The Sun Sets for Wardens in Summerset

Vercingetorix

For all of the hopeful Wardens of ESO, the following was posted earlier this morning with regards to the Summerset PTS:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys,

We truly appreciate all the time and effort everyone has put into writing their feedback on current class balance. In hindsight, we realized the previous patch notes may have implied that balance changes specifically for class abilities would be included in upcoming PTS patches for Update 18. To be clear, our focus for the remaining PTS updates will be iteration and polish for the Psijic Order skill line, Light and Heavy Attack balancing, updating item sets, and fixing bugs. We are, however, collecting all your class feedback and will work on improving class balance in future updates.

Link to Post: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5116620#Comment_5116620

So there you have it. Wardens will remain dead for another 3 months, likely longer. Feel free to re-roll to Sorc, DK, or NB. A recycled response for an ever-extending timeline for changes to improve a pretty much worthless class since its release - and yes, it IS worthless because PvE is 90% of ESO and that's where performance matters first. If you were expecting any meaningful changes to your class in this CHAPTER, ZoS' stance is pretty clear: "Shut up and pick flowers mine dust." Of course, you could always skip Summerset and try your luck again at next year's chapter and get Summerset for free, maybe without the terrible lack of attention to fixing the Warden class.

Apache_Kid

"May have implied"

I'm screaming with laughter

NoTimeToWait

Already rerolled to Sorc. Now I am waiting for sorc nerfs xD so I could finally be honest with my inner self and get that NB char that I keep making excuses to avoid

jypcy

Insightful for highlighting the update from Gina, but wardens can already complete all the pve content this game has to offer. If the concern is higher dps numbers then everyone would just play nbs. Sure I wouldn’t mind some warden buffs, but the class isn’t dead. Especially since they continue to insist on making the class p2p for whatever reason, I’m perfectly fine if it’s not as powerful as those you get in the base game.

Apache_Kid

jypcy wrote: »

Insightful for highlighting the update from Gina, but wardens can already complete all the pve content this game has to offer. If the concern is higher dps numbers then everyone would just play nbs. Sure I wouldn’t mind some warden buffs, but the class isn’t dead. Especially since they continue to insist on making the class p2p for whatever reason, I’m perfectly fine if it’s not as powerful as those you get in the base game.

Why should it be ok to pay extra money for something to only have it be weaker than everything you have in the game that you do not have to pay for?

Your logic is confusing to me.

Edit: Also, wardens cannot complete all PvE content in this game. There are 0 serious trial guilds on Xbox NA that will let me take my magwarden in. So no, i cannont complete all content with a warden because there isn't 11 others who can complete it willing to do it with my warden.

Princess_Ciri

Not that I am against Wardens getting a buff/skill-rework because some of their skills are terrible (arctic wind being a top contender) Magicka Wardens are actually in a pretty good place DPS wise. Nobody plays them because they think they're terrible, but a Magicka Warden is only really behind Magblades and MagDKs on the PTS.

Even on the live server, and being the potato DD that I am, I can get good dps on my Magden. And I know other players that are actually good DDs who are able to get really sick dps on them.

Fallewarrior

On pts, mag wardens > mag sorcs.

Not sure what you are smoking.

Apache_Kid

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

Not that I am against Wardens getting a buff/skill-rework because some of their skills are terrible (arctic wind being a top contender) Magicka Wardens are actually in a pretty good place DPS wise. Nobody plays them because they think they're terrible, but a Magicka Warden is only really behind Magblades and MagDKs on the PTS.

Even on the live server, and being the potato DD that I am, I can get good dps on my Magden. And I know other players that are actually good DDs who are able to get really sick dps on them.

On live my magwarden hits lower than My Magsorc, MagNB, and Magplar. Can't speak about PTS.

Apache_Kid

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

Not that I am against Wardens getting a buff/skill-rework because some of their skills are terrible (arctic wind being a top contender) Magicka Wardens are actually in a pretty good place DPS wise. Nobody plays them because they think they're terrible, but a Magicka Warden is only really behind Magblades and MagDKs on the PTS.

Even on the live server, and being the potato DD that I am, I can get good dps on my Magden. And I know other players that are actually good DDs who are able to get really sick dps on them.

On live my magwarden hits lower than My Magsorc, MagNB, and Magplar. Can't speak about PTS.

jypcy

@Apache_Kid so that being competitive in game isn’t based on how much money you’re able to shell out. I think it would be great if warden just got added to base game and they could balance it to be on par with the other classes for competitive pve without fears of p2w issues. But that’s not the current vision so, like said, I’m fine with it as is.

The crown store is supposed to only be aesthetics anyways, right?

And edit to respond to your edit: if players aren’t allowing you to bring your warden, then that’s a community issue.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Wardens are fine. They are arguably one of the strongest classes in PVP, their DPS on the PTS is quite impressive if anyone bothered to look, and they are certainly better than average for for tanking and healing.

jaws343

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Wardens are fine. They are arguably one of the strongest classes in PVP, their DPS on the PTS is quite impressive if anyone bothered to look, and they are certainly better than average for for tanking and healing.

And with the change to two handed set weapons, wardens are only going to get stronger in PVP.

Apache_Kid

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Wardens are fine. They are arguably one of the strongest classes in PVP, their DPS on the PTS is quite impressive if anyone bothered to look, and they are certainly better than average for for tanking and healing.

I am not on the PTS as i play on Xbox so i have no idea but What changes were made that made their DPS impressive on PTS? I don't recall seeing anything in the patch notes that would indicate they gained DPS other than LA scaling which everyone is getting yes?

Apache_Kid

jypcy wrote: »

@Apache_Kid so that being competitive in game isn’t based on how much money you’re able to shell out. I think it would be great if warden just got added to base game and they could balance it to be on par with the other classes for competitive pve without fears of p2w issues. But that’s not the current vision so, like said, I’m fine with it as is.

The crown store is supposed to only be aesthetics anyways, right?

And edit to respond to your edit: if players aren’t allowing you to bring your warden, then that’s a community issue.

Ok but why should you shell out money to be WORSE ?

Asardes

LOL, I misread the topic title, thinking you want to run Silks of the Sun set on Warden

As for Warden, there's a big difference between the two sides of the class. On one hand Stamina is very strong in PvP, and decent in PvE, but Magicka sucks badly. When I leveled my Wardens I initially wanted to play the Magicka as main, but then realized how weak it was, and instead concentrated on the stamina one and I loved it. As of today, the former is by far the lowest in the priority of leveled characters I want to pick up and play. But that's all right, since those rubedite swords and ancestor silk jerkins don't craft themselves every day

jypcy

@Apache_Kid because it’s a game and the class offers a unique playstyle that’s fun to play in its own right? Top competitive pve scores will be more about player skill than class anyways. And even if you’re not able to try it out for yourself (which I’m sorry to hear if so), I can attest that wardens can complete all content. You’re paying for a unique way to play the game and can still successfully play the game this way, toxic communities notwithstanding. I don’t see anything wrong with that transaction.

Liko

I've done quite some testing on each PTS iteration for the different ranged magicka classes. Magicka Wardens from a PVE perspective are fine. Only Magicka Nightblades will be stronger, as things stand.

NoTimeToWait

Liko wrote: »

I've done quite some testing on each PTS iteration for the different ranged magicka classes. Magicka Wardens from a PVE perspective are fine. Only Magicka Nightblades will be stronger, as things stand.

I'll agree with that when someone posts at least some parses for magden without bear that would be competitive with magsorcs without pets

jypcy wrote: »

@Apache_Kid because it’s a game and the class offers a unique playstyle that’s fun to play in its own right? Top competitive pve scores will be more about player skill than class anyways. And even if you’re not able to try it out for yourself (which I’m sorry to hear if so), I can attest that wardens can complete all content. You’re paying for a unique way to play the game and can still successfully play the game this way, toxic communities notwithstanding. I don’t see anything wrong with that transaction.

Excuse me, how is it going to have a unique playstyle, if any decent build uses only 2-3 active skills from all of the Warden skill trees? Where do you see uniqueness in that?

Apache_Kid

jypcy wrote: »

@Apache_Kid because it’s a game and the class offers a unique playstyle that’s fun to play in its own right? Top competitive pve scores will be more about player skill than class anyways. And even if you’re not able to try it out for yourself (which I’m sorry to hear if so), I can attest that wardens can complete all content. You’re paying for a unique way to play the game and can still successfully play the game this way, toxic communities notwithstanding. I don’t see anything wrong with that transaction.

Alright well the community is what it is and will continue to exist. Designing classes in a vacuum without worrying about the effects of them having lower sustained DPS than other classes isn't a good way to sell something in my opinion. Will make me think twice when/if they release another new class.

Hopefully things will be better for them numbers-wise in Summerset as others are saying in this thread. I can assure you that on Xbox, until they are hitting the same as the other classes on a dummy, I will still not be able to use mine in competitive PvE content because of the stigma they have. As lame as that is, its what we got.

xeNNNNN

Apache_Kid wrote: »

jypcy wrote: »

Insightful for highlighting the update from Gina, but wardens can already complete all the pve content this game has to offer. If the concern is higher dps numbers then everyone would just play nbs. Sure I wouldn’t mind some warden buffs, but the class isn’t dead. Especially since they continue to insist on making the class p2p for whatever reason, I’m perfectly fine if it’s not as powerful as those you get in the base game.

Why should it be ok to pay extra money for something to only have it be weaker than everything you have in the game that you do not have to pay for?

Your logic is confusing to me.

Edit: Also, wardens cannot complete all PvE content in this game. There are 0 serious trial guilds on Xbox NA that will let me take my magwarden in. So no, i cannont complete all content with a warden because there isn't 11 others who can complete it willing to do it with my warden.

erhm, just because you cannot complete said content due to guilds being restrictive does not mean that other players are incapable of doing so meaning ; YES wardens CAN complete all PvE content. Assuming that an entire class cannot do it just because you cannot do it is beyond ridiculous.

NoTimeToWait

xeNNNNN wrote: »

erhm, just because you cannot complete said content due to guilds being restrictive does not mean that other players are incapable of doing so meaning ; YES wardens CAN complete all PvE content. Assuming that an entire class cannot do it just because you cannot do it is beyond ridiculous.

Someone needs to start "Only Wardens" trial competitive guild, so they could manage it, lol

Vercingetorix

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

Liko wrote: »

I've done quite some testing on each PTS iteration for the different ranged magicka classes. Magicka Wardens from a PVE perspective are fine. Only Magicka Nightblades will be stronger, as things stand.

I'll agree with that when someone posts at least some parses for magden without bear that would be competitive with magsorcs without pets

jypcy wrote: »

@Apache_Kid because it’s a game and the class offers a unique playstyle that’s fun to play in its own right? Top competitive pve scores will be more about player skill than class anyways. And even if you’re not able to try it out for yourself (which I’m sorry to hear if so), I can attest that wardens can complete all content. You’re paying for a unique way to play the game and can still successfully play the game this way, toxic communities notwithstanding. I don’t see anything wrong with that transaction.

Excuse me, how is it going to have a unique playstyle, if any decent build uses only 2-3 active skills from all of the Warden skill trees? Where do you see uniqueness in that?

In a similar vein, stamina builds for all classes are often carbon-copies of one another. I often jokingly refer to stamina builds as the "weapon class" to my guildies because of how restrictive the stamina setup is for just about every class. I also feel that having a few class abilities on your bar isn't really unique - having 1 or 2 weapon abilities for a little extra utility or damage is fine, just as long as most of the combat is based around the class' abilities - THEN it is unique.

Liko

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

Liko wrote: »

I've done quite some testing on each PTS iteration for the different ranged magicka classes. Magicka Wardens from a PVE perspective are fine. Only Magicka Nightblades will be stronger, as things stand.

I'll agree with that when someone posts at least some parses for magden without bear that would be competitive with magsorcs without pets

That's like asking a magblade to post a parse without using merciless resolve and bow procs

Apache_Kid

Liko wrote: »

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

Liko wrote: »

I've done quite some testing on each PTS iteration for the different ranged magicka classes. Magicka Wardens from a PVE perspective are fine. Only Magicka Nightblades will be stronger, as things stand.

I'll agree with that when someone posts at least some parses for magden without bear that would be competitive with magsorcs without pets

That's like asking a magblade to post a parse without using merciless resolve and bow procs

Well there are fights in this game where pets are a detriment to the group and are not wanted by the group.

There are no fights where a magblade is asked to take off merciless resolve and not use bow procs.

Liko

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Liko wrote: »

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

Liko wrote: »

I've done quite some testing on each PTS iteration for the different ranged magicka classes. Magicka Wardens from a PVE perspective are fine. Only Magicka Nightblades will be stronger, as things stand.

I'll agree with that when someone posts at least some parses for magden without bear that would be competitive with magsorcs without pets

That's like asking a magblade to post a parse without using merciless resolve and bow procs

Well there are fights in this game where pets are a detriment to the group and are not wanted by the group.

There are no fights where a magblade is asked to take off merciless resolve and not use bow procs.

There are only a small handful of fights where this is the case. I mostly refer to relevant content to the upcoming patch such as the new trial, where if used correctly, the bear is great.

Korah_Eaglecry

ITT people that arent that good at playing Warden play up the class being dead.

jypcy

Vercingetorix wrote: »

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

Liko wrote: »

I've done quite some testing on each PTS iteration for the different ranged magicka classes. Magicka Wardens from a PVE perspective are fine. Only Magicka Nightblades will be stronger, as things stand.

I'll agree with that when someone posts at least some parses for magden without bear that would be competitive with magsorcs without pets

jypcy wrote: »

@Apache_Kid because it’s a game and the class offers a unique playstyle that’s fun to play in its own right? Top competitive pve scores will be more about player skill than class anyways. And even if you’re not able to try it out for yourself (which I’m sorry to hear if so), I can attest that wardens can complete all content. You’re paying for a unique way to play the game and can still successfully play the game this way, toxic communities notwithstanding. I don’t see anything wrong with that transaction.

Excuse me, how is it going to have a unique playstyle, if any decent build uses only 2-3 active skills from all of the Warden skill trees? Where do you see uniqueness in that?

In a similar vein, stamina builds for all classes are often carbon-copies of one another. I often jokingly refer to stamina builds as the "weapon class" to my guildies because of how restrictive the stamina setup is for just about every class. I also feel that having a few class abilities on your bar isn't really unique - having 1 or 2 weapon abilities for a little extra utility or damage is fine, just as long as most of the combat is based around the class' abilities - THEN it is unique.

Well passives are a thing to consider, too. But in terms of active abilities, my stamden uses 6-7 class abilities on his bars (depending on whether you’d double count the bear ult) and from a casual vma run yesterday I think I posted 550k+, something like that. Idk if I’d call that great but hopefully you can agree that at least meets your “decent” criteria. And I can’t recall exact numbers, but I think my magden uses around 8. Haven’t tried warden healer so can’t speak to that. My tankden uses 8 as well. So beyond passives, each of them plays with half or more of their active abilities being unique to the class.

Fleshreaper

OMG!!!!! THE SKY,,,, THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!! HEY, GUYS, THE SKY IS LITERALLY FALLING!!!!

No, chicken little, the sky is not falling. Just simmer down, you have no idea what's coming to live servers. Maybe, ZoS already has a plan for class balance and are instead using this time to test other things because, OMG, it's a Public Test Server, you know for testing different aspects of the game. Besides every class has gone through a nerf period and Wardens will be no different. When Wardens first came out they were the class to be and were overpowered.

Waffennacht

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

ITT people that arent that good at playing Warden play up the class being dead.

Lmfao.

Why be warden?

Sorc has the better burst and execute
NB has better burst execute and survivability
Templars have better burst
DKs keep their leap

For PvP damage dealing, you are extremely subpar to the other mag classes. What's the best ability for a Magden?

In battlegrounds, healing is a horrible choice unless in a premade. Less so with a tank.

So essentially, Magden has to be a tank/healer for BGs... Which pays nothing and is really rather stupid when Pugging

Vaoh

jaws343 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Wardens are fine. They are arguably one of the strongest classes in PVP, their DPS on the PTS is quite impressive if anyone bothered to look, and they are certainly better than average for for tanking and healing.

And with the change to two handed set weapons, wardens are only going to get stronger in PVP.

Nope - ZOS took away the only Warden class CC. Mag Warden will need to use Master Destro for Destructive Touch

I guess you might have meant Stam Warden, which is the only truly strong (and honestly OP) Warden spec? Yup, they’ll get buffed ....

Tryxus

Vaoh wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Wardens are fine. They are arguably one of the strongest classes in PVP, their DPS on the PTS is quite impressive if anyone bothered to look, and they are certainly better than average for for tanking and healing.

And with the change to two handed set weapons, wardens are only going to get stronger in PVP.

Nope - ZOS took away the only Warden class CC. Mag Warden will need to use Master Destro for Destructive Touch

I guess you might have meant Stam Warden, which is the only truly strong (and honestly OP) Warden spec? Yup, they’ll get buffed ....

- Flame/Shock Staff with Clench/Reach
- Vampirism Drain
- Or the new Psijic skill