These constant uptraders are really getting on my nerves

kargen27 · May 2018

Bajatar wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

And this is why we 100% don't want a global auction house...

That's exactly why we DO need a global auction house.

The way it is now most of the market is inaccessible to normal players. They can't participate because they don't have access to one of the few good trading spots or no time to sit through dozens of loading screens and deal with the lackluster trader interface.

Scalpers on the other hand know about and use tons of 3rd party tools that give them such a huge advantage that it's trivial to fleece those who don't. Plus, there's also the issue of a few people monopolizing the best trader spots.

It's all about visibility and accessibility. Both of which are terrible for normal players the way it is now. An auction house would level the playing field.

So you think it will be harder for these traders to keep an eye on one location that has everything than it is for them to have to keep an eye on close to 200? An auction house would allow a couple of dedicated players to monopolize any rare item they wish. An auction house would also cause common items to sit just barely above vendor price. Visit the forums of an MMO that has a global one stop marketplace and look at all the complaints about players driving up prices on rare items.

Cryptical · May 2018

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

you are still conflating gah and tg.

i was talking specifically what can, and has, happened with gah in other games.

I’m responding to your claim that a central access point would allow people to take control of the market. A central access point is in both a general auction house and a general trader. I’m demonstrating that in either case, that’s not a plausible outcome in eso. I don’t have to quibble over which failure of a bogeyman you are scared of, because both of them are failures.

What’s your issue with spelling words out? I’m on a phone and am putting in the work to communicate effectively and fully. I catch most bad autocorrects, not all of them. So what’s your excuse for using gah and tg?

Cryptical · May 2018

kargen27 wrote: »

Bajatar wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

And this is why we 100% don't want a global auction house...

That's exactly why we DO need a global auction house.

The way it is now most of the market is inaccessible to normal players. They can't participate because they don't have access to one of the few good trading spots or no time to sit through dozens of loading screens and deal with the lackluster trader interface.

Scalpers on the other hand know about and use tons of 3rd party tools that give them such a huge advantage that it's trivial to fleece those who don't. Plus, there's also the issue of a few people monopolizing the best trader spots.

It's all about visibility and accessibility. Both of which are terrible for normal players the way it is now. An auction house would level the playing field.

So you think it will be harder for these traders to keep an eye on one location that has everything than it is for them to have to keep an eye on close to 200? An auction house would allow a couple of dedicated players to monopolize any rare item they wish. An auction house would also cause common items to sit just barely above vendor price. Visit the forums of an MMO that has a global one stop marketplace and look at all the complaints about players driving up prices on rare items.

The major flaw in this argument is that while the locations to watch would go from 200 to 1, the number of sellers would multiply, and go from an upper estimation of 100,000 tops to 2,500,000

And the motif event we just had is a half decent example that if the entire frigging playerbase suddenly starts participating in selling the stuff they pick up, there is no person or group of people that will be able to keep prices inflated.

Look at the steep drop from buoyant chapters. Look at the drops of 30%, 50%, 70% in some cases. The very rich 5% of players did not want to see the bottom drop out of their income like that, but faced with being outnumbered by the 95% of the rest of the playerbase those 5% couldn’t do anything to halt the price crash.

But the people who keep waving the bogeyman of a market manipulator are doing what they can to keep themselves as the 5% with access to a guild trader.

It’s the public access that is key. If the number of people listing things goes to 2 million then no consortium of rich players will be able to keep prices inflated. Because new mats will keep getting listed, and old mats will sell less and less due to being priced higher.

NoTimeToWait · May 2018

As a person, who sometimes gets money from reselling items... I would say that a lot of posts in this thread are quite farfetched. But yes, there are players including myself that find trading at least as interesting as other aspects of the game.

ecru wrote: »

They use a script that scans the TTC website for specific things at specific prices. If you can code, something like this is very easy to make. If you have some spare cash, I'm sure you could also hire someone to make a script like this for you for a small fee.

Yes, some of us do have scripts that parse TTC (like the one I have written myself), but really, the results of these scripts are only a third or a fourth option. Because most good value items are sold within minutes even before they get to TTC. So there is no significant advantage to be found there.

It is quite profitable to resell items bought from some forgotten traders with discount. So, I would say, a lot of smaller trader guilds profit from resellers because they sell themselves much faster.
Plus, any decent reseller won't resell at prices much higher than the current median. Usually we fluctuate around the value that seems to be at the sweet spot where other players agree to buy it. Of course, this knowledge comes from experience, and therefore it is quite stupid to resell something you haven't got a clue about.

There are multiple techniques how to trick MM and TTC, so sometimes outrageous prices you see are result of implementing such techniques. Unfortunately, this is the result of playerbase that relies heavily on addons. You should expect that there will always be somebody who exploits a system one way or another.
Of course, these "exploits" come with a great risk. You might spend millions in an effort to adjust MM or TTC to no avail, losing gold. This is what we, traders, consistently are fighting against: mounting risks. Of course, there are a lot of quite safe ways to trade, but well, if you chose to be a merchant you should at least make it interesting.

And an interesting part about trading is how succesfully you can apply the knowledge you have. That's it.

TLDR There are no great secrets, or tools, or exploits that give significant advantage to the trader. Most of the best tools are actually available to the common playerbase via addons. I would say, it is only about knowledge, luck, decisiveness and experience. Being faster than others, making risky decisions based on your knowledge what makes you a good trader, not some petty tools or exploits.
Most of good trading opportunities that netted me good amounts of gold came from actually exploring the game, different dungeons, reading other players' opinions on the forum and looking for things that players will need soon or for places to farm these items.

P.s. Trading is quite similar to PVP. Sometimes you hate the person that PKed you or caught you off guard. Sometimes you admire an opponent that overwhelmed you with his skill being a result of many hours of practice. Sometimes you hate those who only play meta and nothing else, exploiting momentary advantages given by recent patch. And sometimes you think how clever are some guys who found certain build or skill rotation... But in the end, every kind of player makes the game more interesting for you, even if it happens to be frustrating sometimes

Asardes · May 2018

Some posters tend to exaggerate addon problems. I only have MM installed and I had exactly one issue in ~2 years wuth very old and irrelevant data becoming corrupted and slowing down my character loading. It was solved straight away by simply pushing a button to delete and refresh it. As for outlier prices it has a nice feature that makes it ignore it. And I'm only sampling prices from 2 guilds currently, but those have 70-100M in sales per week each so the data is pretty reliable.

I reiterate my position that you have to be really dumb to play PC, not have that installed and then come and complaing about the big bad speculator that scamed you or blew off the excellent deal you are about to make. Another addon I use is Awesome Guild Store that lets me filter stuff really nicely, inluding compare to MM prices. I don't even have TTC installed since I'm not into flipping, but I do use the website occassionally to search for more uncommon items like various overland set pieces. I would actually include AGS in the base UI since the vanilla one is horrid. I feel for console players and I understand why so many have been coming to PC lately but as I said the addons are a double edge sword that also cuts into the speculators.

Syncronaut · May 2018

No love. Not a single fliper ever buys those

DuskMarine · May 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

This is the direct answer to those pushing for a global auction house: now you have it, enjoy it!

There exist an addon that effectively allows to short circuit the guild traders mechanism.

This lets people see hundreds of guild traders in 10 seconds and to know where to immediately go and relist items at inflated price.

You demanded the global auction house. You got it. Or the equivalent of it.

And now you whine because you found out it was not the panacea, right?

the thing is a GAH will never work in this game theyve never worked in any game correctly. its best just join a trade guild and stop beating this poor already deader than dead horse.

Azuramoonstar · May 2018

Whiphid wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

i assume making gold is becoming the new game for them - but i dont understand what the end goal is... not playing the game, never using the gold and just hoarding it...and then stop playing the game and just having huge amount of gold...for nothing... i don't get it

Selling the gold probably, for real world $€£

thats rmt, and nearly if not all MMO have that against the ToS.

Jayman1000 · May 2018

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

As a person, who sometimes gets money from reselling items... I would say that a lot of posts in this thread are quite farfetched. But yes, there are players including myself that find trading at least as interesting as other aspects of the game.

ecru wrote: »

They use a script that scans the TTC website for specific things at specific prices. If you can code, something like this is very easy to make. If you have some spare cash, I'm sure you could also hire someone to make a script like this for you for a small fee.

Yes, some of us do have scripts that parse TTC (like the one I have written myself), but really, the results of these scripts are only a third or a fourth option. Because most good value items are sold within minutes even before they get to TTC. So there is no significant advantage to be found there.

It is quite profitable to resell items bought from some forgotten traders with discount. So, I would say, a lot of smaller trader guilds profit from resellers because they sell themselves much faster.
Plus, any decent reseller won't resell at prices much higher than the current median. Usually we fluctuate around the value that seems to be at the sweet spot where other players agree to buy it. Of course, this knowledge comes from experience, and therefore it is quite stupid to resell something you haven't got a clue about.

There are multiple techniques how to trick MM and TTC, so sometimes outrageous prices you see are result of implementing such techniques. Unfortunately, this is the result of playerbase that relies heavily on addons. You should expect that there will always be somebody who exploits a system one way or another.
Of course, these "exploits" come with a great risk. You might spend millions in an effort to adjust MM or TTC to no avail, losing gold. This is what we, traders, consistently are fighting against: mounting risks. Of course, there are a lot of quite safe ways to trade, but well, if you chose to be a merchant you should at least make it interesting.

And an interesting part about trading is how succesfully you can apply the knowledge you have. That's it.

TLDR There are no great secrets, or tools, or exploits that give significant advantage to the trader. Most of the best tools are actually available to the common playerbase via addons. I would say, it is only about knowledge, luck, decisiveness and experience. Being faster than others, making risky decisions based on your knowledge what makes you a good trader, not some petty tools or exploits.
Most of good trading opportunities that netted me good amounts of gold came from actually exploring the game, different dungeons, reading other players' opinions on the forum and looking for things that players will need soon or for places to farm these items.

P.s. Trading is quite similar to PVP. Sometimes you hate the person that PKed you or caught you off guard. Sometimes you admire an opponent that overwhelmed you with his skill being a result of many hours of practice. Sometimes you hate those who only play meta and nothing else, exploiting momentary advantages given by recent patch. And sometimes you think how clever are some guys who found certain build or skill rotation... But in the end, every kind of player makes the game more interesting for you, even if it happens to be frustrating sometimes

Why did you get no insightful yet on this post?? it's very insightful and spot on, thanks! People get mad at resellers because of prejudice and a lack of knowledge about what is really going on.

Jayman1000 · May 2018

Asardes wrote: »

Some posters tend to exaggerate addon problems. I only have MM installed and I had exactly one issue in ~2 years wuth very old and irrelevant data becoming corrupted and slowing down my character loading. It was solved straight away by simply pushing a button to delete and refresh it. As for outlier prices it has a nice feature that makes it ignore it. And I'm only sampling prices from 2 guilds currently, but those have 70-100M in sales per week each so the data is pretty reliable.

I reiterate my position that you have to be really dumb to play PC, not have that installed and then come and complaing about the big bad speculator that scamed you or blew off the excellent deal you are about to make. Another addon I use is Awesome Guild Store that lets me filter stuff really nicely, inluding compare to MM prices. I don't even have TTC installed since I'm not into flipping, but I do use the website occassionally to search for more uncommon items like various overland set pieces. I would actually include AGS in the base UI since the vanilla one is horrid. I feel for console players and I understand why so many have been coming to PC lately but as I said the addons are a double edge sword that also cuts into the speculators.

Dude, you precisely described an issue I had! It also had the effect of not remembering the last price of items, but was stuck on some old outdated price. Deleting the data fixed it, thanks!

smacx250 · May 2018

At one point in the game I did a bit of "flipping" items - though I wouldn't call it that. What I really did was charge for my time searching all the traders, looking for items of value that were priced low enough that I could purchase them to offer for sale at a reasonable profit at my guild's super-conveient but expensive to maintain trader. My time in searching, and the high overhead of my guild's trader necessitated an increase in the item's price - and one that customers were nearly always willing to pay for the convince of one-stop shopping. I always credited the game in that it provided a context for interesting services like this.

This was all before TTC. I hoofed it all over, and it was interesting for a while. I got to know the different traders, and what kind of stuff they had, and if they typically priced things high or low - or if there were particular sellers that bargain priced things. There were always outliers, but some traders were definitely better than others. Then re-finding them when they moved. Also, the pricing was kind of interesting. It costs 9% to sell something at a trader, so you need to find stuff you believe you can sell at at least 9%+ markup. Sometimes data for things is weak (typical with the most expensive items), or demand/availability changes, and you end up selling at a loss.

Compared to a global AH: Yeah, I had plenty of money and my script bought it first so it's mine and I bumped the price and re-listed in the exact same "place". Automatically.

wenchmore420b14_ESO · May 2018

Cryptical wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

And this is why we 100% don't want a global auction house...

You fail to consider how every bogeyman wealthy player is still far outweighed by the combined might of the general public.

Look at how the combined might of the general public hammered the tar out of even the most expensive motifs due to their ability to farm at over 95 times as much as all the rich players combined.

You haven’t realized that the avalanche of motifs we saw is a mini version of the free market that would be seen across all sectors of the economy if a publicly available trader was open to the 95% of the people that don’t have a trader right now.

The rich moneybags players might try to buy the low priced items as they entered the market, but they don’t have the bag space or the listing slots to buy 100 newly listed tempers and list 30, while also buying 100 newly listed wax that has to wait for a list slot to open, and rosin, and solvent, and furniture, and Columbine, and farmed gear, and so on.

Every wealthy player would be outnumbered 95 to 1 in bag space, available farming time, and trader listing slots.

You may feel powerful and full of fire when you look at your 100 mill in the bank, but in a public trader you have 30 slots and your noob peasant farming competition is using 2850 slots to undercut you.

You. Would. Fall. Splat.

have you not heard of the craft bag?

Of course I have.

You keep hammering on the aspect of being able to buy whatever is listed at one UI window. But that’s only half of the scene. That’s items moving into your inventory.

What you keep failing to explain is how you are going to move items OUT of your inventory at the same speed as they flow in.

Currently 95% of the playerbase cannot be in a trading guild because there is a member cap. Those people are still hitting the random crafting node, still getting the purple rings from the dolmen, still getting the motif from the random crate or urn.

The half of the scene you conveniently neglect is the power of those 95% have to flood what you want to flip. The motif event is a pale example of the whole playerbase having something to sell.

You may try to buy up and flip, but purely in terms of logistics you will be trying to buy up the lowballed stuff from 95 people’s listings and move it out through your 1 person listings. You get 30 listings. The 95 people you are trying to use as sources have 2850 listings.

You cannot keep up. You physically cannot read through and consider 2850 listed items and move the stuff out through your 30 listings.

What you describe with your ‘buy it all and resell as I feel’ strategy is not grounded in anything other than your fantasyland mind. Because you cannot condense 2850 item listings flowing into your inventory and push it out of a 30 item listing output.

If you tried, you would end up with a lot in your craft bag, but the negative effect on your cash flow would leave you with zero liquid gold, at which time you would watch all those newly listed items and tempers and motifs scroll by to be bought by others.

Like I said.

You. Would. Fall. Splat.

You seem to forget about the people with multiple accounts. I have one guildie with 6 accounts with 10 toons on each.
Thats a LOT of bag and inventory space.

But to the thread...
No to AH!!!

Allypage · May 2018

I just want gold for houses and swag lol

Lysette · May 2018

Raraaku wrote: »

While admittedly inconvenient, I have found that shopping at guild stores that are not located in one of the main hubs (Daggerfall/Stonefalls/Vulkhel Guard/Wayrest/Elden Root/Mournhold/etc.) is the best route to go. I usually hop around all over Tamriel/Coldharbor looking for the best deal; it takes longer than usual but I have saved sooooo much gold by doing this. I have also found (in my experience) that uptraders tend to not hit these areas as they are too out of the way and admittedly, the hub locations are great due to their proximity to crafting stations and multiple stores in one area.

But I will say that it is ridiculous, particularly when someone is selling a mat for 10k+ but if you go to a roadside guild trader, you can probably find the same material for 1-2k.

Yeah that is what I do as well. Guild traders out in the wild or in minor trading posts offer most of the time decently priced mats. Same goes for furniture items, motif pages, crafting diagrams and so on. And it is sometimes not even a huge effort to get there, because there are convenient wayshrines nearby. It is just that people rather tend to buy in crafting hubs instead.

Syncronaut · May 2018

Allypage wrote: »

I just want gold for houses and swag lol

Housing is very expensive yes. 25.000g 75.000g and so on.

Varana · May 2018

Cryptical wrote: »

And the motif event we just had is a half decent example that if the entire frigging playerbase suddenly starts participating in selling the stuff they pick up, there is no person or group of people that will be able to keep prices inflated.

Look at the steep drop from buoyant chapters. Look at the drops of 30%, 50%, 70% in some cases. The very rich 5% of players did not want to see the bottom drop out of their income like that, but faced with being outnumbered by the 95% of the rest of the playerbase those 5% couldn’t do anything to halt the price crash.

The motif event we just had is a decent example of supply-and-demand pricing.
Suddenly, many motifs that usually are very rare dropped in extraordinate amounts, flooding the market. Therefore, prices went down.
Now, supply is drying up again. It's not that suddenly, many players decided to take part in selling. It's that suddenly, rare things were not rare anymore, for some time.
A global auction house would not change that. There wouldn't suddenly drop many more BA motifs - the only reason why prices went down.

Huyen · May 2018

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Honestly the rich cats that constantly empty the market of certain goods and then upsell it are really annoying...i understand that you want to make money - but how much more do you need if you already have millions? Besides, what i can't understand - new items appearing - if you cant get them withint 10 minutes they are gone and re-appear at 3x the price....

Happend for example yesterday - item was gone 16 minutes after it appeared on the GS when i tried to buy it and appeared an hour later at 3times the price....

How are these people even so fast that they can constantly be everywhere and buy every item within minutes?? Is that their whole game, buying and selling? For what if you dont use the money to actually play the game?

Just making money for money sake is completly pointless.

You just described how real world trading works really. Its no suprise same thing is happening in every MMO out there.

NupidStoob · May 2018

There are so many wrong assumptions in this thread it's ridiculous. No need for fancy scripts or anything to resell all you need is have awesome guildstore sort by newest listings, let MM hide red listings (or white and green) and run from guildstore to guildstore. It's way quicker than looking up stuff on another website just to run to a store for an item that is most likely being sold already.

I've been multiple times at guildtraders where I was buying something the exact moment the other person was listing and just had to refresh the search to see if they kept selling stuff. With so many people selling things this happens fairly often.

Trading doesn't really bring enough money to sell gold and people who already try that might as well just use bots as that is way more lucrative. A couple 100k a week of actual profit requires quite a lot of time checking stores and listing things or running through zones and spamming WTB messages.

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Just making money for money sake is completly pointless.

Just playing for the sake of playing is completely pointless. It's a game and you do what you have fun with. Different people enjoy different things. Next time you search for something on TTC don't look for the cheapest item, but add a maxamount you are willing to pay for the item in the advanced search and then search the results by newest listing. You will way more likely find the item you want at a price you are okay with.

jedtb16_ESO · May 2018

Cryptical wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

you are still conflating gah and tg.

i was talking specifically what can, and has, happened with gah in other games.

I’m responding to your claim that a central access point would allow people to take control of the market. A central access point is in both a general auction house and a general trader. I’m demonstrating that in either case, that’s not a plausible outcome in eso. I don’t have to quibble over which failure of a bogeyman you are scared of, because both of them are failures.

What’s your issue with spelling words out? I’m on a phone and am putting in the work to communicate effectively and fully. I catch most bad autocorrects, not all of them. So what’s your excuse for using gah and tg?

have you not heard of abbreviations? well, so it goes.

my problem with your argument is that you seem to be completely unaware of what has happened with gah in other games with similar populations to eso.

cornering the market for a specific item with the current system is, to all intents and purposes, impossible for an individual. with gah it's a faceroll. all you need are sufficient funds and a plan.

jedtb16_ESO · May 2018

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

And this is why we 100% don't want a global auction house...

You fail to consider how every bogeyman wealthy player is still far outweighed by the combined might of the general public.

Look at how the combined might of the general public hammered the tar out of even the most expensive motifs due to their ability to farm at over 95 times as much as all the rich players combined.

You haven’t realized that the avalanche of motifs we saw is a mini version of the free market that would be seen across all sectors of the economy if a publicly available trader was open to the 95% of the people that don’t have a trader right now.

The rich moneybags players might try to buy the low priced items as they entered the market, but they don’t have the bag space or the listing slots to buy 100 newly listed tempers and list 30, while also buying 100 newly listed wax that has to wait for a list slot to open, and rosin, and solvent, and furniture, and Columbine, and farmed gear, and so on.

Every wealthy player would be outnumbered 95 to 1 in bag space, available farming time, and trader listing slots.

You may feel powerful and full of fire when you look at your 100 mill in the bank, but in a public trader you have 30 slots and your noob peasant farming competition is using 2850 slots to undercut you.

You. Would. Fall. Splat.

have you not heard of the craft bag?

Of course I have.

You keep hammering on the aspect of being able to buy whatever is listed at one UI window. But that’s only half of the scene. That’s items moving into your inventory.

What you keep failing to explain is how you are going to move items OUT of your inventory at the same speed as they flow in.

Currently 95% of the playerbase cannot be in a trading guild because there is a member cap. Those people are still hitting the random crafting node, still getting the purple rings from the dolmen, still getting the motif from the random crate or urn.

The half of the scene you conveniently neglect is the power of those 95% have to flood what you want to flip. The motif event is a pale example of the whole playerbase having something to sell.

You may try to buy up and flip, but purely in terms of logistics you will be trying to buy up the lowballed stuff from 95 people’s listings and move it out through your 1 person listings. You get 30 listings. The 95 people you are trying to use as sources have 2850 listings.

You cannot keep up. You physically cannot read through and consider 2850 listed items and move the stuff out through your 30 listings.

What you describe with your ‘buy it all and resell as I feel’ strategy is not grounded in anything other than your fantasyland mind. Because you cannot condense 2850 item listings flowing into your inventory and push it out of a 30 item listing output.

If you tried, you would end up with a lot in your craft bag, but the negative effect on your cash flow would leave you with zero liquid gold, at which time you would watch all those newly listed items and tempers and motifs scroll by to be bought by others.

Like I said.

You. Would. Fall. Splat.

You seem to forget about the people with multiple accounts. I have one guildie with 6 accounts with 10 toons on each.
Thats a LOT of bag and inventory space.

But to the thread...
No to AH!!!

the other thing about it is that if you are trading materials and tempers and have eso+ inventory space is not an issue.

Vahrokh · May 2018

Cryptical wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

And this is why we 100% don't want a global auction house...

You fail to consider how every bogeyman wealthy player is still far outweighed by the combined might of the general public.

Look at how the combined might of the general public hammered the tar out of even the most expensive motifs due to their ability to farm at over 95 times as much as all the rich players combined.

You haven’t realized that the avalanche of motifs we saw is a mini version of the free market that would be seen across all sectors of the economy if a publicly available trader was open to the 95% of the people that don’t have a trader right now.

The rich moneybags players might try to buy the low priced items as they entered the market, but they don’t have the bag space or the listing slots to buy 100 newly listed tempers and list 30, while also buying 100 newly listed wax that has to wait for a list slot to open, and rosin, and solvent, and furniture, and Columbine, and farmed gear, and so on.

Every wealthy player would be outnumbered 95 to 1 in bag space, available farming time, and trader listing slots.

You may feel powerful and full of fire when you look at your 100 mill in the bank, but in a public trader you have 30 slots and your noob peasant farming competition is using 2850 slots to undercut you.

You. Would. Fall. Splat.

Cryptical wrote: »

The major flaw in this argument is that while the locations to watch would go from 200 to 1, the number of sellers would multiply, and go from an upper estimation of 100,000 tops to 2,500,000

And the motif event we just had is a half decent example that if the entire frigging playerbase suddenly starts participating in selling the stuff they pick up, there is no person or group of people that will be able to keep prices inflated.

Look at the steep drop from buoyant chapters. Look at the drops of 30%, 50%, 70% in some cases. The very rich 5% of players did not want to see the bottom drop out of their income like that, but faced with being outnumbered by the 95% of the rest of the playerbase those 5% couldn’t do anything to halt the price crash.

You seem to think rich traders are dumb-ish. No, we are rich becase use know how the markets work, including when prices tank hard.

A trader knows when a patch is coming, knows which items are going to become "BiS" and / or hugely popular. We know what happens to certain consummables starting 2 weeks before a patch / expansion / holiday.
He / she also knows game mechanics and markets supply-demand mechanics. I am not going to disclose "tactics" here, but we (traders) ALL knew what would happen with motifs and we ALL know what SHALL happen to motifs in a couple of months.

There are several tecniques to even deal with "hanging" items that you mistakenly priced too high. That's all part of the "being a trader" package.

Last but not least, liquid markets are traders best friends, so your "number of sellers would multiply, and go from an upper estimation of 100,000 tops to 2,500,000" is totally going to give us a massive advantage!

I still fondly recall dominating GW2 markets just because of their massive liquidity!

Just accept it: you stand no chance, because you put yourself against people who do something as a profession. It's like PvP: if you have barely a clue about how to enter Cyrodiil you won't defeat any experienced players you'll meet inside.
Actually, many call this "markets PvP", because markets are just that: PvP. Both in game and in real life.

OOJIMMY · May 2018

Vilestride wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

i assume making gold is becoming the new game for them - but i dont understand what the end goal is... not playing the game, never using the gold and just hoarding it...and then stop playing the game and just having huge amount of gold...for nothing... i don't get it

Lol. You could say the same thing about reality no? And yet we do it.

Well in real life you can stretch our money for decades, in eso not so much. Don't get me wrong if that's how they want to play more power to them, I just don't see the joy in it myself

KingMagaw · May 2018

ZOS are failing at playing the game of making something valued and then devaluing it in a feeble attempt to cater for new players to catch up to replace the old ones leaving.

There is no real catch up mechanic in ESO. CP10 looking at a CP 1100 is off putting, so ZOS throw out double exp events that boost the new players to level CP cap quicker and this devalues the exp earned at normal rate of the other players (Depending how you use the exp buff/ Skyreach/normal playing)

Many motifs in the game since launch. New player is at a loss for all these motifs so these anniversary boxes come out and spam the game with motifs and greatly devalue them.

I am at a loss of why i farmed dungeon HM's for my motifs when i could simply wait and do the most basic quest and get the same reward.

Tabbycat · May 2018

They can flip and upsell but unless they have multiple accounts they are limited to 30 items per guild they are in that has a trader. So at the most they can flip and resell 150 items at one time. Plus, if they sell them for insane prices, those flipped items are going to sit until someone is desperate enough to buy the flipped item.

Asardes · May 2018

TBH it may be just better to find very underpriced items and sell them at market price fast, than trying to basically scam someone with them listed at 10x the normal price. For example I've seen Mercenary motifs listed for 10-15K a page, whilst the normal price is 500-1K gold. IDK what those players are trying to do. Maybe they expect some other players are dumb enough to just click on the first thing they see? I normally try to sell lots of cheap items fast, and get rid of them from my inventory. Basically just surplus created various other activities. For example I've managed to sell almost 150 items in a single week in a single guild - set items, cheap recipes & blueprints - by simply discounting them by 5-10% from MM price. Granted that they were low price ~2K on average, but you can apply the same tactic with relatively more expensive things and get a nice profit.

Tabbycat · May 2018

If I post something cheap, I'm doing it intentionally to sell it fast. I don't care if someone wants to buy it and flip it to a higher price because I want the gold from selling it quickly as opposed to waiting until the right person comes along to buy at the higher market price. Or I'm trying to clear out my excess inventory of elebenty billion recipes and blueprints.