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REMOVE THE POPULATION INDICATORS

  • Cuthceol
    Cuthceol
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    Just make it show the exact number of players , i dont see what the big issue is.

    never going to happen, then we'd know what the population cap is and ZO$ doesn't want us to know or they'd have replied to the dozens of requests for that info.
  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
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    REiiGN15 wrote: »
    I really do believe there are those who get on a certain alliance to just take a spot and basically not do anything to actually help that alliance when they have other characters on the winning alliance as their mains.

    I've been discovered.

    After coming home from an 8 hour workday, I got nothing better to do than log onto my DC toon I care nothing about, get zero AP while /sitchair at North Morrowind Gate, lose my EP ranking in the process as other people pass me, all so in 12 days if EP wins the campaign I can get purple rings of decon trash.
    Edited by Joy_Division on May 4, 2018 4:29PM
  • TheValar85
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    i have a better solution. No more Guest campain options. everyone should stick with their home campain. and its done. Including no one should be allowed to flip aliances account wide. You choose AD you stay AD, your home campain is Shor you stay at shor.

    Problem solved.
    GM Of The Lusty Argonian ERP
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  • TheValar85
    TheValar85
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    It wouldn't serve any purpose giving the exact number. Because even if they did and it said AD is at 110 and EP is at 96, you'll still come onto these forums and claim that AD is outnumbered and screwed because that number is inaccurate and the 96 EP are all running Cheat Engine.

    so you just addmited their crimes :D wee know that already.

    GM Of The Lusty Argonian ERP
    GM Of THe Alessia Dynasty PVP Guild
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  • Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
    Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
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    pcar944 wrote: »
    what would be nice is if the que was locked to whichever alliance has the least amount of members

    like a cap

    so if there is only 20 AD players on, EP and DC can only have 20 as well, as the lowest pop # grows, so it does for other alliances

    but that means opening up more servers so everyone can play, or something, more thought may be required

    BUT as far as seeing and not seeing bars - people with lower pop - especially when they watch the bars - will get distraught and turtle up if there isn't a PVP group/raid playing at the moment - anyone who has played for a while knows this is true - not being able to see the #'s is not a bad thing at all, especially since we can all agree - without knowing actual numbers or even ranges - they are meaningless anyway

    So how would you handle dwindling population do people get auto kicked from cyro if the enemy faction population drops?
    What if one faction doesn't play the server at all and its just 2 high populated factions playing there neither of them can play?

    This imo isn't the right way to go about it. As we suggested there should be a variable score evaluation based on population ratios.
    The problem isn't if one faction is slightly lower pop but when one faction is vastly over populated compared to both others making map control trivial.

    Here is the example we created as part of Dracast episode 5:
    (Note these are hypothetical populations you can change the colours around to any order what matters is the ratio of population.)
    c81MWBo.png


    @Solar_Breeze
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  • Sacredx
    Sacredx
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    Lets look at faction pop indicators in detail.

    The basics: There are 4 possible indicators for each faction pop, 1 bar, 2 bars, 3 bars and a lock. Going with common sense a lock means that the faction is full, or at 100%. So that leaves the bars. There are 3 bars so common sense again would say that each bar takes up an equal ratio. Therefore, assuming that zos have distributed the numbers in a logical manner the indicators should be as follows:

    1 bar = 0 to 33%
    2 bars = 33 to 66%
    3 bars = 66 to 99%
    Lock = 100%

    Pretty simple right??

    Now lets look at a common misconception that these pop indicators can be used to rebalance the score.
    • If one faction is just under the threshold of achieving 3 bars with 65% and the other has 3 bars with 67% is it fair to award the smaller faction more points?
    • Another example would be if there is a large number of players from one faction in IC. Is it fair to penalise that faction?
    • Another example is the pve aspect. Cyrodiil is not a pure pvp map so we cannot control if players decide to come in to collect shards or quests or achievements and offset the pvp side of things.

    Score balancing is not something that can simply be resolved using one basic tool. I agree that the score/rewards system for Cyrodiil needs a lot of work, potentially a whole new concept, but that is a whole different discussion outside this topic.
    PC NA PvP Oceanic
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  • Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
    Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
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    Sacredx wrote: »
    Lets look at faction pop indicators in detail.

    The basics: There are 4 possible indicators for each faction pop, 1 bar, 2 bars, 3 bars and a lock. Going with common sense a lock means that the faction is full, or at 100%. So that leaves the bars. There are 3 bars so common sense again would say that each bar takes up an equal ratio. Therefore, assuming that zos have distributed the numbers in a logical manner the indicators should be as follows:

    1 bar = 0 to 33%
    2 bars = 33 to 66%
    3 bars = 66 to 99%
    Lock = 100%

    Pretty simple right??

    Now lets look at a common misconception that these pop indicators can be used to rebalance the score.
    • If one faction is just under the threshold of achieving 3 bars with 65% and the other has 3 bars with 67% is it fair to award the smaller faction more points?
    • Another example would be if there is a large number of players from one faction in IC. Is it fair to penalise that faction?
    • Another example is the pve aspect. Cyrodiil is not a pure pvp map so we cannot control if players decide to come in to collect shards or quests or achievements and offset the pvp side of things.

    Score balancing is not something that can simply be resolved using one basic tool. I agree that the score/rewards system for Cyrodiil needs a lot of work, potentially a whole new concept, but that is a whole different discussion outside this topic.

    Why don't you think basing the score on a weighted ratio as I posted would be effective? It would make actions when all factions have a more equal population more rewarding
    @Solar_Breeze
    NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast Podcast)
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  • Anazasi
    Anazasi
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    It benefits no one weighted the way you suggested since the locks do not represent organized groups. with your Idea evals every 5 mins when locked and Drac (you can insert any group you would like if drac isn't what you want to read) sitting in fare farming half a faction while the rest of their faction groups take all the keeps. This follows along the same idea you had regarding resources it only benefits the faction with the most organized groups. The post was a request to either remove the icons completely or show actual numbers it had nothing to do with your advocacy of personal agendas regarding scoring. The reason is the locks mean nothing especially since they represent a number that has never been verified. As I have said, show me proof where ZOS has said each bar = this number of players and the discussion would be over. Of course I don't know or remember everything but to the best of my knowledge ZOS has never verified the actual numbers, nor has ZOS ever indicated how the lock mechanic actually works. Hence the 1 glimmer of indication was the patch note regarding cross faction quing.

    Honestly, the population and campaign mechanic is an abysmal failure due to lag and while we all hope the introduction of multi-core features resolves some of the lag it more than likely will not. Thus more campaigns should be opened with the same rule set as the current 30 day so players have more OPTIONS. Thus allowing ZOS to lower the overall population cap on the existing campaign reducing the poor experience most players endure.
  • Vilestride
    Vilestride
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    But we are weighing population on numbers alone. If a faction has equal people but less organization because it's mostly solo players or whatever then it deserves to be getting smashed on the scoreboard. There should be a system that mitigates population imbalance and 'night capping' uncontested. But not one that provides a handicap to factions with equal pop but poor map work.

    If a faction can dominate the map during prime time they deserve to be dominating there is no excuse.
    Edited by Vilestride on May 8, 2018 2:37AM
  • pcar944
    pcar944
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    Vilestride wrote: »
    But we are weighing population on numbers alone. If a faction has equal people but less organization because it's mostly solo players or whatever then it deserves to be getting smashed on the scoreboard. There should be a system that mitigates population imbalance and 'night capping' uncontested. But not one that provides a handicap to factions with equal pop but poor map work.

    If a faction can dominate the map during prime time they deserve to be dominating there is no excuse.

    I guess the only counter argument that can be made here is pugs people who don't join, but can faction switch to a winning alliance just because that's where organized groups are ATM and make AP surfing

    and this does happen more often then people would admit

    in this sence, 1 Tamriel killed Cyrodil
    One Tamriel killed PVP

    DC Magicka Orc Necromancer climbing those ranks ...
  • Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
    Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
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    pcar944 wrote: »
    Vilestride wrote: »
    But we are weighing population on numbers alone. If a faction has equal people but less organization because it's mostly solo players or whatever then it deserves to be getting smashed on the scoreboard. There should be a system that mitigates population imbalance and 'night capping' uncontested. But not one that provides a handicap to factions with equal pop but poor map work.

    If a faction can dominate the map during prime time they deserve to be dominating there is no excuse.

    I guess the only counter argument that can be made here is pugs people who don't join, but can faction switch to a winning alliance just because that's where organized groups are ATM and make AP surfing

    and this does happen more often then people would admit

    in this sence, 1 Tamriel killed Cyrodil

    The more pugs who join the winning faction the less populated it is of strong groups and so the harder it is for those groups to join. But I agree with you. That's why we also suggested that cyro be changed to account based. So you pick a home campaign and faction or your account. That would be the only one which you get rewards and items from but can still play others factions/campaigns and earn AP (just not "rewards")
    @Solar_Breeze
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  • Anazasi
    Anazasi
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    pcar944 wrote: »
    Vilestride wrote: »
    But we are weighing population on numbers alone. If a faction has equal people but less organization because it's mostly solo players or whatever then it deserves to be getting smashed on the scoreboard. There should be a system that mitigates population imbalance and 'night capping' uncontested. But not one that provides a handicap to factions with equal pop but poor map work.

    If a faction can dominate the map during prime time they deserve to be dominating there is no excuse.

    I guess the only counter argument that can be made here is pugs people who don't join, but can faction switch to a winning alliance just because that's where organized groups are ATM and make AP surfing

    and this does happen more often then people would admit

    in this sence, 1 Tamriel killed Cyrodil

    The more pugs who join the winning faction the less populated it is of strong groups and so the harder it is for those groups to join. But I agree with you. That's why we also suggested that cyro be changed to account based. So you pick a home campaign and faction or your account. That would be the only one which you get rewards and items from but can still play others factions/campaigns and earn AP (just not "rewards")

    I agree with you on this point.
  • Anazasi
    Anazasi
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    Vilestride wrote: »
    But we are weighing population on numbers alone. If a faction has equal people but less organization because it's mostly solo players or whatever then it deserves to be getting smashed on the scoreboard. There should be a system that mitigates population imbalance and 'night capping' uncontested. But not one that provides a handicap to factions with equal pop but poor map work.

    If a faction can dominate the map during prime time they deserve to be dominating there is no excuse.

    The last thing any faction as a whole needs to become known as is a farmable pug faction. Even though this may be true as far as it is recognized by the more senior players, It is not something new players need to read and then avoid a faction based on the overall community stigma.

    Recruiting and teaching new players is already hard enough. I just don't think the University of Taran could afford another statewide budget cut.
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