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Are the new jewelry traits needed?

Ectheliontnacil
Ectheliontnacil
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Please don't get mad at me and please read my post before disagreeing with me :smile: .

I want to start off by saying that I am kind of excited about the new jewelry traits. The swift trait will be awesome for farming materials and questing for example and infused for pushing the damage on bursty specs. Part of me is looking forward to all the new options available to us and the theorycrafting that comes with the Summerset update.

However there is also a downside to this increase in build diversity. In short: Things become more and more complicated.
Don't get me wrong, being able to play unique setups is awesome and an increase in sets/traits/abilities results in more sophisticated setups. But balancing a wide range of gear options as well as classes and guild skillines is a daunting task.

With the introduction of v16 to the game, all previous gear options were rendered useless. For the first few patches players basically had access to crafted sets and agility/willpower/endurance jewelry in v16. The latter granted purely stat based set bonuses (spell/wep dmg, max stats and regen) and crafted sets were limited in number and only and handful were viable, which made them very easy to balance. In pvp stamina classes used 3 agility, 5 hundings and 3 generic set pieces. For magicka it was 3 willpower, 5 seducer and 3 magnus (mostly). I am not saying that the game back then was perfect, but this simplicity with regards to gear allowed for more effective class balancing.

To prove my point, look at the updates that succeeded IC and Orisinium. After Orsinium a wide of new gear options was rapidly introduced to the game and combat balance spiralled out of control. Proc stets, heal debuffs insane heavy armour sets all completely destroyed any attempt at balancing the game for almost a year! It was a truly dark time for pvp. Procs running rampant and 90% heal debuffs dominating the duelling scene.
And how did they fix these issues? They didn't, they were not able to fix them! The only fix so many of these broken sets ever saw was a nerf into utter uselessness (same thing happened to the overpowered nirnhoned armour trait). Who uses viper nowadays? Who uses vicecanon? There was a time where 50% of Cyrodiil ran those sets and now they have become very niche and have disappeared from pve altogether.

I fear history will repeat itself with the introduction of new jewelry traits. Bloodthirsty is insanely overpowered in PvE right now, and in Pvp as well for certain specs. Either it will stay best in slot, completely reking other trait options or ZOS will nerf it to hell in the last PTS week.

I guess my point is that I like simplicity when it comes to gear options. Simple stat based bonuses should be all that exists in game. Build crafting will take a hit, but a lot of other areas of the game will become more important.
Focus will once again be on your ability setup, your cp allocation and your skill! And this is as it should be. No more hardcounters, no more cheesy specs, no more instagib proc sets...just learn to play instead.

Idk those are my thoughts on the matter and it's not just jewelry traits im talking about. Every patch they push out new procs...if you're out of ideas for sets, bring us new content or performance improvements instead (nobody likes farming gear with every update anyways).

But let me know what you think :smile: .
Edited by Ectheliontnacil on May 2, 2018 7:49PM
  • Sergykid
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    if the game would be based on skill then how will the self-important unskillful people who win because of the build will accommodate?
    -PC EU- / battlegrounds on my youtube
  • VexingArcanist
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    Trait requrements for crafted set unlocks.
  • Ectheliontnacil
    Ectheliontnacil
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    Trait requrements for crafted set unlocks.

    They could make it so that 1 jewelry trait would count as 3 regular traits for set crafting. If you've researched healthy, robust and arcane you can craft 9 trait sets. If ZOS want's us to wait a year until we can craft 9 trait jewelry, they can adjust the research times accordingly.
  • jedtb16_ESO
    jedtb16_ESO
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    Trait requrements for crafted set unlocks.

    They could make it so that 1 jewelry trait would count as 3 regular traits for set crafting. If you've researched healthy, robust and arcane you can craft 9 trait sets. If ZOS want's us to wait a year until we can craft 9 trait jewelry, they can adjust the research times accordingly.

    why?

    it's new stuff. it will take time.

    i see no problem with that.
  • reprosal
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    I am fine with the process it takes to upgrade them. Crafted sets though will indeed be an issue since it will take around 3-4 months to be able to just craft at the current research times.

    Note: not sure on total research time. Just a guess.
  • ghastley
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    Trait requrements for crafted set unlocks.

    ... If ZOS want's us to wait a year ...

    They want you to buy the Jewelry Crafting Research Scrolls from the Crown Store, instead.

    Edited by ghastley on May 2, 2018 8:10PM
  • Ectheliontnacil
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    @jedtb16_ESO

    Jewelry researching is not what I am concerned about. As I said, no matter how many traits, you can simply adjust the research times to get the same results. Doesn't matter if you have to research 10 traits or just one, if the one trait takes 10 times longer to unlock.

    But discussing this is not the purpose of this thread^^.
  • Leandor
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    Who uses viper nowadays? Who uses vicecanon? There was a time where 50% of Cyrodiil ran those sets and now they have become very niche and have disappeared from pve altogether.
    Have you ever participated in battlegrounds? Especially viper is a set that maybe not 50%, but still a very significant number of builds play. Even vicecanon has its place. Proc sets are still cheese-to-go in battlegrounds.
  • DeadlyRecluse
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    However there is also a downside to this increase in build diversity. In short: Things become more and more complicated.

    I guess my point is that I like simplicity when it comes to gear options. Simple stat based bonuses should be all that exists in game.

    Shamelessly cherry picking the part I want to respond to.

    I don't see increased complexity as a bad thing, and I don't really see the new traits as really that much increased complexity.

    For PvE it'll be pretty straightforward. There will be a little testing, then it will be clear what the best trait is for DPS, with maybe a few outliers or builds that take advantage on one trait more than others--but the added complexity will only last about 2 weeks, maybe less if the PTS gets a roughly "final" build prior to release. Tanks and healers will have some additional flexibility, which is kind of cool, but nothing super groundbreaking.

    In PvP, you'll have real options. I'm excited for tri stat trait--lots of people are pumped about infused, bloodthirsty, and swift. That's super cool! And with a few exceptions (*cough* infused potion cooldown reduction jewelry *cough*), most of the traits have a real tradeoff and don't seem super imbalanced. Obviously, some things will come to light that overperform, and hopefully they're reigned in appropriately.

    I guess my point is that I like simplicity when it comes to gear options. Simple stat based bonuses should be all that exists in game.

    Idk those are my thoughts on the matter and it's not just jewelry traits im talking about. Every patch they push out new procs...

    I don't really see any new jewelry traits that aren't simple stat based bonuses! They're all very straightforward and play with existing damage scaling mechanics. There's no fancy proc-trait, just the ability to trade some of one stat (a resource) for another (speed) or damage in one area (infused damage glyph) for damage in another (bloodthirsty). It allows for actual horizontal progression and adjustment of builds, rather than the continual vertical progression.

    A lot depends on how committed ZOS is to keeping jewelry traits reasonable and balanced, but so far that seems to be the case.
    Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub
  • IcyDeadPeople
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    However there is also a downside to this increase in build diversity. In short: Things become more and more complicated.

    Yes, it's more challenging to balance, but the more complex choices and various paths to achieve certain goals are what make it fun to come up with build ideas. This has been a big part of what makes ESO kind of unique even since beta, although it certainly improved since then. Lots more choices and options for interesting builds compared to similar games.

    If you take it the other direction, if choices become too easy where some setup X is obvious BiS for any situation etc, this makes theorycrafting a lot less interesting. If you have many players running the exact same build, it can help distinguish player skill level from build, but it would be a rather different sort of game.



    Edited by IcyDeadPeople on May 2, 2018 8:34PM
  • jedtb16_ESO
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    @jedtb16_ESO

    Jewelry researching is not what I am concerned about. As I said, no matter how many traits, you can simply adjust the research times to get the same results. Doesn't matter if you have to research 10 traits or just one, if the one trait takes 10 times longer to unlock.

    But discussing this is not the purpose of this thread^^.

    hmm... i'm wondering what the point of this thread is.

    seems to be a whine about more diversity/choice in builds.

    let me see if i can find you some cheese to go with that.
  • Ectheliontnacil
    Ectheliontnacil
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    @jedtb16_ESO

    Jewelry researching is not what I am concerned about. As I said, no matter how many traits, you can simply adjust the research times to get the same results. Doesn't matter if you have to research 10 traits or just one, if the one trait takes 10 times longer to unlock.

    But discussing this is not the purpose of this thread^^.

    hmm... i'm wondering what the point of this thread is.

    seems to be a whine about more diversity/choice in builds.

    let me see if i can find you some cheese to go with that.

    Go troll someone else, I'm not in the mood.
  • jedtb16_ESO
    jedtb16_ESO
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    @jedtb16_ESO

    Jewelry researching is not what I am concerned about. As I said, no matter how many traits, you can simply adjust the research times to get the same results. Doesn't matter if you have to research 10 traits or just one, if the one trait takes 10 times longer to unlock.

    But discussing this is not the purpose of this thread^^.

    hmm... i'm wondering what the point of this thread is.

    seems to be a whine about more diversity/choice in builds.

    let me see if i can find you some cheese to go with that.

    Go troll someone else, I'm not in the mood.

    have a nice day.
  • Ectheliontnacil
    Ectheliontnacil
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    @jedtb16_ESO

    Thx, you too :smile: .
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