Rework the barely used Fighter's Guild ability Evil Hunter

Twohothardware · May 2018

This skill is only slotted for Major Savagery which classes like StamWarden and StamTemplar already get from using their own class skills. The two classes most likely to use Evil Hunter are StamDK or StamSorc because they lack any source of Major or Minor Savagery.

Evil Hunter should continue to give Major Savagery but it needs to do something else instead of reveal stealthed targets for the amount of Stamina it costs to activate. Inner Light reveals stealthed targets, gives 8% max Magicka, gives Major Sorcerory, and procs Empower.

RoyJade · May 2018

Agreed, evil hunter need a rework. Which one, that is a good question.

A lot of people have asked for rally to move in the fighter guild's tree and I think it can be a good idea. Why not fusing evil hunter's passive buff with rally ? While stamsorc and stamDK already have major brutality, it would give every stam class a heal, major brutality and the snare removal which would give serious advantage for DW in pvp and give a new slot for a good skill in the 2H tree (preferably a skill useful for pve).

Ralamil · May 2018

RoyJade wrote: »

Agreed, evil hunter need a rework. Which one, that is a good question.

A lot of people have asked for rally to move in the fighter guild's tree and I think it can be a good idea. Why not fusing evil hunter's passive buff with rally ? While stamsorc and stamDK already have major brutality, it would give every stam class a heal, major brutality and the snare removal which would give serious advantage for DW in pvp and give a new slot for a good skill in the 2H tree (preferably a skill useful for pve).

Not really sure what you're talking about here. Every stamina class except Templar has access to Major Brutality from a class skill. Granted, the nightblade skill isn't ideal, but still, it counters your point a bit... and honestly thinking about it most stamdks who are PvPing would rather use the OTHER morph that instead buffs their heavy attack damage. Also, Dual Wield already had a way to gain Major Brutality. And Hidden Blade (particularly the Shrouded Daggers morph) is a good single target skill for PvP.

Maryal · May 2018

Evil Hunter is an awesome utility skill and I slot it at least 50% of the time in both pve and pvp. It works great to reveal hidden enemies in pvp. Yes, it gives major savagery but it also ups my crit quite a bit! I think anyone who wants it nerfed knows that it is useful against their pvp build OR hasn"t figured out how and when this utility skill is best used

You also gain Minor Berserk for 5 seconds after you deal Critical Damage from Sneak, increasing your damage done by 8%

Twohothardware · May 2018

Maryal wrote: »

Evil Hunter is an awesome utility skill and I slot it at least 50% of the time in both pve and pvp. It works great to reveal hidden enemies in pvp. Yes, it gives major savagery but it also ups my crit quite a bit! I think anyone who wants it nerfed knows that it is useful against their pvp build OR hasn"t figured out how and when this utility skill is best used

You also gain Minor Berserk for 5 seconds after you deal Critical Damage from Sneak, increasing your damage done by 8%

That's exactly what Major Savagery is, it gives you an extra 2191 critical chance percent. I don't think anyone has ever even thought about asking for it to be nerfed, my suggestion is it needs to be redone because so few people actually use it outside of limited cases like in PvP for a StamDK or StamSorc when you're wearing heavy armor and have low crit chance. Evil Hunter has no value at all on classes like Templar and Warden that already have access to Major Savagery.

Harrdarrzarr · May 2018

People are dropping deadly cloak in some pve fights where they don't need the shield because it's gonna do less damage, and they often put evil hunter in place.

Qbiken · May 2018

RoyJade wrote: »

Agreed, evil hunter need a rework. Which one, that is a good question.

A lot of people have asked for rally to move in the fighter guild's tree and I think it can be a good idea. Why not fusing evil hunter's passive buff with rally ? While stamsorc and stamDK already have major brutality, it would give every stam class a heal, major brutality and the snare removal which would give serious advantage for DW in pvp and give a new slot for a good skill in the 2H tree (preferably a skill useful for pve).

I´ve seen one person suggest that......and I can´t for all the gold in this game take that player seriously......

commdt · May 2018

Twohothardware wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

Evil Hunter is an awesome utility skill and I slot it at least 50% of the time in both pve and pvp. It works great to reveal hidden enemies in pvp. Yes, it gives major savagery but it also ups my crit quite a bit! I think anyone who wants it nerfed knows that it is useful against their pvp build OR hasn"t figured out how and when this utility skill is best used

You also gain Minor Berserk for 5 seconds after you deal Critical Damage from Sneak, increasing your damage done by 8%

That's exactly what Major Savagery is, it gives you an extra 2191 critical chance percent. I don't think anyone has ever even thought about asking for it to be nerfed, my suggestion is it needs to be redone because so few people actually use it outside of limited cases like in PvP for a StamDK or StamSorc when you're wearing heavy armor and have low crit chance. Evil Hunter has no value at all on classes like Templar and Warden that already have access to Major Savagery.

DK has major savagery too, with fireball

Feanor · May 2018

RoyJade wrote: »

Agreed, evil hunter need a rework. Which one, that is a good question.

A lot of people have asked for rally to move in the fighter guild's tree and I think it can be a good idea. Why not fusing evil hunter's passive buff with rally ? While stamsorc and stamDK already have major brutality, it would give every stam class a heal, major brutality and the snare removal which would give serious advantage for DW in pvp and give a new slot for a good skill in the 2H tree (preferably a skill useful for pve).

Yes, of course. Why wouldn’t you want snare removal via FM and the Rally heal. But that’s exactly why it’s a bad idea. Stam characters already have the superior mobility, and that’s why FM or Rally should be a meaningful choice. That also goes for the weapon lines. DW has higher damage and less clunky skills whereas 2H offers more utility. It should stay like that.

Toc de Malsvi · May 2018

Evil Hunter should be reworked yes. As to what well thats a tricky question, which is probably why nothing has been done with it.

Kram8ion · May 2018

This is another one of the half skills that I use that only have one good quality for me like magelight, concealed weapon and even relentless focus so a rework would be a good idea

Chilly-McFreeze · May 2018

Feanor wrote: »

RoyJade wrote: »

Agreed, evil hunter need a rework. Which one, that is a good question.

A lot of people have asked for rally to move in the fighter guild's tree and I think it can be a good idea. Why not fusing evil hunter's passive buff with rally ? While stamsorc and stamDK already have major brutality, it would give every stam class a heal, major brutality and the snare removal which would give serious advantage for DW in pvp and give a new slot for a good skill in the 2H tree (preferably a skill useful for pve).

Yes, of course. Why wouldn’t you want snare removal via FM and the Rally heal. But that’s exactly why it’s a bad idea. Stam characters already have the superior mobility, and that’s why FM or Rally should be a meaningful choice. That also goes for the weapon lines. DW has higher damage and less clunky skills whereas 2H offers more utility. It should stay like that.

I agree that FM + a rally like skill would lead to some issues. But I think what was ment is to move the whole Momentum skill including FM + Rally morph to fighter guild. Not that this would be perfect either.

What do you think about the comparison between Inner Light and Evil Hunter? IL wins by a lot, I think. And OP is right about it being nothing but a passsive sitting dead on your bar, doing to little for too much cost.

Evil Hunter's morph incentive is more of a joke. Reducing FG skills stamina costs while active... Which skill should I use after EH to come out on a plus and not being useless or really niche? On top of my head the only combos I can imagine is Evil Hunter spam while searching for a NB... or EH into Silver Leash, but the detection radius is so small that you don't use a two-button pull to get to them.
Camouflaged Hunter should be the ganking morph, but it lost in comparison to mage light empower. See how the empower changes will turn out.

So what gives? I actually don't know what to do with this skill. Maybe an increased radius/ duration would be a good start to make it usefull for it's intended purpose. Maybe change Hunters cost reduction from "while being active" to "while being slotted". And even then it's niche.

Chilly-McFreeze · May 2018

Maryal wrote: »

Evil Hunter is an awesome utility skill and I slot it at least 50% of the time in both pve and pvp. It works great to reveal hidden enemies in pvp. Yes, it gives major savagery but it also ups my crit quite a bit! I think anyone who wants it nerfed knows that it is useful against their pvp build OR hasn"t figured out how and when this utility skill is best used

You also gain Minor Berserk for 5 seconds after you deal Critical Damage from Sneak, increasing your damage done by 8%

Do you even know what major savagery is?
Nobody wants it nerfed. People want a buff or a rework.
Minor Berserk is granted by Camouflaged Hunter. ITT we're talking about Evil Hunter, the other morph.

Strider__Roshin · May 2018

I haven't morphed this skill since they gave it the nerf hammer. None of the morphs are worth putting a skill point into.

Qbiken · May 2018

I remember when the skill used to give a small % change to do extra damage against daedric creatures just for having it slotted. Was like a proc-set in passive form xD

Asardes · May 2018

The enemy reveal from this skill is utter dung, you have to basically sit on top of the stealthed player to make it work. For starters they should increase the radius. Another option is to make it a single bar ability that gives the buff on both bars for 15-20s when activated. Putting two major buffs in one skill would be rather unbalanced.

Twohothardware · May 2018

commdt wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

Evil Hunter is an awesome utility skill and I slot it at least 50% of the time in both pve and pvp. It works great to reveal hidden enemies in pvp. Yes, it gives major savagery but it also ups my crit quite a bit! I think anyone who wants it nerfed knows that it is useful against their pvp build OR hasn"t figured out how and when this utility skill is best used

You also gain Minor Berserk for 5 seconds after you deal Critical Damage from Sneak, increasing your damage done by 8%

That's exactly what Major Savagery is, it gives you an extra 2191 critical chance percent. I don't think anyone has ever even thought about asking for it to be nerfed, my suggestion is it needs to be redone because so few people actually use it outside of limited cases like in PvP for a StamDK or StamSorc when you're wearing heavy armor and have low crit chance. Evil Hunter has no value at all on classes like Templar and Warden that already have access to Major Savagery.

DK has major savagery too, with fireball

Flames of Oblivion costs Magicka to cast, something StamDK doesn't have enough to go around with all the other Magicka based skills. FoO damage is also underwhelming and the fireball floating over your head animation even looks dumb IMO. It's another skill like Evil Hunter that's good for nothing but Major Savagery.

Vapirko · May 2018

It should actually outline people who are vampires and ww so you can make a vamp/ww hunter class and there should be small AP bounties for their deaths.

TankHealz2015 · May 2018

Love to see this skill with a small always on buff plus both morphs more focused towards undead and were- creatures.

example:

base skill: always detect hidden undead or were- creatures within 3-5 meters
- very close range and only detect undead and were- creatures

morph 1 = activate to increase detect radius to 10 meters for X seconds -- only affects undead and were creatures

morph 2 = activate to increase execute damage (when they are below 25% health) vs undead and were- creatures only - for X seconds

love to see the skill stronger vs undead and were- creatures, but perhaps a tiny bit less for others...

Feanor · May 2018

@Chilly-McFreeze

In my opinion even IL is underwhelming, especially with the upcoming changes to Empower. The fighters and Mage guild skill lines are totally situational and mostly not very good - except the ultimates. I think it’s hard to rework the skills and find the sweet spot of being desirable but not OP. The Camo Hunter bug a while back is one of the reasons the skill is what it is now. It’s still connected with one shots in the mind of players. I don’t think the overall feeling of meh will ever change for these two guild lines.

Chilly-McFreeze · May 2018

TankHealz2015 wrote: »

Love to see this skill with a small always on buff plus both morphs more focused towards undead and were- creatures.

example:

base skill: always detect hidden undead or were- creatures within 3-5 meters
- very close range and only detect undead and were- creatures

morph 1 = activate to increase detect radius to 10 meters for X seconds -- only affects undead and were creatures

morph 2 = activate to increase execute damage (when they are below 25% health) vs undead and were- creatures only - for X seconds

love to see the skill stronger vs undead and were- creatures, but perhaps a tiny bit less for others...

I get where your idea is coming from, but you already got 20% increased damage done with FG abilities againgst undead from Skilled Tracker + some ultimate from Banish the wicked. Another dmg boon that stacks on top of that would be overkill.

TankHealz2015 · May 2018

Fixed:

Morph 2 = something really good, but only versus undead and were- creatures...

Narvuntien · May 2018

The detect radius should be larger, its too easy for the stealthed to close the distance on you without you seeing them.

How about it straight gives empower when activated? now empower is no longer broken.

I have been using radiant magelight a long time but with the empower changes I'll probably drop it.

SodanTok · May 2018

Having some Major Brutality outside classes would make nightblades and templars more fun to play for me, but that is not even point.

This skill is for detecting enemies and it is bad at it. No bigger reason needed for rework.

Gallagher563 · May 2018

Please give it a heal over time. It should be an option other than viger in pve. The heal should be less than viger but still good so their is a trade off to having more crit.

evoniee · May 2018

The reveal kinda useless because radius too small. One roll dodge with bow + cloak can evade the radius so easily.

Silver_Strider · May 2018

Reduce the cost and increase the radius to be about 8m (same thing with Mage Light)
Should grant Minor Force on activation (Been working on ideas for redesigning skills and will list Trap Beast changes to)
Evil Hunter should grant Empower
Camohunter should increase detection radius (10m) and increase damage to stealthed/detected enemies.

Trap Beast gets Minor Berserk for 15 seconds on Lightweight Trap Beast and Rearming Trap gets additional Bleed Damage.

Not the world's greatest suggestions but I'm happy with them.

Twohothardware · May 2018

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Reduce the cost and increase the radius to be about 8m (same thing with Mage Light)
Should grant Minor Force on activation (Been working on ideas for redesigning skills and will list Trap Beast changes to)
Evil Hunter should grant Empower
Camohunter should increase detection radius (10m) and increase damage to stealthed/detected enemies.

Trap Beast gets Minor Berserk for 15 seconds on Lightweight Trap Beast and Rearming Trap gets additional Bleed Damage.

Not the world's greatest suggestions but I'm happy with them.

Yeah I like those suggestions. It definitely needs a larger detection radius because 5m is completely useless but as you suggested it also needs to offer a damage bonus on activation like Minor Force and Empower.

exeeter702 · May 2018

RoyJade wrote: »

Agreed, evil hunter need a rework. Which one, that is a good question.

A lot of people have asked for rally to move in the fighter guild's tree and I think it can be a good idea. Why not fusing evil hunter's passive buff with rally ? While stamsorc and stamDK already have major brutality, it would give every stam class a heal, major brutality and the snare removal which would give serious advantage for DW in pvp and give a new slot for a good skill in the 2H tree (preferably a skill useful for pve).

You understand how over loaded a skill that provides, major brut, major sav, stamina heal is right? That idea alone goes against the entirety of established ability weights in this game.

And that isnt even humoring your thinking that rally also comes with the snare removal (that is the other morph), so in your head you wanted a skill that provided major sav, major brut, stamina heal and snare removal / immunty...........

You are crazy amigo.

Twohothardware · May 2018

exeeter702 wrote: »

RoyJade wrote: »

Agreed, evil hunter need a rework. Which one, that is a good question.

A lot of people have asked for rally to move in the fighter guild's tree and I think it can be a good idea. Why not fusing evil hunter's passive buff with rally ? While stamsorc and stamDK already have major brutality, it would give every stam class a heal, major brutality and the snare removal which would give serious advantage for DW in pvp and give a new slot for a good skill in the 2H tree (preferably a skill useful for pve).

You understand how over loaded a skill that provides, major brut, major sav, stamina heal is right? That idea alone goes against the entirety of established ability weights in this game.

And that isnt even humoring your thinking that rally also comes with the snare removal (that is the other morph), so in your head you wanted a skill that provided major sav, major brut, stamina heal and snare removal / immunty...........

You are crazy amigo.

Moving Rally to the Fighter's Guild line would never work because there's nothing to stop Magicka classes from using it as well. As I said in the other thread that was suggesting this idea, imagine MagSorc's that on top of everything else would then have forward momentum to remove all snares.

Lynx7386 · May 2018

My biggest issue with expert hunter - specifically the evil hunter morph - is that it's a 5 second ability that costs an absolutely massive amount of stamina, and then reduces fighter's guild costs by 25% while active.

In 5 seconds, you're not going to be using more than 2 or 3 fighter's guild abilities (and certainly not on a dps character), so the 25% cost reduction doesnt even make up for the cost of activating evil hunter in the first place.