Battleground deserter? Really?

maroite · May 2018

ToRelax wrote: »

maroite wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

Why did this turn into another PvE VS PvP War? O_O

When calling one of them "cancerous" in the OP, that's not entirely unexpected. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I feel the knee-jerk, defensive response of PvPers kind of solidified his opinion though. lol

Personally I'm indifferent but I don't have any interest in PvP in ESO outside of the skill lines, so I can see where the OP is coming from.

As for PvPers having to do specific PvE content, I'm not sure I agree that its the same. If ESO was marketed as a purely PvP game, and then the best PvP skills were locked behind random PvE encounters, then I could see the comparison. That isn't the case though. ESO was structured as a PvE game, that PvP was included after the fact and if I remember correctly, after the original launch?

It's the other way around actually. Trials were only put in the game after launch. Originally there were a handful of dungeons that had a veteran version and Cyrodiil as "endgame" content.

The core of the game is still PVE based. The game starts with PVE story, and you're doing PVE quests. It doesn't load you into PvP, and send you off to fight other players.

Cyrodiil being marketed as the end game was a bad marketing choice, imo. They should have learned from Warhammer Online.

*shrug* I've never found PVP in MMO's to be fulfilling. But that's just my opinion. It brings a level of enjoyment for a few weeks but loses its charm really quickly for me. Then again, I can say the same for a lot of PVE content as well.

Aurielle · May 2018

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

To PvPers, once and for all:
Undaunted takes just a couple of days. I usually get undaunted maxed before I have all the skill points from the dungeons. Getting skill points form PvP takes a year. You are being dishonest when you compare pve and pvp by comparing caltrops to doing dungeons which also grants you 32 skill points currently for less than a day of work if you put your mind to it and gets you most of the way to getting your undaunted passives. Once I can get 32 of the pvp skill points in one day on a new character that is doing nothing more than light attacks, then we'll have a conversation about what's the worse grind.

@Aurielle
I am not stealthing in the corner, I'm doing my best to help the team, because I don't want to ruin the game for the people who actually want to play there (and I did sometimes cap even 5/5 of the relics and won the fight for the team with all 3 of the others not even daring to move away from the relic at the base). If I found 3 more people who agreed that winning doesn't matter, I definitely would just go afk for the duration of the fight, just to avoid the PvP. My time would be way better spent watching a movie or chatting with people on discord than subjecting myself to this cancer.

While I’m glad you don’t stealth out in Battlegrounds (which is, quite frankly, more “cancerous” than anything actual PVPers do), you ARE being a little ridiculous in your complaints about your plight. To gain Undaunted rank 9 in a day, you need a group of like-minded people who are willing to spend their entire day grinding out vet dungeon achievements — I have tried MULTIPLE times to put such a group together for my stam sorc (one of two alts that have yet to hit rank 9) to no avail. I’m at the mercy of the dungeon finder, so it has taken more than a week so far to hit rank 7. You are far more likely to find a steady stream of zergs in Cyrodiil during the run of a day than you are to queue into every vet dungeon in a timely fashion as a damage dealer. That’s not even counting the frustration of spending half an hour on a single vet dungeon, only to have the entire group quit at the last boss because the other damage dealer is pulling under 10k DPS and your tank has 15k health... There are so many times when I’m the last person standing in a vet dungeon, pulling 30k DPS, healing the whole group with Vigor, AND dealing with the boss being up in my face because the tank doesn’t know how to taunt and the healer doesn’t know how to heal.

With zerg surfing, you literally just have to spam heals and relax as the AP rolls in. Sometimes you get wiped, but you’re still making progress towards your goal. In a Battleground, you can be absolutely terrible on an absolutely terrible team, and you still get your consolation AP. The grind is in no way comparable.

Sure, if you’re grinding alliance ranks for skill points, that’s another story... but why TF would you do that when it is SO easy to rack up hundreds of skill points with skyshards, quests, public dungeons, etc?

No, those people stealthing in the corner are exactly what you deserve for defending this design.

The solution to your PvE problem is simple: don't run vet dungeons. Where do I get this option in PvP? Is there an "easy mode" for PvP where I can kill all my enemies with just light attacks and not standing in red circles? Because if you want to punish people stealthing in the corners/afking at the base, there isn't one in PvP, and by you doing your best to annoy those people as you yourself have stated, you are contributing to the toxicity of this already horrible game mode. If you're as good as you say you are, most dungeons will take you less than 10 minutes each if you're soloing them. You'll be done with non-DLC dungeons in less time than you need to get caltrops, and the DLC dungeons are easy enough on normal that you can do them with a random group, even if it might take half an hour if you have bad luck.

And yeah, I have over 350 skill points on all characters that are more than hireling mules, and I'm struggling to get everything I need. Crafting skills take a lot of points, having a secondary spec (which I have on all chars I play regularly) takes a lot of skill points. Skills that are situationally useful also add up to quite a skill point sink (legardemain, thieves guild, dark brotherhood and soon also psijic order and another crafting skill line). Just because you are happy playing PUBG ESO edition instead of The Elder Scrolls, doesn't mean everyone else is.

LOL. Sweetie, only having 30k DPS won’t help me to complete the vet dungeon achievements I need to reach Undaunted 9 solo. I’m good, but I’m not 50k+ DPS good. I can’t do vet speed runs by myself, and occasionally die to certain mechanics. I am, unfortunately, forced to group up in order to grind those achievements out if I want Undaunted 9 in the same amount of time it takes to unlock Caltrops and Vigor. I’ve already done all normal versions of dungeons on my PVP characters, and guess what? Still not at Undaunted Rank 9. So yeah, if I want Undaunted Mettle, I DO have to waste time in the group finder or hope that someone in my guild doesn’t mind speed running/no deathing VoM for the millionth time.

I find your argument that you need more skill points completely bogus. My main is built for PVE vet dungeons and trials. She is my main master crafter. She has everything she needs with 25 skill points to spare, AND has not completed all skill point-granting quests OR collected every skyshard yet.

You are exaggerating. Big time.

Araxyte · May 2018

I think instead of bashing PvE and PvP alike we should actually come up with some solutions (not like any will be implemented, but oh well).

At the moment we have new players going up against grand-overlord pre-made teams, really? There needs to be some sort of system in place which keeps pre-made teams in one game and solo players in another.

However, this probably wont work yet due to the lack of players in battle grounds. Making battle grounds main-game content (which I think they might be doing?) should fix this.

ayu_fever · May 2018

ZeroXFF wrote: »

To PvPers, once and for all:
Undaunted takes just a couple of days. I usually get undaunted maxed before I have all the skill points from the dungeons. Getting skill points form PvP takes a year. You are being dishonest when you compare pve and pvp by comparing caltrops to doing dungeons which also grants you 32 skill points currently for less than a day of work if you put your mind to it and gets you most of the way to getting your undaunted passives. Once I can get 32 of the pvp skill points in one day on a new character that is doing nothing more than light attacks, then we'll have a conversation about what's the worse grind.

@Aurielle
I am not stealthing in the corner, I'm doing my best to help the team, because I don't want to ruin the game for the people who actually want to play there (and I did sometimes cap even 5/5 of the relics and won the fight for the team with all 3 of the others not even daring to move away from the relic at the base). If I found 3 more people who agreed that winning doesn't matter, I definitely would just go afk for the duration of the fight, just to avoid the PvP. My time would be way better spent watching a movie or chatting with people on discord than subjecting myself to this cancer.

bravo good chap!!!
i like you.
well said!
i hate pvp with a passion as well, and i AFK’d my share of battlegrounds getting guaranteed 7k AP each game for those certain skills we all know and love.
like it not pvp’ers, my pve people are FORCED into pvp.
of course the pvp’ers like it. we are easy prey to kill. they want us in there for that reason.
imagine a cyrodiil full of only fierce pvp’ers, and then ESO would be unplayable for the good guys (pve players) because of their precious nerfs all for the sake of “balance” (or is it all about that K/D?)
#PVEplayersmatter

Exalted_Goose · May 2018

A little off-topic, (and to throw some more wood on the fire), but is anyone gonna bring up how PvP'ers have to farm Vet Dungeons on loop grinding for BiS gear, which could theoretically take forever? Or have I just missed it?

Aurielle · May 2018

ayu_fever wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

To PvPers, once and for all:
Undaunted takes just a couple of days. I usually get undaunted maxed before I have all the skill points from the dungeons. Getting skill points form PvP takes a year. You are being dishonest when you compare pve and pvp by comparing caltrops to doing dungeons which also grants you 32 skill points currently for less than a day of work if you put your mind to it and gets you most of the way to getting your undaunted passives. Once I can get 32 of the pvp skill points in one day on a new character that is doing nothing more than light attacks, then we'll have a conversation about what's the worse grind.

@Aurielle
I am not stealthing in the corner, I'm doing my best to help the team, because I don't want to ruin the game for the people who actually want to play there (and I did sometimes cap even 5/5 of the relics and won the fight for the team with all 3 of the others not even daring to move away from the relic at the base). If I found 3 more people who agreed that winning doesn't matter, I definitely would just go afk for the duration of the fight, just to avoid the PvP. My time would be way better spent watching a movie or chatting with people on discord than subjecting myself to this cancer.

bravo good chap!!!
i like you.
well said!
i hate pvp with a passion as well, and i AFK’d my share of battlegrounds getting guaranteed 7k AP each game for those certain skills we all know and love.
like it not pvp’ers, my pve people are FORCED into pvp.
of course the pvp’ers like it. we are easy prey to kill. they want us in there for that reason.
imagine a cyrodiil full of only fierce pvp’ers, and then ESO would be unplayable for the good guys (pve players) because of their precious nerfs all for the sake of “balance” (or is it all about that K/D?)
#PVEplayersmatter

I'm an ESO player. I do all content: trials, dungeons, and PVP. In order to be good at all of those roles (yes, including PVP!), I have to do ALL content. Gee, it's almost like the developers wanted their players to experience their entire product! Edit: also, afk'ing in Battlegrounds is a ***, *** thing to do. How would you like it if I rocked into a vet dungeon in PVP gear and light attacked my way through it? Same thing.

Exalted_Goose wrote: »

A little off-topic, (and to throw some more wood on the fire), but is anyone gonna bring up how PvP'ers have to farm Vet Dungeons on loop grinding for BiS gear, which could theoretically take forever? Or have I just missed it?

It has been mentioned and conveniently ignored by the complainers, yes.

Cloudless · May 2018

Minyassa wrote: »

See, conversations like this are another example of why they should have just completely separated PvP and PvE and basically made them two entirely different games with nothing to do with each other. PvPers don't want to PvE at all and resent it when they have to. PvEers don't want to PvP at all and resent it when they have to. The idiotic "meta" that we are all heavily bullied into following if we want to participate in endgame content because we'll be snubbed and shut out if we didn't needs to change so that PvE doesn't require PvP skills and vice versa, but that's just not going to happen unless luck has it that better equivalent skills come out to replace the ones in demand. It's just buggered up on both sides. I really wish someone would make a pretty, creative, beautifully imagined game like this and just release it in two versions, PvP-only and PvE-only and then the people who like both would have TWO games to play, and the people who can't stand one or the other would never be forced into contact with the thing that really ruins their playtime and makes it a hated chore, and everyone would win.

This. This. So much this. The "bullied" part, too, so painfully accurate.

TheValar85 · May 2018

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

Why did this turn into another PvE VS PvP War? O_O

becasue ZOS was so utterly stupid, to mix pve with pvp inclduing skills to get....

I dont get it to be honest they haven't done their research properly on the subject. mixing pve with pvp never meant to be a thing, and never lead to any good community opinions. as we both see it here now.

Aurielle · May 2018

Seri wrote: »

maroite wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

Why did this turn into another PvE VS PvP War? O_O

When calling one of them "cancerous" in the OP, that's not entirely unexpected. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I feel the knee-jerk, defensive response of PvPers kind of solidified his opinion though. lol

And yet it was the PvE player who called names first... strange.

Aurielle wrote: »

ayu_fever wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

To PvPers, once and for all:
Undaunted takes just a couple of days. I usually get undaunted maxed before I have all the skill points from the dungeons. Getting skill points form PvP takes a year. You are being dishonest when you compare pve and pvp by comparing caltrops to doing dungeons which also grants you 32 skill points currently for less than a day of work if you put your mind to it and gets you most of the way to getting your undaunted passives. Once I can get 32 of the pvp skill points in one day on a new character that is doing nothing more than light attacks, then we'll have a conversation about what's the worse grind.

@Aurielle
I am not stealthing in the corner, I'm doing my best to help the team, because I don't want to ruin the game for the people who actually want to play there (and I did sometimes cap even 5/5 of the relics and won the fight for the team with all 3 of the others not even daring to move away from the relic at the base). If I found 3 more people who agreed that winning doesn't matter, I definitely would just go afk for the duration of the fight, just to avoid the PvP. My time would be way better spent watching a movie or chatting with people on discord than subjecting myself to this cancer.

bravo good chap!!!
i like you.
well said!
i hate pvp with a passion as well, and i AFK’d my share of battlegrounds getting guaranteed 7k AP each game for those certain skills we all know and love.
like it not pvp’ers, my pve people are FORCED into pvp.
of course the pvp’ers like it. we are easy prey to kill. they want us in there for that reason.
imagine a cyrodiil full of only fierce pvp’ers, and then ESO would be unplayable for the good guys (pve players) because of their precious nerfs all for the sake of “balance” (or is it all about that K/D?)
#PVEplayersmatter

I'm an ESO player. I do all content: trials, dungeons, and PVP. In order to be good at all of those roles (yes, including PVP!), I have to do ALL content. Gee, it's almost like the developers wanted their players to experience their entire product! Edit: also, afk'ing in Battlegrounds is a ***, *** thing to do. How would you like it if I rocked into a vet dungeon in PVP gear and light attacked my way through it? Same thing.

You'd get booted, obviously (and it would be the PvP players fault for not gearing up correctly)

I agree that people AFK-ing in the corner of a BG is pretty bad. I ran a couple the other day and had someone say they were new and mostly after AP, but they jumped in and tried - I'm perfectly fine with that. The exact same match, someone just crouched in the corner, occasionally moving to avoid a timeout.

Precisely. The double standards are infuriating. I ground out BIS PVE gear for my stam sorc for the Undaunted grind, EVEN THOUGH that character was specifically designed for Battlegrounds, because I’m actually going to do the best I can and not let the group down. AFKing in a corner in a Battleground is equivalent to light attacking your way through a vet dungeon in impen gear, and these tools think they’re entitled to it because they’re “forced” to PVP.

zaria · May 2018

Mureel wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Kalgert wrote: »

I just avoid PvP entirely.

The skills and skill points are simply not worth me getting a headache because some bumpkin with the same CP as me eviscerates me while I can barely make a dent to him.

How is that fun for anyone? Tell me.

It is extremely fun to go toe to toe with something that ISN’T a scripted, predictable AI. When I run into another player in a Battleground or in Cyrodiil, I have no idea if they’re running a relatively squishy high burst build, or if they’re a tanky turtle type, etc. Part of the fun is figuring out, very quickly, whether you have the firepower to take that player out, or whether you need to blow every defensive trick at your disposal to get the heck out of there. Battlegrounds are especially fun, because CP is not a factor, defile isn’t completely OP, and it’s a lot harder to build an unkillable character.

If you give it an honest go, build a proper PVP character, and stick with it instead of just giving up after a few wipes, you may end up enjoying it as much as the rest of us.

No, fun is preparing for the battle, making a plan and executing it flawlessly. The lack of CP is another reason why PvP is cancer. Not only is my PvE build useless because of the mechanics involved, it's intentionally gimped even more for no reason and without me having any choice in the matter - on top of an additional flat nerf, because why the hell would I want to play ESO. Since I like it so much, let's make it a different game so that I don't any more. So much fun... -_-

Too much entitlement here.

I went on all my scrubs from my tank onward to BG - because getting your AP/Skills is FASSSSSST!

Also, even on my PVE chars (I mainly BG on my Sorc now) it is FUN! xD I was really not into PVP much (horse ride + big boring buildings + lag = who cares!?) but when I started BG - I really love it now!

(Except Chaos Ball. barf. That one is The Worst.)

And this is why game spread stuff out to have you have to do all sort of stuff.
You don't know if you like something until you tried it a bit.

ToRelax · May 2018

maroite wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

maroite wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

Why did this turn into another PvE VS PvP War? O_O

When calling one of them "cancerous" in the OP, that's not entirely unexpected. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I feel the knee-jerk, defensive response of PvPers kind of solidified his opinion though. lol

Personally I'm indifferent but I don't have any interest in PvP in ESO outside of the skill lines, so I can see where the OP is coming from.

As for PvPers having to do specific PvE content, I'm not sure I agree that its the same. If ESO was marketed as a purely PvP game, and then the best PvP skills were locked behind random PvE encounters, then I could see the comparison. That isn't the case though. ESO was structured as a PvE game, that PvP was included after the fact and if I remember correctly, after the original launch?

It's the other way around actually. Trials were only put in the game after launch. Originally there were a handful of dungeons that had a veteran version and Cyrodiil as "endgame" content.

The core of the game is still PVE based. The game starts with PVE story, and you're doing PVE quests. It doesn't load you into PvP, and send you off to fight other players.

Cyrodiil being marketed as the end game was a bad marketing choice, imo. They should have learned from Warhammer Online.

*shrug* I've never found PVP in MMO's to be fulfilling. But that's just my opinion. It brings a level of enjoyment for a few weeks but loses its charm really quickly for me. Then again, I can say the same for a lot of PVE content as well.

You're being loaded into a tutorial and taught basic game mechanics. Once you reach level 10 and have a couple skills unlocked, you can go to Cyrodiil and use the dungeon finder. The process isn't unusual for a PvP game at all.

Pastas · May 2018

maroite wrote: »

Pastas wrote: »

Prospero_ESO wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Game crashes in the middle of a match, I log back in, I'm not in the BG any more, got no AP and can't queue for a new match because I'm apparently a "deserter". It's bad enough that mandatory PvE skills and skill points are hidden behind a cancerous game mode, but the players also have to be punished for the mistakes of the devs. Awesome.

/rant

You’re the type who just stealths out in a corner for the easy AP, aren’t you? I agree that the deserter penalty for crashes is annoying, but knock off the complaining about being “forced” to PVP. My PVP characters have to PVE for Undaunted Mettle, which is a WAY longer grind, so don’t act as though you’re so hard done by. It’s not a mistake by the devs: they actually (gasp!) want players to try out ALL the game’s content.

There are certain classes that need skills from the pvp skill lines if they want to raid, they are simply to good not to have, War Horn and Purge for example. Your analogy with pve is simply bs, ESO has been and will ever be a PvE game mainly, so complaining about pve is kinda dumb tbh. But i give you that, forcing people to a certain game style is simply not good design 2018, be it pvp or pve.

The fact that you only play/enjoy PvE content doesn't convert ESO into a PvE game. PvP has been part of the game since realese. Lot of people like playing PvE and PvP, like me, and I have never understood that stupid PvE/PvP war on forums.

He did say "mainly." ESO is mainly a PvE game, for better or worse. I also think the OP's issue is that some of the best PvE skills are locked behind having to PVP.

The game is mainly PvE for YOU. I know lot of players who does't do PvE unless they need to farm some skills/gear.

Haquor · May 2018

Kalgert wrote: »

I just avoid PvP entirely.

The skills and skill points are simply not worth me getting a headache because some bumpkin with the same CP as me eviscerates me while I can barely make a dent to him.

How is that fun for anyone? Tell me.

You learn from every death. And despite what you may think... everyone in pvp dies. A lot. The trick is to not get all sore in the butt about it.

The fun is in challenging yourself by putting your skill against that of another human player. Not some predictable AI.

Enslaved · May 2018

I get about 500K APs for a day in Battlegrounds. No need to win, no need to have good healer or good DD/tank. You simply queue and go there trying to do objectives. Its about 40-50k APs per hour. So, for vigor you need about 2h. For caltrops, maybe double that. For AvA rank 13 and assault/support lvl 10 you would need about 24h. And that is if you mostly lose BGs. If you win, its even faster.

Eirella · May 2018

Ugh, some PVE players....so entitled.

I dislike PVE and don't have Undaunted on ANY of my characters, but do you see me creating threads crying about it? No. Get over it, do the content to get your skill, or don't, just stop freaking whining about it.

That being said, it sucks you got a deserter penalty for crashing. I recommend going to Cyrodiil, far easier to get AP there, just follow the zerg.

Apache_Kid · May 2018

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

To PvPers, once and for all:
Undaunted takes just a couple of days. I usually get undaunted maxed before I have all the skill points from the dungeons. Getting skill points form PvP takes a year. You are being dishonest when you compare pve and pvp by comparing caltrops to doing dungeons which also grants you 32 skill points currently for less than a day of work if you put your mind to it and gets you most of the way to getting your undaunted passives. Once I can get 32 of the pvp skill points in one day on a new character that is doing nothing more than light attacks, then we'll have a conversation about what's the worse grind.

@Aurielle
I am not stealthing in the corner, I'm doing my best to help the team, because I don't want to ruin the game for the people who actually want to play there (and I did sometimes cap even 5/5 of the relics and won the fight for the team with all 3 of the others not even daring to move away from the relic at the base). If I found 3 more people who agreed that winning doesn't matter, I definitely would just go afk for the duration of the fight, just to avoid the PvP. My time would be way better spent watching a movie or chatting with people on discord than subjecting myself to this cancer.

Getting caltrops takes a couple of hours.

And you didn't read the rest. Yet another example of a dishonest PvPer. Way to perpetuate the stereotype.

I play both PvP and PvE equally. And the 32 skill points is completely irrelevant. We are discussing the leveling of skill lines, not the rate at which you acquire skill points.

I read your whole post. The part i bolded is the only part relevant to our discussion.

Are you suggesting that skill points are irrelevant to PvE? Because I'm not discussing skills, I'm discussing what you have to do in PvP to be as effective as possible in PvE, and skill points are a big part of that.

Yeah but there are other ways to get skill points. I can skyshard hunt a couple zones in an hour and have the skill points I need for PvP. If i still need more, Knock out a few public dungeon group events for another 30 minutes and I'm pretty much ready to go. This isn't what I am discussing. I am discussing the time difference it takes to get caltrops (2 hours of gameplay) compared to the exponentially higher game-play time it takes to get undaunted mettle.

Complaining about the time and effort it takes to get caltrops is a little ridiculous in my opinion is all. Anyone who can follow the leader and use the "light attack" feature can get it in two-three hours.

Emmagoldman · May 2018

On the positive side of things, if having to wait for a que to play pvp for a couple of hours to get caltrops is the worst thing going on, life aint that bad!

Joy_Division · May 2018

ZeroXFF wrote: »

To PvPers, once and for all:
Undaunted takes just a couple of days. I usually get undaunted maxed before I have all the skill points from the dungeons. Getting skill points form PvP takes a year. You are being dishonest when you compare pve and pvp by comparing caltrops to doing dungeons which also grants you 32 skill points currently for less than a day of work if you put your mind to it and gets you most of the way to getting your undaunted passives. Once I can get 32 of the pvp skill points in one day on a new character that is doing nothing more than light attacks, then we'll have a conversation about what's the worse grind.

@Aurielle
I am not stealthing in the corner, I'm doing my best to help the team, because I don't want to ruin the game for the people who actually want to play there (and I did sometimes cap even 5/5 of the relics and won the fight for the team with all 3 of the others not even daring to move away from the relic at the base). If I found 3 more people who agreed that winning doesn't matter, I definitely would just go afk for the duration of the fight, just to avoid the PvP. My time would be way better spent watching a movie or chatting with people on discord than subjecting myself to this cancer.

This is simply disingenuous. You don't need ALL the skillpoints from PvP. You do need to get to Undaunted 9.

I got caltrops, vigor, warhorn - all the PvP essentials - in two hours on a Saturday afternoon. It did not require any looking for groups, didn't need an experienced tank, didn't need a no death run, didn't have to argue with PuGs about doing that optional boss, didn't have to spend 5 mintues explaining to people every time they ran ahead and got into combat I couldn't talk the the quest lady, didn't have to do anything or require something from anyone. Is was all me and it didn't matter what I or anyone did. 2 hours. Just me. Never have to do the "cancerous" mode again.

maroite · May 2018

Seri wrote: »

maroite wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

Why did this turn into another PvE VS PvP War? O_O

When calling one of them "cancerous" in the OP, that's not entirely unexpected. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I feel the knee-jerk, defensive response of PvPers kind of solidified his opinion though. lol

And yet it was the PvE player who called names first... strange.

Aurielle wrote: »

ayu_fever wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

To PvPers, once and for all:
Undaunted takes just a couple of days. I usually get undaunted maxed before I have all the skill points from the dungeons. Getting skill points form PvP takes a year. You are being dishonest when you compare pve and pvp by comparing caltrops to doing dungeons which also grants you 32 skill points currently for less than a day of work if you put your mind to it and gets you most of the way to getting your undaunted passives. Once I can get 32 of the pvp skill points in one day on a new character that is doing nothing more than light attacks, then we'll have a conversation about what's the worse grind.

@Aurielle
I am not stealthing in the corner, I'm doing my best to help the team, because I don't want to ruin the game for the people who actually want to play there (and I did sometimes cap even 5/5 of the relics and won the fight for the team with all 3 of the others not even daring to move away from the relic at the base). If I found 3 more people who agreed that winning doesn't matter, I definitely would just go afk for the duration of the fight, just to avoid the PvP. My time would be way better spent watching a movie or chatting with people on discord than subjecting myself to this cancer.

bravo good chap!!!
i like you.
well said!
i hate pvp with a passion as well, and i AFK’d my share of battlegrounds getting guaranteed 7k AP each game for those certain skills we all know and love.
like it not pvp’ers, my pve people are FORCED into pvp.
of course the pvp’ers like it. we are easy prey to kill. they want us in there for that reason.
imagine a cyrodiil full of only fierce pvp’ers, and then ESO would be unplayable for the good guys (pve players) because of their precious nerfs all for the sake of “balance” (or is it all about that K/D?)
#PVEplayersmatter

I'm an ESO player. I do all content: trials, dungeons, and PVP. In order to be good at all of those roles (yes, including PVP!), I have to do ALL content. Gee, it's almost like the developers wanted their players to experience their entire product! Edit: also, afk'ing in Battlegrounds is a ***, *** thing to do. How would you like it if I rocked into a vet dungeon in PVP gear and light attacked my way through it? Same thing.

You'd get booted, obviously (and it would be the PvP players fault for not gearing up correctly)

I agree that people AFK-ing in the corner of a BG is pretty bad. I ran a couple the other day and had someone say they were new and mostly after AP, but they jumped in and tried - I'm perfectly fine with that. The exact same match, someone just crouched in the corner, occasionally moving to avoid a timeout.

He actually never called anyone a name in his first post, he just negatively described PVP

Pastas wrote: »

maroite wrote: »

Pastas wrote: »

Prospero_ESO wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Game crashes in the middle of a match, I log back in, I'm not in the BG any more, got no AP and can't queue for a new match because I'm apparently a "deserter". It's bad enough that mandatory PvE skills and skill points are hidden behind a cancerous game mode, but the players also have to be punished for the mistakes of the devs. Awesome.

/rant

You’re the type who just stealths out in a corner for the easy AP, aren’t you? I agree that the deserter penalty for crashes is annoying, but knock off the complaining about being “forced” to PVP. My PVP characters have to PVE for Undaunted Mettle, which is a WAY longer grind, so don’t act as though you’re so hard done by. It’s not a mistake by the devs: they actually (gasp!) want players to try out ALL the game’s content.

There are certain classes that need skills from the pvp skill lines if they want to raid, they are simply to good not to have, War Horn and Purge for example. Your analogy with pve is simply bs, ESO has been and will ever be a PvE game mainly, so complaining about pve is kinda dumb tbh. But i give you that, forcing people to a certain game style is simply not good design 2018, be it pvp or pve.

The fact that you only play/enjoy PvE content doesn't convert ESO into a PvE game. PvP has been part of the game since realese. Lot of people like playing PvE and PvP, like me, and I have never understood that stupid PvE/PvP war on forums.

He did say "mainly." ESO is mainly a PvE game, for better or worse. I also think the OP's issue is that some of the best PvE skills are locked behind having to PVP.

The game is mainly PvE for YOU. I know lot of players who does't do PvE unless they need to farm some skills/gear.

When was the last time they added new PvP content for the game? And when was the last time they added new PvE?

Did Morrowind add extensive PVP content? Will Summerset?

ToRelax · May 2018

maroite wrote: »

Pastas wrote: »

maroite wrote: »

Pastas wrote: »

Prospero_ESO wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Game crashes in the middle of a match, I log back in, I'm not in the BG any more, got no AP and can't queue for a new match because I'm apparently a "deserter". It's bad enough that mandatory PvE skills and skill points are hidden behind a cancerous game mode, but the players also have to be punished for the mistakes of the devs. Awesome.

/rant

You’re the type who just stealths out in a corner for the easy AP, aren’t you? I agree that the deserter penalty for crashes is annoying, but knock off the complaining about being “forced” to PVP. My PVP characters have to PVE for Undaunted Mettle, which is a WAY longer grind, so don’t act as though you’re so hard done by. It’s not a mistake by the devs: they actually (gasp!) want players to try out ALL the game’s content.

There are certain classes that need skills from the pvp skill lines if they want to raid, they are simply to good not to have, War Horn and Purge for example. Your analogy with pve is simply bs, ESO has been and will ever be a PvE game mainly, so complaining about pve is kinda dumb tbh. But i give you that, forcing people to a certain game style is simply not good design 2018, be it pvp or pve.

The fact that you only play/enjoy PvE content doesn't convert ESO into a PvE game. PvP has been part of the game since realese. Lot of people like playing PvE and PvP, like me, and I have never understood that stupid PvE/PvP war on forums.

He did say "mainly." ESO is mainly a PvE game, for better or worse. I also think the OP's issue is that some of the best PvE skills are locked behind having to PVP.

The game is mainly PvE for YOU. I know lot of players who does't do PvE unless they need to farm some skills/gear.

When was the last time they added new PvP content for the game? And when was the last time they added new PvE?

Did Morrowind add extensive PVP content? Will Summerset?

Morrowind did, actually. Summerset won't. But PvP isn't nearly as reliant on new content as PvE.

jssriot · May 2018

Apache_Kid wrote: »

I mean, yeah it sucks when you get the penalty due to a game crash but idk why you feel the need to refer to PvP as cancerous...

Literally the bestest thing about ESO pvp is being in discord and having to read/listen to pvp'ers talk about what they think is cancerous in PVP. The list includes, but is not limited to:

-other factions
-specific campaigns
-specific guilds
-specific players
-specific builds
-specific skills/abilities
-specific gear
-specific monster sets
-CP
-zone chat generals
-zone chat, period
-population imbalances
-IC
-zergs (real and imaginary)
-PUGs
-"PUG herders"
-players who don't really want to pvp and just do quests, reps, keep defense or resource flipping for AP and want to be left alone
-1vXers
-"PvDoor"
-AvA in general
-specific aspects of the Cyro map
-Battlegrounds in general
-premade Battleground groups
-ZOS
-bugs, hacks, cheats, etc

Pvp'ers themselves indirectly acknowledge it's cancerous af, and are likewise eager to point the finger at anyone or anything but themselves.

Apache_Kid · May 2018

jssriot wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

I mean, yeah it sucks when you get the penalty due to a game crash but idk why you feel the need to refer to PvP as cancerous...

Literally the bestest thing about ESO pvp is being in discord and having to read/listen to pvp'ers talk about what they think is cancerous in PVP. The list includes, but is not limited to:

-other factions
-specific campaigns
-specific guilds
-specific players
-specific builds
-specific skills/abilities
-specific gear
-specific monster sets
-CP
-zone chat generals
-zone chat, period
-population imbalances
-IC
-zergs (real and imaginary)
-PUGs
-"PUG herders"
-players who don't really want to pvp and just do quests, reps, keep defense or resource flipping for AP and want to be left alone
-1vXers
-"PvDoor"
-AvA in general
-specific aspects of the Cyro map
-Battlegrounds in general
-premade Battleground groups
-ZOS
-bugs, hacks, cheats, etc

Pvp'ers themselves indirectly acknowledge it's cancerous af, and are likewise eager to point the finger at anyone or anything but themselves.

So you're telling me PvP has issues.

I got news for ya, so does PvE.

Skills and builds and gear, zone chat, group finder, PUGS, ZOS, bugs, like literally everything you mentioned lmaoooo.

My point is that nothing in a video game is really "cancerous" and even if it was, PvP is no more "cancerous" by your definition than PvE.

Exalted_Goose · May 2018

jssriot wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

*Snip*

So you're telling me PvP has issues.

I got news for ya, so does PvE.

Skills and builds and gear, zone chat, group finder, PUGS, ZOS, bugs, like literally everything you mentioned lmaoooo.

My point is that nothing in a video game is really "cancerous" and even if it was, PvP is no more "cancerous" by your definition than PvE.

I don't even think it's that. I just think it's the nature of a PvP game-mode. Naturally, PvP is far more competitive than PvE, due to the fact that you're fighting real-time with other people, (instead of indirectly battling it out for positions on a leaderboard); people will just try to alleviate the blame for their death onto other things. It happens in literally every other game with elements of PvP to it - I played a lot of PlanetSide 2, (a game with no PvE elements whatsoever), and at least 70% of that snipped list mirrors the scapegoat excuses that players blamed for their deaths.

It's not that PvP is, "Cancerous", at all - it's just people getting very much into it, and having a bit of a whinge when they die, thence seeking every little tiny detail that they can find onto which to pin the blame. I'm guilty of it, as are probably 95% of other PvP'ers. That's not to say that PvP is without its problems; I agree with you Apache - just because something has problems, that doesn't make it, "Cancerous".

xeNNNNN · May 2018

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Game crashes in the middle of a match, I log back in, I'm not in the BG any more, got no AP and can't queue for a new match because I'm apparently a "deserter". It's bad enough that mandatory PvE skills and skill points are hidden behind a cancerous game mode, but the players also have to be punished for the mistakes of the devs. Awesome.

/rant

errrr they're not hidden behind a "mode" they're just a reason for people to pvp. The same way in which pve things encourage pvpers to go pve.

Sets that drop etc hell a vast majority of the content is pve I really dont see the problem here save you know one whining person whose computer isn't exactly able to run the game smoothly.

The only time I crash is ...well I dont...and I only ever have to restart the game in cyrodil because of loading screens.

MalakithAlamahdi · May 2018

Getting the skill points by completing every dung

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

To PvPers, once and for all:
Undaunted takes just a couple of days. I usually get undaunted maxed before I have all the skill points from the dungeons. Getting skill points form PvP takes a year. You are being dishonest when you compare pve and pvp by comparing caltrops to doing dungeons which also grants you 32 skill points currently for less than a day of work if you put your mind to it and gets you most of the way to getting your undaunted passives. Once I can get 32 of the pvp skill points in one day on a new character that is doing nothing more than light attacks, then we'll have a conversation about what's the worse grind.

@Aurielle
I am not stealthing in the corner, I'm doing my best to help the team, because I don't want to ruin the game for the people who actually want to play there (and I did sometimes cap even 5/5 of the relics and won the fight for the team with all 3 of the others not even daring to move away from the relic at the base). If I found 3 more people who agreed that winning doesn't matter, I definitely would just go afk for the duration of the fight, just to avoid the PvP. My time would be way better spent watching a movie or chatting with people on discord than subjecting myself to this cancer.

Getting caltrops takes a couple of hours.

And you didn't read the rest. Yet another example of a dishonest PvPer. Way to perpetuate the stereotype.

I play both PvP and PvE equally. And the 32 skill points is completely irrelevant. We are discussing the leveling of skill lines, not the rate at which you acquire skill points.

I read your whole post. The part i bolded is the only part relevant to our discussion.

Are you suggesting that skill points are irrelevant to PvE? Because I'm not discussing skills, I'm discussing what you have to do in PvP to be as effective as possible in PvE, and skill points are a big part of that.

You don't need the skillpoints PvP provides, 95% of the skillpoints come from PvE content. I don't even have all the PvP skillpoints and I got like 30 skillpoints left on my main, which has every crafting skill line filled and all the regular stuff.

ShadowMonarch · May 2018

My pvp characters are FORCED to get skyshards, lorebooks, undaunted passives, and even worse.... Almost every gear set for pvp comes from PVE!!!! ITS SO CANCEROUS that I am forced to do boring faceroll, no skill needed, no challenge what so ever.... pve.

ZeroXFF · May 2018

To address the yOu DoNt NeEd PvP sKiLl PoInTs In PvE bregade, here is my tank with stam DD off-spec (0/351 skill points available):

Why would I ever need to morph Dawnbreaker, right?

Or have it do more damage to daedra, since we know that no mobs ever are daedra?

No, never need to morph Meteor either, because all fights are the same and require exactly the same skills, right?

Wait, is that a PvP skill needed in PvE that requires cancer rank 9? But I thought it's just about caltrops?

But you surely must be a crafter! No, not really, only a blacksmith.

But still, you can easily get the points you still need from PvE! Oh, wait...

And Jewelry Crafting and Psijic Order skill lines are definitely not coming next patch at all...

Joy_Division · May 2018

ZeroXFF wrote: »

To address the yOu DoNt NeEd PvP sKiLl PoInTs In PvE bregade, here is my tank with stam DD off-spec (0/351 skill points available):

Why would I ever need to morph Dawnbreaker, right?

Or have it do more damage to daedra, since we know that no mobs ever are daedra?

No, never need to morph Meteor either, because all fights are the same and require exactly the same skills, right?

Wait, is that a PvP skill needed in PvE that requires cancer rank 9? But I thought it's just about caltrops?

But you surely must be a crafter! No, not really, only a blacksmith.

But still, you can easily get the points you still need from PvE! Oh, wait...

And Jewelry Crafting and Psijic Order skill lines are definitely not coming next patch at all...

No wonder why you're so grumpy.

No, you don't need those skill points. You want those skill points because you want the same character to tank, DPS, craft everything in the game, and be ready for every single eventuality all on the same toon. If you hate "cancerous PvP so much, you should have done what everyone else did and make an alt crafter and free yourself up a 100 skill points or so.

ZeroXFF · May 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

To address the yOu DoNt NeEd PvP sKiLl PoInTs In PvE bregade, here is my tank with stam DD off-spec (0/351 skill points available):

Why would I ever need to morph Dawnbreaker, right?

Or have it do more damage to daedra, since we know that no mobs ever are daedra?

No, never need to morph Meteor either, because all fights are the same and require exactly the same skills, right?

Wait, is that a PvP skill needed in PvE that requires cancer rank 9? But I thought it's just about caltrops?

But you surely must be a crafter! No, not really, only a blacksmith.

But still, you can easily get the points you still need from PvE! Oh, wait...

And Jewelry Crafting and Psijic Order skill lines are definitely not coming next patch at all...

No wonder why you're so grumpy.

No, you don't need those skill points. You want those skill points because you want the same character to tank, DPS, craft everything in the game, and be ready for every single eventuality all on the same toon. If you hate "cancerous PvP so much, you should have done what everyone else did and make an alt crafter and free yourself up a 100 skill points or so.

This char isn't a crafter though. Getting all I need to get hirelings takes 51 point. I wouldn't free up anywhere near 100 points if I dropped all crafting points save for the alchemy and provisioning passives and what I need for hirelings. Yet another PvPer who thinks that the game is one-dimensional, and all anyone ever wants to do is one single thing.

Aurielle · May 2018

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

To address the yOu DoNt NeEd PvP sKiLl PoInTs In PvE bregade, here is my tank with stam DD off-spec (0/351 skill points available):

Why would I ever need to morph Dawnbreaker, right?

Or have it do more damage to daedra, since we know that no mobs ever are daedra?

No, never need to morph Meteor either, because all fights are the same and require exactly the same skills, right?

Wait, is that a PvP skill needed in PvE that requires cancer rank 9? But I thought it's just about caltrops?

But you surely must be a crafter! No, not really, only a blacksmith.

But still, you can easily get the points you still need from PvE! Oh, wait...

And Jewelry Crafting and Psijic Order skill lines are definitely not coming next patch at all...

No wonder why you're so grumpy.

No, you don't need those skill points. You want those skill points because you want the same character to tank, DPS, craft everything in the game, and be ready for every single eventuality all on the same toon. If you hate "cancerous PvP so much, you should have done what everyone else did and make an alt crafter and free yourself up a 100 skill points or so.

This char isn't a crafter though. Getting all I need to get hirelings takes 51 point. I wouldn't free up anywhere near 100 points if I dropped all crafting points save for the alchemy and provisioning passives and what I need for hirelings. Yet another PvPer who thinks that the game is one-dimensional, and all anyone ever wants to do is one single thing.

My main character is set up for PVE endgame, as well a few “off” roles. It’s also my main crafter. It’s only rank 7 in PVP. I have 25 residual skill points, and I haven’t collected all skyshards yet, or completed every quest that grants a skill point. However, I also don’t spend points on unnecessary skills...

I guarantee you that if you respecced and only spent points on skills you actually need, you’d have more than enough skill points and would not have to subject yourself to the “cancer” you hate so much.