ZOS, an explanation or insight would be appreciated.

huntgod_ESO · May 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Zypheran wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Zypheran wrote: »

Istoppucks wrote: »

Last week the tears were about FREE crates this week the discount isnt enough. You cant make this stuff up. Some people will never be happy.

This is a price increase. That attracts negative comment

21,000 crowns:
Regular price: $180
Price today: $144

14,000 crowns:
Regular price: $150
Price today: $104

Looks like a discount to me.

*All prices in CAD since that's my currency.

To be fair, you're around here long enough to appreciate that this is a significant change to the normal discount structure. People stock up on crowns during sales so a decrease in the discount is effectively a price increase.

But a company isn't obligated to maintain the same discount structure forever. If they feel they can make more money by doing a 20% discount, then that's their decision.

If it turns out they made less than they thought, of course they'll go back to bigger discounts. They might still be planning to do a bigger discount down the line anyway and are just doing this to try and maximize sales of the upcoming houses and mounts.

Actually this sale pretty much guarantees there will not be another for a minimum of maybe 3-4 months. The backlash if they did a 30-50% scaling sale like last time within 90 or so days of this 20% would be significant.

notimetocare · May 2018

Zypheran wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

ZOS is a business. Not sure what explanation you need beyond that.

Do you really expect them to come on here and say that they reduced the discount amount compared to previous sales, because they believe it will be more profitable in the long run for them?

Would it make you feel better if they did?

I was a bit disappointed that the crown discount was not what I was expecting. Then I got over it. Maybe next one will be better, maybe not.

It's one thing to express dissatisfaction with the sale and it not meeting your expectations. I'm not sure what the point of this thread is.

Actually I do expect an explanation beyond "We are a business". If any other service to which I subscribe made such a substantial change to their pricing structure, I would usually think it would be accompanied by a statement.
Simple example - earlier this year my ISP upped their prices by 6%. The month before it took effect, they contacted their customers to explain why they were increasing their prices.
Whatever way you look at it, changing the traditional sale structure from 40% discount down to 20% constitutes a significant increase in cost to a large segment of players

Not even close to the same... In part because crown sales are nowhere in the tos like raising the rates on an ISP contract.

Second, they are under no obligation to ever discount crowns. Tough luck kid, but its fact

Third, crown sales have varied before. Such as scaling discount based on crown pack size.

Crown sales come when they dont feel they are meeting a needed quota. And the sale discount is most likely determined by how far behind that number is. Basic business even a teen should be able to understand. Why they need to explain to you, or anyone else, is beyond stupid

Yzalirk · May 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Zypheran wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

I guess it depends on how frequent they are.

Would people prefer 50% off crowns twice a year or 20% off crowns for a limited time every month?

And if that is to be the case then a simple forthcoming statement from ZOS would alleviate customer negative reaction to a perceived negative impact on cost/value.
Whether what they do is right/wrong, justified or not, I believe they could at least offer us a comment on this decision

There is a reason why they don't announce crown sales, and it's not hard to figure out:

They want as many people as possible to buy them at full price.

No company is transparent about their pricing strategy. Otherwise, it wouldn't be much of a strategy.

But there was an indication of a Crown sale when I logged in earlier...

Cously · May 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

Hey this works here too!

Awesome!

ZOS is trying to lose less money on sales, it's their move to tame us to be happy at 20%. As consumers, now is our move to show them that's not enough, by not buying. Free market as it should be.

Rohamad_Ali · May 2018

It's very understandable that you would like to understand why the sale is not as big as usual . As others say however , it is unlikely they will share any reasoning . The best way to handle the situation is with tight purse strings as others are doing if you find the sale lacking any real bargain . Eventually quarterly profit margins will be read and then someone high up may ask why the sale was not profitable as others . Vote with your wallet . On the other hand if money is no object in gaming , enjoy the sale .

Zypheran · May 2018

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

It's very understandable that you would like to understand why the sale is not as big as usual . As others say however , it is unlikely they will share any reasoning . The best way to handle the situation is with tight purse strings as others are doing if you find the sale lacking any real bargain . Eventually quarterly profit margins will be read and then someone high up may ask why the sale was not profitable as others . Vote with your wallet . On the other hand if money is no object in gaming , enjoy the sale .

In truth I know I won't get an answer to my post. I understand corporate and commercial strategies well. And I agree with you about voting with your wallet. I also felt though, that a polite, open letter suggesting (Not demanding) for a comment, would serve as a constructive way to point out to ZOS that this further change in cost/value structure won't be seen in a positive light by many.
I just didn't expect the vehemence with which people would shout me down for even suggesting to ask ZOS to comment on this latest price strategy.

MLGProPlayer · May 2018

Yzalirk wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Zypheran wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

I guess it depends on how frequent they are.

Would people prefer 50% off crowns twice a year or 20% off crowns for a limited time every month?

And if that is to be the case then a simple forthcoming statement from ZOS would alleviate customer negative reaction to a perceived negative impact on cost/value.
Whether what they do is right/wrong, justified or not, I believe they could at least offer us a comment on this decision

There is a reason why they don't announce crown sales, and it's not hard to figure out:

They want as many people as possible to buy them at full price.

No company is transparent about their pricing strategy. Otherwise, it wouldn't be much of a strategy.

But there was an indication of a Crown sale when I logged in earlier...

I meant they don't announce the sales ahead of time. Otherwise, people would just hold out on buying them now and wait for the sale.

Lysette · May 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

My very unofficial tinfoil hat explanation: ZOS sees the large number of threads on the forums begging for a crown sale and some marketing exec says, "Hey, guys, they sound pretty desperate for a crown sale. Do you think they are desperate enough for a 20% sale?"

My less tinfoil-hat suspicion is that with Morrowind coming out as a DLC for crowns, they don't want people stocking up in advance and getting Morrowind for effectively half off.

Does not really make sense, because you can get Morrowind for free if you buy summerset now, it's in the pre-purchase package.

DHale · May 2018

I agree if suckers pay for crowns at 20 percent off 50 percent will never be seen again. I will wait until 50 or won’t get them again.

wenchmore420b14_ESO · May 2018

It doesn't matter to me one way or another. I won't be buying any. Why?
Cause ZoS is running it o the 3 days in between my paychecks!!
Some of us get paid Bi-Weekly and live check to check.
And ZoS must be Psychic as they ALWAYS run specials and limited items on my off week! Lol...

Gnortranermara · May 2018

I always buy $100 or more of crowns during the sales. Not this time. I don't know if they think they'll make more money in total by doing it this way, but speaking for myself they're losing my money.

AlienatedGoat · May 2018

All I know is, if crowns can't be bought for 50% off anymore, the prices on the Store need to come down by 50%.

They tried to justify their stupidly high prices on the store by pointing to sales. Clearly, if they only offer 20%, that won't be the case anymore.

I love this game, but the monetization practices that ZOS uses to support it are ***.

MattT1988 · May 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Yzalirk wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Zypheran wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

I guess it depends on how frequent they are.

Would people prefer 50% off crowns twice a year or 20% off crowns for a limited time every month?

And if that is to be the case then a simple forthcoming statement from ZOS would alleviate customer negative reaction to a perceived negative impact on cost/value.
Whether what they do is right/wrong, justified or not, I believe they could at least offer us a comment on this decision

There is a reason why they don't announce crown sales, and it's not hard to figure out:

They want as many people as possible to buy them at full price.

No company is transparent about their pricing strategy. Otherwise, it wouldn't be much of a strategy.

But there was an indication of a Crown sale when I logged in earlier...

I meant they don't announce the sales ahead of time. Otherwise, people would just hold out on buying them now and wait for the sale.

A lot of people do that anyway.

Slick_007 · May 2018

Zypheran wrote: »

And if that is to be the case then a simple forthcoming statement from ZOS would alleviate customer negative reaction to a perceived negative impact on cost/value.
Whether what they do is right/wrong, justified or not, I believe they could at least offer us a comment on this decision

the entitlement is strong in this one.

no company ever needs to explain this to you. a reason behind their business decision is theirs to make and if you want to find out, go get a job there and get into a position where they'll tell you, because where you are right now, is not that place.

Jameliel · May 2018

Greed incurs negative karma. ZOS executives are stuffing their pockets and bellies.

Zypheran · May 2018

Slick_007 wrote: »

Zypheran wrote: »

And if that is to be the case then a simple forthcoming statement from ZOS would alleviate customer negative reaction to a perceived negative impact on cost/value.
Whether what they do is right/wrong, justified or not, I believe they could at least offer us a comment on this decision

the entitlement is strong in this one.

no company ever needs to explain this to you. a reason behind their business decision is theirs to make and if you want to find out, go get a job there and get into a position where they'll tell you, because where you are right now, is not that place.

It's not exactly asking for the minutes of the last board meeting. And I disagree with you that a customer suggesting a vendor comment on their price hike represents a sense of entitlement. I could also suggest that a company that effectively raises their price point without any comment is showing more of an attitude of entitlement. It is the attitude of those that decry anyone who dares voice dissatisfaction, that encourages the vendor to drive profits further and further with each step. Price point is a balance - every company attempts to charge as much as they feel the customer will pay. If there are no objections on one side of this transaction then say goodbye to value! That's a level of entitlement that every consumer should expect.
Also, imo, saying no company needs to explain their pricing policy is not accurate. All successful companies are keenly sensitive to how consumers perceive value/price. Saying that any business has carte blanche to charge what they want without justification is technically correct but would be idiocy as a commercial strategy.

Slick_007 · May 2018

Zypheran wrote: »

It's not exactly asking for the minutes of the last board meeting. And I disagree with you that a customer suggesting a vendor comment on their price hike represents a sense of entitlement. I could also suggest that a company that effectively raises their price point without any comment is showing more of an attitude of entitlement.

first entitlement, now it appears someone failed grade 1 maths. please explain where the price hike is, and how they 'raised' their price point? you could suggest many things, and none of them need to be true, just like what you've suggested here.

Morgul667 · May 2018

Crown store prices are on the high end lately

Feels like they changed the team leader and this new one wants nice figures to report to the boss

Does not care if it aleniates his customers

Zinaroth · May 2018

It's pretty straight forward for me:

The only time I have bought Crowns (outside what I get from my ESO plus) was when they were at a 40 - 50 % discount, because then I actually felt I was getting my money's worth in pixels.

This time around they chose to only do a 20 % discount so I have decided not to buy any Crowns - so in turn they will make less from me.

If everyone does the same, we will see more discount on Crowns.

Zypheran · May 2018

Slick_007 wrote: »

Zypheran wrote: »

It's not exactly asking for the minutes of the last board meeting. And I disagree with you that a customer suggesting a vendor comment on their price hike represents a sense of entitlement. I could also suggest that a company that effectively raises their price point without any comment is showing more of an attitude of entitlement.

first entitlement, now it appears someone failed grade 1 maths. please explain where the price hike is, and how they 'raised' their price point? you could suggest many things, and none of them need to be true, just like what you've suggested here.

Sure, I'm happy to explain and there is no need for the derogatory comments!
Many people wait until sales to stock up on crowns. Just do a forum search under "crown sale" and you will see this. Although slightly off topic, this is done because many people feel that the crown store offers poor value and only buying crowns when on sake pushes the value/cost back in their favour.
The result is that for a large percentage of people, the discounted price represents the baseline price. So a decrease in the reduction represents an increase in the real money cost of crowns. This directly represents a price hike.
Also it is a common strategy for businesses to disguise price increases. The really good strategies manage to disguise it as a sale.

DamenAJ · May 2018

Personally, I agree with the guy who was mentioning people asking for a sale. I've noticed it around, both on the forum and in the game, and at the same time, I think with all their doing right now, they probably DON'T want people stocking up on cheap cheap crowns.
The new expansion is coming out with a lot of new features, the changes to classes and battlegrounds, new gifting being implemented, they're probably hesitant because besides having to deal with the regular issues of all of these things, the more crowns people have piled up, the more stuff they're buying, gifting, maybe even selling(which is a whole can of worms), and they'll have to deal with all of those issues on top of just making sure that the updates are working properly, and seeing what might need to be balanced/tweaked.

Aimora · May 2018

I think ZO$ are testing the waters - seeing what they can get away with - if everyone thinks a discount is a discount I'll buy anyway then 20% will become the new norm, if people hold off and refuse to buy they will go back to 40%, quite simple really

TelvanniWizard · May 2018

ZO$ always finds new ways to disappoint me. What will come next?

Slick_007 · May 2018

Zypheran wrote: »

Sure, I'm happy to explain and there is no need for the derogatory comments!
Many people wait until sales to stock up on crowns. Just do a forum search under "crown sale" and you will see this. Although slightly off topic, this is done because many people feel that the crown store offers poor value and only buying crowns when on sake pushes the value/cost back in their favour.
The result is that for a large percentage of people, the discounted price represents the baseline price. So a decrease in the reduction represents an increase in the real money cost of crowns. This directly represents a price hike.
Also it is a common strategy for businesses to disguise price increases. The really good strategies manage to disguise it as a sale.

so in short, your claim of a price hike cannot be substantiated. The price of crowns did not rise. there was no hike, and your failed attempt to do maths based on a false premise, and then an outright lie claiming the price increased when it did not, well, i dont even know where to start with these. I dont think you can be helped to see the truth.

iiYuki · May 2018

New houses will cost a lot people will spend more on crowns.

Banana · May 2018

The bean counters obviously had a meeting and are running a test

randomkeyhits · May 2018

Its pretty simple if you don't like the offer, don't buy crowns, if you do, then fill on up.

As with all finance stuff, once its over it gets analysed and the only way we figure in this is as the revenue flow, not as people or customers. Pretty much all companies are like this now, no matter what their marketing says.

The only way they listen to us is when we don't spend and even then they look at how little they can get away with dialling it back before we re-engage. If its successful then they move on to a whole new level of gouging.

Sad thing is it never ends well for us customers, no matter what.

Flamedrowner · May 2018

...
[/quote]

In truth I know I won't get an answer to my post. I understand corporate and commercial strategies well. And I agree with you about voting with your wallet. I also felt though, that a polite, open letter suggesting (Not demanding) for a comment, would serve as a constructive way to point out to ZOS that this further change in cost/value structure won't be seen in a positive light by many.
I just didn't expect the vehemence with which people would shout me down for even suggesting to ask ZOS to comment on this latest price strategy.[/quote]

- Don't worry about those special kind of comments - they will always be posted by a special kind of forum writers, who are thankfully very easy to identify. -

What ZOS did here with the half-reduced discount of crown sales was a smart because totally unexpected move, but it was a decision that clearly shows that they're not much interested in the concept of customer/fan/community loyalty.
From my perspective the most toxic decision within the last months, and not really wise after all this nice events (Free week, Anniversary, ESO Plus) to attract new players.
The 40% discounts were the only justification for a portion of players to buy crowns at all, since they feel normal prices are far beyond ridiculousness.
I think one has to wait and see, if they will offer crowns again for a 40% discount - otherwise it maybe time to leave for some who remember the old days, had fun, were supporting beginners etc.
At current stage, I cannot justify to encourage new players to join.

ZOS_JesC · May 2018

Greetings, since we already have a few threads discussing this topic, we will be closing this one. Please feel free to continue the conversation here. Thank you.