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34k EZ DPS with S&B so why we nerfing strife???
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exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring game.
First and foremost, easy sustain / affordable spells was never thier identity. That contrast is not accurate especially when you are placing it against sorc shields or burst heals from a templar (which isnt even a templars identity either but im not going to get into that here). Magblades have always had unique ability in damage /healing synergy (soul tether / soul siphon, refreshing path, strife, sap essense). And that is only one aspect of the class, so trying to compartmentalize clases into strict singular representations is silly.
Magicka dps builds running similar setups does steal some wind out of the sails as far as class themes go, but sorcs can say the same thing in that they wish to have a class spammable (and often have). You want magblade to not be a sorc clone because sorcs have to use force pulse therefore force pulse is automatically a sorc ability and anyone else using it becomes a sorc clone? ...... Twisting path vs liquid lightning, Frag vs Will, wrath vs impale etc etc, these are the individualizers, because two different classes make use of WoE and force pulse does not make them clones, and likewise, if THAT is your argument, take it to a thread discussing the universal potency of the destro skill line or why each and every class in the game doesnt have a magicka equivalent to WoE and force pulse and take note of the feedback you get.
If you value the strength of healing while dealing damage, generating additional ultimate, and having your overall healing increased (which is perfectly designed in line with magblades life stealing, fearing shadow magick-esque thematics) then you will slot it over the available force pulse, which is designated as a strong tri elemental beam (not in any way whatsoever thematic to sorcs specifically) that is tied to a universally available skill line. Resource costs has nothing to do with it, not anymore.Edited by exeeter702 on May 5, 2018 6:17PM3 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring and unimaginative game.
Sustain being class identity I don't even...2 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring game.
First and foremost, easy sustain / affordable spells was never thier identity. That contrast is not accurate especially when you are placing it against sorc shields or burst heals from a templar (which isnt even a templars identity either but im not going to get into that here). Magblades have always had unique ability in damage /healing synergy (soul tether / soul siphon, refreshing path, strife, sap essense). And that is only one aspect of the class, so trying to compartmentalize clases into strict singular representations is silly.
Magicka dps builds running similar setups does steal some wind out of the sails as far as class themes go, but sorcs can same the same thing (and often have). You want magblade to not be a sorc clone because sorcs have to use force pulse therefore force pulse is automatically a sorc ability, Twisting path vs liquid lightning, Frag vs Will, wrath vs impale etc etc, these are the individualizers, because to different classes make use of WoE and force pulse does not make them clones, amd likewise, if THAT is your argument, take it to a thread discussing the universal potency of the destro skill line or why each and every class in the game doesnt have a magicka equivalent to WoE and force pulse and take not of the feedback you get.
The you value the strength of healing while dealing damage, generating additional ultimate, and having your overall healing increased (which is perfectly designed in line with magblades life stealing, fearing shadow magick-esque thematics) then you will slot it over the available force pulse, which is designated as a strong tri elemental beam (not in any way whatsoever thematic to sorcs specifically). Resource costs has nothing to do with it.
Yes it was. hence why Strife originally cost like what like 900 something magicka and Siphion attacks resorted 1000 magicka and stamina per light attack. nightblade has always been about resources, saying otherwise means you don't really know the class very well. resources is where the classes strength is, it's where their strength was meant to be. it makes up a big part of their identity it's the basis for how they play just like every other class has their individual strength which is the basis for how they play. and if any other class faced a similar blow to their identity, i would not be in favor of it, it's a bad direction for the game to go in.
the thing is the rotaion is just too simular when you replace strife with force pulse.
magblade: cripple > light attack > force pulse > light attack > assassins will > impale
Sorc: Curse > light attack > force pulse > light attack > frag > mages wrath
that's basically an identical rotation a massive problem for individuality or classes.
the healing from strife is not something that cannot be replaced by another ability. the ultimate generation comes for using a siphoning ability of which strife is not the only ability you can use either. so no, everything about strife can be replaced.exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring and unimaginative game.
Sustain being class identity I don't even...
You "don't even" what?, pay attention?. apparently not.
resources has been the foundation for nightblades since 1.6 when i started playing the game this is not new or something i just made up today. NB's strength being in their resources has been true for a very long time.Edited by Lucky28 on May 5, 2018 6:40PMInvictus1 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring game.
First and foremost, easy sustain / affordable spells was never thier identity. That contrast is not accurate especially when you are placing it against sorc shields or burst heals from a templar (which isnt even a templars identity either but im not going to get into that here). Magblades have always had unique ability in damage /healing synergy (soul tether / soul siphon, refreshing path, strife, sap essense). And that is only one aspect of the class, so trying to compartmentalize clases into strict singular representations is silly.
Magicka dps builds running similar setups does steal some wind out of the sails as far as class themes go, but sorcs can same the same thing (and often have). You want magblade to not be a sorc clone because sorcs have to use force pulse therefore force pulse is automatically a sorc ability, Twisting path vs liquid lightning, Frag vs Will, wrath vs impale etc etc, these are the individualizers, because to different classes make use of WoE and force pulse does not make them clones, amd likewise, if THAT is your argument, take it to a thread discussing the universal potency of the destro skill line or why each and every class in the game doesnt have a magicka equivalent to WoE and force pulse and take not of the feedback you get.
The you value the strength of healing while dealing damage, generating additional ultimate, and having your overall healing increased (which is perfectly designed in line with magblades life stealing, fearing shadow magick-esque thematics) then you will slot it over the available force pulse, which is designated as a strong tri elemental beam (not in any way whatsoever thematic to sorcs specifically). Resource costs has nothing to do with it.
Yes it was. hence why Strife originally cost like what like 900 something magicka and Siphion attacks resorted 1000 magicka and stamina per light attack. nightblade has always been about resources, saying otherwise means you don't really know the class very well. resources is where the classes strength is, it's where their strength was meant to be. it makes up a big part of their identity it's the basis for how they play just like every other class has their individual strength which is the basis for how they play. and if any other class faced a similar blow to their identity, i would not be in favor of it, it's a bad direction for the game to go in.
the thing is the rotaion is just too simular when you replace strife with force pulse.
magblade: cripple > light attack > force pulse > light attack > assassins will > impale
Sorc: Curse > light attack > force pulse > light attack > frag > mages wrath
that's basically an identical rotation a massive problem for individuality or classes.
the healing from strife is not something that cannot be replaced by another ability. the ultimate generation comes for using a siphoning ability of which strife is not the only ability you can use either. so no, everything about strife can be replaced.exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring and unimaginative game.
Sustain being class identity I don't even...
You "don't even" what?, pay attention?. apparently not.
resources has been the foundation for nightblades since 1.6 when i started playing the game this is not new or something i just made up today. NB's strength being in their resources has been true for a very long time.
A class identity is found within the overal theme of the class, the iconic skills and effects they bring with them. The resource management of a nightblade is bound to various passives, and the sustain from siphoning attacks. Not the cost of your spammable ability.
Even on PTS, nightblades are miles ahead of other classes in terms of sustain.
Your argument is illogical and unreasonable.
At launch, DKs dominated everything in cyrodiil. Now they're weaker than they ever were. Would you say that destroyed their class identity?
Being superior is not class identity. Class identity is defined by the various class skills, passives, and their effects. Damage and cost values are open for balance changes.1 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring game.
First and foremost, easy sustain / affordable spells was never thier identity. That contrast is not accurate especially when you are placing it against sorc shields or burst heals from a templar (which isnt even a templars identity either but im not going to get into that here). Magblades have always had unique ability in damage /healing synergy (soul tether / soul siphon, refreshing path, strife, sap essense). And that is only one aspect of the class, so trying to compartmentalize clases into strict singular representations is silly.
Magicka dps builds running similar setups does steal some wind out of the sails as far as class themes go, but sorcs can same the same thing (and often have). You want magblade to not be a sorc clone because sorcs have to use force pulse therefore force pulse is automatically a sorc ability, Twisting path vs liquid lightning, Frag vs Will, wrath vs impale etc etc, these are the individualizers, because to different classes make use of WoE and force pulse does not make them clones, amd likewise, if THAT is your argument, take it to a thread discussing the universal potency of the destro skill line or why each and every class in the game doesnt have a magicka equivalent to WoE and force pulse and take not of the feedback you get.
The you value the strength of healing while dealing damage, generating additional ultimate, and having your overall healing increased (which is perfectly designed in line with magblades life stealing, fearing shadow magick-esque thematics) then you will slot it over the available force pulse, which is designated as a strong tri elemental beam (not in any way whatsoever thematic to sorcs specifically). Resource costs has nothing to do with it.
Yes it was. hence why Strife originally cost like what like 900 something magicka and Siphion attacks resorted 1000 magicka and stamina per light attack. nightblade has always been about resources, saying otherwise means you don't really know the class very well. resources is where the classes strength is, it's where their strength was meant to be. it makes up a big part of their identity it's the basis for how they play just like every other class has their individual strength which is the basis for how they play. and if any other class faced a similar blow to their identity, i would not be in favor of it, it's a bad direction for the game to go in.
the thing is the rotaion is just too simular when you replace strife with force pulse.
magblade: cripple > light attack > force pulse > light attack > assassins will > impale
Sorc: Curse > light attack > force pulse > light attack > frag > mages wrath
that's basically an identical rotation a massive problem for individuality or classes.
the healing from strife is not something that cannot be replaced by another ability. the ultimate generation comes for using a siphoning ability of which strife is not the only ability you can use either. so no, everything about strife can be replaced.exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring and unimaginative game.
Sustain being class identity I don't even...
You "don't even" what?, pay attention?. apparently not.
resources has been the foundation for nightblades since 1.6 when i started playing the game this is not new or something i just made up today. NB's strength being in their resources has been true for a very long time.
Ive been at this since day one guy. Having sustain benefits is not a defining identity of the class. NBs having cheap strife, which traditionally was NEVER slotting by magblade dps pushing pve content. Siphoning attacks (even pre nerf toggle days) and cheap strife was not different in scale with things like dark deal, repentance, battle roar or any other sustain tool thst each class had, NBs gained it in other avenues. I will repeat this again, resource sustain was NEVER a defining exclusive perk or identity of the nightblade. Cheapend costs and siphoning attacks was their analogue to other classes reduced cost passives and active alternatives to managing resources.Edited by exeeter702 on May 5, 2018 6:58PM1 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring game.
First and foremost, easy sustain / affordable spells was never thier identity. That contrast is not accurate especially when you are placing it against sorc shields or burst heals from a templar (which isnt even a templars identity either but im not going to get into that here). Magblades have always had unique ability in damage /healing synergy (soul tether / soul siphon, refreshing path, strife, sap essense). And that is only one aspect of the class, so trying to compartmentalize clases into strict singular representations is silly.
Magicka dps builds running similar setups does steal some wind out of the sails as far as class themes go, but sorcs can same the same thing (and often have). You want magblade to not be a sorc clone because sorcs have to use force pulse therefore force pulse is automatically a sorc ability, Twisting path vs liquid lightning, Frag vs Will, wrath vs impale etc etc, these are the individualizers, because to different classes make use of WoE and force pulse does not make them clones, amd likewise, if THAT is your argument, take it to a thread discussing the universal potency of the destro skill line or why each and every class in the game doesnt have a magicka equivalent to WoE and force pulse and take not of the feedback you get.
The you value the strength of healing while dealing damage, generating additional ultimate, and having your overall healing increased (which is perfectly designed in line with magblades life stealing, fearing shadow magick-esque thematics) then you will slot it over the available force pulse, which is designated as a strong tri elemental beam (not in any way whatsoever thematic to sorcs specifically). Resource costs has nothing to do with it.
Yes it was. hence why Strife originally cost like what like 900 something magicka and Siphion attacks resorted 1000 magicka and stamina per light attack. nightblade has always been about resources, saying otherwise means you don't really know the class very well. resources is where the classes strength is, it's where their strength was meant to be. it makes up a big part of their identity it's the basis for how they play just like every other class has their individual strength which is the basis for how they play. and if any other class faced a similar blow to their identity, i would not be in favor of it, it's a bad direction for the game to go in.
the thing is the rotaion is just too simular when you replace strife with force pulse.
magblade: cripple > light attack > force pulse > light attack > assassins will > impale
Sorc: Curse > light attack > force pulse > light attack > frag > mages wrath
that's basically an identical rotation a massive problem for individuality or classes.
the healing from strife is not something that cannot be replaced by another ability. the ultimate generation comes for using a siphoning ability of which strife is not the only ability you can use either. so no, everything about strife can be replaced.exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring and unimaginative game.
Sustain being class identity I don't even...
You "don't even" what?, pay attention?. apparently not.
resources has been the foundation for nightblades since 1.6 when i started playing the game this is not new or something i just made up today. NB's strength being in their resources has been true for a very long time.
A class identity is found within the overal theme of the class, the iconic skills and effects they bring with them. The resource management of a nightblade is bound to various passives, and the sustain from siphoning attacks. Not the cost of your spammable ability.
Even on PTS, nightblades are miles ahead of other classes in terms of sustain.
Your argument is illogical and unreasonable.
At launch, DKs dominated everything in cyrodiil. Now they're weaker than they ever were. Would you say that destroyed their class identity?
Being superior is not class identity. Class identity is defined by the various class skills, passives, and their effects. Damage and cost values are open for balance changes.
the overall theme of the class is low cost abilities, high regen, and resource return. they keep themselves up with HoT's and pressure which is directly tied to their sustain. they are built around their sustain hence why it is the class identity it is the foundation for which the class is built. it's the way it's always been it was just overlooked until recently because no one ever ran out of resources, until Morrowind.
and i don't know much about DK's which is why i don't go into their threads and talk about *** i don't know based on the limited knowledge of the class that i possess or what may appear op from an outside perspective. i leave that to the people who play those classes, who know those classes and who better understands what's best for those classes and how they play. a respect that unfortunately is not shared.Edited by Lucky28 on May 5, 2018 7:03PMInvictus0 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring game.
First and foremost, easy sustain / affordable spells was never thier identity. That contrast is not accurate especially when you are placing it against sorc shields or burst heals from a templar (which isnt even a templars identity either but im not going to get into that here). Magblades have always had unique ability in damage /healing synergy (soul tether / soul siphon, refreshing path, strife, sap essense). And that is only one aspect of the class, so trying to compartmentalize clases into strict singular representations is silly.
Magicka dps builds running similar setups does steal some wind out of the sails as far as class themes go, but sorcs can same the same thing (and often have). You want magblade to not be a sorc clone because sorcs have to use force pulse therefore force pulse is automatically a sorc ability, Twisting path vs liquid lightning, Frag vs Will, wrath vs impale etc etc, these are the individualizers, because to different classes make use of WoE and force pulse does not make them clones, amd likewise, if THAT is your argument, take it to a thread discussing the universal potency of the destro skill line or why each and every class in the game doesnt have a magicka equivalent to WoE and force pulse and take not of the feedback you get.
The you value the strength of healing while dealing damage, generating additional ultimate, and having your overall healing increased (which is perfectly designed in line with magblades life stealing, fearing shadow magick-esque thematics) then you will slot it over the available force pulse, which is designated as a strong tri elemental beam (not in any way whatsoever thematic to sorcs specifically). Resource costs has nothing to do with it.
Yes it was. hence why Strife originally cost like what like 900 something magicka and Siphion attacks resorted 1000 magicka and stamina per light attack. nightblade has always been about resources, saying otherwise means you don't really know the class very well. resources is where the classes strength is, it's where their strength was meant to be. it makes up a big part of their identity it's the basis for how they play just like every other class has their individual strength which is the basis for how they play. and if any other class faced a similar blow to their identity, i would not be in favor of it, it's a bad direction for the game to go in.
the thing is the rotaion is just too simular when you replace strife with force pulse.
magblade: cripple > light attack > force pulse > light attack > assassins will > impale
Sorc: Curse > light attack > force pulse > light attack > frag > mages wrath
that's basically an identical rotation a massive problem for individuality or classes.
the healing from strife is not something that cannot be replaced by another ability. the ultimate generation comes for using a siphoning ability of which strife is not the only ability you can use either. so no, everything about strife can be replaced.exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring and unimaginative game.
Sustain being class identity I don't even...
You "don't even" what?, pay attention?. apparently not.
resources has been the foundation for nightblades since 1.6 when i started playing the game this is not new or something i just made up today. NB's strength being in their resources has been true for a very long time.
A class identity is found within the overal theme of the class, the iconic skills and effects they bring with them. The resource management of a nightblade is bound to various passives, and the sustain from siphoning attacks. Not the cost of your spammable ability.
Even on PTS, nightblades are miles ahead of other classes in terms of sustain.
Your argument is illogical and unreasonable.
At launch, DKs dominated everything in cyrodiil. Now they're weaker than they ever were. Would you say that destroyed their class identity?
Being superior is not class identity. Class identity is defined by the various class skills, passives, and their effects. Damage and cost values are open for balance changes.
the overall theme of the class is low cost abilities, high regen, and resource return. they keep themselves up with HoT's and pressure which is directly tied to their sustain. they are built around their sustain hence why it is the class identity it is the foundation for which the class is built. it's the way it's always been it was just overlooked until recently because no one ever ran out of resources, until Morrowind.
and i don't know much about DK's which is why i don't go into their threads and talk about *** i don't know based on the limited knowledge of the class that i possess or what may appear op from an outside perspective. i leave that to the people who play those classes, who know those classes and who better understands what's best for those classes and how they play. a respect that unfortunately is not shared.
Yeah I'm not going to respect the knowledge of someone who blatantly doesn't have any, you're damn right about that.1 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring game.
First and foremost, easy sustain / affordable spells was never thier identity. That contrast is not accurate especially when you are placing it against sorc shields or burst heals from a templar (which isnt even a templars identity either but im not going to get into that here). Magblades have always had unique ability in damage /healing synergy (soul tether / soul siphon, refreshing path, strife, sap essense). And that is only one aspect of the class, so trying to compartmentalize clases into strict singular representations is silly.
Magicka dps builds running similar setups does steal some wind out of the sails as far as class themes go, but sorcs can same the same thing (and often have). You want magblade to not be a sorc clone because sorcs have to use force pulse therefore force pulse is automatically a sorc ability, Twisting path vs liquid lightning, Frag vs Will, wrath vs impale etc etc, these are the individualizers, because to different classes make use of WoE and force pulse does not make them clones, amd likewise, if THAT is your argument, take it to a thread discussing the universal potency of the destro skill line or why each and every class in the game doesnt have a magicka equivalent to WoE and force pulse and take not of the feedback you get.
The you value the strength of healing while dealing damage, generating additional ultimate, and having your overall healing increased (which is perfectly designed in line with magblades life stealing, fearing shadow magick-esque thematics) then you will slot it over the available force pulse, which is designated as a strong tri elemental beam (not in any way whatsoever thematic to sorcs specifically). Resource costs has nothing to do with it.
Yes it was. hence why Strife originally cost like what like 900 something magicka and Siphion attacks resorted 1000 magicka and stamina per light attack. nightblade has always been about resources, saying otherwise means you don't really know the class very well. resources is where the classes strength is, it's where their strength was meant to be. it makes up a big part of their identity it's the basis for how they play just like every other class has their individual strength which is the basis for how they play. and if any other class faced a similar blow to their identity, i would not be in favor of it, it's a bad direction for the game to go in.
the thing is the rotaion is just too simular when you replace strife with force pulse.
magblade: cripple > light attack > force pulse > light attack > assassins will > impale
Sorc: Curse > light attack > force pulse > light attack > frag > mages wrath
that's basically an identical rotation a massive problem for individuality or classes.
the healing from strife is not something that cannot be replaced by another ability. the ultimate generation comes for using a siphoning ability of which strife is not the only ability you can use either. so no, everything about strife can be replaced.exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring and unimaginative game.
Sustain being class identity I don't even...
You "don't even" what?, pay attention?. apparently not.
resources has been the foundation for nightblades since 1.6 when i started playing the game this is not new or something i just made up today. NB's strength being in their resources has been true for a very long time.
A class identity is found within the overal theme of the class, the iconic skills and effects they bring with them. The resource management of a nightblade is bound to various passives, and the sustain from siphoning attacks. Not the cost of your spammable ability.
Even on PTS, nightblades are miles ahead of other classes in terms of sustain.
Your argument is illogical and unreasonable.
At launch, DKs dominated everything in cyrodiil. Now they're weaker than they ever were. Would you say that destroyed their class identity?
Being superior is not class identity. Class identity is defined by the various class skills, passives, and their effects. Damage and cost values are open for balance changes.
the overall theme of the class is low cost abilities, high regen, and resource return. they keep themselves up with HoT's and pressure which is directly tied to their sustain. they are built around their sustain hence why it is the class identity it is the foundation for which the class is built. it's the way it's always been it was just overlooked until recently because no one ever ran out of resources, until Morrowind.
and i don't know much about DK's which is why i don't go into their threads and talk about *** i don't know based on the limited knowledge of the class that i possess or what may appear op from an outside perspective. i leave that to the people who play those classes, who know those classes and who better understands what's best for those classes and how they play. a respect that unfortunately is not shared.
Yes they keep themselves afloat with hots and a steady stream of incoming resources, that is a thematic, and gameplay aspect of the magblade, you are confusing two seperate things here.
Resource managment is a universally binding mechanic at this games combat system's foundation. It is equalized amongst the classes to the best of the developers ability. Saying a class has inheritently, objectively superior sustain due to it being their identity, goes against that foundation entirely. Such a scenario would mandate that said class be mathematically inferior in the damage department, otherwise they would be uncontested in most endgame endeavors.
HOW a class acheives resource sustainably is an indentifier, not that they do it better than anyone else.Edited by exeeter702 on May 5, 2018 7:15PM2 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring game.
First and foremost, easy sustain / affordable spells was never thier identity. That contrast is not accurate especially when you are placing it against sorc shields or burst heals from a templar (which isnt even a templars identity either but im not going to get into that here). Magblades have always had unique ability in damage /healing synergy (soul tether / soul siphon, refreshing path, strife, sap essense). And that is only one aspect of the class, so trying to compartmentalize clases into strict singular representations is silly.
Magicka dps builds running similar setups does steal some wind out of the sails as far as class themes go, but sorcs can same the same thing (and often have). You want magblade to not be a sorc clone because sorcs have to use force pulse therefore force pulse is automatically a sorc ability, Twisting path vs liquid lightning, Frag vs Will, wrath vs impale etc etc, these are the individualizers, because to different classes make use of WoE and force pulse does not make them clones, amd likewise, if THAT is your argument, take it to a thread discussing the universal potency of the destro skill line or why each and every class in the game doesnt have a magicka equivalent to WoE and force pulse and take not of the feedback you get.
The you value the strength of healing while dealing damage, generating additional ultimate, and having your overall healing increased (which is perfectly designed in line with magblades life stealing, fearing shadow magick-esque thematics) then you will slot it over the available force pulse, which is designated as a strong tri elemental beam (not in any way whatsoever thematic to sorcs specifically). Resource costs has nothing to do with it.
Yes it was. hence why Strife originally cost like what like 900 something magicka and Siphion attacks resorted 1000 magicka and stamina per light attack. nightblade has always been about resources, saying otherwise means you don't really know the class very well. resources is where the classes strength is, it's where their strength was meant to be. it makes up a big part of their identity it's the basis for how they play just like every other class has their individual strength which is the basis for how they play. and if any other class faced a similar blow to their identity, i would not be in favor of it, it's a bad direction for the game to go in.
the thing is the rotaion is just too simular when you replace strife with force pulse.
magblade: cripple > light attack > force pulse > light attack > assassins will > impale
Sorc: Curse > light attack > force pulse > light attack > frag > mages wrath
that's basically an identical rotation a massive problem for individuality or classes.
the healing from strife is not something that cannot be replaced by another ability. the ultimate generation comes for using a siphoning ability of which strife is not the only ability you can use either. so no, everything about strife can be replaced.exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring and unimaginative game.
Sustain being class identity I don't even...
You "don't even" what?, pay attention?. apparently not.
resources has been the foundation for nightblades since 1.6 when i started playing the game this is not new or something i just made up today. NB's strength being in their resources has been true for a very long time.
A class identity is found within the overal theme of the class, the iconic skills and effects they bring with them. The resource management of a nightblade is bound to various passives, and the sustain from siphoning attacks. Not the cost of your spammable ability.
Even on PTS, nightblades are miles ahead of other classes in terms of sustain.
Your argument is illogical and unreasonable.
At launch, DKs dominated everything in cyrodiil. Now they're weaker than they ever were. Would you say that destroyed their class identity?
Being superior is not class identity. Class identity is defined by the various class skills, passives, and their effects. Damage and cost values are open for balance changes.
the overall theme of the class is low cost abilities, high regen, and resource return. they keep themselves up with HoT's and pressure which is directly tied to their sustain. they are built around their sustain hence why it is the class identity it is the foundation for which the class is built. it's the way it's always been it was just overlooked until recently because no one ever ran out of resources, until Morrowind.
and i don't know much about DK's which is why i don't go into their threads and talk about *** i don't know based on the limited knowledge of the class that i possess or what may appear op from an outside perspective. i leave that to the people who play those classes, who know those classes and who better understands what's best for those classes and how they play. a respect that unfortunately is not shared.
Yes they keep themselves afloat with hots and a steady stream of incoming resources, that is a thematic, and gameplay aspect of the magblade, you are confusing two seperate things here.
Resource managment is a universally binding mechanic at this games combat system's foundation. It is equalized amongst the classes to the best of the developers ability. Saying a class has inheritently, objectively superior sustain due to it being their identity, goes against that foundation entirely. Such a scenario would mandate that said class be mathematically inferior in the damage department, otherwise they would be uncontested in most endgame endeavors.
HOW a class acheives resource sustainably is an indentifier, not that they do it better than anyone else.
Okay do you play a magblade?. i really have to know because you don't seem to see how integral resources are to magblade over every other class. resouces are important to any class yes, but not to the same degree as magblade. to magblade resources are their number 1 defense they can't fall back on burst heals, or shield stacks and innate tankyness. when a magblade stops, they die they are the definition of a fast-paced, glass canon and their resources is what makes that playstyle even possible.
unlike every other class a magblade cannot go on the defensive when they do it's over they're dead. resources are the classes identity because that's their core foundation that dictates their entire playstyle. their ability to not stop is their primary defense and method of survival that super fast paced gameplay is why you play a magblade over sorc.
so if you want to take that aspect away, just give magblade a hardened ward and be done with it.exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring game.
First and foremost, easy sustain / affordable spells was never thier identity. That contrast is not accurate especially when you are placing it against sorc shields or burst heals from a templar (which isnt even a templars identity either but im not going to get into that here). Magblades have always had unique ability in damage /healing synergy (soul tether / soul siphon, refreshing path, strife, sap essense). And that is only one aspect of the class, so trying to compartmentalize clases into strict singular representations is silly.
Magicka dps builds running similar setups does steal some wind out of the sails as far as class themes go, but sorcs can same the same thing (and often have). You want magblade to not be a sorc clone because sorcs have to use force pulse therefore force pulse is automatically a sorc ability, Twisting path vs liquid lightning, Frag vs Will, wrath vs impale etc etc, these are the individualizers, because to different classes make use of WoE and force pulse does not make them clones, amd likewise, if THAT is your argument, take it to a thread discussing the universal potency of the destro skill line or why each and every class in the game doesnt have a magicka equivalent to WoE and force pulse and take not of the feedback you get.
The you value the strength of healing while dealing damage, generating additional ultimate, and having your overall healing increased (which is perfectly designed in line with magblades life stealing, fearing shadow magick-esque thematics) then you will slot it over the available force pulse, which is designated as a strong tri elemental beam (not in any way whatsoever thematic to sorcs specifically). Resource costs has nothing to do with it.
Yes it was. hence why Strife originally cost like what like 900 something magicka and Siphion attacks resorted 1000 magicka and stamina per light attack. nightblade has always been about resources, saying otherwise means you don't really know the class very well. resources is where the classes strength is, it's where their strength was meant to be. it makes up a big part of their identity it's the basis for how they play just like every other class has their individual strength which is the basis for how they play. and if any other class faced a similar blow to their identity, i would not be in favor of it, it's a bad direction for the game to go in.
the thing is the rotaion is just too simular when you replace strife with force pulse.
magblade: cripple > light attack > force pulse > light attack > assassins will > impale
Sorc: Curse > light attack > force pulse > light attack > frag > mages wrath
that's basically an identical rotation a massive problem for individuality or classes.
the healing from strife is not something that cannot be replaced by another ability. the ultimate generation comes for using a siphoning ability of which strife is not the only ability you can use either. so no, everything about strife can be replaced.exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring and unimaginative game.
Sustain being class identity I don't even...
You "don't even" what?, pay attention?. apparently not.
resources has been the foundation for nightblades since 1.6 when i started playing the game this is not new or something i just made up today. NB's strength being in their resources has been true for a very long time.
A class identity is found within the overal theme of the class, the iconic skills and effects they bring with them. The resource management of a nightblade is bound to various passives, and the sustain from siphoning attacks. Not the cost of your spammable ability.
Even on PTS, nightblades are miles ahead of other classes in terms of sustain.
Your argument is illogical and unreasonable.
At launch, DKs dominated everything in cyrodiil. Now they're weaker than they ever were. Would you say that destroyed their class identity?
Being superior is not class identity. Class identity is defined by the various class skills, passives, and their effects. Damage and cost values are open for balance changes.
the overall theme of the class is low cost abilities, high regen, and resource return. they keep themselves up with HoT's and pressure which is directly tied to their sustain. they are built around their sustain hence why it is the class identity it is the foundation for which the class is built. it's the way it's always been it was just overlooked until recently because no one ever ran out of resources, until Morrowind.
and i don't know much about DK's which is why i don't go into their threads and talk about *** i don't know based on the limited knowledge of the class that i possess or what may appear op from an outside perspective. i leave that to the people who play those classes, who know those classes and who better understands what's best for those classes and how they play. a respect that unfortunately is not shared.
Yeah I'm not going to respect the knowledge of someone who blatantly doesn't have any, you're damn right about that.
then i guess we view each other in the same light. now that that's out of the way.Edited by Lucky28 on May 5, 2018 7:43PMInvictus0 -
WillhelmBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
And 8% max MagickaPC EU1 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring game.
First and foremost, easy sustain / affordable spells was never thier identity. That contrast is not accurate especially when you are placing it against sorc shields or burst heals from a templar (which isnt even a templars identity either but im not going to get into that here). Magblades have always had unique ability in damage /healing synergy (soul tether / soul siphon, refreshing path, strife, sap essense). And that is only one aspect of the class, so trying to compartmentalize clases into strict singular representations is silly.
Magicka dps builds running similar setups does steal some wind out of the sails as far as class themes go, but sorcs can same the same thing (and often have). You want magblade to not be a sorc clone because sorcs have to use force pulse therefore force pulse is automatically a sorc ability, Twisting path vs liquid lightning, Frag vs Will, wrath vs impale etc etc, these are the individualizers, because to different classes make use of WoE and force pulse does not make them clones, amd likewise, if THAT is your argument, take it to a thread discussing the universal potency of the destro skill line or why each and every class in the game doesnt have a magicka equivalent to WoE and force pulse and take not of the feedback you get.
The you value the strength of healing while dealing damage, generating additional ultimate, and having your overall healing increased (which is perfectly designed in line with magblades life stealing, fearing shadow magick-esque thematics) then you will slot it over the available force pulse, which is designated as a strong tri elemental beam (not in any way whatsoever thematic to sorcs specifically). Resource costs has nothing to do with it.
Yes it was. hence why Strife originally cost like what like 900 something magicka and Siphion attacks resorted 1000 magicka and stamina per light attack. nightblade has always been about resources, saying otherwise means you don't really know the class very well. resources is where the classes strength is, it's where their strength was meant to be. it makes up a big part of their identity it's the basis for how they play just like every other class has their individual strength which is the basis for how they play. and if any other class faced a similar blow to their identity, i would not be in favor of it, it's a bad direction for the game to go in.
the thing is the rotaion is just too simular when you replace strife with force pulse.
magblade: cripple > light attack > force pulse > light attack > assassins will > impale
Sorc: Curse > light attack > force pulse > light attack > frag > mages wrath
that's basically an identical rotation a massive problem for individuality or classes.
the healing from strife is not something that cannot be replaced by another ability. the ultimate generation comes for using a siphoning ability of which strife is not the only ability you can use either. so no, everything about strife can be replaced.exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring and unimaginative game.
Sustain being class identity I don't even...
You "don't even" what?, pay attention?. apparently not.
resources has been the foundation for nightblades since 1.6 when i started playing the game this is not new or something i just made up today. NB's strength being in their resources has been true for a very long time.
A class identity is found within the overal theme of the class, the iconic skills and effects they bring with them. The resource management of a nightblade is bound to various passives, and the sustain from siphoning attacks. Not the cost of your spammable ability.
Even on PTS, nightblades are miles ahead of other classes in terms of sustain.
Your argument is illogical and unreasonable.
At launch, DKs dominated everything in cyrodiil. Now they're weaker than they ever were. Would you say that destroyed their class identity?
Being superior is not class identity. Class identity is defined by the various class skills, passives, and their effects. Damage and cost values are open for balance changes.
the overall theme of the class is low cost abilities, high regen, and resource return. they keep themselves up with HoT's and pressure which is directly tied to their sustain. they are built around their sustain hence why it is the class identity it is the foundation for which the class is built. it's the way it's always been it was just overlooked until recently because no one ever ran out of resources, until Morrowind.
and i don't know much about DK's which is why i don't go into their threads and talk about *** i don't know based on the limited knowledge of the class that i possess or what may appear op from an outside perspective. i leave that to the people who play those classes, who know those classes and who better understands what's best for those classes and how they play. a respect that unfortunately is not shared.
Yes they keep themselves afloat with hots and a steady stream of incoming resources, that is a thematic, and gameplay aspect of the magblade, you are confusing two seperate things here.
Resource managment is a universally binding mechanic at this games combat system's foundation. It is equalized amongst the classes to the best of the developers ability. Saying a class has inheritently, objectively superior sustain due to it being their identity, goes against that foundation entirely. Such a scenario would mandate that said class be mathematically inferior in the damage department, otherwise they would be uncontested in most endgame endeavors.
HOW a class acheives resource sustainably is an indentifier, not that they do it better than anyone else.
Okay do you play a magblade?. i really have to know because you don't seem to see how integral resources are to magblade over every other class. resouces are important to any class yes, but not to the same degree as magblade. to magblade resources are their number 1 defense they can't fall back on burst heals, or shield stacks and innate tankyness. when a magblade stops, they die they are the definition of a fast-paced, glass canon and their resources is what makes that playstyle even possible.
unlike every other class a magblade cannot go on the defensive when they do it's over they're dead. resources are the classes identity because that's their core foundation that dictates their entire playstyle. their ability to not stop is their primary defense and method of survival that super fast paced gameplay is why you play a magblade over sorc.
so if you want to take that aspect away, just give magblade a hardened ward and be done with it.exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring game.
First and foremost, easy sustain / affordable spells was never thier identity. That contrast is not accurate especially when you are placing it against sorc shields or burst heals from a templar (which isnt even a templars identity either but im not going to get into that here). Magblades have always had unique ability in damage /healing synergy (soul tether / soul siphon, refreshing path, strife, sap essense). And that is only one aspect of the class, so trying to compartmentalize clases into strict singular representations is silly.
Magicka dps builds running similar setups does steal some wind out of the sails as far as class themes go, but sorcs can same the same thing (and often have). You want magblade to not be a sorc clone because sorcs have to use force pulse therefore force pulse is automatically a sorc ability, Twisting path vs liquid lightning, Frag vs Will, wrath vs impale etc etc, these are the individualizers, because to different classes make use of WoE and force pulse does not make them clones, amd likewise, if THAT is your argument, take it to a thread discussing the universal potency of the destro skill line or why each and every class in the game doesnt have a magicka equivalent to WoE and force pulse and take not of the feedback you get.
The you value the strength of healing while dealing damage, generating additional ultimate, and having your overall healing increased (which is perfectly designed in line with magblades life stealing, fearing shadow magick-esque thematics) then you will slot it over the available force pulse, which is designated as a strong tri elemental beam (not in any way whatsoever thematic to sorcs specifically). Resource costs has nothing to do with it.
Yes it was. hence why Strife originally cost like what like 900 something magicka and Siphion attacks resorted 1000 magicka and stamina per light attack. nightblade has always been about resources, saying otherwise means you don't really know the class very well. resources is where the classes strength is, it's where their strength was meant to be. it makes up a big part of their identity it's the basis for how they play just like every other class has their individual strength which is the basis for how they play. and if any other class faced a similar blow to their identity, i would not be in favor of it, it's a bad direction for the game to go in.
the thing is the rotaion is just too simular when you replace strife with force pulse.
magblade: cripple > light attack > force pulse > light attack > assassins will > impale
Sorc: Curse > light attack > force pulse > light attack > frag > mages wrath
that's basically an identical rotation a massive problem for individuality or classes.
the healing from strife is not something that cannot be replaced by another ability. the ultimate generation comes for using a siphoning ability of which strife is not the only ability you can use either. so no, everything about strife can be replaced.exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring and unimaginative game.
Sustain being class identity I don't even...
You "don't even" what?, pay attention?. apparently not.
resources has been the foundation for nightblades since 1.6 when i started playing the game this is not new or something i just made up today. NB's strength being in their resources has been true for a very long time.
A class identity is found within the overal theme of the class, the iconic skills and effects they bring with them. The resource management of a nightblade is bound to various passives, and the sustain from siphoning attacks. Not the cost of your spammable ability.
Even on PTS, nightblades are miles ahead of other classes in terms of sustain.
Your argument is illogical and unreasonable.
At launch, DKs dominated everything in cyrodiil. Now they're weaker than they ever were. Would you say that destroyed their class identity?
Being superior is not class identity. Class identity is defined by the various class skills, passives, and their effects. Damage and cost values are open for balance changes.
the overall theme of the class is low cost abilities, high regen, and resource return. they keep themselves up with HoT's and pressure which is directly tied to their sustain. they are built around their sustain hence why it is the class identity it is the foundation for which the class is built. it's the way it's always been it was just overlooked until recently because no one ever ran out of resources, until Morrowind.
and i don't know much about DK's which is why i don't go into their threads and talk about *** i don't know based on the limited knowledge of the class that i possess or what may appear op from an outside perspective. i leave that to the people who play those classes, who know those classes and who better understands what's best for those classes and how they play. a respect that unfortunately is not shared.
Yeah I'm not going to respect the knowledge of someone who blatantly doesn't have any, you're damn right about that.
then i guess we view each other in the same light. now that that's out of the way.
I dont know how to even respond to that... you make 2 inquiries as to whether or not i play magblade which is telling tbh..
Resources have no coorrelation to active defense anymore than on any class as long as active defense costs resources. Your attempt here makes little sense, as what ibhave explained to you goes beyond your viewpoint and effects the greater balance of the game in how the devs approach class balance with combat. Magblades are not exclusivley glass cannons, you have tank and healer nbs as well, which completely renders your entire point irrelevant.
For the last time, objective intentional resource sustain superiority has not ever and is not now something the developers ever condone.
And if you must know i have roughly 8000 hours
Of magblade experience, but more importantly, i am VERY educated of all aspects of all classes and thus am able to look outside of the echoing chamber when seeing chamges like the stride nerf and how it happened, and how it relates to the broader spectrum ofx this game. I dont feel further dialogue on the subject will help you here. I belive there is a disconnect with your perceived idea of what the class should be vs what is actually happening under the hood in this game.0 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring game.
First and foremost, easy sustain / affordable spells was never thier identity. That contrast is not accurate especially when you are placing it against sorc shields or burst heals from a templar (which isnt even a templars identity either but im not going to get into that here). Magblades have always had unique ability in damage /healing synergy (soul tether / soul siphon, refreshing path, strife, sap essense). And that is only one aspect of the class, so trying to compartmentalize clases into strict singular representations is silly.
Magicka dps builds running similar setups does steal some wind out of the sails as far as class themes go, but sorcs can same the same thing (and often have). You want magblade to not be a sorc clone because sorcs have to use force pulse therefore force pulse is automatically a sorc ability, Twisting path vs liquid lightning, Frag vs Will, wrath vs impale etc etc, these are the individualizers, because to different classes make use of WoE and force pulse does not make them clones, amd likewise, if THAT is your argument, take it to a thread discussing the universal potency of the destro skill line or why each and every class in the game doesnt have a magicka equivalent to WoE and force pulse and take not of the feedback you get.
The you value the strength of healing while dealing damage, generating additional ultimate, and having your overall healing increased (which is perfectly designed in line with magblades life stealing, fearing shadow magick-esque thematics) then you will slot it over the available force pulse, which is designated as a strong tri elemental beam (not in any way whatsoever thematic to sorcs specifically). Resource costs has nothing to do with it.
Yes it was. hence why Strife originally cost like what like 900 something magicka and Siphion attacks resorted 1000 magicka and stamina per light attack. nightblade has always been about resources, saying otherwise means you don't really know the class very well. resources is where the classes strength is, it's where their strength was meant to be. it makes up a big part of their identity it's the basis for how they play just like every other class has their individual strength which is the basis for how they play. and if any other class faced a similar blow to their identity, i would not be in favor of it, it's a bad direction for the game to go in.
the thing is the rotaion is just too simular when you replace strife with force pulse.
magblade: cripple > light attack > force pulse > light attack > assassins will > impale
Sorc: Curse > light attack > force pulse > light attack > frag > mages wrath
that's basically an identical rotation a massive problem for individuality or classes.
the healing from strife is not something that cannot be replaced by another ability. the ultimate generation comes for using a siphoning ability of which strife is not the only ability you can use either. so no, everything about strife can be replaced.exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring and unimaginative game.
Sustain being class identity I don't even...
You "don't even" what?, pay attention?. apparently not.
resources has been the foundation for nightblades since 1.6 when i started playing the game this is not new or something i just made up today. NB's strength being in their resources has been true for a very long time.
A class identity is found within the overal theme of the class, the iconic skills and effects they bring with them. The resource management of a nightblade is bound to various passives, and the sustain from siphoning attacks. Not the cost of your spammable ability.
Even on PTS, nightblades are miles ahead of other classes in terms of sustain.
Your argument is illogical and unreasonable.
At launch, DKs dominated everything in cyrodiil. Now they're weaker than they ever were. Would you say that destroyed their class identity?
Being superior is not class identity. Class identity is defined by the various class skills, passives, and their effects. Damage and cost values are open for balance changes.
the overall theme of the class is low cost abilities, high regen, and resource return. they keep themselves up with HoT's and pressure which is directly tied to their sustain. they are built around their sustain hence why it is the class identity it is the foundation for which the class is built. it's the way it's always been it was just overlooked until recently because no one ever ran out of resources, until Morrowind.
and i don't know much about DK's which is why i don't go into their threads and talk about *** i don't know based on the limited knowledge of the class that i possess or what may appear op from an outside perspective. i leave that to the people who play those classes, who know those classes and who better understands what's best for those classes and how they play. a respect that unfortunately is not shared.
Yes they keep themselves afloat with hots and a steady stream of incoming resources, that is a thematic, and gameplay aspect of the magblade, you are confusing two seperate things here.
Resource managment is a universally binding mechanic at this games combat system's foundation. It is equalized amongst the classes to the best of the developers ability. Saying a class has inheritently, objectively superior sustain due to it being their identity, goes against that foundation entirely. Such a scenario would mandate that said class be mathematically inferior in the damage department, otherwise they would be uncontested in most endgame endeavors.
HOW a class acheives resource sustainably is an indentifier, not that they do it better than anyone else.
Okay do you play a magblade?. i really have to know because you don't seem to see how integral resources are to magblade over every other class. resouces are important to any class yes, but not to the same degree as magblade. to magblade resources are their number 1 defense they can't fall back on burst heals, or shield stacks and innate tankyness. when a magblade stops, they die they are the definition of a fast-paced, glass canon and their resources is what makes that playstyle even possible.
unlike every other class a magblade cannot go on the defensive when they do it's over they're dead. resources are the classes identity because that's their core foundation that dictates their entire playstyle. their ability to not stop is their primary defense and method of survival that super fast paced gameplay is why you play a magblade over sorc.
so if you want to take that aspect away, just give magblade a hardened ward and be done with it.exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring game.
First and foremost, easy sustain / affordable spells was never thier identity. That contrast is not accurate especially when you are placing it against sorc shields or burst heals from a templar (which isnt even a templars identity either but im not going to get into that here). Magblades have always had unique ability in damage /healing synergy (soul tether / soul siphon, refreshing path, strife, sap essense). And that is only one aspect of the class, so trying to compartmentalize clases into strict singular representations is silly.
Magicka dps builds running similar setups does steal some wind out of the sails as far as class themes go, but sorcs can same the same thing (and often have). You want magblade to not be a sorc clone because sorcs have to use force pulse therefore force pulse is automatically a sorc ability, Twisting path vs liquid lightning, Frag vs Will, wrath vs impale etc etc, these are the individualizers, because to different classes make use of WoE and force pulse does not make them clones, amd likewise, if THAT is your argument, take it to a thread discussing the universal potency of the destro skill line or why each and every class in the game doesnt have a magicka equivalent to WoE and force pulse and take not of the feedback you get.
The you value the strength of healing while dealing damage, generating additional ultimate, and having your overall healing increased (which is perfectly designed in line with magblades life stealing, fearing shadow magick-esque thematics) then you will slot it over the available force pulse, which is designated as a strong tri elemental beam (not in any way whatsoever thematic to sorcs specifically). Resource costs has nothing to do with it.
Yes it was. hence why Strife originally cost like what like 900 something magicka and Siphion attacks resorted 1000 magicka and stamina per light attack. nightblade has always been about resources, saying otherwise means you don't really know the class very well. resources is where the classes strength is, it's where their strength was meant to be. it makes up a big part of their identity it's the basis for how they play just like every other class has their individual strength which is the basis for how they play. and if any other class faced a similar blow to their identity, i would not be in favor of it, it's a bad direction for the game to go in.
the thing is the rotaion is just too simular when you replace strife with force pulse.
magblade: cripple > light attack > force pulse > light attack > assassins will > impale
Sorc: Curse > light attack > force pulse > light attack > frag > mages wrath
that's basically an identical rotation a massive problem for individuality or classes.
the healing from strife is not something that cannot be replaced by another ability. the ultimate generation comes for using a siphoning ability of which strife is not the only ability you can use either. so no, everything about strife can be replaced.exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring and unimaginative game.
Sustain being class identity I don't even...
You "don't even" what?, pay attention?. apparently not.
resources has been the foundation for nightblades since 1.6 when i started playing the game this is not new or something i just made up today. NB's strength being in their resources has been true for a very long time.
A class identity is found within the overal theme of the class, the iconic skills and effects they bring with them. The resource management of a nightblade is bound to various passives, and the sustain from siphoning attacks. Not the cost of your spammable ability.
Even on PTS, nightblades are miles ahead of other classes in terms of sustain.
Your argument is illogical and unreasonable.
At launch, DKs dominated everything in cyrodiil. Now they're weaker than they ever were. Would you say that destroyed their class identity?
Being superior is not class identity. Class identity is defined by the various class skills, passives, and their effects. Damage and cost values are open for balance changes.
the overall theme of the class is low cost abilities, high regen, and resource return. they keep themselves up with HoT's and pressure which is directly tied to their sustain. they are built around their sustain hence why it is the class identity it is the foundation for which the class is built. it's the way it's always been it was just overlooked until recently because no one ever ran out of resources, until Morrowind.
and i don't know much about DK's which is why i don't go into their threads and talk about *** i don't know based on the limited knowledge of the class that i possess or what may appear op from an outside perspective. i leave that to the people who play those classes, who know those classes and who better understands what's best for those classes and how they play. a respect that unfortunately is not shared.
Yeah I'm not going to respect the knowledge of someone who blatantly doesn't have any, you're damn right about that.
then i guess we view each other in the same light. now that that's out of the way.
I dont know how to even respond to that... you make 2 inquiries as to whether or not i play magblade which is telling tbh..
Resources have no coorrelation to active defense anymore than on any class as long as active defense costs resources. Your attempt here makes little sense, as what ibhave explained to you goes beyond your viewpoint and effects the greater balance of the game in how the devs approach class balance with combat. Magblades are not exclusivley glass cannons, you have tank and healer nbs as well, which completely renders your entire point irrelevant.
For the last time, objective intentional resource sustain superiority has not ever and is not now something the developers ever condone.
And if you must know i have roughly 8000 hours
Of magblade experience, but more importantly, i am VERY educated of all aspects of all classes and thus am able to look outside of the echoing chamber when seeing chamges like the stride nerf and how it happened, and how it relates to the broader spectrum ofx this game. I dont feel further dialogue on the subject will help you here. I belive there is a disconnect with your perceived idea of what the class should be vs what is actually happening under the hood in this game.
Not really. there are a lot of people who are happy to see a class they don't play and don't like nerfed regardless of what nerf it is and rather or not it actually helps the game in any way. so me wanting to know that is just me wanting to know if i'm wasting my time or not.
Saptanks have been dead for a long time, and healer NB's aren't that good. i couldn't even tell you the last time i saw a saptank or healer NB. i give them props because they're thinking outside the box, but.
ultimately tho. what one considers a classes identity is largely subjective people play their classes for a verity of reasons. what really matter is individuality of classes, and the change to strife hurts that individuality. it's as i said before and what you even agreed on. all DPS regardless of class running the same abilities is dull.Edited by Lucky28 on May 5, 2018 8:53PMInvictus0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
lol... Yeah im definitely done here.
healer NB's aren't that good. i couldn't even tell you the last time i saw a saptank or healer NB. i give them props because they're thinking outside the box, but.exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring game.
First and foremost, easy sustain / affordable spells was never thier identity. That contrast is not accurate especially when you are placing it against sorc shields or burst heals from a templar (which isnt even a templars identity either but im not going to get into that here). Magblades have always had unique ability in damage /healing synergy (soul tether / soul siphon, refreshing path, strife, sap essense). And that is only one aspect of the class, so trying to compartmentalize clases into strict singular representations is silly.
Magicka dps builds running similar setups does steal some wind out of the sails as far as class themes go, but sorcs can same the same thing (and often have). You want magblade to not be a sorc clone because sorcs have to use force pulse therefore force pulse is automatically a sorc ability, Twisting path vs liquid lightning, Frag vs Will, wrath vs impale etc etc, these are the individualizers, because to different classes make use of WoE and force pulse does not make them clones, amd likewise, if THAT is your argument, take it to a thread discussing the universal potency of the destro skill line or why each and every class in the game doesnt have a magicka equivalent to WoE and force pulse and take not of the feedback you get.
The you value the strength of healing while dealing damage, generating additional ultimate, and having your overall healing increased (which is perfectly designed in line with magblades life stealing, fearing shadow magick-esque thematics) then you will slot it over the available force pulse, which is designated as a strong tri elemental beam (not in any way whatsoever thematic to sorcs specifically). Resource costs has nothing to do with it.
Yes it was. hence why Strife originally cost like what like 900 something magicka and Siphion attacks resorted 1000 magicka and stamina per light attack. nightblade has always been about resources, saying otherwise means you don't really know the class very well. resources is where the classes strength is, it's where their strength was meant to be. it makes up a big part of their identity it's the basis for how they play just like every other class has their individual strength which is the basis for how they play. and if any other class faced a similar blow to their identity, i would not be in favor of it, it's a bad direction for the game to go in.
the thing is the rotaion is just too simular when you replace strife with force pulse.
magblade: cripple > light attack > force pulse > light attack > assassins will > impale
Sorc: Curse > light attack > force pulse > light attack > frag > mages wrath
that's basically an identical rotation a massive problem for individuality or classes.
the healing from strife is not something that cannot be replaced by another ability. the ultimate generation comes for using a siphoning ability of which strife is not the only ability you can use either. so no, everything about strife can be replaced.exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring and unimaginative game.
Sustain being class identity I don't even...
You "don't even" what?, pay attention?. apparently not.
resources has been the foundation for nightblades since 1.6 when i started playing the game this is not new or something i just made up today. NB's strength being in their resources has been true for a very long time.
A class identity is found within the overal theme of the class, the iconic skills and effects they bring with them. The resource management of a nightblade is bound to various passives, and the sustain from siphoning attacks. Not the cost of your spammable ability.
Even on PTS, nightblades are miles ahead of other classes in terms of sustain.
Your argument is illogical and unreasonable.
At launch, DKs dominated everything in cyrodiil. Now they're weaker than they ever were. Would you say that destroyed their class identity?
Being superior is not class identity. Class identity is defined by the various class skills, passives, and their effects. Damage and cost values are open for balance changes.
the overall theme of the class is low cost abilities, high regen, and resource return. they keep themselves up with HoT's and pressure which is directly tied to their sustain. they are built around their sustain hence why it is the class identity it is the foundation for which the class is built. it's the way it's always been it was just overlooked until recently because no one ever ran out of resources, until Morrowind.
and i don't know much about DK's which is why i don't go into their threads and talk about *** i don't know based on the limited knowledge of the class that i possess or what may appear op from an outside perspective. i leave that to the people who play those classes, who know those classes and who better understands what's best for those classes and how they play. a respect that unfortunately is not shared.
Yes they keep themselves afloat with hots and a steady stream of incoming resources, that is a thematic, and gameplay aspect of the magblade, you are confusing two seperate things here.
Resource managment is a universally binding mechanic at this games combat system's foundation. It is equalized amongst the classes to the best of the developers ability. Saying a class has inheritently, objectively superior sustain due to it being their identity, goes against that foundation entirely. Such a scenario would mandate that said class be mathematically inferior in the damage department, otherwise they would be uncontested in most endgame endeavors.
HOW a class acheives resource sustainably is an indentifier, not that they do it better than anyone else.
Okay do you play a magblade?. i really have to know because you don't seem to see how integral resources are to magblade over every other class. resouces are important to any class yes, but not to the same degree as magblade. to magblade resources are their number 1 defense they can't fall back on burst heals, or shield stacks and innate tankyness. when a magblade stops, they die they are the definition of a fast-paced, glass canon and their resources is what makes that playstyle even possible.
unlike every other class a magblade cannot go on the defensive when they do it's over they're dead. resources are the classes identity because that's their core foundation that dictates their entire playstyle. their ability to not stop is their primary defense and method of survival that super fast paced gameplay is why you play a magblade over sorc.
so if you want to take that aspect away, just give magblade a hardened ward and be done with it.exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring game.
First and foremost, easy sustain / affordable spells was never thier identity. That contrast is not accurate especially when you are placing it against sorc shields or burst heals from a templar (which isnt even a templars identity either but im not going to get into that here). Magblades have always had unique ability in damage /healing synergy (soul tether / soul siphon, refreshing path, strife, sap essense). And that is only one aspect of the class, so trying to compartmentalize clases into strict singular representations is silly.
Magicka dps builds running similar setups does steal some wind out of the sails as far as class themes go, but sorcs can same the same thing (and often have). You want magblade to not be a sorc clone because sorcs have to use force pulse therefore force pulse is automatically a sorc ability, Twisting path vs liquid lightning, Frag vs Will, wrath vs impale etc etc, these are the individualizers, because to different classes make use of WoE and force pulse does not make them clones, amd likewise, if THAT is your argument, take it to a thread discussing the universal potency of the destro skill line or why each and every class in the game doesnt have a magicka equivalent to WoE and force pulse and take not of the feedback you get.
The you value the strength of healing while dealing damage, generating additional ultimate, and having your overall healing increased (which is perfectly designed in line with magblades life stealing, fearing shadow magick-esque thematics) then you will slot it over the available force pulse, which is designated as a strong tri elemental beam (not in any way whatsoever thematic to sorcs specifically). Resource costs has nothing to do with it.
Yes it was. hence why Strife originally cost like what like 900 something magicka and Siphion attacks resorted 1000 magicka and stamina per light attack. nightblade has always been about resources, saying otherwise means you don't really know the class very well. resources is where the classes strength is, it's where their strength was meant to be. it makes up a big part of their identity it's the basis for how they play just like every other class has their individual strength which is the basis for how they play. and if any other class faced a similar blow to their identity, i would not be in favor of it, it's a bad direction for the game to go in.
the thing is the rotaion is just too simular when you replace strife with force pulse.
magblade: cripple > light attack > force pulse > light attack > assassins will > impale
Sorc: Curse > light attack > force pulse > light attack > frag > mages wrath
that's basically an identical rotation a massive problem for individuality or classes.
the healing from strife is not something that cannot be replaced by another ability. the ultimate generation comes for using a siphoning ability of which strife is not the only ability you can use either. so no, everything about strife can be replaced.exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring and unimaginative game.
Sustain being class identity I don't even...
You "don't even" what?, pay attention?. apparently not.
resources has been the foundation for nightblades since 1.6 when i started playing the game this is not new or something i just made up today. NB's strength being in their resources has been true for a very long time.
A class identity is found within the overal theme of the class, the iconic skills and effects they bring with them. The resource management of a nightblade is bound to various passives, and the sustain from siphoning attacks. Not the cost of your spammable ability.
Even on PTS, nightblades are miles ahead of other classes in terms of sustain.
Your argument is illogical and unreasonable.
At launch, DKs dominated everything in cyrodiil. Now they're weaker than they ever were. Would you say that destroyed their class identity?
Being superior is not class identity. Class identity is defined by the various class skills, passives, and their effects. Damage and cost values are open for balance changes.
the overall theme of the class is low cost abilities, high regen, and resource return. they keep themselves up with HoT's and pressure which is directly tied to their sustain. they are built around their sustain hence why it is the class identity it is the foundation for which the class is built. it's the way it's always been it was just overlooked until recently because no one ever ran out of resources, until Morrowind.
and i don't know much about DK's which is why i don't go into their threads and talk about *** i don't know based on the limited knowledge of the class that i possess or what may appear op from an outside perspective. i leave that to the people who play those classes, who know those classes and who better understands what's best for those classes and how they play. a respect that unfortunately is not shared.
Yeah I'm not going to respect the knowledge of someone who blatantly doesn't have any, you're damn right about that.
then i guess we view each other in the same light. now that that's out of the way.
I dont know how to even respond to that... you make 2 inquiries as to whether or not i play magblade which is telling tbh..
Resources have no coorrelation to active defense anymore than on any class as long as active defense costs resources. Your attempt here makes little sense, as what ibhave explained to you goes beyond your viewpoint and effects the greater balance of the game in how the devs approach class balance with combat. Magblades are not exclusivley glass cannons, you have tank and healer nbs as well, which completely renders your entire point irrelevant.
For the last time, objective intentional resource sustain superiority has not ever and is not now something the developers ever condone.
And if you must know i have roughly 8000 hours
Of magblade experience, but more importantly, i am VERY educated of all aspects of all classes and thus am able to look outside of the echoing chamber when seeing chamges like the stride nerf and how it happened, and how it relates to the broader spectrum ofx this game. I dont feel further dialogue on the subject will help you here. I belive there is a disconnect with your perceived idea of what the class should be vs what is actually happening under the hood in this game.
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Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭exeeter702 wrote: »
lol... Yeah im definitely done here.
healer NB's aren't that good. i couldn't even tell you the last time i saw a saptank or healer NB. i give them props because they're thinking outside the box, but.exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring game.
First and foremost, easy sustain / affordable spells was never thier identity. That contrast is not accurate especially when you are placing it against sorc shields or burst heals from a templar (which isnt even a templars identity either but im not going to get into that here). Magblades have always had unique ability in damage /healing synergy (soul tether / soul siphon, refreshing path, strife, sap essense). And that is only one aspect of the class, so trying to compartmentalize clases into strict singular representations is silly.
Magicka dps builds running similar setups does steal some wind out of the sails as far as class themes go, but sorcs can same the same thing (and often have). You want magblade to not be a sorc clone because sorcs have to use force pulse therefore force pulse is automatically a sorc ability, Twisting path vs liquid lightning, Frag vs Will, wrath vs impale etc etc, these are the individualizers, because to different classes make use of WoE and force pulse does not make them clones, amd likewise, if THAT is your argument, take it to a thread discussing the universal potency of the destro skill line or why each and every class in the game doesnt have a magicka equivalent to WoE and force pulse and take not of the feedback you get.
The you value the strength of healing while dealing damage, generating additional ultimate, and having your overall healing increased (which is perfectly designed in line with magblades life stealing, fearing shadow magick-esque thematics) then you will slot it over the available force pulse, which is designated as a strong tri elemental beam (not in any way whatsoever thematic to sorcs specifically). Resource costs has nothing to do with it.
Yes it was. hence why Strife originally cost like what like 900 something magicka and Siphion attacks resorted 1000 magicka and stamina per light attack. nightblade has always been about resources, saying otherwise means you don't really know the class very well. resources is where the classes strength is, it's where their strength was meant to be. it makes up a big part of their identity it's the basis for how they play just like every other class has their individual strength which is the basis for how they play. and if any other class faced a similar blow to their identity, i would not be in favor of it, it's a bad direction for the game to go in.
the thing is the rotaion is just too simular when you replace strife with force pulse.
magblade: cripple > light attack > force pulse > light attack > assassins will > impale
Sorc: Curse > light attack > force pulse > light attack > frag > mages wrath
that's basically an identical rotation a massive problem for individuality or classes.
the healing from strife is not something that cannot be replaced by another ability. the ultimate generation comes for using a siphoning ability of which strife is not the only ability you can use either. so no, everything about strife can be replaced.exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring and unimaginative game.
Sustain being class identity I don't even...
You "don't even" what?, pay attention?. apparently not.
resources has been the foundation for nightblades since 1.6 when i started playing the game this is not new or something i just made up today. NB's strength being in their resources has been true for a very long time.
A class identity is found within the overal theme of the class, the iconic skills and effects they bring with them. The resource management of a nightblade is bound to various passives, and the sustain from siphoning attacks. Not the cost of your spammable ability.
Even on PTS, nightblades are miles ahead of other classes in terms of sustain.
Your argument is illogical and unreasonable.
At launch, DKs dominated everything in cyrodiil. Now they're weaker than they ever were. Would you say that destroyed their class identity?
Being superior is not class identity. Class identity is defined by the various class skills, passives, and their effects. Damage and cost values are open for balance changes.
the overall theme of the class is low cost abilities, high regen, and resource return. they keep themselves up with HoT's and pressure which is directly tied to their sustain. they are built around their sustain hence why it is the class identity it is the foundation for which the class is built. it's the way it's always been it was just overlooked until recently because no one ever ran out of resources, until Morrowind.
and i don't know much about DK's which is why i don't go into their threads and talk about *** i don't know based on the limited knowledge of the class that i possess or what may appear op from an outside perspective. i leave that to the people who play those classes, who know those classes and who better understands what's best for those classes and how they play. a respect that unfortunately is not shared.
Yes they keep themselves afloat with hots and a steady stream of incoming resources, that is a thematic, and gameplay aspect of the magblade, you are confusing two seperate things here.
Resource managment is a universally binding mechanic at this games combat system's foundation. It is equalized amongst the classes to the best of the developers ability. Saying a class has inheritently, objectively superior sustain due to it being their identity, goes against that foundation entirely. Such a scenario would mandate that said class be mathematically inferior in the damage department, otherwise they would be uncontested in most endgame endeavors.
HOW a class acheives resource sustainably is an indentifier, not that they do it better than anyone else.
Okay do you play a magblade?. i really have to know because you don't seem to see how integral resources are to magblade over every other class. resouces are important to any class yes, but not to the same degree as magblade. to magblade resources are their number 1 defense they can't fall back on burst heals, or shield stacks and innate tankyness. when a magblade stops, they die they are the definition of a fast-paced, glass canon and their resources is what makes that playstyle even possible.
unlike every other class a magblade cannot go on the defensive when they do it's over they're dead. resources are the classes identity because that's their core foundation that dictates their entire playstyle. their ability to not stop is their primary defense and method of survival that super fast paced gameplay is why you play a magblade over sorc.
so if you want to take that aspect away, just give magblade a hardened ward and be done with it.exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring game.
First and foremost, easy sustain / affordable spells was never thier identity. That contrast is not accurate especially when you are placing it against sorc shields or burst heals from a templar (which isnt even a templars identity either but im not going to get into that here). Magblades have always had unique ability in damage /healing synergy (soul tether / soul siphon, refreshing path, strife, sap essense). And that is only one aspect of the class, so trying to compartmentalize clases into strict singular representations is silly.
Magicka dps builds running similar setups does steal some wind out of the sails as far as class themes go, but sorcs can same the same thing (and often have). You want magblade to not be a sorc clone because sorcs have to use force pulse therefore force pulse is automatically a sorc ability, Twisting path vs liquid lightning, Frag vs Will, wrath vs impale etc etc, these are the individualizers, because to different classes make use of WoE and force pulse does not make them clones, amd likewise, if THAT is your argument, take it to a thread discussing the universal potency of the destro skill line or why each and every class in the game doesnt have a magicka equivalent to WoE and force pulse and take not of the feedback you get.
The you value the strength of healing while dealing damage, generating additional ultimate, and having your overall healing increased (which is perfectly designed in line with magblades life stealing, fearing shadow magick-esque thematics) then you will slot it over the available force pulse, which is designated as a strong tri elemental beam (not in any way whatsoever thematic to sorcs specifically). Resource costs has nothing to do with it.
Yes it was. hence why Strife originally cost like what like 900 something magicka and Siphion attacks resorted 1000 magicka and stamina per light attack. nightblade has always been about resources, saying otherwise means you don't really know the class very well. resources is where the classes strength is, it's where their strength was meant to be. it makes up a big part of their identity it's the basis for how they play just like every other class has their individual strength which is the basis for how they play. and if any other class faced a similar blow to their identity, i would not be in favor of it, it's a bad direction for the game to go in.
the thing is the rotaion is just too simular when you replace strife with force pulse.
magblade: cripple > light attack > force pulse > light attack > assassins will > impale
Sorc: Curse > light attack > force pulse > light attack > frag > mages wrath
that's basically an identical rotation a massive problem for individuality or classes.
the healing from strife is not something that cannot be replaced by another ability. the ultimate generation comes for using a siphoning ability of which strife is not the only ability you can use either. so no, everything about strife can be replaced.exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring and unimaginative game.
Sustain being class identity I don't even...
You "don't even" what?, pay attention?. apparently not.
resources has been the foundation for nightblades since 1.6 when i started playing the game this is not new or something i just made up today. NB's strength being in their resources has been true for a very long time.
A class identity is found within the overal theme of the class, the iconic skills and effects they bring with them. The resource management of a nightblade is bound to various passives, and the sustain from siphoning attacks. Not the cost of your spammable ability.
Even on PTS, nightblades are miles ahead of other classes in terms of sustain.
Your argument is illogical and unreasonable.
At launch, DKs dominated everything in cyrodiil. Now they're weaker than they ever were. Would you say that destroyed their class identity?
Being superior is not class identity. Class identity is defined by the various class skills, passives, and their effects. Damage and cost values are open for balance changes.
the overall theme of the class is low cost abilities, high regen, and resource return. they keep themselves up with HoT's and pressure which is directly tied to their sustain. they are built around their sustain hence why it is the class identity it is the foundation for which the class is built. it's the way it's always been it was just overlooked until recently because no one ever ran out of resources, until Morrowind.
and i don't know much about DK's which is why i don't go into their threads and talk about *** i don't know based on the limited knowledge of the class that i possess or what may appear op from an outside perspective. i leave that to the people who play those classes, who know those classes and who better understands what's best for those classes and how they play. a respect that unfortunately is not shared.
Yeah I'm not going to respect the knowledge of someone who blatantly doesn't have any, you're damn right about that.
then i guess we view each other in the same light. now that that's out of the way.
I dont know how to even respond to that... you make 2 inquiries as to whether or not i play magblade which is telling tbh..
Resources have no coorrelation to active defense anymore than on any class as long as active defense costs resources. Your attempt here makes little sense, as what ibhave explained to you goes beyond your viewpoint and effects the greater balance of the game in how the devs approach class balance with combat. Magblades are not exclusivley glass cannons, you have tank and healer nbs as well, which completely renders your entire point irrelevant.
For the last time, objective intentional resource sustain superiority has not ever and is not now something the developers ever condone.
And if you must know i have roughly 8000 hours
Of magblade experience, but more importantly, i am VERY educated of all aspects of all classes and thus am able to look outside of the echoing chamber when seeing chamges like the stride nerf and how it happened, and how it relates to the broader spectrum ofx this game. I dont feel further dialogue on the subject will help you here. I belive there is a disconnect with your perceived idea of what the class should be vs what is actually happening under the hood in this game.
to be clear i don't play anything other than PvP. and the only NB healer in PvP i know quite before argonians where even buffed.
so you want to talk about PvE, yeah i'm not the guy to talk to. there is no challenge in PvE so people can do whatever they want and excel at it so all these changes don't even really matter there.Edited by Lucky28 on May 5, 2018 9:12PMInvictus0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »
lol... Yeah im definitely done here.
healer NB's aren't that good. i couldn't even tell you the last time i saw a saptank or healer NB. i give them props because they're thinking outside the box, but.exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring game.
First and foremost, easy sustain / affordable spells was never thier identity. That contrast is not accurate especially when you are placing it against sorc shields or burst heals from a templar (which isnt even a templars identity either but im not going to get into that here). Magblades have always had unique ability in damage /healing synergy (soul tether / soul siphon, refreshing path, strife, sap essense). And that is only one aspect of the class, so trying to compartmentalize clases into strict singular representations is silly.
Magicka dps builds running similar setups does steal some wind out of the sails as far as class themes go, but sorcs can same the same thing (and often have). You want magblade to not be a sorc clone because sorcs have to use force pulse therefore force pulse is automatically a sorc ability, Twisting path vs liquid lightning, Frag vs Will, wrath vs impale etc etc, these are the individualizers, because to different classes make use of WoE and force pulse does not make them clones, amd likewise, if THAT is your argument, take it to a thread discussing the universal potency of the destro skill line or why each and every class in the game doesnt have a magicka equivalent to WoE and force pulse and take not of the feedback you get.
The you value the strength of healing while dealing damage, generating additional ultimate, and having your overall healing increased (which is perfectly designed in line with magblades life stealing, fearing shadow magick-esque thematics) then you will slot it over the available force pulse, which is designated as a strong tri elemental beam (not in any way whatsoever thematic to sorcs specifically). Resource costs has nothing to do with it.
Yes it was. hence why Strife originally cost like what like 900 something magicka and Siphion attacks resorted 1000 magicka and stamina per light attack. nightblade has always been about resources, saying otherwise means you don't really know the class very well. resources is where the classes strength is, it's where their strength was meant to be. it makes up a big part of their identity it's the basis for how they play just like every other class has their individual strength which is the basis for how they play. and if any other class faced a similar blow to their identity, i would not be in favor of it, it's a bad direction for the game to go in.
the thing is the rotaion is just too simular when you replace strife with force pulse.
magblade: cripple > light attack > force pulse > light attack > assassins will > impale
Sorc: Curse > light attack > force pulse > light attack > frag > mages wrath
that's basically an identical rotation a massive problem for individuality or classes.
the healing from strife is not something that cannot be replaced by another ability. the ultimate generation comes for using a siphoning ability of which strife is not the only ability you can use either. so no, everything about strife can be replaced.exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring and unimaginative game.
Sustain being class identity I don't even...
You "don't even" what?, pay attention?. apparently not.
resources has been the foundation for nightblades since 1.6 when i started playing the game this is not new or something i just made up today. NB's strength being in their resources has been true for a very long time.
A class identity is found within the overal theme of the class, the iconic skills and effects they bring with them. The resource management of a nightblade is bound to various passives, and the sustain from siphoning attacks. Not the cost of your spammable ability.
Even on PTS, nightblades are miles ahead of other classes in terms of sustain.
Your argument is illogical and unreasonable.
At launch, DKs dominated everything in cyrodiil. Now they're weaker than they ever were. Would you say that destroyed their class identity?
Being superior is not class identity. Class identity is defined by the various class skills, passives, and their effects. Damage and cost values are open for balance changes.
the overall theme of the class is low cost abilities, high regen, and resource return. they keep themselves up with HoT's and pressure which is directly tied to their sustain. they are built around their sustain hence why it is the class identity it is the foundation for which the class is built. it's the way it's always been it was just overlooked until recently because no one ever ran out of resources, until Morrowind.
and i don't know much about DK's which is why i don't go into their threads and talk about *** i don't know based on the limited knowledge of the class that i possess or what may appear op from an outside perspective. i leave that to the people who play those classes, who know those classes and who better understands what's best for those classes and how they play. a respect that unfortunately is not shared.
Yes they keep themselves afloat with hots and a steady stream of incoming resources, that is a thematic, and gameplay aspect of the magblade, you are confusing two seperate things here.
Resource managment is a universally binding mechanic at this games combat system's foundation. It is equalized amongst the classes to the best of the developers ability. Saying a class has inheritently, objectively superior sustain due to it being their identity, goes against that foundation entirely. Such a scenario would mandate that said class be mathematically inferior in the damage department, otherwise they would be uncontested in most endgame endeavors.
HOW a class acheives resource sustainably is an indentifier, not that they do it better than anyone else.
Okay do you play a magblade?. i really have to know because you don't seem to see how integral resources are to magblade over every other class. resouces are important to any class yes, but not to the same degree as magblade. to magblade resources are their number 1 defense they can't fall back on burst heals, or shield stacks and innate tankyness. when a magblade stops, they die they are the definition of a fast-paced, glass canon and their resources is what makes that playstyle even possible.
unlike every other class a magblade cannot go on the defensive when they do it's over they're dead. resources are the classes identity because that's their core foundation that dictates their entire playstyle. their ability to not stop is their primary defense and method of survival that super fast paced gameplay is why you play a magblade over sorc.
so if you want to take that aspect away, just give magblade a hardened ward and be done with it.exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring game.
First and foremost, easy sustain / affordable spells was never thier identity. That contrast is not accurate especially when you are placing it against sorc shields or burst heals from a templar (which isnt even a templars identity either but im not going to get into that here). Magblades have always had unique ability in damage /healing synergy (soul tether / soul siphon, refreshing path, strife, sap essense). And that is only one aspect of the class, so trying to compartmentalize clases into strict singular representations is silly.
Magicka dps builds running similar setups does steal some wind out of the sails as far as class themes go, but sorcs can same the same thing (and often have). You want magblade to not be a sorc clone because sorcs have to use force pulse therefore force pulse is automatically a sorc ability, Twisting path vs liquid lightning, Frag vs Will, wrath vs impale etc etc, these are the individualizers, because to different classes make use of WoE and force pulse does not make them clones, amd likewise, if THAT is your argument, take it to a thread discussing the universal potency of the destro skill line or why each and every class in the game doesnt have a magicka equivalent to WoE and force pulse and take not of the feedback you get.
The you value the strength of healing while dealing damage, generating additional ultimate, and having your overall healing increased (which is perfectly designed in line with magblades life stealing, fearing shadow magick-esque thematics) then you will slot it over the available force pulse, which is designated as a strong tri elemental beam (not in any way whatsoever thematic to sorcs specifically). Resource costs has nothing to do with it.
Yes it was. hence why Strife originally cost like what like 900 something magicka and Siphion attacks resorted 1000 magicka and stamina per light attack. nightblade has always been about resources, saying otherwise means you don't really know the class very well. resources is where the classes strength is, it's where their strength was meant to be. it makes up a big part of their identity it's the basis for how they play just like every other class has their individual strength which is the basis for how they play. and if any other class faced a similar blow to their identity, i would not be in favor of it, it's a bad direction for the game to go in.
the thing is the rotaion is just too simular when you replace strife with force pulse.
magblade: cripple > light attack > force pulse > light attack > assassins will > impale
Sorc: Curse > light attack > force pulse > light attack > frag > mages wrath
that's basically an identical rotation a massive problem for individuality or classes.
the healing from strife is not something that cannot be replaced by another ability. the ultimate generation comes for using a siphoning ability of which strife is not the only ability you can use either. so no, everything about strife can be replaced.exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring and unimaginative game.
Sustain being class identity I don't even...
You "don't even" what?, pay attention?. apparently not.
resources has been the foundation for nightblades since 1.6 when i started playing the game this is not new or something i just made up today. NB's strength being in their resources has been true for a very long time.
A class identity is found within the overal theme of the class, the iconic skills and effects they bring with them. The resource management of a nightblade is bound to various passives, and the sustain from siphoning attacks. Not the cost of your spammable ability.
Even on PTS, nightblades are miles ahead of other classes in terms of sustain.
Your argument is illogical and unreasonable.
At launch, DKs dominated everything in cyrodiil. Now they're weaker than they ever were. Would you say that destroyed their class identity?
Being superior is not class identity. Class identity is defined by the various class skills, passives, and their effects. Damage and cost values are open for balance changes.
the overall theme of the class is low cost abilities, high regen, and resource return. they keep themselves up with HoT's and pressure which is directly tied to their sustain. they are built around their sustain hence why it is the class identity it is the foundation for which the class is built. it's the way it's always been it was just overlooked until recently because no one ever ran out of resources, until Morrowind.
and i don't know much about DK's which is why i don't go into their threads and talk about *** i don't know based on the limited knowledge of the class that i possess or what may appear op from an outside perspective. i leave that to the people who play those classes, who know those classes and who better understands what's best for those classes and how they play. a respect that unfortunately is not shared.
Yeah I'm not going to respect the knowledge of someone who blatantly doesn't have any, you're damn right about that.
then i guess we view each other in the same light. now that that's out of the way.
I dont know how to even respond to that... you make 2 inquiries as to whether or not i play magblade which is telling tbh..
Resources have no coorrelation to active defense anymore than on any class as long as active defense costs resources. Your attempt here makes little sense, as what ibhave explained to you goes beyond your viewpoint and effects the greater balance of the game in how the devs approach class balance with combat. Magblades are not exclusivley glass cannons, you have tank and healer nbs as well, which completely renders your entire point irrelevant.
For the last time, objective intentional resource sustain superiority has not ever and is not now something the developers ever condone.
And if you must know i have roughly 8000 hours
Of magblade experience, but more importantly, i am VERY educated of all aspects of all classes and thus am able to look outside of the echoing chamber when seeing chamges like the stride nerf and how it happened, and how it relates to the broader spectrum ofx this game. I dont feel further dialogue on the subject will help you here. I belive there is a disconnect with your perceived idea of what the class should be vs what is actually happening under the hood in this game.
to be clear i don't play anything other than PvP. and the only NB healer in PvP i know quite before argonians where even buffed.
so you want to talk about PvE, yeah i'm not the guy to talk to. there is no challenge in PvE so people can do whatever they want and excel at it so all these changes don't even really matter there.
No actually im talking pvp first and foremost. Aside from the fact that ive healed all vet trials as NB.Edited by exeeter702 on May 5, 2018 9:16PM0 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »
lol... Yeah im definitely done here.
healer NB's aren't that good. i couldn't even tell you the last time i saw a saptank or healer NB. i give them props because they're thinking outside the box, but.exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring game.
First and foremost, easy sustain / affordable spells was never thier identity. That contrast is not accurate especially when you are placing it against sorc shields or burst heals from a templar (which isnt even a templars identity either but im not going to get into that here). Magblades have always had unique ability in damage /healing synergy (soul tether / soul siphon, refreshing path, strife, sap essense). And that is only one aspect of the class, so trying to compartmentalize clases into strict singular representations is silly.
Magicka dps builds running similar setups does steal some wind out of the sails as far as class themes go, but sorcs can same the same thing (and often have). You want magblade to not be a sorc clone because sorcs have to use force pulse therefore force pulse is automatically a sorc ability, Twisting path vs liquid lightning, Frag vs Will, wrath vs impale etc etc, these are the individualizers, because to different classes make use of WoE and force pulse does not make them clones, amd likewise, if THAT is your argument, take it to a thread discussing the universal potency of the destro skill line or why each and every class in the game doesnt have a magicka equivalent to WoE and force pulse and take not of the feedback you get.
The you value the strength of healing while dealing damage, generating additional ultimate, and having your overall healing increased (which is perfectly designed in line with magblades life stealing, fearing shadow magick-esque thematics) then you will slot it over the available force pulse, which is designated as a strong tri elemental beam (not in any way whatsoever thematic to sorcs specifically). Resource costs has nothing to do with it.
Yes it was. hence why Strife originally cost like what like 900 something magicka and Siphion attacks resorted 1000 magicka and stamina per light attack. nightblade has always been about resources, saying otherwise means you don't really know the class very well. resources is where the classes strength is, it's where their strength was meant to be. it makes up a big part of their identity it's the basis for how they play just like every other class has their individual strength which is the basis for how they play. and if any other class faced a similar blow to their identity, i would not be in favor of it, it's a bad direction for the game to go in.
the thing is the rotaion is just too simular when you replace strife with force pulse.
magblade: cripple > light attack > force pulse > light attack > assassins will > impale
Sorc: Curse > light attack > force pulse > light attack > frag > mages wrath
that's basically an identical rotation a massive problem for individuality or classes.
the healing from strife is not something that cannot be replaced by another ability. the ultimate generation comes for using a siphoning ability of which strife is not the only ability you can use either. so no, everything about strife can be replaced.exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring and unimaginative game.
Sustain being class identity I don't even...
You "don't even" what?, pay attention?. apparently not.
resources has been the foundation for nightblades since 1.6 when i started playing the game this is not new or something i just made up today. NB's strength being in their resources has been true for a very long time.
A class identity is found within the overal theme of the class, the iconic skills and effects they bring with them. The resource management of a nightblade is bound to various passives, and the sustain from siphoning attacks. Not the cost of your spammable ability.
Even on PTS, nightblades are miles ahead of other classes in terms of sustain.
Your argument is illogical and unreasonable.
At launch, DKs dominated everything in cyrodiil. Now they're weaker than they ever were. Would you say that destroyed their class identity?
Being superior is not class identity. Class identity is defined by the various class skills, passives, and their effects. Damage and cost values are open for balance changes.
the overall theme of the class is low cost abilities, high regen, and resource return. they keep themselves up with HoT's and pressure which is directly tied to their sustain. they are built around their sustain hence why it is the class identity it is the foundation for which the class is built. it's the way it's always been it was just overlooked until recently because no one ever ran out of resources, until Morrowind.
and i don't know much about DK's which is why i don't go into their threads and talk about *** i don't know based on the limited knowledge of the class that i possess or what may appear op from an outside perspective. i leave that to the people who play those classes, who know those classes and who better understands what's best for those classes and how they play. a respect that unfortunately is not shared.
Yes they keep themselves afloat with hots and a steady stream of incoming resources, that is a thematic, and gameplay aspect of the magblade, you are confusing two seperate things here.
Resource managment is a universally binding mechanic at this games combat system's foundation. It is equalized amongst the classes to the best of the developers ability. Saying a class has inheritently, objectively superior sustain due to it being their identity, goes against that foundation entirely. Such a scenario would mandate that said class be mathematically inferior in the damage department, otherwise they would be uncontested in most endgame endeavors.
HOW a class acheives resource sustainably is an indentifier, not that they do it better than anyone else.
Okay do you play a magblade?. i really have to know because you don't seem to see how integral resources are to magblade over every other class. resouces are important to any class yes, but not to the same degree as magblade. to magblade resources are their number 1 defense they can't fall back on burst heals, or shield stacks and innate tankyness. when a magblade stops, they die they are the definition of a fast-paced, glass canon and their resources is what makes that playstyle even possible.
unlike every other class a magblade cannot go on the defensive when they do it's over they're dead. resources are the classes identity because that's their core foundation that dictates their entire playstyle. their ability to not stop is their primary defense and method of survival that super fast paced gameplay is why you play a magblade over sorc.
so if you want to take that aspect away, just give magblade a hardened ward and be done with it.exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring game.
First and foremost, easy sustain / affordable spells was never thier identity. That contrast is not accurate especially when you are placing it against sorc shields or burst heals from a templar (which isnt even a templars identity either but im not going to get into that here). Magblades have always had unique ability in damage /healing synergy (soul tether / soul siphon, refreshing path, strife, sap essense). And that is only one aspect of the class, so trying to compartmentalize clases into strict singular representations is silly.
Magicka dps builds running similar setups does steal some wind out of the sails as far as class themes go, but sorcs can same the same thing (and often have). You want magblade to not be a sorc clone because sorcs have to use force pulse therefore force pulse is automatically a sorc ability, Twisting path vs liquid lightning, Frag vs Will, wrath vs impale etc etc, these are the individualizers, because to different classes make use of WoE and force pulse does not make them clones, amd likewise, if THAT is your argument, take it to a thread discussing the universal potency of the destro skill line or why each and every class in the game doesnt have a magicka equivalent to WoE and force pulse and take not of the feedback you get.
The you value the strength of healing while dealing damage, generating additional ultimate, and having your overall healing increased (which is perfectly designed in line with magblades life stealing, fearing shadow magick-esque thematics) then you will slot it over the available force pulse, which is designated as a strong tri elemental beam (not in any way whatsoever thematic to sorcs specifically). Resource costs has nothing to do with it.
Yes it was. hence why Strife originally cost like what like 900 something magicka and Siphion attacks resorted 1000 magicka and stamina per light attack. nightblade has always been about resources, saying otherwise means you don't really know the class very well. resources is where the classes strength is, it's where their strength was meant to be. it makes up a big part of their identity it's the basis for how they play just like every other class has their individual strength which is the basis for how they play. and if any other class faced a similar blow to their identity, i would not be in favor of it, it's a bad direction for the game to go in.
the thing is the rotaion is just too simular when you replace strife with force pulse.
magblade: cripple > light attack > force pulse > light attack > assassins will > impale
Sorc: Curse > light attack > force pulse > light attack > frag > mages wrath
that's basically an identical rotation a massive problem for individuality or classes.
the healing from strife is not something that cannot be replaced by another ability. the ultimate generation comes for using a siphoning ability of which strife is not the only ability you can use either. so no, everything about strife can be replaced.exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring and unimaginative game.
Sustain being class identity I don't even...
You "don't even" what?, pay attention?. apparently not.
resources has been the foundation for nightblades since 1.6 when i started playing the game this is not new or something i just made up today. NB's strength being in their resources has been true for a very long time.
A class identity is found within the overal theme of the class, the iconic skills and effects they bring with them. The resource management of a nightblade is bound to various passives, and the sustain from siphoning attacks. Not the cost of your spammable ability.
Even on PTS, nightblades are miles ahead of other classes in terms of sustain.
Your argument is illogical and unreasonable.
At launch, DKs dominated everything in cyrodiil. Now they're weaker than they ever were. Would you say that destroyed their class identity?
Being superior is not class identity. Class identity is defined by the various class skills, passives, and their effects. Damage and cost values are open for balance changes.
the overall theme of the class is low cost abilities, high regen, and resource return. they keep themselves up with HoT's and pressure which is directly tied to their sustain. they are built around their sustain hence why it is the class identity it is the foundation for which the class is built. it's the way it's always been it was just overlooked until recently because no one ever ran out of resources, until Morrowind.
and i don't know much about DK's which is why i don't go into their threads and talk about *** i don't know based on the limited knowledge of the class that i possess or what may appear op from an outside perspective. i leave that to the people who play those classes, who know those classes and who better understands what's best for those classes and how they play. a respect that unfortunately is not shared.
Yeah I'm not going to respect the knowledge of someone who blatantly doesn't have any, you're damn right about that.
then i guess we view each other in the same light. now that that's out of the way.
I dont know how to even respond to that... you make 2 inquiries as to whether or not i play magblade which is telling tbh..
Resources have no coorrelation to active defense anymore than on any class as long as active defense costs resources. Your attempt here makes little sense, as what ibhave explained to you goes beyond your viewpoint and effects the greater balance of the game in how the devs approach class balance with combat. Magblades are not exclusivley glass cannons, you have tank and healer nbs as well, which completely renders your entire point irrelevant.
For the last time, objective intentional resource sustain superiority has not ever and is not now something the developers ever condone.
And if you must know i have roughly 8000 hours
Of magblade experience, but more importantly, i am VERY educated of all aspects of all classes and thus am able to look outside of the echoing chamber when seeing chamges like the stride nerf and how it happened, and how it relates to the broader spectrum ofx this game. I dont feel further dialogue on the subject will help you here. I belive there is a disconnect with your perceived idea of what the class should be vs what is actually happening under the hood in this game.
to be clear i don't play anything other than PvP. and the only NB healer in PvP i know quite before argonians where even buffed.
so you want to talk about PvE, yeah i'm not the guy to talk to. there is no challenge in PvE so people can do whatever they want and excel at it so all these changes don't even really matter there.
No actually im talking pvp.
not a spec i play nor do i know anyone who plays or wants to play an NB healer so i'll admit i'm in the dark on that one. they did give some good buffs to the healing morph of tether and offering but does that really put them above or on par with templars and wardens?.
but really the reason i'm so triggered about strife change is because for this change i've been running Force pulse with Drain health poisons. a pseudo Strife on a pseudo sorc. and it's just really pissing me off.
and if it wasn't pissing me off so much it would actually be quite funny. I mean it plays like a NB trying to be a Sorc who's trying to be a NB. like i don't even know wtf i'm playing anymore XDEdited by Lucky28 on May 5, 2018 11:24PMInvictus0 -
HuawaSepp✭✭✭
nor do i know anyone who plays or wants to play an NB healer.exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »
lol... Yeah im definitely done here.
healer NB's aren't that good. i couldn't even tell you the last time i saw a saptank or healer NB. i give them props because they're thinking outside the box, but.exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring game.
First and foremost, easy sustain / affordable spells was never thier identity. That contrast is not accurate especially when you are placing it against sorc shields or burst heals from a templar (which isnt even a templars identity either but im not going to get into that here). Magblades have always had unique ability in damage /healing synergy (soul tether / soul siphon, refreshing path, strife, sap essense). And that is only one aspect of the class, so trying to compartmentalize clases into strict singular representations is silly.
Magicka dps builds running similar setups does steal some wind out of the sails as far as class themes go, but sorcs can same the same thing (and often have). You want magblade to not be a sorc clone because sorcs have to use force pulse therefore force pulse is automatically a sorc ability, Twisting path vs liquid lightning, Frag vs Will, wrath vs impale etc etc, these are the individualizers, because to different classes make use of WoE and force pulse does not make them clones, amd likewise, if THAT is your argument, take it to a thread discussing the universal potency of the destro skill line or why each and every class in the game doesnt have a magicka equivalent to WoE and force pulse and take not of the feedback you get.
The you value the strength of healing while dealing damage, generating additional ultimate, and having your overall healing increased (which is perfectly designed in line with magblades life stealing, fearing shadow magick-esque thematics) then you will slot it over the available force pulse, which is designated as a strong tri elemental beam (not in any way whatsoever thematic to sorcs specifically). Resource costs has nothing to do with it.
Yes it was. hence why Strife originally cost like what like 900 something magicka and Siphion attacks resorted 1000 magicka and stamina per light attack. nightblade has always been about resources, saying otherwise means you don't really know the class very well. resources is where the classes strength is, it's where their strength was meant to be. it makes up a big part of their identity it's the basis for how they play just like every other class has their individual strength which is the basis for how they play. and if any other class faced a similar blow to their identity, i would not be in favor of it, it's a bad direction for the game to go in.
the thing is the rotaion is just too simular when you replace strife with force pulse.
magblade: cripple > light attack > force pulse > light attack > assassins will > impale
Sorc: Curse > light attack > force pulse > light attack > frag > mages wrath
that's basically an identical rotation a massive problem for individuality or classes.
the healing from strife is not something that cannot be replaced by another ability. the ultimate generation comes for using a siphoning ability of which strife is not the only ability you can use either. so no, everything about strife can be replaced.exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring and unimaginative game.
Sustain being class identity I don't even...
You "don't even" what?, pay attention?. apparently not.
resources has been the foundation for nightblades since 1.6 when i started playing the game this is not new or something i just made up today. NB's strength being in their resources has been true for a very long time.
A class identity is found within the overal theme of the class, the iconic skills and effects they bring with them. The resource management of a nightblade is bound to various passives, and the sustain from siphoning attacks. Not the cost of your spammable ability.
Even on PTS, nightblades are miles ahead of other classes in terms of sustain.
Your argument is illogical and unreasonable.
At launch, DKs dominated everything in cyrodiil. Now they're weaker than they ever were. Would you say that destroyed their class identity?
Being superior is not class identity. Class identity is defined by the various class skills, passives, and their effects. Damage and cost values are open for balance changes.
the overall theme of the class is low cost abilities, high regen, and resource return. they keep themselves up with HoT's and pressure which is directly tied to their sustain. they are built around their sustain hence why it is the class identity it is the foundation for which the class is built. it's the way it's always been it was just overlooked until recently because no one ever ran out of resources, until Morrowind.
and i don't know much about DK's which is why i don't go into their threads and talk about *** i don't know based on the limited knowledge of the class that i possess or what may appear op from an outside perspective. i leave that to the people who play those classes, who know those classes and who better understands what's best for those classes and how they play. a respect that unfortunately is not shared.
Yes they keep themselves afloat with hots and a steady stream of incoming resources, that is a thematic, and gameplay aspect of the magblade, you are confusing two seperate things here.
Resource managment is a universally binding mechanic at this games combat system's foundation. It is equalized amongst the classes to the best of the developers ability. Saying a class has inheritently, objectively superior sustain due to it being their identity, goes against that foundation entirely. Such a scenario would mandate that said class be mathematically inferior in the damage department, otherwise they would be uncontested in most endgame endeavors.
HOW a class acheives resource sustainably is an indentifier, not that they do it better than anyone else.
Okay do you play a magblade?. i really have to know because you don't seem to see how integral resources are to magblade over every other class. resouces are important to any class yes, but not to the same degree as magblade. to magblade resources are their number 1 defense they can't fall back on burst heals, or shield stacks and innate tankyness. when a magblade stops, they die they are the definition of a fast-paced, glass canon and their resources is what makes that playstyle even possible.
unlike every other class a magblade cannot go on the defensive when they do it's over they're dead. resources are the classes identity because that's their core foundation that dictates their entire playstyle. their ability to not stop is their primary defense and method of survival that super fast paced gameplay is why you play a magblade over sorc.
so if you want to take that aspect away, just give magblade a hardened ward and be done with it.exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring game.
First and foremost, easy sustain / affordable spells was never thier identity. That contrast is not accurate especially when you are placing it against sorc shields or burst heals from a templar (which isnt even a templars identity either but im not going to get into that here). Magblades have always had unique ability in damage /healing synergy (soul tether / soul siphon, refreshing path, strife, sap essense). And that is only one aspect of the class, so trying to compartmentalize clases into strict singular representations is silly.
Magicka dps builds running similar setups does steal some wind out of the sails as far as class themes go, but sorcs can same the same thing (and often have). You want magblade to not be a sorc clone because sorcs have to use force pulse therefore force pulse is automatically a sorc ability, Twisting path vs liquid lightning, Frag vs Will, wrath vs impale etc etc, these are the individualizers, because to different classes make use of WoE and force pulse does not make them clones, amd likewise, if THAT is your argument, take it to a thread discussing the universal potency of the destro skill line or why each and every class in the game doesnt have a magicka equivalent to WoE and force pulse and take not of the feedback you get.
The you value the strength of healing while dealing damage, generating additional ultimate, and having your overall healing increased (which is perfectly designed in line with magblades life stealing, fearing shadow magick-esque thematics) then you will slot it over the available force pulse, which is designated as a strong tri elemental beam (not in any way whatsoever thematic to sorcs specifically). Resource costs has nothing to do with it.
Yes it was. hence why Strife originally cost like what like 900 something magicka and Siphion attacks resorted 1000 magicka and stamina per light attack. nightblade has always been about resources, saying otherwise means you don't really know the class very well. resources is where the classes strength is, it's where their strength was meant to be. it makes up a big part of their identity it's the basis for how they play just like every other class has their individual strength which is the basis for how they play. and if any other class faced a similar blow to their identity, i would not be in favor of it, it's a bad direction for the game to go in.
the thing is the rotaion is just too simular when you replace strife with force pulse.
magblade: cripple > light attack > force pulse > light attack > assassins will > impale
Sorc: Curse > light attack > force pulse > light attack > frag > mages wrath
that's basically an identical rotation a massive problem for individuality or classes.
the healing from strife is not something that cannot be replaced by another ability. the ultimate generation comes for using a siphoning ability of which strife is not the only ability you can use either. so no, everything about strife can be replaced.exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring and unimaginative game.
Sustain being class identity I don't even...
You "don't even" what?, pay attention?. apparently not.
resources has been the foundation for nightblades since 1.6 when i started playing the game this is not new or something i just made up today. NB's strength being in their resources has been true for a very long time.
A class identity is found within the overal theme of the class, the iconic skills and effects they bring with them. The resource management of a nightblade is bound to various passives, and the sustain from siphoning attacks. Not the cost of your spammable ability.
Even on PTS, nightblades are miles ahead of other classes in terms of sustain.
Your argument is illogical and unreasonable.
At launch, DKs dominated everything in cyrodiil. Now they're weaker than they ever were. Would you say that destroyed their class identity?
Being superior is not class identity. Class identity is defined by the various class skills, passives, and their effects. Damage and cost values are open for balance changes.
the overall theme of the class is low cost abilities, high regen, and resource return. they keep themselves up with HoT's and pressure which is directly tied to their sustain. they are built around their sustain hence why it is the class identity it is the foundation for which the class is built. it's the way it's always been it was just overlooked until recently because no one ever ran out of resources, until Morrowind.
and i don't know much about DK's which is why i don't go into their threads and talk about *** i don't know based on the limited knowledge of the class that i possess or what may appear op from an outside perspective. i leave that to the people who play those classes, who know those classes and who better understands what's best for those classes and how they play. a respect that unfortunately is not shared.
Yeah I'm not going to respect the knowledge of someone who blatantly doesn't have any, you're damn right about that.
then i guess we view each other in the same light. now that that's out of the way.
I dont know how to even respond to that... you make 2 inquiries as to whether or not i play magblade which is telling tbh..
Resources have no coorrelation to active defense anymore than on any class as long as active defense costs resources. Your attempt here makes little sense, as what ibhave explained to you goes beyond your viewpoint and effects the greater balance of the game in how the devs approach class balance with combat. Magblades are not exclusivley glass cannons, you have tank and healer nbs as well, which completely renders your entire point irrelevant.
For the last time, objective intentional resource sustain superiority has not ever and is not now something the developers ever condone.
And if you must know i have roughly 8000 hours
Of magblade experience, but more importantly, i am VERY educated of all aspects of all classes and thus am able to look outside of the echoing chamber when seeing chamges like the stride nerf and how it happened, and how it relates to the broader spectrum ofx this game. I dont feel further dialogue on the subject will help you here. I belive there is a disconnect with your perceived idea of what the class should be vs what is actually happening under the hood in this game.
to be clear i don't play anything other than PvP. and the only NB healer in PvP i know quite before argonians where even buffed.
so you want to talk about PvE, yeah i'm not the guy to talk to. there is no challenge in PvE so people can do whatever they want and excel at it so all these changes don't even really matter there.
No actually im talking pvp.
For a good reason.
You don't have to play a NB heal, just look at the abilities and then look at the abilities of a templar.
Burst heal and group support actually matters.
You don't need group support even for the hardest content in the game, but it makes it much easier.PTS-EU0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »
lol... Yeah im definitely done here.
healer NB's aren't that good. i couldn't even tell you the last time i saw a saptank or healer NB. i give them props because they're thinking outside the box, but.exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring game.
First and foremost, easy sustain / affordable spells was never thier identity. That contrast is not accurate especially when you are placing it against sorc shields or burst heals from a templar (which isnt even a templars identity either but im not going to get into that here). Magblades have always had unique ability in damage /healing synergy (soul tether / soul siphon, refreshing path, strife, sap essense). And that is only one aspect of the class, so trying to compartmentalize clases into strict singular representations is silly.
Magicka dps builds running similar setups does steal some wind out of the sails as far as class themes go, but sorcs can same the same thing (and often have). You want magblade to not be a sorc clone because sorcs have to use force pulse therefore force pulse is automatically a sorc ability, Twisting path vs liquid lightning, Frag vs Will, wrath vs impale etc etc, these are the individualizers, because to different classes make use of WoE and force pulse does not make them clones, amd likewise, if THAT is your argument, take it to a thread discussing the universal potency of the destro skill line or why each and every class in the game doesnt have a magicka equivalent to WoE and force pulse and take not of the feedback you get.
The you value the strength of healing while dealing damage, generating additional ultimate, and having your overall healing increased (which is perfectly designed in line with magblades life stealing, fearing shadow magick-esque thematics) then you will slot it over the available force pulse, which is designated as a strong tri elemental beam (not in any way whatsoever thematic to sorcs specifically). Resource costs has nothing to do with it.
Yes it was. hence why Strife originally cost like what like 900 something magicka and Siphion attacks resorted 1000 magicka and stamina per light attack. nightblade has always been about resources, saying otherwise means you don't really know the class very well. resources is where the classes strength is, it's where their strength was meant to be. it makes up a big part of their identity it's the basis for how they play just like every other class has their individual strength which is the basis for how they play. and if any other class faced a similar blow to their identity, i would not be in favor of it, it's a bad direction for the game to go in.
the thing is the rotaion is just too simular when you replace strife with force pulse.
magblade: cripple > light attack > force pulse > light attack > assassins will > impale
Sorc: Curse > light attack > force pulse > light attack > frag > mages wrath
that's basically an identical rotation a massive problem for individuality or classes.
the healing from strife is not something that cannot be replaced by another ability. the ultimate generation comes for using a siphoning ability of which strife is not the only ability you can use either. so no, everything about strife can be replaced.exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring and unimaginative game.
Sustain being class identity I don't even...
You "don't even" what?, pay attention?. apparently not.
resources has been the foundation for nightblades since 1.6 when i started playing the game this is not new or something i just made up today. NB's strength being in their resources has been true for a very long time.
A class identity is found within the overal theme of the class, the iconic skills and effects they bring with them. The resource management of a nightblade is bound to various passives, and the sustain from siphoning attacks. Not the cost of your spammable ability.
Even on PTS, nightblades are miles ahead of other classes in terms of sustain.
Your argument is illogical and unreasonable.
At launch, DKs dominated everything in cyrodiil. Now they're weaker than they ever were. Would you say that destroyed their class identity?
Being superior is not class identity. Class identity is defined by the various class skills, passives, and their effects. Damage and cost values are open for balance changes.
the overall theme of the class is low cost abilities, high regen, and resource return. they keep themselves up with HoT's and pressure which is directly tied to their sustain. they are built around their sustain hence why it is the class identity it is the foundation for which the class is built. it's the way it's always been it was just overlooked until recently because no one ever ran out of resources, until Morrowind.
and i don't know much about DK's which is why i don't go into their threads and talk about *** i don't know based on the limited knowledge of the class that i possess or what may appear op from an outside perspective. i leave that to the people who play those classes, who know those classes and who better understands what's best for those classes and how they play. a respect that unfortunately is not shared.
Yes they keep themselves afloat with hots and a steady stream of incoming resources, that is a thematic, and gameplay aspect of the magblade, you are confusing two seperate things here.
Resource managment is a universally binding mechanic at this games combat system's foundation. It is equalized amongst the classes to the best of the developers ability. Saying a class has inheritently, objectively superior sustain due to it being their identity, goes against that foundation entirely. Such a scenario would mandate that said class be mathematically inferior in the damage department, otherwise they would be uncontested in most endgame endeavors.
HOW a class acheives resource sustainably is an indentifier, not that they do it better than anyone else.
Okay do you play a magblade?. i really have to know because you don't seem to see how integral resources are to magblade over every other class. resouces are important to any class yes, but not to the same degree as magblade. to magblade resources are their number 1 defense they can't fall back on burst heals, or shield stacks and innate tankyness. when a magblade stops, they die they are the definition of a fast-paced, glass canon and their resources is what makes that playstyle even possible.
unlike every other class a magblade cannot go on the defensive when they do it's over they're dead. resources are the classes identity because that's their core foundation that dictates their entire playstyle. their ability to not stop is their primary defense and method of survival that super fast paced gameplay is why you play a magblade over sorc.
so if you want to take that aspect away, just give magblade a hardened ward and be done with it.exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring game.
First and foremost, easy sustain / affordable spells was never thier identity. That contrast is not accurate especially when you are placing it against sorc shields or burst heals from a templar (which isnt even a templars identity either but im not going to get into that here). Magblades have always had unique ability in damage /healing synergy (soul tether / soul siphon, refreshing path, strife, sap essense). And that is only one aspect of the class, so trying to compartmentalize clases into strict singular representations is silly.
Magicka dps builds running similar setups does steal some wind out of the sails as far as class themes go, but sorcs can same the same thing (and often have). You want magblade to not be a sorc clone because sorcs have to use force pulse therefore force pulse is automatically a sorc ability, Twisting path vs liquid lightning, Frag vs Will, wrath vs impale etc etc, these are the individualizers, because to different classes make use of WoE and force pulse does not make them clones, amd likewise, if THAT is your argument, take it to a thread discussing the universal potency of the destro skill line or why each and every class in the game doesnt have a magicka equivalent to WoE and force pulse and take not of the feedback you get.
The you value the strength of healing while dealing damage, generating additional ultimate, and having your overall healing increased (which is perfectly designed in line with magblades life stealing, fearing shadow magick-esque thematics) then you will slot it over the available force pulse, which is designated as a strong tri elemental beam (not in any way whatsoever thematic to sorcs specifically). Resource costs has nothing to do with it.
Yes it was. hence why Strife originally cost like what like 900 something magicka and Siphion attacks resorted 1000 magicka and stamina per light attack. nightblade has always been about resources, saying otherwise means you don't really know the class very well. resources is where the classes strength is, it's where their strength was meant to be. it makes up a big part of their identity it's the basis for how they play just like every other class has their individual strength which is the basis for how they play. and if any other class faced a similar blow to their identity, i would not be in favor of it, it's a bad direction for the game to go in.
the thing is the rotaion is just too simular when you replace strife with force pulse.
magblade: cripple > light attack > force pulse > light attack > assassins will > impale
Sorc: Curse > light attack > force pulse > light attack > frag > mages wrath
that's basically an identical rotation a massive problem for individuality or classes.
the healing from strife is not something that cannot be replaced by another ability. the ultimate generation comes for using a siphoning ability of which strife is not the only ability you can use either. so no, everything about strife can be replaced.exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring and unimaginative game.
Sustain being class identity I don't even...
You "don't even" what?, pay attention?. apparently not.
resources has been the foundation for nightblades since 1.6 when i started playing the game this is not new or something i just made up today. NB's strength being in their resources has been true for a very long time.
A class identity is found within the overal theme of the class, the iconic skills and effects they bring with them. The resource management of a nightblade is bound to various passives, and the sustain from siphoning attacks. Not the cost of your spammable ability.
Even on PTS, nightblades are miles ahead of other classes in terms of sustain.
Your argument is illogical and unreasonable.
At launch, DKs dominated everything in cyrodiil. Now they're weaker than they ever were. Would you say that destroyed their class identity?
Being superior is not class identity. Class identity is defined by the various class skills, passives, and their effects. Damage and cost values are open for balance changes.
the overall theme of the class is low cost abilities, high regen, and resource return. they keep themselves up with HoT's and pressure which is directly tied to their sustain. they are built around their sustain hence why it is the class identity it is the foundation for which the class is built. it's the way it's always been it was just overlooked until recently because no one ever ran out of resources, until Morrowind.
and i don't know much about DK's which is why i don't go into their threads and talk about *** i don't know based on the limited knowledge of the class that i possess or what may appear op from an outside perspective. i leave that to the people who play those classes, who know those classes and who better understands what's best for those classes and how they play. a respect that unfortunately is not shared.
Yeah I'm not going to respect the knowledge of someone who blatantly doesn't have any, you're damn right about that.
then i guess we view each other in the same light. now that that's out of the way.
I dont know how to even respond to that... you make 2 inquiries as to whether or not i play magblade which is telling tbh..
Resources have no coorrelation to active defense anymore than on any class as long as active defense costs resources. Your attempt here makes little sense, as what ibhave explained to you goes beyond your viewpoint and effects the greater balance of the game in how the devs approach class balance with combat. Magblades are not exclusivley glass cannons, you have tank and healer nbs as well, which completely renders your entire point irrelevant.
For the last time, objective intentional resource sustain superiority has not ever and is not now something the developers ever condone.
And if you must know i have roughly 8000 hours
Of magblade experience, but more importantly, i am VERY educated of all aspects of all classes and thus am able to look outside of the echoing chamber when seeing chamges like the stride nerf and how it happened, and how it relates to the broader spectrum ofx this game. I dont feel further dialogue on the subject will help you here. I belive there is a disconnect with your perceived idea of what the class should be vs what is actually happening under the hood in this game.
to be clear i don't play anything other than PvP. and the only NB healer in PvP i know quite before argonians where even buffed.
so you want to talk about PvE, yeah i'm not the guy to talk to. there is no challenge in PvE so people can do whatever they want and excel at it so all these changes don't even really matter there.
No actually im talking pvp.
not a spec i play nor do i know anyone who plays or wants to play an NB healer so i'll admit i'm in the dark on that one. they did give some good buffs to the healing morph of tether and offering but does that really put them above or on par with templars and wardens?.
but really the reason i'm so triggered about strife change is because for this change i've been running Force pulse with Drain health poisons. a pseudo Strife on a pseudo sorc. and it's just really pissing me off.
and if it wasn't pissing me off so much it would actually be quite funny. I mean it plays like a NB trying to be a Sorc who's trying to be a NB. like i don't even know wtf i'm playing anymore XD
I play all kinds of NB and this does heavily effect healing and tanks. If they destroy strife then they have to destroy the cost of burning embers tooFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info1 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »
lol... Yeah im definitely done here.
healer NB's aren't that good. i couldn't even tell you the last time i saw a saptank or healer NB. i give them props because they're thinking outside the box, but.exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring game.
First and foremost, easy sustain / affordable spells was never thier identity. That contrast is not accurate especially when you are placing it against sorc shields or burst heals from a templar (which isnt even a templars identity either but im not going to get into that here). Magblades have always had unique ability in damage /healing synergy (soul tether / soul siphon, refreshing path, strife, sap essense). And that is only one aspect of the class, so trying to compartmentalize clases into strict singular representations is silly.
Magicka dps builds running similar setups does steal some wind out of the sails as far as class themes go, but sorcs can same the same thing (and often have). You want magblade to not be a sorc clone because sorcs have to use force pulse therefore force pulse is automatically a sorc ability, Twisting path vs liquid lightning, Frag vs Will, wrath vs impale etc etc, these are the individualizers, because to different classes make use of WoE and force pulse does not make them clones, amd likewise, if THAT is your argument, take it to a thread discussing the universal potency of the destro skill line or why each and every class in the game doesnt have a magicka equivalent to WoE and force pulse and take not of the feedback you get.
The you value the strength of healing while dealing damage, generating additional ultimate, and having your overall healing increased (which is perfectly designed in line with magblades life stealing, fearing shadow magick-esque thematics) then you will slot it over the available force pulse, which is designated as a strong tri elemental beam (not in any way whatsoever thematic to sorcs specifically). Resource costs has nothing to do with it.
Yes it was. hence why Strife originally cost like what like 900 something magicka and Siphion attacks resorted 1000 magicka and stamina per light attack. nightblade has always been about resources, saying otherwise means you don't really know the class very well. resources is where the classes strength is, it's where their strength was meant to be. it makes up a big part of their identity it's the basis for how they play just like every other class has their individual strength which is the basis for how they play. and if any other class faced a similar blow to their identity, i would not be in favor of it, it's a bad direction for the game to go in.
the thing is the rotaion is just too simular when you replace strife with force pulse.
magblade: cripple > light attack > force pulse > light attack > assassins will > impale
Sorc: Curse > light attack > force pulse > light attack > frag > mages wrath
that's basically an identical rotation a massive problem for individuality or classes.
the healing from strife is not something that cannot be replaced by another ability. the ultimate generation comes for using a siphoning ability of which strife is not the only ability you can use either. so no, everything about strife can be replaced.exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring and unimaginative game.
Sustain being class identity I don't even...
You "don't even" what?, pay attention?. apparently not.
resources has been the foundation for nightblades since 1.6 when i started playing the game this is not new or something i just made up today. NB's strength being in their resources has been true for a very long time.
A class identity is found within the overal theme of the class, the iconic skills and effects they bring with them. The resource management of a nightblade is bound to various passives, and the sustain from siphoning attacks. Not the cost of your spammable ability.
Even on PTS, nightblades are miles ahead of other classes in terms of sustain.
Your argument is illogical and unreasonable.
At launch, DKs dominated everything in cyrodiil. Now they're weaker than they ever were. Would you say that destroyed their class identity?
Being superior is not class identity. Class identity is defined by the various class skills, passives, and their effects. Damage and cost values are open for balance changes.
the overall theme of the class is low cost abilities, high regen, and resource return. they keep themselves up with HoT's and pressure which is directly tied to their sustain. they are built around their sustain hence why it is the class identity it is the foundation for which the class is built. it's the way it's always been it was just overlooked until recently because no one ever ran out of resources, until Morrowind.
and i don't know much about DK's which is why i don't go into their threads and talk about *** i don't know based on the limited knowledge of the class that i possess or what may appear op from an outside perspective. i leave that to the people who play those classes, who know those classes and who better understands what's best for those classes and how they play. a respect that unfortunately is not shared.
Yes they keep themselves afloat with hots and a steady stream of incoming resources, that is a thematic, and gameplay aspect of the magblade, you are confusing two seperate things here.
Resource managment is a universally binding mechanic at this games combat system's foundation. It is equalized amongst the classes to the best of the developers ability. Saying a class has inheritently, objectively superior sustain due to it being their identity, goes against that foundation entirely. Such a scenario would mandate that said class be mathematically inferior in the damage department, otherwise they would be uncontested in most endgame endeavors.
HOW a class acheives resource sustainably is an indentifier, not that they do it better than anyone else.
Okay do you play a magblade?. i really have to know because you don't seem to see how integral resources are to magblade over every other class. resouces are important to any class yes, but not to the same degree as magblade. to magblade resources are their number 1 defense they can't fall back on burst heals, or shield stacks and innate tankyness. when a magblade stops, they die they are the definition of a fast-paced, glass canon and their resources is what makes that playstyle even possible.
unlike every other class a magblade cannot go on the defensive when they do it's over they're dead. resources are the classes identity because that's their core foundation that dictates their entire playstyle. their ability to not stop is their primary defense and method of survival that super fast paced gameplay is why you play a magblade over sorc.
so if you want to take that aspect away, just give magblade a hardened ward and be done with it.exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring game.
First and foremost, easy sustain / affordable spells was never thier identity. That contrast is not accurate especially when you are placing it against sorc shields or burst heals from a templar (which isnt even a templars identity either but im not going to get into that here). Magblades have always had unique ability in damage /healing synergy (soul tether / soul siphon, refreshing path, strife, sap essense). And that is only one aspect of the class, so trying to compartmentalize clases into strict singular representations is silly.
Magicka dps builds running similar setups does steal some wind out of the sails as far as class themes go, but sorcs can same the same thing (and often have). You want magblade to not be a sorc clone because sorcs have to use force pulse therefore force pulse is automatically a sorc ability, Twisting path vs liquid lightning, Frag vs Will, wrath vs impale etc etc, these are the individualizers, because to different classes make use of WoE and force pulse does not make them clones, amd likewise, if THAT is your argument, take it to a thread discussing the universal potency of the destro skill line or why each and every class in the game doesnt have a magicka equivalent to WoE and force pulse and take not of the feedback you get.
The you value the strength of healing while dealing damage, generating additional ultimate, and having your overall healing increased (which is perfectly designed in line with magblades life stealing, fearing shadow magick-esque thematics) then you will slot it over the available force pulse, which is designated as a strong tri elemental beam (not in any way whatsoever thematic to sorcs specifically). Resource costs has nothing to do with it.
Yes it was. hence why Strife originally cost like what like 900 something magicka and Siphion attacks resorted 1000 magicka and stamina per light attack. nightblade has always been about resources, saying otherwise means you don't really know the class very well. resources is where the classes strength is, it's where their strength was meant to be. it makes up a big part of their identity it's the basis for how they play just like every other class has their individual strength which is the basis for how they play. and if any other class faced a similar blow to their identity, i would not be in favor of it, it's a bad direction for the game to go in.
the thing is the rotaion is just too simular when you replace strife with force pulse.
magblade: cripple > light attack > force pulse > light attack > assassins will > impale
Sorc: Curse > light attack > force pulse > light attack > frag > mages wrath
that's basically an identical rotation a massive problem for individuality or classes.
the healing from strife is not something that cannot be replaced by another ability. the ultimate generation comes for using a siphoning ability of which strife is not the only ability you can use either. so no, everything about strife can be replaced.exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring and unimaginative game.
Sustain being class identity I don't even...
You "don't even" what?, pay attention?. apparently not.
resources has been the foundation for nightblades since 1.6 when i started playing the game this is not new or something i just made up today. NB's strength being in their resources has been true for a very long time.
A class identity is found within the overal theme of the class, the iconic skills and effects they bring with them. The resource management of a nightblade is bound to various passives, and the sustain from siphoning attacks. Not the cost of your spammable ability.
Even on PTS, nightblades are miles ahead of other classes in terms of sustain.
Your argument is illogical and unreasonable.
At launch, DKs dominated everything in cyrodiil. Now they're weaker than they ever were. Would you say that destroyed their class identity?
Being superior is not class identity. Class identity is defined by the various class skills, passives, and their effects. Damage and cost values are open for balance changes.
the overall theme of the class is low cost abilities, high regen, and resource return. they keep themselves up with HoT's and pressure which is directly tied to their sustain. they are built around their sustain hence why it is the class identity it is the foundation for which the class is built. it's the way it's always been it was just overlooked until recently because no one ever ran out of resources, until Morrowind.
and i don't know much about DK's which is why i don't go into their threads and talk about *** i don't know based on the limited knowledge of the class that i possess or what may appear op from an outside perspective. i leave that to the people who play those classes, who know those classes and who better understands what's best for those classes and how they play. a respect that unfortunately is not shared.
Yeah I'm not going to respect the knowledge of someone who blatantly doesn't have any, you're damn right about that.
then i guess we view each other in the same light. now that that's out of the way.
I dont know how to even respond to that... you make 2 inquiries as to whether or not i play magblade which is telling tbh..
Resources have no coorrelation to active defense anymore than on any class as long as active defense costs resources. Your attempt here makes little sense, as what ibhave explained to you goes beyond your viewpoint and effects the greater balance of the game in how the devs approach class balance with combat. Magblades are not exclusivley glass cannons, you have tank and healer nbs as well, which completely renders your entire point irrelevant.
For the last time, objective intentional resource sustain superiority has not ever and is not now something the developers ever condone.
And if you must know i have roughly 8000 hours
Of magblade experience, but more importantly, i am VERY educated of all aspects of all classes and thus am able to look outside of the echoing chamber when seeing chamges like the stride nerf and how it happened, and how it relates to the broader spectrum ofx this game. I dont feel further dialogue on the subject will help you here. I belive there is a disconnect with your perceived idea of what the class should be vs what is actually happening under the hood in this game.
to be clear i don't play anything other than PvP. and the only NB healer in PvP i know quite before argonians where even buffed.
so you want to talk about PvE, yeah i'm not the guy to talk to. there is no challenge in PvE so people can do whatever they want and excel at it so all these changes don't even really matter there.
No actually im talking pvp.
not a spec i play nor do i know anyone who plays or wants to play an NB healer so i'll admit i'm in the dark on that one. they did give some good buffs to the healing morph of tether and offering but does that really put them above or on par with templars and wardens?.
but really the reason i'm so triggered about strife change is because for this change i've been running Force pulse with Drain health poisons. a pseudo Strife on a pseudo sorc. and it's just really pissing me off.
and if it wasn't pissing me off so much it would actually be quite funny. I mean it plays like a NB trying to be a Sorc who's trying to be a NB. like i don't even know wtf i'm playing anymore XD
I play all kinds of NB and this does heavily effect healing and tanks. If they destroy strife then they have to destroy the cost of burning embers too
that would make logical sense and it will probably happen if the strife change happens. i really hope neither happen i want classes and class skills to remain unique.
just hope ZoS changes their mind.Edited by Lucky28 on May 6, 2018 6:03AMInvictus0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
nor do i know anyone who plays or wants to play an NB healer.exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »
lol... Yeah im definitely done here.
healer NB's aren't that good. i couldn't even tell you the last time i saw a saptank or healer NB. i give them props because they're thinking outside the box, but.exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring game.
First and foremost, easy sustain / affordable spells was never thier identity. That contrast is not accurate especially when you are placing it against sorc shields or burst heals from a templar (which isnt even a templars identity either but im not going to get into that here). Magblades have always had unique ability in damage /healing synergy (soul tether / soul siphon, refreshing path, strife, sap essense). And that is only one aspect of the class, so trying to compartmentalize clases into strict singular representations is silly.
Magicka dps builds running similar setups does steal some wind out of the sails as far as class themes go, but sorcs can same the same thing (and often have). You want magblade to not be a sorc clone because sorcs have to use force pulse therefore force pulse is automatically a sorc ability, Twisting path vs liquid lightning, Frag vs Will, wrath vs impale etc etc, these are the individualizers, because to different classes make use of WoE and force pulse does not make them clones, amd likewise, if THAT is your argument, take it to a thread discussing the universal potency of the destro skill line or why each and every class in the game doesnt have a magicka equivalent to WoE and force pulse and take not of the feedback you get.
The you value the strength of healing while dealing damage, generating additional ultimate, and having your overall healing increased (which is perfectly designed in line with magblades life stealing, fearing shadow magick-esque thematics) then you will slot it over the available force pulse, which is designated as a strong tri elemental beam (not in any way whatsoever thematic to sorcs specifically). Resource costs has nothing to do with it.
Yes it was. hence why Strife originally cost like what like 900 something magicka and Siphion attacks resorted 1000 magicka and stamina per light attack. nightblade has always been about resources, saying otherwise means you don't really know the class very well. resources is where the classes strength is, it's where their strength was meant to be. it makes up a big part of their identity it's the basis for how they play just like every other class has their individual strength which is the basis for how they play. and if any other class faced a similar blow to their identity, i would not be in favor of it, it's a bad direction for the game to go in.
the thing is the rotaion is just too simular when you replace strife with force pulse.
magblade: cripple > light attack > force pulse > light attack > assassins will > impale
Sorc: Curse > light attack > force pulse > light attack > frag > mages wrath
that's basically an identical rotation a massive problem for individuality or classes.
the healing from strife is not something that cannot be replaced by another ability. the ultimate generation comes for using a siphoning ability of which strife is not the only ability you can use either. so no, everything about strife can be replaced.exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring and unimaginative game.
Sustain being class identity I don't even...
You "don't even" what?, pay attention?. apparently not.
resources has been the foundation for nightblades since 1.6 when i started playing the game this is not new or something i just made up today. NB's strength being in their resources has been true for a very long time.
A class identity is found within the overal theme of the class, the iconic skills and effects they bring with them. The resource management of a nightblade is bound to various passives, and the sustain from siphoning attacks. Not the cost of your spammable ability.
Even on PTS, nightblades are miles ahead of other classes in terms of sustain.
Your argument is illogical and unreasonable.
At launch, DKs dominated everything in cyrodiil. Now they're weaker than they ever were. Would you say that destroyed their class identity?
Being superior is not class identity. Class identity is defined by the various class skills, passives, and their effects. Damage and cost values are open for balance changes.
the overall theme of the class is low cost abilities, high regen, and resource return. they keep themselves up with HoT's and pressure which is directly tied to their sustain. they are built around their sustain hence why it is the class identity it is the foundation for which the class is built. it's the way it's always been it was just overlooked until recently because no one ever ran out of resources, until Morrowind.
and i don't know much about DK's which is why i don't go into their threads and talk about *** i don't know based on the limited knowledge of the class that i possess or what may appear op from an outside perspective. i leave that to the people who play those classes, who know those classes and who better understands what's best for those classes and how they play. a respect that unfortunately is not shared.
Yes they keep themselves afloat with hots and a steady stream of incoming resources, that is a thematic, and gameplay aspect of the magblade, you are confusing two seperate things here.
Resource managment is a universally binding mechanic at this games combat system's foundation. It is equalized amongst the classes to the best of the developers ability. Saying a class has inheritently, objectively superior sustain due to it being their identity, goes against that foundation entirely. Such a scenario would mandate that said class be mathematically inferior in the damage department, otherwise they would be uncontested in most endgame endeavors.
HOW a class acheives resource sustainably is an indentifier, not that they do it better than anyone else.
Okay do you play a magblade?. i really have to know because you don't seem to see how integral resources are to magblade over every other class. resouces are important to any class yes, but not to the same degree as magblade. to magblade resources are their number 1 defense they can't fall back on burst heals, or shield stacks and innate tankyness. when a magblade stops, they die they are the definition of a fast-paced, glass canon and their resources is what makes that playstyle even possible.
unlike every other class a magblade cannot go on the defensive when they do it's over they're dead. resources are the classes identity because that's their core foundation that dictates their entire playstyle. their ability to not stop is their primary defense and method of survival that super fast paced gameplay is why you play a magblade over sorc.
so if you want to take that aspect away, just give magblade a hardened ward and be done with it.exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring game.
First and foremost, easy sustain / affordable spells was never thier identity. That contrast is not accurate especially when you are placing it against sorc shields or burst heals from a templar (which isnt even a templars identity either but im not going to get into that here). Magblades have always had unique ability in damage /healing synergy (soul tether / soul siphon, refreshing path, strife, sap essense). And that is only one aspect of the class, so trying to compartmentalize clases into strict singular representations is silly.
Magicka dps builds running similar setups does steal some wind out of the sails as far as class themes go, but sorcs can same the same thing (and often have). You want magblade to not be a sorc clone because sorcs have to use force pulse therefore force pulse is automatically a sorc ability, Twisting path vs liquid lightning, Frag vs Will, wrath vs impale etc etc, these are the individualizers, because to different classes make use of WoE and force pulse does not make them clones, amd likewise, if THAT is your argument, take it to a thread discussing the universal potency of the destro skill line or why each and every class in the game doesnt have a magicka equivalent to WoE and force pulse and take not of the feedback you get.
The you value the strength of healing while dealing damage, generating additional ultimate, and having your overall healing increased (which is perfectly designed in line with magblades life stealing, fearing shadow magick-esque thematics) then you will slot it over the available force pulse, which is designated as a strong tri elemental beam (not in any way whatsoever thematic to sorcs specifically). Resource costs has nothing to do with it.
Yes it was. hence why Strife originally cost like what like 900 something magicka and Siphion attacks resorted 1000 magicka and stamina per light attack. nightblade has always been about resources, saying otherwise means you don't really know the class very well. resources is where the classes strength is, it's where their strength was meant to be. it makes up a big part of their identity it's the basis for how they play just like every other class has their individual strength which is the basis for how they play. and if any other class faced a similar blow to their identity, i would not be in favor of it, it's a bad direction for the game to go in.
the thing is the rotaion is just too simular when you replace strife with force pulse.
magblade: cripple > light attack > force pulse > light attack > assassins will > impale
Sorc: Curse > light attack > force pulse > light attack > frag > mages wrath
that's basically an identical rotation a massive problem for individuality or classes.
the healing from strife is not something that cannot be replaced by another ability. the ultimate generation comes for using a siphoning ability of which strife is not the only ability you can use either. so no, everything about strife can be replaced.exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring and unimaginative game.
Sustain being class identity I don't even...
You "don't even" what?, pay attention?. apparently not.
resources has been the foundation for nightblades since 1.6 when i started playing the game this is not new or something i just made up today. NB's strength being in their resources has been true for a very long time.
A class identity is found within the overal theme of the class, the iconic skills and effects they bring with them. The resource management of a nightblade is bound to various passives, and the sustain from siphoning attacks. Not the cost of your spammable ability.
Even on PTS, nightblades are miles ahead of other classes in terms of sustain.
Your argument is illogical and unreasonable.
At launch, DKs dominated everything in cyrodiil. Now they're weaker than they ever were. Would you say that destroyed their class identity?
Being superior is not class identity. Class identity is defined by the various class skills, passives, and their effects. Damage and cost values are open for balance changes.
the overall theme of the class is low cost abilities, high regen, and resource return. they keep themselves up with HoT's and pressure which is directly tied to their sustain. they are built around their sustain hence why it is the class identity it is the foundation for which the class is built. it's the way it's always been it was just overlooked until recently because no one ever ran out of resources, until Morrowind.
and i don't know much about DK's which is why i don't go into their threads and talk about *** i don't know based on the limited knowledge of the class that i possess or what may appear op from an outside perspective. i leave that to the people who play those classes, who know those classes and who better understands what's best for those classes and how they play. a respect that unfortunately is not shared.
Yeah I'm not going to respect the knowledge of someone who blatantly doesn't have any, you're damn right about that.
then i guess we view each other in the same light. now that that's out of the way.
I dont know how to even respond to that... you make 2 inquiries as to whether or not i play magblade which is telling tbh..
Resources have no coorrelation to active defense anymore than on any class as long as active defense costs resources. Your attempt here makes little sense, as what ibhave explained to you goes beyond your viewpoint and effects the greater balance of the game in how the devs approach class balance with combat. Magblades are not exclusivley glass cannons, you have tank and healer nbs as well, which completely renders your entire point irrelevant.
For the last time, objective intentional resource sustain superiority has not ever and is not now something the developers ever condone.
And if you must know i have roughly 8000 hours
Of magblade experience, but more importantly, i am VERY educated of all aspects of all classes and thus am able to look outside of the echoing chamber when seeing chamges like the stride nerf and how it happened, and how it relates to the broader spectrum ofx this game. I dont feel further dialogue on the subject will help you here. I belive there is a disconnect with your perceived idea of what the class should be vs what is actually happening under the hood in this game.
to be clear i don't play anything other than PvP. and the only NB healer in PvP i know quite before argonians where even buffed.
so you want to talk about PvE, yeah i'm not the guy to talk to. there is no challenge in PvE so people can do whatever they want and excel at it so all these changes don't even really matter there.
No actually im talking pvp.
For a good reason.
You don't have to play a NB heal, just look at the abilities and then look at the abilities of a templar.
Burst heal and group support actually matters.
You don't need group support even for the hardest content in the game, but it makes it much easier.
An incredibly ignorant comment0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »
lol... Yeah im definitely done here.
healer NB's aren't that good. i couldn't even tell you the last time i saw a saptank or healer NB. i give them props because they're thinking outside the box, but.exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring game.
First and foremost, easy sustain / affordable spells was never thier identity. That contrast is not accurate especially when you are placing it against sorc shields or burst heals from a templar (which isnt even a templars identity either but im not going to get into that here). Magblades have always had unique ability in damage /healing synergy (soul tether / soul siphon, refreshing path, strife, sap essense). And that is only one aspect of the class, so trying to compartmentalize clases into strict singular representations is silly.
Magicka dps builds running similar setups does steal some wind out of the sails as far as class themes go, but sorcs can same the same thing (and often have). You want magblade to not be a sorc clone because sorcs have to use force pulse therefore force pulse is automatically a sorc ability, Twisting path vs liquid lightning, Frag vs Will, wrath vs impale etc etc, these are the individualizers, because to different classes make use of WoE and force pulse does not make them clones, amd likewise, if THAT is your argument, take it to a thread discussing the universal potency of the destro skill line or why each and every class in the game doesnt have a magicka equivalent to WoE and force pulse and take not of the feedback you get.
The you value the strength of healing while dealing damage, generating additional ultimate, and having your overall healing increased (which is perfectly designed in line with magblades life stealing, fearing shadow magick-esque thematics) then you will slot it over the available force pulse, which is designated as a strong tri elemental beam (not in any way whatsoever thematic to sorcs specifically). Resource costs has nothing to do with it.
Yes it was. hence why Strife originally cost like what like 900 something magicka and Siphion attacks resorted 1000 magicka and stamina per light attack. nightblade has always been about resources, saying otherwise means you don't really know the class very well. resources is where the classes strength is, it's where their strength was meant to be. it makes up a big part of their identity it's the basis for how they play just like every other class has their individual strength which is the basis for how they play. and if any other class faced a similar blow to their identity, i would not be in favor of it, it's a bad direction for the game to go in.
the thing is the rotaion is just too simular when you replace strife with force pulse.
magblade: cripple > light attack > force pulse > light attack > assassins will > impale
Sorc: Curse > light attack > force pulse > light attack > frag > mages wrath
that's basically an identical rotation a massive problem for individuality or classes.
the healing from strife is not something that cannot be replaced by another ability. the ultimate generation comes for using a siphoning ability of which strife is not the only ability you can use either. so no, everything about strife can be replaced.exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring and unimaginative game.
Sustain being class identity I don't even...
You "don't even" what?, pay attention?. apparently not.
resources has been the foundation for nightblades since 1.6 when i started playing the game this is not new or something i just made up today. NB's strength being in their resources has been true for a very long time.
A class identity is found within the overal theme of the class, the iconic skills and effects they bring with them. The resource management of a nightblade is bound to various passives, and the sustain from siphoning attacks. Not the cost of your spammable ability.
Even on PTS, nightblades are miles ahead of other classes in terms of sustain.
Your argument is illogical and unreasonable.
At launch, DKs dominated everything in cyrodiil. Now they're weaker than they ever were. Would you say that destroyed their class identity?
Being superior is not class identity. Class identity is defined by the various class skills, passives, and their effects. Damage and cost values are open for balance changes.
the overall theme of the class is low cost abilities, high regen, and resource return. they keep themselves up with HoT's and pressure which is directly tied to their sustain. they are built around their sustain hence why it is the class identity it is the foundation for which the class is built. it's the way it's always been it was just overlooked until recently because no one ever ran out of resources, until Morrowind.
and i don't know much about DK's which is why i don't go into their threads and talk about *** i don't know based on the limited knowledge of the class that i possess or what may appear op from an outside perspective. i leave that to the people who play those classes, who know those classes and who better understands what's best for those classes and how they play. a respect that unfortunately is not shared.
Yes they keep themselves afloat with hots and a steady stream of incoming resources, that is a thematic, and gameplay aspect of the magblade, you are confusing two seperate things here.
Resource managment is a universally binding mechanic at this games combat system's foundation. It is equalized amongst the classes to the best of the developers ability. Saying a class has inheritently, objectively superior sustain due to it being their identity, goes against that foundation entirely. Such a scenario would mandate that said class be mathematically inferior in the damage department, otherwise they would be uncontested in most endgame endeavors.
HOW a class acheives resource sustainably is an indentifier, not that they do it better than anyone else.
Okay do you play a magblade?. i really have to know because you don't seem to see how integral resources are to magblade over every other class. resouces are important to any class yes, but not to the same degree as magblade. to magblade resources are their number 1 defense they can't fall back on burst heals, or shield stacks and innate tankyness. when a magblade stops, they die they are the definition of a fast-paced, glass canon and their resources is what makes that playstyle even possible.
unlike every other class a magblade cannot go on the defensive when they do it's over they're dead. resources are the classes identity because that's their core foundation that dictates their entire playstyle. their ability to not stop is their primary defense and method of survival that super fast paced gameplay is why you play a magblade over sorc.
so if you want to take that aspect away, just give magblade a hardened ward and be done with it.exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring game.
First and foremost, easy sustain / affordable spells was never thier identity. That contrast is not accurate especially when you are placing it against sorc shields or burst heals from a templar (which isnt even a templars identity either but im not going to get into that here). Magblades have always had unique ability in damage /healing synergy (soul tether / soul siphon, refreshing path, strife, sap essense). And that is only one aspect of the class, so trying to compartmentalize clases into strict singular representations is silly.
Magicka dps builds running similar setups does steal some wind out of the sails as far as class themes go, but sorcs can same the same thing (and often have). You want magblade to not be a sorc clone because sorcs have to use force pulse therefore force pulse is automatically a sorc ability, Twisting path vs liquid lightning, Frag vs Will, wrath vs impale etc etc, these are the individualizers, because to different classes make use of WoE and force pulse does not make them clones, amd likewise, if THAT is your argument, take it to a thread discussing the universal potency of the destro skill line or why each and every class in the game doesnt have a magicka equivalent to WoE and force pulse and take not of the feedback you get.
The you value the strength of healing while dealing damage, generating additional ultimate, and having your overall healing increased (which is perfectly designed in line with magblades life stealing, fearing shadow magick-esque thematics) then you will slot it over the available force pulse, which is designated as a strong tri elemental beam (not in any way whatsoever thematic to sorcs specifically). Resource costs has nothing to do with it.
Yes it was. hence why Strife originally cost like what like 900 something magicka and Siphion attacks resorted 1000 magicka and stamina per light attack. nightblade has always been about resources, saying otherwise means you don't really know the class very well. resources is where the classes strength is, it's where their strength was meant to be. it makes up a big part of their identity it's the basis for how they play just like every other class has their individual strength which is the basis for how they play. and if any other class faced a similar blow to their identity, i would not be in favor of it, it's a bad direction for the game to go in.
the thing is the rotaion is just too simular when you replace strife with force pulse.
magblade: cripple > light attack > force pulse > light attack > assassins will > impale
Sorc: Curse > light attack > force pulse > light attack > frag > mages wrath
that's basically an identical rotation a massive problem for individuality or classes.
the healing from strife is not something that cannot be replaced by another ability. the ultimate generation comes for using a siphoning ability of which strife is not the only ability you can use either. so no, everything about strife can be replaced.exeeter702 wrote: »Strife is getting nerfed to bring it in line with other hard hitting spammables with long range and strong secondary effects, it’s not rocket science.
When all spammables perform within a couple of % of each other(dummy parses don’t count), then there is no reason why they should have significantly different costs. It’s really that simple.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion but I also don’t care, it’s simple logic guys. Now it’s cost is in line with force pulse and imbue while offering a unique class based flavor in a spammable. It’s that simple. If you want unreflective use pulse, if you want guarantee status use imbue, if you want healing use strife
it's a matter of class identity and there actually being a reason to play the class you want to play. i don't *** care about DPS numbers and cost matching up i want my magblade to feel and play like a magblade if i wanted to play a sorcerer i would play a sorcerer.
and what you're saying is basically how all the good MMO's over the years lost mass amounts of players and ultimately died. it's not only an unpopular opinion your expressing but a bad direction for development. when all the classes play the same and all the builds are the same and there is no room for players imagination, games die. simple as that.
No it isnt, and seriously drop the hyperbolic nonsense regarding other mmos loosing player bases over things like this. If you dont give any *** for dps numbers than nothing is stopping you from using strife, you simply dont want to place value its utility or you want to worry less about sustain. Force pulse is not what makes a sorc, and any magic build using the destro skill does not make them a sorc either.
The value in strife and the chouce the developers are asking you to make is between its less damage, more utility for solo or ally helaing, or the raw damage from pulse. This has absolutely nothing to do with class identity.
no because that is the way magblade is supposed to play. they're not supposed to have massive burst heals or stupidly high shield stacks or be that tanky. they're identity as a class is their low cost abilities and good sustain this is a direct blow to the class and how it was originally envisioned and how players play the class.
and yes i've played by removing strife and replacing it with force pulse. it plays like a sorc it's rotation is basically the same as a sorc rotation and that's a problem.
and what i'm saying is: i do not want all DPS classes and rotations to be the same. that is a boring and unimaginative game.
Sustain being class identity I don't even...
You "don't even" what?, pay attention?. apparently not.
resources has been the foundation for nightblades since 1.6 when i started playing the game this is not new or something i just made up today. NB's strength being in their resources has been true for a very long time.
A class identity is found within the overal theme of the class, the iconic skills and effects they bring with them. The resource management of a nightblade is bound to various passives, and the sustain from siphoning attacks. Not the cost of your spammable ability.
Even on PTS, nightblades are miles ahead of other classes in terms of sustain.
Your argument is illogical and unreasonable.
At launch, DKs dominated everything in cyrodiil. Now they're weaker than they ever were. Would you say that destroyed their class identity?
Being superior is not class identity. Class identity is defined by the various class skills, passives, and their effects. Damage and cost values are open for balance changes.
the overall theme of the class is low cost abilities, high regen, and resource return. they keep themselves up with HoT's and pressure which is directly tied to their sustain. they are built around their sustain hence why it is the class identity it is the foundation for which the class is built. it's the way it's always been it was just overlooked until recently because no one ever ran out of resources, until Morrowind.
and i don't know much about DK's which is why i don't go into their threads and talk about *** i don't know based on the limited knowledge of the class that i possess or what may appear op from an outside perspective. i leave that to the people who play those classes, who know those classes and who better understands what's best for those classes and how they play. a respect that unfortunately is not shared.
Yeah I'm not going to respect the knowledge of someone who blatantly doesn't have any, you're damn right about that.
then i guess we view each other in the same light. now that that's out of the way.
I dont know how to even respond to that... you make 2 inquiries as to whether or not i play magblade which is telling tbh..
Resources have no coorrelation to active defense anymore than on any class as long as active defense costs resources. Your attempt here makes little sense, as what ibhave explained to you goes beyond your viewpoint and effects the greater balance of the game in how the devs approach class balance with combat. Magblades are not exclusivley glass cannons, you have tank and healer nbs as well, which completely renders your entire point irrelevant.
For the last time, objective intentional resource sustain superiority has not ever and is not now something the developers ever condone.
And if you must know i have roughly 8000 hours
Of magblade experience, but more importantly, i am VERY educated of all aspects of all classes and thus am able to look outside of the echoing chamber when seeing chamges like the stride nerf and how it happened, and how it relates to the broader spectrum ofx this game. I dont feel further dialogue on the subject will help you here. I belive there is a disconnect with your perceived idea of what the class should be vs what is actually happening under the hood in this game.
to be clear i don't play anything other than PvP. and the only NB healer in PvP i know quite before argonians where even buffed.
so you want to talk about PvE, yeah i'm not the guy to talk to. there is no challenge in PvE so people can do whatever they want and excel at it so all these changes don't even really matter there.
No actually im talking pvp.
not a spec i play nor do i know anyone who plays or wants to play an NB healer so i'll admit i'm in the dark on that one. they did give some good buffs to the healing morph of tether and offering but does that really put them above or on par with templars and wardens?.
but really the reason i'm so triggered about strife change is because for this change i've been running Force pulse with Drain health poisons. a pseudo Strife on a pseudo sorc. and it's just really pissing me off.
and if it wasn't pissing me off so much it would actually be quite funny. I mean it plays like a NB trying to be a Sorc who's trying to be a NB. like i don't even know wtf i'm playing anymore XD
Getting into the finer points of how strong NB healers are in pvp is not something im going to indulge in this thread. They are strong and educated players know this. As a career NB, whom mainly heals all content, i stand to get hit harder than anyone on the strife nerf, and i still understand the logic behind it.0