The Sun Sets for Wardens in Summerset

josiahva · May 2018

3 months? I am not touching warden again until they get rid of the garbage delayed-reaction skills...maybe its just me, but I dont want to watch animations for 3 seconds until my ability hits, I just want it to hit....and until they do that, I will never play a warden again regardless of their relative strength or weakness

YarYar · May 2018

Vercingetorix wrote: »

In a similar vein, stamina builds for all classes are often carbon-copies of one another. I often jokingly refer to stamina builds as the "weapon class" to my guildies because of how restrictive the stamina setup is for just about every class. I also feel that having a few class abilities on your bar isn't really unique - having 1 or 2 weapon abilities for a little extra utility or damage is fine, just as long as most of the combat is based around the class' abilities - THEN it is unique.

This isn't really a surprise considering all the class skills are mag based with a handful of stam morphs. I do wish there was a class or two that was set up the opposite way.

Vaoh · May 2018

Tryxus wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Wardens are fine. They are arguably one of the strongest classes in PVP, their DPS on the PTS is quite impressive if anyone bothered to look, and they are certainly better than average for for tanking and healing.

And with the change to two handed set weapons, wardens are only going to get stronger in PVP.

Nope - ZOS took away the only Warden class CC. Mag Warden will need to use Master Destro for Destructive Touch

I guess you might have meant Stam Warden, which is the only truly strong (and honestly OP) Warden spec? Yup, they’ll get buffed ....

- Flame/Shock Staff with Clench/Reach
- Vampirism Drain
- Or the new Psijic skill

Well yes, that’s literally every option even available.

Drain is a horrible CC, though it has its uses vs tanks in zerg v zerg fights.

Time Stop (well, the instant cast morph) will be the **only** way to CC on a Ice Staff Warden build

Flame/Shock Destructive Touch is the only decent option now unfortunately.

kylewwefan · May 2018

I dont know about all that. I have a blast playing my warden. I get asked about my build all the time. It’s not meta exactly. But it’s tuff and does decent.

I’m not trying to be in some serious raid guild though. And I do have all other classes to play as well. The vast majority of players I encounter are just looking to actually complete content. And for that, the warden does really good IMO.

The warden is great for easy peasy weekly rewards. Same as Templar and DK.

They could make the bear a little tougher though. He dies a lot.

SydneyGrey · May 2018

Magicka wardens are going to get an indirect buff with Summerset when staves start counting as two set pieces. I'm looking forward to that.

Tryxus · May 2018

kylewwefan wrote: »

They could make the bear a little tougher though. He dies a lot.

This

Compared to a Sorc and his/her pets, there really is no synergy between the Warden and his/her Guardian

Mitoice · May 2018

josiahva wrote: »

3 months? I am not touching warden again until they get rid of the garbage delayed-reaction skills...maybe its just me, but I dont want to watch animations for 3 seconds until my ability hits, I just want it to hit....and until they do that, I will never play a warden again regardless of their relative strength or weakness

Totally agree... im not sure if wardens are really good, but the slow animations are what keeps me from playing it, feels like fighting in slow motion!

Also DPS wardens are really not wanted on raids, probably because... pets are annoying and troublesome on Veteran raids.

Vercingetorix · May 2018

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Magicka wardens are going to get an indirect buff with Summerset when staves start counting as two set pieces. I'm looking forward to that.

@SydneyGrey It’s not a buff, moreso a complete wash. Since all classes are getting the same buff, the power gap between them remains the same. A Warden with a staff will still be inferior to a sorc, dk or nb with a staff.

It’s like giving everyone in the company the same raise, including the CEO - nobody gets richer than anyone else and the CEO remains the highest paid employee.

Thogard · May 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

ITT people that arent that good at playing Warden play up the class being dead.

Lmfao.

Why be warden?

Sorc has the better burst and execute
NB has better burst execute and survivability
Templars have better burst
DKs keep their leap

For PvP damage dealing, you are extremely subpar to the other mag classes. What's the best ability for a Magden?

In battlegrounds, healing is a horrible choice unless in a premade. Less so with a tank.

So essentially, Magden has to be a tank/healer for BGs... Which pays nothing and is really rather stupid when Pugging

Warden is by far the strongest class for small scale And group vs group PvP.

We’ve had to ban warden stacking because of how strong synchronized sub assault / deep fissures are.

jaws343 · May 2018

Vaoh wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Wardens are fine. They are arguably one of the strongest classes in PVP, their DPS on the PTS is quite impressive if anyone bothered to look, and they are certainly better than average for for tanking and healing.

And with the change to two handed set weapons, wardens are only going to get stronger in PVP.

Nope - ZOS took away the only Warden class CC. Mag Warden will need to use Master Destro for Destructive Touch

I guess you might have meant Stam Warden, which is the only truly strong (and honestly OP) Warden spec? Yup, they’ll get buffed ....

Meant both. I don't use shalks for a magicka CC on live right now anyways. Not reliable enough of a hit on a ranged warden build and I only rely on it for damage. Using destructive touch works without the Masters Staff as long as you aren't spamming it (which you shouldn't be). Besides, it is cheaper than Encase and its morphs and only costs 300 more magicka than Rune Prison. It's not really an expensive CC and it includes a dot component.

What will be really powerful for a Magden is the ability to run two 5 piece sets with skoria (or another full monster set). As it is right now, I am running 5 Wise mage on my front bar and 5 Jorvoulds on my back bar. Plan to switch Jorvolds with either Destruction Mastery or Necro to get a huge magicka pool and run both sets on both bars.

Vaoh · May 2018

jaws343 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Wardens are fine. They are arguably one of the strongest classes in PVP, their DPS on the PTS is quite impressive if anyone bothered to look, and they are certainly better than average for for tanking and healing.

And with the change to two handed set weapons, wardens are only going to get stronger in PVP.

Nope - ZOS took away the only Warden class CC. Mag Warden will need to use Master Destro for Destructive Touch

I guess you might have meant Stam Warden, which is the only truly strong (and honestly OP) Warden spec? Yup, they’ll get buffed ....

Meant both. I don't use shalks for a magicka CC on live right now anyways. Not reliable enough of a hit on a ranged warden build and I only rely on it for damage. Using destructive touch works without the Masters Staff as long as you aren't spamming it (which you shouldn't be). Besides, it is cheaper than Encase and its morphs and only costs 300 more magicka than Rune Prison. It's not really an expensive CC and it includes a dot component.

What will be really powerful for a Magden is the ability to run two 5 piece sets with skoria (or another full monster set). As it is right now, I am running 5 Wise mage on my front bar and 5 Jorvoulds on my back bar. Plan to switch Jorvolds with either Destruction Mastery or Necro to get a huge magicka pool and run both sets on both bars.

Wise Mage? And you don’t use Deep Fissure? Idk, we def play Mag Warden differently lol. That’s the first time I’ve heard of someone using Wise Mage/Jorvuld’s and also not slotting Deep Fissure as Mag Warden.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · May 2018

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Wardens are fine. They are arguably one of the strongest classes in PVP, their DPS on the PTS is quite impressive if anyone bothered to look, and they are certainly better than average for for tanking and healing.

I am not on the PTS as i play on Xbox so i have no idea but What changes were made that made their DPS impressive on PTS? I don't recall seeing anything in the patch notes that would indicate they gained DPS other than LA scaling which everyone is getting yes?

I just know that I am seeing parses in the mid 40s coming from magic wardens on PTS on 6 million dummies, which is pretty decent baring a few outliers. I think wardens are perhaps in a better position to benefit from LA scaling than other classes, because they can use sets like necro to get higher magic pools. I think sustain is also better than it was a year ago with more CP, new gear options, and better synergy usage. I also think wardens were judged perhaps too harshly on release and people didnt realize what they are capable of pulling. It's a bit of an unusual rotation, but the damage is there.

I am not going to sit here and tell you that a warden is going to beat a sorc or NB for pure damage, but frankly, I am not sure they should. That was not the design of the class. It was very clearly built to be utility based. Compare the lists of major minor buffs from Warden to Sorc, and the later is laughable.

jaws343 · May 2018

Vaoh wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Wardens are fine. They are arguably one of the strongest classes in PVP, their DPS on the PTS is quite impressive if anyone bothered to look, and they are certainly better than average for for tanking and healing.

And with the change to two handed set weapons, wardens are only going to get stronger in PVP.

Nope - ZOS took away the only Warden class CC. Mag Warden will need to use Master Destro for Destructive Touch

I guess you might have meant Stam Warden, which is the only truly strong (and honestly OP) Warden spec? Yup, they’ll get buffed ....

Meant both. I don't use shalks for a magicka CC on live right now anyways. Not reliable enough of a hit on a ranged warden build and I only rely on it for damage. Using destructive touch works without the Masters Staff as long as you aren't spamming it (which you shouldn't be). Besides, it is cheaper than Encase and its morphs and only costs 300 more magicka than Rune Prison. It's not really an expensive CC and it includes a dot component.

What will be really powerful for a Magden is the ability to run two 5 piece sets with skoria (or another full monster set). As it is right now, I am running 5 Wise mage on my front bar and 5 Jorvoulds on my back bar. Plan to switch Jorvolds with either Destruction Mastery or Necro to get a huge magicka pool and run both sets on both bars.

Wise Mage? And you don’t use Deep Fissure? Idk, we def play Mag Warden differently lol. That’s the first time I’ve heard of someone using Wise Mage/Jorvuld’s and also not slotting Deep Fissure as Mag Warden.

Oh, I use deep fissure. I just don't use it as a CC. I usually cast fletcher, lightning heavy attack, then deep fissure, hit the enemy with clench for the cc, and then hit them with a light attack, a bird/force pulse. The light attack, fissure, and bird/force pulse all hit around the same time. And the enemy is already CCd for the fissure hit, making it a far easier combo to land on more agile opponents.

And I've found that wise mage is oddly really strong in PVP. Guaranteed 8% damage boost for 10 seconds and you can keep this up for 100% of the time if you need. And outside of a Sorc or using the perfected Asylum staff, minor vulnerability is hard to come by. I use Jorvolds for now, with shields and major/minor buffs on my back bar for the extended duration, but it is admittedly the weakest part of my build. The change to Destruction Mastery or Necro will be a huge boost.

SydneyGrey · May 2018

Vercingetorix wrote: »

@SydneyGrey It’s not a buff, moreso a complete wash. Since all classes are getting the same buff, the power gap between them remains the same. A Warden with a staff will still be inferior to a sorc, dk or nb with a staff.
It’s like giving everyone in the company the same raise, including the CEO - nobody gets richer than anyone else and the CEO remains the highest paid employee.

I was thinking in terms of PvE. For PvE, it will be a buff. For PvP, it'll only be a buff versus stamina players, I suppose.

MLGProPlayer · May 2018

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Magicka wardens are going to get an indirect buff with Summerset when staves start counting as two set pieces. I'm looking forward to that.

And so is every other class. Their problem was always that they are like 15-20% weaker than the other classes, and that hasn't changed.

MLGProPlayer · May 2018

jypcy wrote: »

Insightful for highlighting the update from Gina, but wardens can already complete all the pve content this game has to offer. If the concern is higher dps numbers then everyone would just play nbs. Sure I wouldn’t mind some warden buffs, but the class isn’t dead. Especially since they continue to insist on making the class p2p for whatever reason, I’m perfectly fine if it’s not as powerful as those you get in the base game.

Most vet trial guilds will not let you use a magicka warden.

And why is it okay to sell a substandard product? WoW and GW2 sell new classes too and they are always conpetitive.

Vaoh · May 2018

jaws343 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Wardens are fine. They are arguably one of the strongest classes in PVP, their DPS on the PTS is quite impressive if anyone bothered to look, and they are certainly better than average for for tanking and healing.

And with the change to two handed set weapons, wardens are only going to get stronger in PVP.

Nope - ZOS took away the only Warden class CC. Mag Warden will need to use Master Destro for Destructive Touch

I guess you might have meant Stam Warden, which is the only truly strong (and honestly OP) Warden spec? Yup, they’ll get buffed ....

Meant both. I don't use shalks for a magicka CC on live right now anyways. Not reliable enough of a hit on a ranged warden build and I only rely on it for damage. Using destructive touch works without the Masters Staff as long as you aren't spamming it (which you shouldn't be). Besides, it is cheaper than Encase and its morphs and only costs 300 more magicka than Rune Prison. It's not really an expensive CC and it includes a dot component.

What will be really powerful for a Magden is the ability to run two 5 piece sets with skoria (or another full monster set). As it is right now, I am running 5 Wise mage on my front bar and 5 Jorvoulds on my back bar. Plan to switch Jorvolds with either Destruction Mastery or Necro to get a huge magicka pool and run both sets on both bars.

Wise Mage? And you don’t use Deep Fissure? Idk, we def play Mag Warden differently lol. That’s the first time I’ve heard of someone using Wise Mage/Jorvuld’s and also not slotting Deep Fissure as Mag Warden.

Oh, I use deep fissure. I just don't use it as a CC. I usually cast fletcher, lightning heavy attack, then deep fissure, hit the enemy with clench for the cc, and then hit them with a light attack, a bird/force pulse. The light attack, fissure, and bird/force pulse all hit around the same time. And the enemy is already CCd for the fissure hit, making it a far easier combo to land on more agile opponents.

And I've found that wise mage is oddly really strong in PVP. Guaranteed 8% damage boost for 10 seconds and you can keep this up for 100% of the time if you need. And outside of a Sorc or using the perfected Asylum staff, minor vulnerability is hard to come by. I use Jorvolds for now, with shields and major/minor buffs on my back bar for the extended duration, but it is admittedly the weakest part of my build. The change to Destruction Mastery or Necro will be a huge boost.

I highly recommend Necro. Jorvuld’s sounds much better than it actually is for PvP Mag Warden. As for Wise Mage, I personally consider Spell Crit bonuses in PvP to be sort of useless.... my goal is to pretty much always stack Max Mag > Spell Damage/Mag Recovery > Everything Else.

Destruction Mastery is good but only if Necro is already slotted, because Necro is obv straight up stronger. I think Shacklebreaker or Amberplasm is just a better choice overall than Destruction Mastery though, assuming you considered slotting it after already slotting Necro.

MLGProPlayer · May 2018

Fleshreaper wrote: »

OMG!!!!! THE SKY,,,, THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!! HEY, GUYS, THE SKY IS LITERALLY FALLING!!!!

No, chicken little, the sky is not falling. Just simmer down, you have no idea what's coming to live servers. Maybe, ZoS already has a plan for class balance and are instead using this time to test other things because, OMG, it's a Public Test Server, you know for testing different aspects of the game. Besides every class has gone through a nerf period and Wardens will be no different. When Wardens first came out they were the class to be and were overpowered.

Have you ever participated in the PTS? Because it doesn't sound like you have. It doesn't work the way you think it does.

MLGProPlayer · May 2018

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

ITT people that arent that good at playing Warden play up the class being dead.

Do enlightenn us, please. Post some magicka warden DPS numbers, along with this secret build no one else has discovered.

MLGProPlayer · May 2018

Also, I'm going to leave this here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5055222/#Comment_5055222

In before "competitive raiders haven't mastered the warden class yet"

jaws343 · May 2018

Vaoh wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Wardens are fine. They are arguably one of the strongest classes in PVP, their DPS on the PTS is quite impressive if anyone bothered to look, and they are certainly better than average for for tanking and healing.

And with the change to two handed set weapons, wardens are only going to get stronger in PVP.

Nope - ZOS took away the only Warden class CC. Mag Warden will need to use Master Destro for Destructive Touch

I guess you might have meant Stam Warden, which is the only truly strong (and honestly OP) Warden spec? Yup, they’ll get buffed ....

Meant both. I don't use shalks for a magicka CC on live right now anyways. Not reliable enough of a hit on a ranged warden build and I only rely on it for damage. Using destructive touch works without the Masters Staff as long as you aren't spamming it (which you shouldn't be). Besides, it is cheaper than Encase and its morphs and only costs 300 more magicka than Rune Prison. It's not really an expensive CC and it includes a dot component.

What will be really powerful for a Magden is the ability to run two 5 piece sets with skoria (or another full monster set). As it is right now, I am running 5 Wise mage on my front bar and 5 Jorvoulds on my back bar. Plan to switch Jorvolds with either Destruction Mastery or Necro to get a huge magicka pool and run both sets on both bars.

Wise Mage? And you don’t use Deep Fissure? Idk, we def play Mag Warden differently lol. That’s the first time I’ve heard of someone using Wise Mage/Jorvuld’s and also not slotting Deep Fissure as Mag Warden.

Oh, I use deep fissure. I just don't use it as a CC. I usually cast fletcher, lightning heavy attack, then deep fissure, hit the enemy with clench for the cc, and then hit them with a light attack, a bird/force pulse. The light attack, fissure, and bird/force pulse all hit around the same time. And the enemy is already CCd for the fissure hit, making it a far easier combo to land on more agile opponents.

And I've found that wise mage is oddly really strong in PVP. Guaranteed 8% damage boost for 10 seconds and you can keep this up for 100% of the time if you need. And outside of a Sorc or using the perfected Asylum staff, minor vulnerability is hard to come by. I use Jorvolds for now, with shields and major/minor buffs on my back bar for the extended duration, but it is admittedly the weakest part of my build. The change to Destruction Mastery or Necro will be a huge boost.

I highly recommend Necro. Jorvuld’s sounds much better than it actually is for PvP Mag Warden. As for Wise Mage, I personally consider Spell Crit bonuses in PvP to be sort of useless.... my goal is to pretty much always stack Max Mag > Spell Damage/Mag Recovery > Everything Else.

Destruction Mastery is good but only if Necro is already slotted, because Necro is obv straight up stronger. I think Shacklebreaker or Amberplasm is just a better choice overall than Destruction Mastery though, assuming you considered slotting it after already slotting Necro.

Yeah, Shackle is close behind Necro and Destro mastery. I prefer the stamina bonus it provides in PVP. It'll have to wait until I learn enough Jewelry traits to craft the jewelry or manage to get the full jewelry set for Wise Mage.

casparian · May 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

ITT people that arent that good at playing Warden play up the class being dead.

Do enlightebn, please. Post some magicka warden DPS numbers, along with this secret build no one else has discovered.

Go to Youtube
Search "magicka warden"
Filter > This Week

You'll find plenty of good parses. The problem is that the really good ones all rely on the bear, which isn't going to help you in actual raid settings where it will get killed.

MLGProPlayer · May 2018

casparian wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

ITT people that arent that good at playing Warden play up the class being dead.

Do enlightebn, please. Post some magicka warden DPS numbers, along with this secret build no one else has discovered.

Go to Youtube
Search "magicka warden"
Filter > This Week

You'll find plenty of good parses. The problem is that the really good ones all rely on the bear, which isn't going to help you in actual raid settings where it will get killed.

That's always been the case. Bear doesn't provide AOE damage either.

That's the problem with magicka warden. It can't achieve competitive DPS numbers in actual gameplay ssttings. That's why no one uses them.

Nothing has changed to make the class viable in over 12 months. Just 2% of the endgame population plays warden. And that's not 2% playing magicka warden. That's 2% playing any warden (magicka warden likely doesn't have a single player).

Darkonflare15 · May 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

ITT people that arent that good at playing Warden play up the class being dead.

Do enlightebn, please. Post some magicka warden DPS numbers, along with this secret build no one else has discovered.

Go to Youtube
Search "magicka warden"
Filter > This Week

You'll find plenty of good parses. The problem is that the really good ones all rely on the bear, which isn't going to help you in actual raid settings where it will get killed.

That's always been the case. Bear doesn't provide AOE damage either.

That's the problem with magicka warden. It can't achieve competitive DPS numbers in actual gameplay ssttings. That's why no one uses them.

Nothing has changed to make the class viable in over 12 months. Just 2% of the endgame population plays warden. And that's not 2% playing magicka warden. That's 2% playing any warden (magicka warden likely doesn't have a single player).

In end game. You have to say in end game because you know the rest of the game plenty of people play Wardens. Bears are everywhere.

MLGProPlayer · May 2018

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

ITT people that arent that good at playing Warden play up the class being dead.

Do enlightebn, please. Post some magicka warden DPS numbers, along with this secret build no one else has discovered.

Go to Youtube
Search "magicka warden"
Filter > This Week

You'll find plenty of good parses. The problem is that the really good ones all rely on the bear, which isn't going to help you in actual raid settings where it will get killed.

That's always been the case. Bear doesn't provide AOE damage either.

That's the problem with magicka warden. It can't achieve competitive DPS numbers in actual gameplay ssttings. That's why no one uses them.

Nothing has changed to make the class viable in over 12 months. Just 2% of the endgame population plays warden. And that's not 2% playing magicka warden. That's 2% playing any warden (magicka warden likely doesn't have a single player).

In end game. You have to say in end game because you know the rest of the game plenty of people play Wardens. Bears are everywhere.

You can run around naked in overland and still complete the content.

ghastley · May 2018

If you have that attitude, I can't understand why you re-rolled your Dragon Knight, Sorceror, Templar or NightBlade to create a Warden in the first place.

Troneon · May 2018

RIP Warderns, good thing I am a Templar...

Oh wait nvm....

spencer2361 · May 2018

Asardes wrote: »

LOL, I misread the topic title, thinking you want to run Silks of the Sun set on Warden

As for Warden, there's a big difference between the two sides of the class. On one hand Stamina is very strong in PvP, and decent in PvE, but Magicka sucks badly. When I leveled my Wardens I initially wanted to play the Magicka as main, but then realized how weak it was, and instead concentrated on the stamina one and I loved it. As of today, the former is by far the lowest in the priority of leveled characters I want to pick up and play. But that's all right, since those rubedite swords and ancestor silk jerkins don't craft themselves every day

I read it the same way lol

MLGProPlayer · May 2018

Troneon wrote: »

RIP Warderns, good thing I am a Templar...

Oh wait nvm....

My main before Motrowind was magicka templar. When MW came out, I levelled a magicka warden to become my main. Feels bad man.

It's a shame ZOS doesn't give a *** about us. We keep giving them our money and they keep ignoring us.

fred4 · May 2018

Vercingetorix wrote: »

So there you have it. Wardens will remain dead for another 3 months, likely longer. Feel free to re-roll to Sorc, DK, or NB. A recycled response for an ever-extending timeline for changes to improve a pretty much worthless class since its release - and yes, it IS worthless because PvE is 90% of ESO and that's where performance matters first.

What a ridiculous post. If PvE is 90% of ESO, then you are including the vast majority of overland and dungeon players, where a warden's high-end RAID performance doesn't matter one bit. How is it worthless? You can only refer to the RAID meta, right? How about whether the class is fun to play? Now that would be an argument. If your warden is lacking for stuff to do, make it a stamden and enjoy the PvP for 3 months! How about that?