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Warden or Dk for pvp tanking ?

Zordrage
Zordrage
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????
  • BuildMan
    BuildMan
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    I tank pvp on a warden and I love it. Livewire, shacklebreaker, and bloodspawn. Works for both pvp and pve
    PSN: YourACasul
    For the Covenant!!

    CP 980 Redguard Stamina Warden Flawless Conqueror

    Ps4/NA/DC
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
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    Warden. By a lot.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • Ragnarock41
    Ragnarock41
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    DKs really have no value when they deal no damage in PvP, so wardens.
  • Maura_Neysa
    Maura_Neysa
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    Warden, Frost is a beast. You'll be a CC nightmare. DK can survive more damage, but the Warden has way more usefulness.

    Front S&B: Leeching Viines, Arctic Blast, Ice Fortress, Bull Netch, Shimmering, Thicket
    Back Master Destro: Frost Wall, Gripping, Deceptive, Frost Clench, Corrupting Pollen, PermaFrost
    Meridia's and Desert Rose
    Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
    Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe
    Maz Challenger, Shadow Challenger, Faulkreath Challenger, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor
    Major
    Dragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,
    Warden 2x Bow DPS
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord
    Others
    PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt

    Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.


  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    Console? Warden
    PC? DKs still the best PvP tanks.

    That being said, who cares about being a PvP tank?

    Warden is the better class.
    PC NA - Thogard / Sir Thogalot / Thoggy Boi jr / Thogaine / El Thogardo

    twitch.tv/ThogardPvP
  • Zordrage
    Zordrage
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    Thogard wrote: »

    That being said, who cares about being a PvP tank?

    those that are sick of Getting shited on by an army of broken NBs all day...
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
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    DK cannot raw tank more than a warden can. Not even close to same mitigation.

    A DK has 5% damage reduction when blocking (10% more of 50% base reduction) and 3300 spell resistance. (5.16% damage reduction) So you have 10.16% damage reduction, half only works against mag, and the other half only works on the hard to sustain block. (No dots either) OPTIONAL: Melee maim on talons

    Warden gets minor protection on their iced armour. OPTIONAL: some extra spell and physical resists for slotted WE skills.

    Even discounting the slotted skills, constant 8% against everything but oblivion > situational DK buffs. You can add things like shimmering shield in all its OP glory, constant toughness, better ult gen and comparable healing. DK has better stam regen, that's about it, I suppose a strong tank ult too, but numbers will melt you hard.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • Zordrage
    Zordrage
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    ak_pvp wrote: »

    . You can add things like shimmering shield in all its OP glory, constant toughness, better ult gen and comparable healing. DK has better stam regen, that's about it, I suppose a strong tank ult too, but numbers will melt you hard.

    this is sooo Biased... acting like DKs have no Reflect Wings and a Bunch of Absorbs...
    and ignoring that DKs can convert Mag to Stamina in some extend...

    Also i have a feeling Shimmering Shield will get multiple Nerfs in the future i bet anyway....
    Edited by Zordrage on April 28, 2018 10:43PM
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
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    Zordrage wrote: »
    ak_pvp wrote: »

    . You can add things like shimmering shield in all its OP glory, constant toughness, better ult gen and comparable healing. DK has better stam regen, that's about it, I suppose a strong tank ult too, but numbers will melt you hard.

    this is sooo Biased... acting like DKs have no Reflect Wings and a Bunch of Absorbs...
    and ignoring that DKs can convert Mag to Stamina in some extend...

    Also i have a feeling Shimmering Shield will get multiple Nerfs in the future i bet anyway....

    Based of live:

    Wings sucks, shimmering doesn't. Reflect 4 attacks for 4k mag, if you are against 2 ranged targets, that is literally 1s of shield, skill+weave x2 means its gone. The snare remove is useless, since you are snared staight away, a stamden can use their class's burst heal and FM, whereas an SDK is forced to give up a burst, or run mist.

    Shimmering, absorb 3, gain ult and 500 mag. The Mag>Stam thing was mentioned, that DK has better stamregen, but that isn't to say warden is bad, it just has lower offstat. Also, what other absorb, the health based shield that might protect you from a light attack?

    Netch is 335 regen, heal passive is 500 regen if you are healing every second with lotus weaving. 800 equiv stam regen.

    DK ult return regen is 378~ if used on cooldown. (Using gilliams measurement of 250, and adding a bloodspawn proc every 10s, in reality its probably less since ulting on CD is a bad idea) assuming you'd shield every 5s, which is quite mag costly, 396. A total of 774 equivalent regen+378 Mag regen.

    So whilst a DK might have higher regen, they would also have it be a lot more volatile, and have worse class based, active and innate (passive) defenses, worse ult gen, and worse damage. Oh, don't forget worse mobility too. A MagDK can probably heal at a similar level to a warden, a stamDK can't.
    Edited by ak_pvp on April 28, 2018 11:39PM
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • Maura_Neysa
    Maura_Neysa
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    Thogard wrote: »
    Console? Warden
    PC? DKs still the best PvP tanks.

    That being said, who cares about being a PvP tank?

    Warden is the better class.

    LMFAO, give me one decent healer and a few DPS back behind the wall and I can hold an open Keep door against 40+ people for hours. The zerg cant rush the choke point because of Frost. Spartan 300 that s**t, and its a blast.
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    DK cannot raw tank more than a warden can. Not even close to same mitigation.

    A DK has 5% damage reduction when blocking (10% more of 50% base reduction) and 3300 spell resistance. (5.16% damage reduction) So you have 10.16% damage reduction, half only works against mag, and the other half only works on the hard to sustain block. (No dots either) OPTIONAL: Melee maim on talons

    Warden gets minor protection on their iced armour. OPTIONAL: some extra spell and physical resists for slotted WE skills.

    Even discounting the slotted skills, constant 8% against everything but oblivion > situational DK buffs. You can add things like shimmering shield in all its OP glory, constant toughness, better ult gen and comparable healing. DK has better stam regen, that's about it, I suppose a strong tank ult too, but numbers will melt you hard.

    DKs are BiS tank because they have access to exactly 1 thing that Wardens don't, Iron Skin 10% additional damage blocked. Warden doesn't have access to anything that a DK can't get.
    - Resistance can easy hit cap on both classes
    - Both classes can easily sustain Block
    - While Wardens out stam regen while blocking, its by like 20 Stam. Its just more consistent as DK requires skill spaming, and Ulti dumping and Wardens requires you to just maintain 2 buffs, Netch and Nature's Gift proc's
    - Minor Protection, a DK can get if they chose and still isn't as strong as Iron Skin, not on a Tank (Block is the single greatest source of damage reduction in the game. Its the only one that gives more then 50% reduction. Its followed by Resistances which is cap at 50%
    We are, or at least I am talking about a Tank in all its glory. DK can take more damage, Warden can provide more utility while taking almost as much damage. We are talking about a tiny difference though, no more than Reguard is a better StamDPS then Khajiti, Orc, or Bosmer.
    Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
    Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe
    Maz Challenger, Shadow Challenger, Faulkreath Challenger, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor
    Major
    Dragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,
    Warden 2x Bow DPS
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord
    Others
    PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt

    Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.


  • RouDeR
    RouDeR
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    Here is my Warden Tanking the Emperor and his group for around 2 mins .

  • Qbiken
    Qbiken
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    RouDeR wrote: »
    Here is my Warden Tanking the Emperor and his group for around 2 mins .


    Those players afterwards be like:

    "Let´s never talk about this ever again"
    WTB a non-bugged werewolf for at least one patch
    (PC/EU)
    Probably the worst Werewolf on PC/EU


    Characters:
    EU
    DC - Octius Ciel - Magicka Sorcerer - Breton
    DC - Evelina Septim - Magicka Templar - Breton
    EP - Josephine Tharn - Magicka Templar - Breton
    DC - Zireael the White Flame - Stamina Sorcerer - Bosmer
    EP - Qbi-One-Kenobi - (Previously Tankus Maximus II) - Argonian
    AD - Anconeus - Magicka Nightblade - High Elf
    EP - Cirilla Élen Riannon - Magica Dragonknight - Dark Elf
    AD - The Cub of Cintra - Stamina Nightblade - Redguard
    AD - Alinare Larentius - Magicka Templar - High Elf
    DC - The Alt-Knight - Stamina Dragonknight - Nord
    DC - Féreldir - Magicka Warden - Argonian
    AD - Kuvirá - Stamina Sorcerer - Redguard
    EP - 1vX Material - Stamina Warden - Orc
    EP - Fenrir the Windwalker - Stamina Sorcerer - Orc
    EP - Q_Q Mancer Stamina Necromancer - Orc

    NA
    EP - Sister Q - Stamina Sorcerer - Nord

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    vBRP
  • kerthas
    kerthas
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    The best tank in my point of view (i try all of them) in pvp, is the templar heal, can tank a zerg and still survive.
  • GreenhaloX
    GreenhaloX
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    Who actually even tanks in PvP???
  • kerthas
    kerthas
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    a lot of people in smallscale group or more. Because, a tank in pvp is like a tank in pve, he is bringing a lot of utility for his team. For Example, a templar heal, the best tank, will bring a hell of survavibility to his team. A Warden bring a lot of buff and cc, and some healing. A Dk Tank bring a lot of cc, and some buff.

    Edited by kerthas on May 1, 2018 6:14AM
  • TheBonesXXX
    TheBonesXXX
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    A Warden and DK tank working with that damn tether between em
    Warning:Incoming sarcasm and sardonicism.

    PvP just doesn't have one playstyle.
  • BuildMan
    BuildMan
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    A Warden and DK tank working with that damn tether between em
    I do this all the time when I see another tank. I’m like “Let’s be tank buddies!!!” And then we just sit there holding block, immobilizing, and healing each other. It’s a grand time.
    PSN: YourACasul
    For the Covenant!!

    CP 980 Redguard Stamina Warden Flawless Conqueror

    Ps4/NA/DC
  • exeeter702
    exeeter702
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    There could be an interesting discussion between warden and Dk if you are talking about durable, resilient tank that has agency and meaningful influence in a pvp encounter.

    If you are talking about a useless time wasting tryhard with zero ACTUAL pvp influence "hahahaha these noobz cant even kill me" or "ill hold this choke point for a little while! Because i am pvping!!!!" (You arent), than really who cares.

    Regarding the former, personally i perfer to have a warden with me.
    Edited by exeeter702 on May 2, 2018 8:11PM
  • BuildMan
    BuildMan
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    exeeter702 wrote: »
    There could be an interesting discussion between warden and Dk if you are talking about durable, resilient tank that has agency and meaningful influence in a pvp encounter.

    If you are talking about a useless time wasting tryhard with zero ACTUAL pvp influence "hahahaha these noobz cant even kill me" or "ill hold this choke point for a little while! Because i am pvping!!!!" (You arent), than really who cares.

    Regarding the former, personally i perfer to have a warden with me.

    Wardens can cast gripping shards off an edge if you stand real close to the edge. I do this on people breaking the front doors all the time. Mix this with some destro bombs or tethers and you have a failed attack.
    PSN: YourACasul
    For the Covenant!!

    CP 980 Redguard Stamina Warden Flawless Conqueror

    Ps4/NA/DC
  • exeeter702
    exeeter702
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    BuildMan wrote: »
    exeeter702 wrote: »
    There could be an interesting discussion between warden and Dk if you are talking about durable, resilient tank that has agency and meaningful influence in a pvp encounter.

    If you are talking about a useless time wasting tryhard with zero ACTUAL pvp influence "hahahaha these noobz cant even kill me" or "ill hold this choke point for a little while! Because i am pvping!!!!" (You arent), than really who cares.

    Regarding the former, personally i perfer to have a warden with me.

    Wardens can cast gripping shards off an edge if you stand real close to the edge. I do this on people breaking the front doors all the time. Mix this with some destro bombs or tethers and you have a failed attack.

    Im sure you do, as that was not what i was reffering to. Not to mention that setup is reliant on coordinated ults and gate is not exclusive to warden tanks.
    Edited by exeeter702 on May 2, 2018 9:23PM
  • wheem_ESO
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    Thogard wrote: »
    Warden is the better class.
    Maybe it's better in a Stam-vs-Stam comparison (outside of dueling?), but a Magicka Warden is most certainly not better than a Magicka DK (except for being a dedicated healer I suppose, in which case it's still kinda gimpy compared to a Templar).
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
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    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    Warden is the better class.
    Maybe it's better in a Stam-vs-Stam comparison (outside of dueling?), but a Magicka Warden is most certainly not better than a Magicka DK (except for being a dedicated healer I suppose, in which case it's still kinda gimpy compared to a Templar).

    MagDK will dominate warden next patch, this patch its even. Assuming similar builds, warden has better burst, better sustain, and better mobility. Defense is similar (crystallized>>wings, but DK can block more.) Healing is similar, and both lack executes. DK wins on CC and pressure.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • wheem_ESO
    wheem_ESO
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    ak_pvp wrote: »
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    Warden is the better class.
    Maybe it's better in a Stam-vs-Stam comparison (outside of dueling?), but a Magicka Warden is most certainly not better than a Magicka DK (except for being a dedicated healer I suppose, in which case it's still kinda gimpy compared to a Templar).

    MagDK will dominate warden next patch, this patch its even. Assuming similar builds, warden has better burst, better sustain, and better mobility. Defense is similar (crystallized>>wings, but DK can block more.) Healing is similar, and both lack executes. DK wins on CC and pressure.
    It's certainly not even in BGs. Warden might have more burst in theory, but it's far easier to deal with (unless perhaps you're a Templar, and/or have one on your team providing some frequent cleansing synergy). Neither Mag Warden nor Mag DK has any in-combat mobility worth mentioning, unless using Mist Form.

    While 10 seconds worth of Major Expedition on the Warden can be pretty handy at times, when you're chain snared (and you will be) it has very limited usefulness. Other than that, you can use the Vine heal/pull on a teammate, but that's by no means reliable, unless maybe you're always in a coordinated group that has a ranged player with solid positioning.

    I've played quite a lot as a Magicka Warden, and have gone against other Mag Wardens and Mag DKs on 3 different classes: the aforementioned Mag Warden, Mag Sorcerer, and Mag Nightblade. Thus far, the good Mag DKs have been far more dangerous to me on all 3 classes than any Mag Warden that I've ever encountered - including the ones that I consider to be good players. Needing the shalks in order to land kills is a huge liability, as is the generally poor survivability (barring the overpowered class absorb vs projectile-based magicka setups).
  • VirtualElizabeth
    VirtualElizabeth
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    ak_pvp wrote: »
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    Warden is the better class.
    Maybe it's better in a Stam-vs-Stam comparison (outside of dueling?), but a Magicka Warden is most certainly not better than a Magicka DK (except for being a dedicated healer I suppose, in which case it's still kinda gimpy compared to a Templar).

    MagDK will dominate warden next patch, this patch its even. Assuming similar builds, warden has better burst, better sustain, and better mobility. Defense is similar (crystallized>>wings, but DK can block more.) Healing is similar, and both lack executes. DK wins on CC and pressure.

    YES! So excited. DK - the most visually appealing class in terms of it's skills and a hell of a lot of fun to play! My DK lives again!!!
    @ElizabethInAustin
    NA/PC - EP
    Eleanour Masterham - Breton Templar
    Elise Masterham - Breton Magicka Nightblade
    Elinora Valen - Dunmer MagDK
    Elsa Larethal - Altmer Mag Warden
  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    Warden is the better class.
    Maybe it's better in a Stam-vs-Stam comparison (outside of dueling?), but a Magicka Warden is most certainly not better than a Magicka DK (except for being a dedicated healer I suppose, in which case it's still kinda gimpy compared to a Templar).

    MagDK will dominate warden next patch, this patch its even. Assuming similar builds, warden has better burst, better sustain, and better mobility. Defense is similar (crystallized>>wings, but DK can block more.) Healing is similar, and both lack executes. DK wins on CC and pressure.
    It's certainly not even in BGs. Warden might have more burst in theory, but it's far easier to deal with (unless perhaps you're a Templar, and/or have one on your team providing some frequent cleansing synergy). Neither Mag Warden nor Mag DK has any in-combat mobility worth mentioning, unless using Mist Form.

    While 10 seconds worth of Major Expedition on the Warden can be pretty handy at times, when you're chain snared (and you will be) it has very limited usefulness. Other than that, you can use the Vine heal/pull on a teammate, but that's by no means reliable, unless maybe you're always in a coordinated group that has a ranged player with solid positioning.

    I've played quite a lot as a Magicka Warden, and have gone against other Mag Wardens and Mag DKs on 3 different classes: the aforementioned Mag Warden, Mag Sorcerer, and Mag Nightblade. Thus far, the good Mag DKs have been far more dangerous to me on all 3 classes than any Mag Warden that I've ever encountered - including the ones that I consider to be good players. Needing the shalks in order to land kills is a huge liability, as is the generally poor survivability (barring the overpowered class absorb vs projectile-based magicka setups).

    Mag warden is better than mag DK for small scale PvP, although both are good.

    Magden can switch between healer and burst dmg roles very easily, it also has great CC (gripping shards root) and far better mobility thanks to Spider-Man vines.

    There’s a reason my group always runs with one or two magdens, and it’s not because we can’t find a mag DK.

    Tbh there isn’t really anything a mag DK can do that a magden can’t do better in a group setting. Solo, that’s a different story.
    PC NA - Thogard / Sir Thogalot / Thoggy Boi jr / Thogaine / El Thogardo

    twitch.tv/ThogardPvP
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