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Rework the barely used Fighter's Guild ability Evil Hunter
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Twohothardware✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭My biggest issue with expert hunter - specifically the evil hunter morph - is that it's a 5 second ability that costs an absolutely massive amount of stamina, and then reduces fighter's guild costs by 25% while active.
In 5 seconds, you're not going to be using more than 2 or 3 fighter's guild abilities (and certainly not on a dps character), so the 25% cost reduction doesnt even make up for the cost of activating evil hunter in the first place.
What Fighters Guild skills is there that people even use besides Trap Beast? And you're not going to cast that more than once. So the entire point of the morph is just dumb.2 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Twohothardware wrote: »My biggest issue with expert hunter - specifically the evil hunter morph - is that it's a 5 second ability that costs an absolutely massive amount of stamina, and then reduces fighter's guild costs by 25% while active.
In 5 seconds, you're not going to be using more than 2 or 3 fighter's guild abilities (and certainly not on a dps character), so the 25% cost reduction doesnt even make up for the cost of activating evil hunter in the first place.
What Fighters Guild skills is there that people even use besides Trap Beast? And you're not going to cast that more than once. So the entire point of the morph is just dumb.
If it didn't cost stupid amounts of Stamina, Evil Hunter might have had some use with Tanks + Silver Leash.Argonian forever2 -
TankHealz2015✭✭✭
Mostly I just want to be able to spec build/ RP a Vampire or Were-creature hunter-killer character.
That would be effective in both PvE and PvP0 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Silver_Strider wrote: »Twohothardware wrote: »My biggest issue with expert hunter - specifically the evil hunter morph - is that it's a 5 second ability that costs an absolutely massive amount of stamina, and then reduces fighter's guild costs by 25% while active.
In 5 seconds, you're not going to be using more than 2 or 3 fighter's guild abilities (and certainly not on a dps character), so the 25% cost reduction doesnt even make up for the cost of activating evil hunter in the first place.
What Fighters Guild skills is there that people even use besides Trap Beast? And you're not going to cast that more than once. So the entire point of the morph is just dumb.
If it didn't cost stupid amounts of Stamina, Evil Hunter might have had some use with Tanks + Silver Leash.
Or with Silver Shards as a ranged semi spammable. But the cost is insane, I used to use Silver Shards all the time in PVP. And even occasionally in PVE if the dungeon had a large quantity of undead. Now I don't touch it, the damage is laughable considering the cost.Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..0 -
mr_wazzabi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Twohothardware wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Agreed, evil hunter need a rework. Which one, that is a good question.
A lot of people have asked for rally to move in the fighter guild's tree and I think it can be a good idea. Why not fusing evil hunter's passive buff with rally ? While stamsorc and stamDK already have major brutality, it would give every stam class a heal, major brutality and the snare removal which would give serious advantage for DW in pvp and give a new slot for a good skill in the 2H tree (preferably a skill useful for pve).
You understand how over loaded a skill that provides, major brut, major sav, stamina heal is right? That idea alone goes against the entirety of established ability weights in this game.
And that isnt even humoring your thinking that rally also comes with the snare removal (that is the other morph), so in your head you wanted a skill that provided major sav, major brut, stamina heal and snare removal / immunty...........
You are crazy amigo.
Moving Rally to the Fighter's Guild line would never work because there's nothing to stop Magicka classes from using it as well. As I said in the other thread that was suggesting this idea, imagine MagSorc's that on top of everything else would then have forward momentum to remove all snares.
But Rally is a stam skill, so unless they're a hybrid build with Pelinals or Shaklebreaker, magicka classes would gimp themselves by using it.Edited by mr_wazzabi on May 5, 2018 5:54PMBosmer Stamina NB
Altmer Magicka TEMP
Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
Altmer Magicka NB
Breton Magicka Sorc
Redguard Stam Sorc
Max CP0 -
Twohothardware✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭mr_wazzabi wrote: »Twohothardware wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Agreed, evil hunter need a rework. Which one, that is a good question.
A lot of people have asked for rally to move in the fighter guild's tree and I think it can be a good idea. Why not fusing evil hunter's passive buff with rally ? While stamsorc and stamDK already have major brutality, it would give every stam class a heal, major brutality and the snare removal which would give serious advantage for DW in pvp and give a new slot for a good skill in the 2H tree (preferably a skill useful for pve).
You understand how over loaded a skill that provides, major brut, major sav, stamina heal is right? That idea alone goes against the entirety of established ability weights in this game.
And that isnt even humoring your thinking that rally also comes with the snare removal (that is the other morph), so in your head you wanted a skill that provided major sav, major brut, stamina heal and snare removal / immunty...........
You are crazy amigo.
Moving Rally to the Fighter's Guild line would never work because there's nothing to stop Magicka classes from using it as well. As I said in the other thread that was suggesting this idea, imagine MagSorc's that on top of everything else would then have forward momentum to remove all snares.
But Rally is a stam skill, so unless they're a hybrid build with Pelinals or Shaklebreaker, magicka classes would gimp themselves by using it.
Forward Momentum has a low cost and would be easy for a MagSorc with tri stat food and Dark Conversion to sustain.0 -
jediprime74✭✭✭I'd like to see Evil Hunter have greater functionality as well. Lets do a complete breakdown of Evil Hunter and Radiant Magelight.
1) Radius/Range: EH - 6m; RM - 12m
2) Duration: EH - 5s; RM - 5s
3) Passive buff: EH - Major Savagery; RM - Major Prophecy
4) Cost: EH - 5400 Stamina; RM - 3421 Magicka
5)Additional effects: EH - While Active - reduced cost of FG abilities for 5 seconds; RM - While Slotted - Prevents stun from stealth attacks for you and nearby allies.
6) Passive benefits while slotted: EH - 3% Weapon Damage; RM - 2% Max Magicka/Magicka Recovery.
In short, the only reason a person would run Evil Hunter over Radiant Magelight is for the 3% extra Weapon Damage. Even stamina builds are forced to use Radiant Magelight due to its significantly better utility.
To bring the Expert Hunter morph into line with Radiant Magelight I believe Evil Hunter's range should be doubled, and that in lieu of the reduction of FG ability cost it should either have the stun protection that Radiant Magelight provides or perhaps a damage buff of some type against revealed enemies. Evil Hunter should get the 2% Max Stamina/Stamina Recovery that Radiant Magelight enjoys as well.
In any event, Evil Hunter is a poor substitute for Radiant Magelight, and there is no reason a stamina build should be forced to run a magicka ability because the stamina version is so ridiculously eclipsed by that magicka ability.
Edited by jediprime74 on May 5, 2018 9:57PMGuildmaster of Fool's Errand, PvX/social, beginner to endgame Guild.
Guildmaster of Fools for the Pact an Ebonheart Pact PvP Guild.2 -
Thannazzar✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's quite effective in daedric dungeons. Vaults of madness with a prismatic weapon, all fighters guild powers on your bar, using evil hunter and spamming silver shards is great. 60k on mobs and with VO and Evil Hunter no sustain issueso.1 -
DuskMarine✭✭✭✭✭
✭Twohothardware wrote: »This skill is only slotted for Major Savagery which classes like StamWarden and StamTemplar already get from using their own class skills. The two classes most likely to use Evil Hunter are StamDK or StamSorc because they lack any source of Major or Minor Savagery.
Evil Hunter should continue to give Major Savagery but it needs to do something else instead of reveal stealthed targets for the amount of Stamina it costs to activate. Inner Light reveals stealthed targets, gives 8% max Magicka, gives Major Sorcerory, and procs Empower.
theres no use for anything in the fighters guild tree(even post summerset) outside of dawnbreaker and trap beast. that whole tree is worthless except those 2 skills.1 -
jeskah✭✭✭Bring back old EH maybe? On activation percentage chance of damage and stamina return. Was good and in todays resource-problematic environment would be handy.0
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Lynx7386✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DuskMarine wrote: »Twohothardware wrote: »This skill is only slotted for Major Savagery which classes like StamWarden and StamTemplar already get from using their own class skills. The two classes most likely to use Evil Hunter are StamDK or StamSorc because they lack any source of Major or Minor Savagery.
Evil Hunter should continue to give Major Savagery but it needs to do something else instead of reveal stealthed targets for the amount of Stamina it costs to activate. Inner Light reveals stealthed targets, gives 8% max Magicka, gives Major Sorcerory, and procs Empower.
theres no use for anything in the fighters guild tree(even post summerset) outside of dawnbreaker and trap beast. that whole tree is worthless except those 2 skills.
Silver leash is useful for non-dk/warden tanks now, at least.PS4 / NA
M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Twohothardware wrote: »This skill is only slotted for Major Savagery which classes like StamWarden and StamTemplar already get from using their own class skills. The two classes most likely to use Evil Hunter are StamDK or StamSorc because they lack any source of Major or Minor Savagery.
Evil Hunter should continue to give Major Savagery but it needs to do something else instead of reveal stealthed targets for the amount of Stamina it costs to activate. Inner Light reveals stealthed targets, gives 8% max Magicka, gives Major Sorcerory, and procs Empower.
Stam DK gets major savagery by slotting FoOSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique1 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Twohothardware wrote: »Twohothardware wrote: »Evil Hunter is an awesome utility skill and I slot it at least 50% of the time in both pve and pvp. It works great to reveal hidden enemies in pvp. Yes, it gives major savagery but it also ups my crit quite a bit! I think anyone who wants it nerfed knows that it is useful against their pvp build OR hasn"t figured out how and when this utility skill is best used
You also gain Minor Berserk for 5 seconds after you deal Critical Damage from Sneak, increasing your damage done by 8%
That's exactly what Major Savagery is, it gives you an extra 2191 critical chance percent. I don't think anyone has ever even thought about asking for it to be nerfed, my suggestion is it needs to be redone because so few people actually use it outside of limited cases like in PvP for a StamDK or StamSorc when you're wearing heavy armor and have low crit chance. Evil Hunter has no value at all on classes like Templar and Warden that already have access to Major Savagery.
DK has major savagery too, with fireball
Flames of Oblivion costs Magicka to cast, something StamDK doesn't have enough to go around with all the other Magicka based skills. FoO damage is also underwhelming and the fireball floating over your head animation even looks dumb IMO. It's another skill like Evil Hunter that's good for nothing but Major Savagery.
FoO major savagery is granted just by slotting it. It's stamplars who get it by using jabs...
Besides the dmg of the fireball escalates with stamina if higher. What you could possibly lose is the Elemental Expert bonus, but seriously, that bonus is just a 10% even in a magicka builld (Nobody puts more than 43 points in Elemental Expert, even magicka builds).
Now, if you find the skil dumb... let me tell you, it also attacks hidden enemies, so its like an expert hunter/mage light that last 15 secs (and not 5) and actually do dmgSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique1 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Twohothardware wrote: »This skill is only slotted for Major Savagery which classes like StamWarden and StamTemplar already get from using their own class skills. The two classes most likely to use Evil Hunter are StamDK or StamSorc because they lack any source of Major or Minor Savagery.
Evil Hunter should continue to give Major Savagery but it needs to do something else instead of reveal stealthed targets for the amount of Stamina it costs to activate. Inner Light reveals stealthed targets, gives 8% max Magicka, gives Major Sorcerory, and procs Empower.
Also only reveals for an extremely small radius around you.
PC EU
PvP only1 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I like it. Still a part of the way I do my StamSorc build.Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis0 -
Twohothardware✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Twohothardware wrote: »Twohothardware wrote: »Evil Hunter is an awesome utility skill and I slot it at least 50% of the time in both pve and pvp. It works great to reveal hidden enemies in pvp. Yes, it gives major savagery but it also ups my crit quite a bit! I think anyone who wants it nerfed knows that it is useful against their pvp build OR hasn"t figured out how and when this utility skill is best used
You also gain Minor Berserk for 5 seconds after you deal Critical Damage from Sneak, increasing your damage done by 8%
That's exactly what Major Savagery is, it gives you an extra 2191 critical chance percent. I don't think anyone has ever even thought about asking for it to be nerfed, my suggestion is it needs to be redone because so few people actually use it outside of limited cases like in PvP for a StamDK or StamSorc when you're wearing heavy armor and have low crit chance. Evil Hunter has no value at all on classes like Templar and Warden that already have access to Major Savagery.
DK has major savagery too, with fireball
Flames of Oblivion costs Magicka to cast, something StamDK doesn't have enough to go around with all the other Magicka based skills. FoO damage is also underwhelming and the fireball floating over your head animation even looks dumb IMO. It's another skill like Evil Hunter that's good for nothing but Major Savagery.
FoO major savagery is granted just by slotting it. It's stamplars who get it by using jabs...
Besides the dmg of the fireball escalates with stamina if higher. What you could possibly lose is the Elemental Expert bonus, but seriously, that bonus is just a 10% even in a magicka builld (Nobody puts more than 43 points in Elemental Expert, even magicka builds).
Now, if you find the skil dumb... let me tell you, it also attacks hidden enemies, so its like an expert hunter/mage light that last 15 secs (and not 5) and actually do dmg
Yes but the problem with FoO is that it is still a Magicka cost skill to activate. When you've got other skills like Spiked Armor, Dragon Blood, Wings, Obsidian Shield, ect which all cost Magicka you don't have the Magicka pool on a StamDK to also make use of FoO.
With StamDK you have a lot of utility in skills but you're forced to just pick a couple that you want to use instead of being able to make use of all of them which is what puts StamDK behind other classes that have those same utilities all condensed into a couple of skills or passives or their version costs Stamina instead of Magicka.Edited by Twohothardware on May 6, 2018 5:56PM2 -
Ladislao✭✭✭✭✭DuskMarine wrote: »Twohothardware wrote: »This skill is only slotted for Major Savagery which classes like StamWarden and StamTemplar already get from using their own class skills. The two classes most likely to use Evil Hunter are StamDK or StamSorc because they lack any source of Major or Minor Savagery.
Evil Hunter should continue to give Major Savagery but it needs to do something else instead of reveal stealthed targets for the amount of Stamina it costs to activate. Inner Light reveals stealthed targets, gives 8% max Magicka, gives Major Sorcerory, and procs Empower.
theres no use for anything in the fighters guild tree(even post summerset) outside of dawnbreaker and trap beast. that whole tree is worthless except those 2 skills.
Yea, you are right. There is nothing useful, except Dawnbreaker, Silver Bolts, Circle of Protection, Trap Beast (also Expert Hunter in very niche cases) and bunch of passives. Totally trash.No
Everything is viable0 -
Twohothardware✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DuskMarine wrote: »Twohothardware wrote: »This skill is only slotted for Major Savagery which classes like StamWarden and StamTemplar already get from using their own class skills. The two classes most likely to use Evil Hunter are StamDK or StamSorc because they lack any source of Major or Minor Savagery.
Evil Hunter should continue to give Major Savagery but it needs to do something else instead of reveal stealthed targets for the amount of Stamina it costs to activate. Inner Light reveals stealthed targets, gives 8% max Magicka, gives Major Sorcerory, and procs Empower.
theres no use for anything in the fighters guild tree(even post summerset) outside of dawnbreaker and trap beast. that whole tree is worthless except those 2 skills.
Yea, you are right. There is nothing useful, except Dawnbreaker, Silver Bolts, Circle of Protection, Trap Beast (also Expert Hunter in very niche cases) and bunch of passives. Totally trash.No
ZOS has the numbers, I'll bet you not even 1% of the ESO player base has Silver Bolts or Circle of Protection slotted. Circle of Protection costs an obscene amount of Stamina just to get Minor Protection and Minor Endurance in a 5m radius. Minor Protection is built into much cheaper default skills like Ice Fortress for Warden and Rune for Templar.0 -
ArtOfShred✭✭✭Kinda wish they'd bring back a morph that has a useful effect with a longer duration. I miss running around with a purple blade smashing evil entities.
I'd like to see the following changes, or something similiar:
Evil Hunter: Remove stealth detection + add on activation 30 second duration: +5% damage vs Daedra/Undead/WW
Expert Hunter/Camouflaged Hunter - Double radius to match Magelight.
Camouflaged Hunter: Longer duration minor berserk, maybe 12-15 seconds.0 -
Gallagher563✭✭✭Circle of protection needs a serious rework. I would prefer they just replace it with a heal over time and major brutality.0
