp killcounter stats:
I can provide killcounter stats for PC-EU daggerfall covenant vivec roughly 40% soloing 30% zergsurfing 30% grpplay up to 6 peole since morrowind release:
31mio AP made
55000 kills
by classes killed:
19% templar
25% sorc
34% nightblade
16% dragonknight
6% warden
For PC-EU ebonheart pact roughly 50% solo 30% zergsurfing 20% grpplay up to 6 people since homestead:
43mio AP made
77000 kills
by classes killed:
22% templar
27% sorc
33% nightblade
16% dragonknight
2% warden
I´d argue based on these personal stats that nbs being overrepresented in pvp is not only a perception problem but also pvp relality (and sorcs to a lesser extend).
Also based on people i play with/talk to having similar stats (if they track them).
Whether that means if they´re OP or not i won´t comment on.
Player number killed is not representive - since u are playing a mSorc. That also explains low kill counter on Dks and wardens(reflect skills). Sorc has the best kit in the game to kill squishy medium armor builds. U would need to track classes seen and not killed.
Edit: I also die and kill more on my stamblade as on a tanky spec
@Murador178
Actually it´s not. I generally try to end every fight one way or the other unless i get heavily outnumbered or my enemy runs away/forces a draw.
Since i run a build that has no NB counters slotted apart from curse (no streak, no rml) and rely on spellpower/speed potions my build is exceptionally bad at killing nbs.
The hardest class for me to kill (harder than DKs) are sorcs that know how to 123 shields - yet they´re my second most killed.
Also enemy class while in grp or zergsurfing is irrelevant. It´s curse finisher pulse/reach next target.
If you´re thinking about making an argument about different classes being represented by type of gameplay (ie more sorcs and nbs solo/roaming and dks/templar objective based) i´d like to proactively counter that argument with stats for my mNB:
PC-EU daggerfall covenant 10% solo/zergsurfing 90% in grp between 4 and 6 people around objectives since clockwork:
3 million ap made
7200 kills
by classes
20% templar
24% sorc
38% nightblade
14% dragonknight
4% warden
Generally when i play NB we have a stationary playstyle and fight until we win or die against higher numbers. That means we kill what´s available class wise. There are more nbs available than wardens or dks - you don´t want to hear it but it´s true.
Subjectively i´d even say the stats on my sorcs reaching back for a year+ favor nbs as they were less common back then than they are now - but that´s indeed purely subjective.
Also tracking classes seen hardly works - because nbs revolve around not being seen eh?
Nbs followed by sorcs are for sure the most played spec in cyrodil. But are wardens rly only 2-4% of the PvP population. If u read the forum QQ about stam warden u might think they are more like 40% .
I still abandon my kill warden quests bc there are so few.
I think it´s more of an NA "problem".<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501
