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The ceiling and the floor
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Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭They have raised the floor but also the ceiling so it's irrelevant. People are still going to hate on the floor guys.Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..3 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thorstienn wrote: »This is about the focus on LA in SS. So many change to buff LA (empower, imbue weapons etc) plus the scaling bonus from max stat is completely the wrong direction.
I haven't played PTS much yet (waiting for EU character copy) but I must admit that I've been sharing this concern ever since the Summerset patch notes came out.Thorstienn wrote: »Abilities should always be our focus; LA (auto attack in some MMOs) should be that little bit that separates the best of the best, from the best.
Well unfortunately ZOS' idea of combat in ESO is that it MUST combine abilities and basic attacks (light and heavy) to ensure diversity. Every.Single.Time since launch, when the meta was emphasizing on abilities, they made changes to ensure we would need light and heavy attacks thrown in the mix.The game has already bringed floor and ceiling close enough to the point there is few hard modes left that average players cant complete with more or less effort.
That is just soooo wrong. The vet DLC dungeons and especially their HM versions have been clearly designed for the top 5% players and and only doable by those top 5% . That's ok as a design choice (there needs to be an incentive for progress for those who enjoy... well.. progression) but to pretend that they're easy or not make a real difference between players is just plain and flatout wrong.
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on April 30, 2018 2:13PM3 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »I said it before, and I say it again: put light attacks on the same global cooldown as skills. This is really the one change that will end this discussion forever and will also make the combat system make sense to new players.
It would also ruin the combat system by making it incredibly clunky. May as well just play FFS or Fire Emblem if you're going to change combat to be so turn based.
No, it wouldn't. It would just be treated like another skill. I don't see anyone claiming that not being able to use a million skills in a second is somehow making combat "clunky". You wouldn't be able to light attack weave, and it's a good thing. Some skills would need rework, but overall this would be the best change for the combat system that there could be.
Aside from the fact that, you know, ZOS is now teaching new players to light attack weave in the Level Up Advisor.
That is the most irrelevant statement in regards to this conversation that there could be. Yes, of course they are teaching new players how to do it, because that's the way the system works now. If it worked the way I'm suggesting, you wouldn't need to teach anyone, because it would be intuitive. Removing a single line from the level-up advisor that nobody except people looking for it ever saw would hardly be a dramatic change.
You want light attack weaving removed. Not only has it been a part of the game for a long time, ZOS is now teaching players to do it and buffing light attacks to increase its viability.
From that, I think its pretty clear that ZOS is intending to promote light attack weaving, not suddenly remove it by making it a part of the global ability cool down.4 -
ZeroXFF✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »I said it before, and I say it again: put light attacks on the same global cooldown as skills. This is really the one change that will end this discussion forever and will also make the combat system make sense to new players.
It would also ruin the combat system by making it incredibly clunky. May as well just play FFS or Fire Emblem if you're going to change combat to be so turn based.
No, it wouldn't. It would just be treated like another skill. I don't see anyone claiming that not being able to use a million skills in a second is somehow making combat "clunky". You wouldn't be able to light attack weave, and it's a good thing. Some skills would need rework, but overall this would be the best change for the combat system that there could be.
Aside from the fact that, you know, ZOS is now teaching new players to light attack weave in the Level Up Advisor.
That is the most irrelevant statement in regards to this conversation that there could be. Yes, of course they are teaching new players how to do it, because that's the way the system works now. If it worked the way I'm suggesting, you wouldn't need to teach anyone, because it would be intuitive. Removing a single line from the level-up advisor that nobody except people looking for it ever saw would hardly be a dramatic change.
You want light attack weaving removed. Not only has it been a part of the game for a long time, ZOS is now teaching players to do it and buffing light attacks to increase its viability.
From that, I think its pretty clear that ZOS is intending to promote light attack weaving, not suddenly remove it by making it a part of the global ability cool down.
So because ZOS makes a bad decision I'm supposed to agree with it? Why are there any "nerf this buff that" threads at all then if ZOS is an unquestionable authority? Should we make a church of ZOS if we aren't allowed to question their design decisions?1 -
DeliCreep✭✭✭OP no, just NO! If this game had a dumbed down combat system like WoW, then one could just play WoW instead. Easy is always boring. Also we do not need dps nerfs and light attack weaving should be rewarded.Immortal Redeemer1 -
Ley✭✭✭✭✭
✭Feels like a superficial change that just makes existing content easier for the average player to complete and allows ZOS to raise the DPS requirement for comfortably completing new/future content. In my opinion, the only people who should feel pressure to improve their weaving are people competing for leader-boards.
Side note: In case existing content wasn't way too easy already easy enough for some players, this change should help.Edited by Ley on April 30, 2018 2:51PMLeylith - MagSorc | Leyloth - StamPlar | Leynerd - MagPlar | Leylit - StamBlade | Ley Eviticus - StamDK | Leydor - MagDen | Leylum - StamSorc | Leylux - MagBlade0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »I said it before, and I say it again: put light attacks on the same global cooldown as skills. This is really the one change that will end this discussion forever and will also make the combat system make sense to new players.
It would also ruin the combat system by making it incredibly clunky. May as well just play FFS or Fire Emblem if you're going to change combat to be so turn based.
No, it wouldn't. It would just be treated like another skill. I don't see anyone claiming that not being able to use a million skills in a second is somehow making combat "clunky". You wouldn't be able to light attack weave, and it's a good thing. Some skills would need rework, but overall this would be the best change for the combat system that there could be.
Aside from the fact that, you know, ZOS is now teaching new players to light attack weave in the Level Up Advisor.
That is the most irrelevant statement in regards to this conversation that there could be. Yes, of course they are teaching new players how to do it, because that's the way the system works now. If it worked the way I'm suggesting, you wouldn't need to teach anyone, because it would be intuitive. Removing a single line from the level-up advisor that nobody except people looking for it ever saw would hardly be a dramatic change.
You want light attack weaving removed. Not only has it been a part of the game for a long time, ZOS is now teaching players to do it and buffing light attacks to increase its viability.
From that, I think its pretty clear that ZOS is intending to promote light attack weaving, not suddenly remove it by making it a part of the global ability cool down.
So because ZOS makes a bad decision I'm supposed to agree with it? Why are there any "nerf this buff that" threads at all then if ZOS is an unquestionable authority? Should we make a church of ZOS if we aren't allowed to question their design decisions?
Sigh. Really?
I'm not expecting you to agree. You don't, that's pretty darned obvious.
I'm pointing out that based on observations of what ZOS is doing in the game, ZOS isn't moving in that direction, making your desires increasingly unlikely.
Question away. I'm just being realistic about how likely ZOS is to reverse direction.1 -
Elsterchen✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »I said it before, and I say it again: put light attacks on the same global cooldown as skills. This is really the one change that will end this discussion forever and will also make the combat system make sense to new players.
It would also ruin the combat system by making it incredibly clunky. May as well just play FFS or Fire Emblem if you're going to change combat to be so turn based.
No, it wouldn't. It would just be treated like another skill. I don't see anyone claiming that not being able to use a million skills in a second is somehow making combat "clunky". You wouldn't be able to light attack weave, and it's a good thing. Some skills would need rework, but overall this would be the best change for the combat system that there could be.
Aside from the fact that, you know, ZOS is now teaching new players to light attack weave in the Level Up Advisor.
That is the most irrelevant statement in regards to this conversation that there could be. Yes, of course they are teaching new players how to do it, because that's the way the system works now. If it worked the way I'm suggesting, you wouldn't need to teach anyone, because it would be intuitive. Removing a single line from the level-up advisor that nobody except people looking for it ever saw would hardly be a dramatic change.
You want light attack weaving removed. Not only has it been a part of the game for a long time, ZOS is now teaching players to do it and buffing light attacks to increase its viability.
From that, I think its pretty clear that ZOS is intending to promote light attack weaving, not suddenly remove it by making it a part of the global ability cool down.
So because ZOS makes a bad decision I'm supposed to agree with it? Why are there any "nerf this buff that" threads at all then if ZOS is an unquestionable authority? Should we make a church of ZOS if we aren't allowed to question their design decisions?
Sigh. Really?
I'm not expecting you to agree. You don't, that's pretty darned obvious.
I'm pointing out that based on observations of what ZOS is doing in the game, ZOS isn't moving in that direction, making your desires increasingly unlikely.
Question away. I'm just being realistic about how likely ZOS is to reverse direction.
@VaranisArano I feel this isn't about reversing direction. Its more about pointing out those parts related to combat that seem to have been forgotten during developement of current changes. No-one expects perfection, but forgetting of all stamina based characters when the major goal is to improve endgame viability for all roles seems like a major oversight that urgently needs to be adressed.
After all the combat changes do not only affect gameplay of those maining a magica toon, but everyone they encounter in PVP and everyone they share a spot with in PVE endgame. Neglegting a big part of the people participating in endgame and claiming to improve gameplay for all just doesn't fit, at all.
Edited by Elsterchen on April 30, 2018 4:09PM0 -
Mudcrabber✭✭✭✭I've never gotten a dps boost out of weaving light attacks ahead of my abilities. If I try to maintain my rotation speed my light attacks get dropped entirely and no extra damage is done. If I slow down my rotation my dps goes down and I still miss most of my light attacks. Seeing other people do it so well is like watching someone juggle knives, and being expected to do the same.
Does it work differently with lightning staves or something?1 -
Tempestwrath✭✭✭Mudcrabber wrote: »I've never gotten a dps boost out of weaving light attacks ahead of my abilities. If I try to maintain my rotation speed my light attacks get dropped entirely and no extra damage is done. If I slow down my rotation my dps goes down and I still miss most of my light attacks. Seeing other people do it so well is like watching someone juggle knives, and being expected to do the same.
Does it work differently with lightning staves or something?
You're not supposed to slow your rotation down. There are gaps in the beginning and tail end of skill animations where you can throw in light attacks, effectively performing two actions at the same time. Figuring it out is a timing and rhythm thing.
I recommend you stand at a dummy and click to light attack and then immediately activate a skill without waiting for the animation. You'll notice both actions occur near simultaneously.
Doing that consistently is, in essence, weaving.0 -
FlamingBeard✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »I said it before, and I say it again: put light attacks on the same global cooldown as skills. This is really the one change that will end this discussion forever and will also make the combat system make sense to new players.
It would also ruin the combat system by making it incredibly clunky. May as well just play FFS or Fire Emblem if you're going to change combat to be so turn based.
No, it wouldn't. It would just be treated like another skill. I don't see anyone claiming that not being able to use a million skills in a second is somehow making combat "clunky". You wouldn't be able to light attack weave, and it's a good thing. Some skills would need rework, but overall this would be the best change for the combat system that there could be.
Aside from the fact that, you know, ZOS is now teaching new players to light attack weave in the Level Up Advisor.
That is the most irrelevant statement in regards to this conversation that there could be. Yes, of course they are teaching new players how to do it, because that's the way the system works now. If it worked the way I'm suggesting, you wouldn't need to teach anyone, because it would be intuitive. Removing a single line from the level-up advisor that nobody except people looking for it ever saw would hardly be a dramatic change.
You want light attack weaving removed. Not only has it been a part of the game for a long time, ZOS is now teaching players to do it and buffing light attacks to increase its viability.
From that, I think its pretty clear that ZOS is intending to promote light attack weaving, not suddenly remove it by making it a part of the global ability cool down.
So because ZOS makes a bad decision I'm supposed to agree with it? Why are there any "nerf this buff that" threads at all then if ZOS is an unquestionable authority? Should we make a church of ZOS if we aren't allowed to question their design decisions?
Why do you want every player's damage to suddenly be lowered?
Do you realize how much longer everything would take if Light Attacks became impossible to weave?
That would be huge loss of DPS in a trial group, suddenly making all trials longer than anyone wants them to be.0 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Thorstienn wrote: »The ceiling and the floor
The higher you raise the floor and the lower you make the ceiling just makes the walls smaller.
That's fine until the walls can no longer support the structure.0 -
Thorstienn✭✭✭OP no, just NO! If this game had a dumbed down combat system like WoW, then one could just play WoW instead. Easy is always boring. Also we do not need dps nerfs and light attack weaving should be rewarded.
I'm not sure how you got to that conclusion from my post
I don't want a dumbed down version. I'm fine with weaving and animation cancelling being a part of the system (even though personally not a fan), and I never suggested longer ability cooldown or tab targeting; so not sure how WOW even came up.
All I said, was LA should not be the deciding factor in DPS. LA weaving would still be rewarded as they still cause damage, injustbdont think they should cause so much.2 -
Thorstienn✭✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »Thorstienn wrote: »The ceiling and the floor
The higher you raise the floor and the lower you make the ceiling just makes the walls smaller.
That's fine until the walls can no longer support the structure.
I get this was supposed to be funny. But that is the opposite way a wall works. Once a wall gets too "tall" it's compressive strength becomes unbalanced and it requires additional lateral support (where we usually construct floors in a multi-storey building) or it will fall down.
To use your analogy; they higher you raise yhr ceiling and the lower you allow the floor, the walls will get higher, until the whole structure falls down.
And I couldn't agree more.0 -
Thorstienn✭✭✭Well patch 4.0.2 is out:
"General
Decreased the damage done by all Light Attacks by approximately 20%.
Decreased the damage done by all Heavy Attacks by approximately 13%."
Personally would of loved a bit more of a reduction, but glad to see this change.
Guess someone out there agreed with me.0 -
ZeroXFF✭✭✭✭✭
✭FlamingBeard wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »I said it before, and I say it again: put light attacks on the same global cooldown as skills. This is really the one change that will end this discussion forever and will also make the combat system make sense to new players.
It would also ruin the combat system by making it incredibly clunky. May as well just play FFS or Fire Emblem if you're going to change combat to be so turn based.
No, it wouldn't. It would just be treated like another skill. I don't see anyone claiming that not being able to use a million skills in a second is somehow making combat "clunky". You wouldn't be able to light attack weave, and it's a good thing. Some skills would need rework, but overall this would be the best change for the combat system that there could be.
Aside from the fact that, you know, ZOS is now teaching new players to light attack weave in the Level Up Advisor.
That is the most irrelevant statement in regards to this conversation that there could be. Yes, of course they are teaching new players how to do it, because that's the way the system works now. If it worked the way I'm suggesting, you wouldn't need to teach anyone, because it would be intuitive. Removing a single line from the level-up advisor that nobody except people looking for it ever saw would hardly be a dramatic change.
You want light attack weaving removed. Not only has it been a part of the game for a long time, ZOS is now teaching players to do it and buffing light attacks to increase its viability.
From that, I think its pretty clear that ZOS is intending to promote light attack weaving, not suddenly remove it by making it a part of the global ability cool down.
So because ZOS makes a bad decision I'm supposed to agree with it? Why are there any "nerf this buff that" threads at all then if ZOS is an unquestionable authority? Should we make a church of ZOS if we aren't allowed to question their design decisions?
Why do you want every player's damage to suddenly be lowered?
Do you realize how much longer everything would take if Light Attacks became impossible to weave?
That would be huge loss of DPS in a trial group, suddenly making all trials longer than anyone wants them to be.
Really? That's the best argument you have to offer? Because the solution to that is simple - increase damage of all spells by 5-10%. Done, everyone does the same damage when doing the same rotation. With the only difference being, you don't have to break your mouse to do it, and everyone who wasn't trying to break it can do it too (raising the floor).
I'm sick and tired of people who can't see past their nose and think that a change in mechanics is a nerf, as if there are no other numbers to adjust.2 -
FlamingBeard✭✭✭✭✭FlamingBeard wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »I said it before, and I say it again: put light attacks on the same global cooldown as skills. This is really the one change that will end this discussion forever and will also make the combat system make sense to new players.
It would also ruin the combat system by making it incredibly clunky. May as well just play FFS or Fire Emblem if you're going to change combat to be so turn based.
No, it wouldn't. It would just be treated like another skill. I don't see anyone claiming that not being able to use a million skills in a second is somehow making combat "clunky". You wouldn't be able to light attack weave, and it's a good thing. Some skills would need rework, but overall this would be the best change for the combat system that there could be.
Aside from the fact that, you know, ZOS is now teaching new players to light attack weave in the Level Up Advisor.
That is the most irrelevant statement in regards to this conversation that there could be. Yes, of course they are teaching new players how to do it, because that's the way the system works now. If it worked the way I'm suggesting, you wouldn't need to teach anyone, because it would be intuitive. Removing a single line from the level-up advisor that nobody except people looking for it ever saw would hardly be a dramatic change.
You want light attack weaving removed. Not only has it been a part of the game for a long time, ZOS is now teaching players to do it and buffing light attacks to increase its viability.
From that, I think its pretty clear that ZOS is intending to promote light attack weaving, not suddenly remove it by making it a part of the global ability cool down.
So because ZOS makes a bad decision I'm supposed to agree with it? Why are there any "nerf this buff that" threads at all then if ZOS is an unquestionable authority? Should we make a church of ZOS if we aren't allowed to question their design decisions?
Why do you want every player's damage to suddenly be lowered?
Do you realize how much longer everything would take if Light Attacks became impossible to weave?
That would be huge loss of DPS in a trial group, suddenly making all trials longer than anyone wants them to be.
Really? That's the best argument you have to offer? Because the solution to that is simple - increase damage of all spells by 5-10%. Done, everyone does the same damage when doing the same rotation. With the only difference being, you don't have to break your mouse to do it, and everyone who wasn't trying to break it can do it too (raising the floor).
I'm sick and tired of people who can't see past their nose and think that a change in mechanics is a nerf, as if there are no other numbers to adjust.
What it sounds like is that you want all skill to be taken out of the equation when it comes to dealing damage in ESO.
That's not bringing the ceiling closer to the floor, that's giving everyone a jetpack and allowing them to rocket through the ceiling and throwing all logic of combat balance out the window.
You know what taking Light Attacks out of weaving would do? It would creat Stat Sticks that are simply there to increase your tooltips.
All DPS builds would switch to Dual Wield for the extra enchantment slot and spell/weapon damage because there would be no point to use any other weapon type at that point since you can no longer weave.
That's exactly what the balance team at ZOS has said they want to avoid.
What you are asking for would require a COMPLETE destruction of the current combat system and you will get very few agreements about that here.Edited by FlamingBeard on April 30, 2018 7:47PM0 -
HuawaSepp✭✭✭FlamingBeard wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »I said it before, and I say it again: put light attacks on the same global cooldown as skills. This is really the one change that will end this discussion forever and will also make the combat system make sense to new players.
It would also ruin the combat system by making it incredibly clunky. May as well just play FFS or Fire Emblem if you're going to change combat to be so turn based.
No, it wouldn't. It would just be treated like another skill. I don't see anyone claiming that not being able to use a million skills in a second is somehow making combat "clunky". You wouldn't be able to light attack weave, and it's a good thing. Some skills would need rework, but overall this would be the best change for the combat system that there could be.
Aside from the fact that, you know, ZOS is now teaching new players to light attack weave in the Level Up Advisor.
That is the most irrelevant statement in regards to this conversation that there could be. Yes, of course they are teaching new players how to do it, because that's the way the system works now. If it worked the way I'm suggesting, you wouldn't need to teach anyone, because it would be intuitive. Removing a single line from the level-up advisor that nobody except people looking for it ever saw would hardly be a dramatic change.
You want light attack weaving removed. Not only has it been a part of the game for a long time, ZOS is now teaching players to do it and buffing light attacks to increase its viability.
From that, I think its pretty clear that ZOS is intending to promote light attack weaving, not suddenly remove it by making it a part of the global ability cool down.
So because ZOS makes a bad decision I'm supposed to agree with it? Why are there any "nerf this buff that" threads at all then if ZOS is an unquestionable authority? Should we make a church of ZOS if we aren't allowed to question their design decisions?
Why do you want every player's damage to suddenly be lowered?
Do you realize how much longer everything would take if Light Attacks became impossible to weave?
That would be huge loss of DPS in a trial group, suddenly making all trials longer than anyone wants them to be.
Really? That's the best argument you have to offer? Because the solution to that is simple - increase damage of all spells by 5-10%. Done, everyone does the same damage when doing the same rotation. With the only difference being, you don't have to break your mouse to do it, and everyone who wasn't trying to break it can do it too (raising the floor).
I'm sick and tired of people who can't see past their nose and think that a change in mechanics is a nerf, as if there are no other numbers to adjust.
Im mean, well, you're right.
But clicking your left mouse button one time every second isn't that exhausting.
I think it's much harder to do a clean rotation for the most people.
To know the priority of your skills.
If you have 2 DOTs with a 8 sec cooldown and a 10 sec DOT with a higher priority, you delay the 8sec DOT for the 10sec dot and the next time you don't bring the two 8 sec DOTs together.
You do DOT-Spammable-DOT.
I sometimes weapon swap every second for like 8 sec.PTS-EU0 -
ZeroXFF✭✭✭✭✭
✭FlamingBeard wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »I said it before, and I say it again: put light attacks on the same global cooldown as skills. This is really the one change that will end this discussion forever and will also make the combat system make sense to new players.
It would also ruin the combat system by making it incredibly clunky. May as well just play FFS or Fire Emblem if you're going to change combat to be so turn based.
No, it wouldn't. It would just be treated like another skill. I don't see anyone claiming that not being able to use a million skills in a second is somehow making combat "clunky". You wouldn't be able to light attack weave, and it's a good thing. Some skills would need rework, but overall this would be the best change for the combat system that there could be.
Aside from the fact that, you know, ZOS is now teaching new players to light attack weave in the Level Up Advisor.
That is the most irrelevant statement in regards to this conversation that there could be. Yes, of course they are teaching new players how to do it, because that's the way the system works now. If it worked the way I'm suggesting, you wouldn't need to teach anyone, because it would be intuitive. Removing a single line from the level-up advisor that nobody except people looking for it ever saw would hardly be a dramatic change.
You want light attack weaving removed. Not only has it been a part of the game for a long time, ZOS is now teaching players to do it and buffing light attacks to increase its viability.
From that, I think its pretty clear that ZOS is intending to promote light attack weaving, not suddenly remove it by making it a part of the global ability cool down.
So because ZOS makes a bad decision I'm supposed to agree with it? Why are there any "nerf this buff that" threads at all then if ZOS is an unquestionable authority? Should we make a church of ZOS if we aren't allowed to question their design decisions?
Why do you want every player's damage to suddenly be lowered?
Do you realize how much longer everything would take if Light Attacks became impossible to weave?
That would be huge loss of DPS in a trial group, suddenly making all trials longer than anyone wants them to be.
Really? That's the best argument you have to offer? Because the solution to that is simple - increase damage of all spells by 5-10%. Done, everyone does the same damage when doing the same rotation. With the only difference being, you don't have to break your mouse to do it, and everyone who wasn't trying to break it can do it too (raising the floor).
I'm sick and tired of people who can't see past their nose and think that a change in mechanics is a nerf, as if there are no other numbers to adjust.
What it sounds like is that you want all skill to be taken out of the equation when it comes to dealing damage in ESO.
That's not bringing the ceiling closer to the floor, that's giving everyone a jetpack and allowing them to rocket through the ceiling and throwing all logic of combat balance out the window.
You know what taking Light Attacks out of weaving would do? It would creat Stat Sticks that are simply there to increase your tooltips.
That's exactly what the balance team at ZOS has said they want to avoid.
Dude what? How would that be "breaking the ceiling" if the worst players' dps increases by 5-10% while the best players' dps stays the same? And how would skill not matter if somebody who did 10k prior to my suggested changes will do 11k, and those who did 50k will still do 50k? Please think before you post. You're really not doing your argument any favors by continuing.0 -
ZeroXFF✭✭✭✭✭
✭FlamingBeard wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »I said it before, and I say it again: put light attacks on the same global cooldown as skills. This is really the one change that will end this discussion forever and will also make the combat system make sense to new players.
It would also ruin the combat system by making it incredibly clunky. May as well just play FFS or Fire Emblem if you're going to change combat to be so turn based.
No, it wouldn't. It would just be treated like another skill. I don't see anyone claiming that not being able to use a million skills in a second is somehow making combat "clunky". You wouldn't be able to light attack weave, and it's a good thing. Some skills would need rework, but overall this would be the best change for the combat system that there could be.
Aside from the fact that, you know, ZOS is now teaching new players to light attack weave in the Level Up Advisor.
That is the most irrelevant statement in regards to this conversation that there could be. Yes, of course they are teaching new players how to do it, because that's the way the system works now. If it worked the way I'm suggesting, you wouldn't need to teach anyone, because it would be intuitive. Removing a single line from the level-up advisor that nobody except people looking for it ever saw would hardly be a dramatic change.
You want light attack weaving removed. Not only has it been a part of the game for a long time, ZOS is now teaching players to do it and buffing light attacks to increase its viability.
From that, I think its pretty clear that ZOS is intending to promote light attack weaving, not suddenly remove it by making it a part of the global ability cool down.
So because ZOS makes a bad decision I'm supposed to agree with it? Why are there any "nerf this buff that" threads at all then if ZOS is an unquestionable authority? Should we make a church of ZOS if we aren't allowed to question their design decisions?
Why do you want every player's damage to suddenly be lowered?
Do you realize how much longer everything would take if Light Attacks became impossible to weave?
That would be huge loss of DPS in a trial group, suddenly making all trials longer than anyone wants them to be.
Really? That's the best argument you have to offer? Because the solution to that is simple - increase damage of all spells by 5-10%. Done, everyone does the same damage when doing the same rotation. With the only difference being, you don't have to break your mouse to do it, and everyone who wasn't trying to break it can do it too (raising the floor).
I'm sick and tired of people who can't see past their nose and think that a change in mechanics is a nerf, as if there are no other numbers to adjust.
Im mean, well, you're right.
But clicking your left mouse button one time every second isn't that exhausting.
I think it's much harder to do a clean rotation for the most people.
To know the priority of your skills.
If you have 2 DOTs with a 8 sec cooldown and a 10 sec DOT with a higher priority, you delay the 8sec DOT for the 10sec dot and the next time you don't bring the two 8 sec DOTs together.
You do DOT-Spammable-DOT.
I sometimes weapon swap every second for like 8 sec.
That may be true, but it's not just a question of complexity, but also about how intuitive the system is. As it is right now, it's not intuitive at all, and a 1-liner you only see once while leveling isn't enough to teach you how to do it, or even whether it's important enough to bother with.1 -
FlamingBeard✭✭✭✭✭FlamingBeard wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »I said it before, and I say it again: put light attacks on the same global cooldown as skills. This is really the one change that will end this discussion forever and will also make the combat system make sense to new players.
It would also ruin the combat system by making it incredibly clunky. May as well just play FFS or Fire Emblem if you're going to change combat to be so turn based.
No, it wouldn't. It would just be treated like another skill. I don't see anyone claiming that not being able to use a million skills in a second is somehow making combat "clunky". You wouldn't be able to light attack weave, and it's a good thing. Some skills would need rework, but overall this would be the best change for the combat system that there could be.
Aside from the fact that, you know, ZOS is now teaching new players to light attack weave in the Level Up Advisor.
That is the most irrelevant statement in regards to this conversation that there could be. Yes, of course they are teaching new players how to do it, because that's the way the system works now. If it worked the way I'm suggesting, you wouldn't need to teach anyone, because it would be intuitive. Removing a single line from the level-up advisor that nobody except people looking for it ever saw would hardly be a dramatic change.
You want light attack weaving removed. Not only has it been a part of the game for a long time, ZOS is now teaching players to do it and buffing light attacks to increase its viability.
From that, I think its pretty clear that ZOS is intending to promote light attack weaving, not suddenly remove it by making it a part of the global ability cool down.
So because ZOS makes a bad decision I'm supposed to agree with it? Why are there any "nerf this buff that" threads at all then if ZOS is an unquestionable authority? Should we make a church of ZOS if we aren't allowed to question their design decisions?
Why do you want every player's damage to suddenly be lowered?
Do you realize how much longer everything would take if Light Attacks became impossible to weave?
That would be huge loss of DPS in a trial group, suddenly making all trials longer than anyone wants them to be.
Really? That's the best argument you have to offer? Because the solution to that is simple - increase damage of all spells by 5-10%. Done, everyone does the same damage when doing the same rotation. With the only difference being, you don't have to break your mouse to do it, and everyone who wasn't trying to break it can do it too (raising the floor).
I'm sick and tired of people who can't see past their nose and think that a change in mechanics is a nerf, as if there are no other numbers to adjust.
Im mean, well, you're right.
But clicking your left mouse button one time every second isn't that exhausting.
I think it's much harder to do a clean rotation for the most people.
To know the priority of your skills.
If you have 2 DOTs with a 8 sec cooldown and a 10 sec DOT with a higher priority, you delay the 8sec DOT for the 10sec dot and the next time you don't bring the two 8 sec DOTs together.
You do DOT-Spammable-DOT.
I sometimes weapon swap every second for like 8 sec.
That may be true, but it's not just a question of complexity, but also about how intuitive the system is. As it is right now, it's not intuitive at all, and a 1-liner you only see once while leveling isn't enough to teach you how to do it, or even whether it's important enough to bother with.
Well at this point, adapt or get left behind. If you want a different combat system, play a different game because what you proposed is 100% not happening.Edited by FlamingBeard on April 30, 2018 8:42PM0 -
I don't mind a big difference in performance due to individual skill gap. I personally prefer a situation like darksouls where someone who is good at it could basically take on an infinite number of scrubs at once. Or, for PvE considerations, I think the current gaps of ceiling around 40k and floor of 10k is an appropriate gap.
What I don't like is the difference in builds having such a large affect. Don't like using bow? That's like 15k dps off the bat right there. Like using 2h? More sacrifice.
It's garbage that the balance between meta builds and non-meta builds is so enormous.2 -
ZeroXFF✭✭✭✭✭
✭FlamingBeard wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »I said it before, and I say it again: put light attacks on the same global cooldown as skills. This is really the one change that will end this discussion forever and will also make the combat system make sense to new players.
It would also ruin the combat system by making it incredibly clunky. May as well just play FFS or Fire Emblem if you're going to change combat to be so turn based.
No, it wouldn't. It would just be treated like another skill. I don't see anyone claiming that not being able to use a million skills in a second is somehow making combat "clunky". You wouldn't be able to light attack weave, and it's a good thing. Some skills would need rework, but overall this would be the best change for the combat system that there could be.
Aside from the fact that, you know, ZOS is now teaching new players to light attack weave in the Level Up Advisor.
That is the most irrelevant statement in regards to this conversation that there could be. Yes, of course they are teaching new players how to do it, because that's the way the system works now. If it worked the way I'm suggesting, you wouldn't need to teach anyone, because it would be intuitive. Removing a single line from the level-up advisor that nobody except people looking for it ever saw would hardly be a dramatic change.
You want light attack weaving removed. Not only has it been a part of the game for a long time, ZOS is now teaching players to do it and buffing light attacks to increase its viability.
From that, I think its pretty clear that ZOS is intending to promote light attack weaving, not suddenly remove it by making it a part of the global ability cool down.
So because ZOS makes a bad decision I'm supposed to agree with it? Why are there any "nerf this buff that" threads at all then if ZOS is an unquestionable authority? Should we make a church of ZOS if we aren't allowed to question their design decisions?
Why do you want every player's damage to suddenly be lowered?
Do you realize how much longer everything would take if Light Attacks became impossible to weave?
That would be huge loss of DPS in a trial group, suddenly making all trials longer than anyone wants them to be.
Really? That's the best argument you have to offer? Because the solution to that is simple - increase damage of all spells by 5-10%. Done, everyone does the same damage when doing the same rotation. With the only difference being, you don't have to break your mouse to do it, and everyone who wasn't trying to break it can do it too (raising the floor).
I'm sick and tired of people who can't see past their nose and think that a change in mechanics is a nerf, as if there are no other numbers to adjust.
Im mean, well, you're right.
But clicking your left mouse button one time every second isn't that exhausting.
I think it's much harder to do a clean rotation for the most people.
To know the priority of your skills.
If you have 2 DOTs with a 8 sec cooldown and a 10 sec DOT with a higher priority, you delay the 8sec DOT for the 10sec dot and the next time you don't bring the two 8 sec DOTs together.
You do DOT-Spammable-DOT.
I sometimes weapon swap every second for like 8 sec.
That may be true, but it's not just a question of complexity, but also about how intuitive the system is. As it is right now, it's not intuitive at all, and a 1-liner you only see once while leveling isn't enough to teach you how to do it, or even whether it's important enough to bother with.
Well at this point, adapt or get left behind. If you want a different combat system, play a different game because what you proposed is 100% not happening.
Neither was 2h weapons counting as 2 set pieces, and look what happened now. Just like you, there were plenty of people before who said it would be broken because "2h weapons would deal too much damage", who just like you can't see past their nose.
What I'm suggesting is a minimal change to an already great combat system that would bring with it a significant QoL improvement, especially for new players who don't have a gaming mouse that they can program to do the weaving for them. This is not the radical change to the system as you make it out to be, and it certainly wouldn't make ESO a different game.
If you think it's not worth it because change is bad and papa ZOS put in 1 line of text to support current gameplay in the current version of the game and therefore what is correct now is always correct, then please stop posting, because that is completely irrelevant to the suggestion itself, and only derails the conversation.1 -
FlamingBeard✭✭✭✭✭FlamingBeard wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »I said it before, and I say it again: put light attacks on the same global cooldown as skills. This is really the one change that will end this discussion forever and will also make the combat system make sense to new players.
It would also ruin the combat system by making it incredibly clunky. May as well just play FFS or Fire Emblem if you're going to change combat to be so turn based.
No, it wouldn't. It would just be treated like another skill. I don't see anyone claiming that not being able to use a million skills in a second is somehow making combat "clunky". You wouldn't be able to light attack weave, and it's a good thing. Some skills would need rework, but overall this would be the best change for the combat system that there could be.
Aside from the fact that, you know, ZOS is now teaching new players to light attack weave in the Level Up Advisor.
That is the most irrelevant statement in regards to this conversation that there could be. Yes, of course they are teaching new players how to do it, because that's the way the system works now. If it worked the way I'm suggesting, you wouldn't need to teach anyone, because it would be intuitive. Removing a single line from the level-up advisor that nobody except people looking for it ever saw would hardly be a dramatic change.
You want light attack weaving removed. Not only has it been a part of the game for a long time, ZOS is now teaching players to do it and buffing light attacks to increase its viability.
From that, I think its pretty clear that ZOS is intending to promote light attack weaving, not suddenly remove it by making it a part of the global ability cool down.
So because ZOS makes a bad decision I'm supposed to agree with it? Why are there any "nerf this buff that" threads at all then if ZOS is an unquestionable authority? Should we make a church of ZOS if we aren't allowed to question their design decisions?
Why do you want every player's damage to suddenly be lowered?
Do you realize how much longer everything would take if Light Attacks became impossible to weave?
That would be huge loss of DPS in a trial group, suddenly making all trials longer than anyone wants them to be.
Really? That's the best argument you have to offer? Because the solution to that is simple - increase damage of all spells by 5-10%. Done, everyone does the same damage when doing the same rotation. With the only difference being, you don't have to break your mouse to do it, and everyone who wasn't trying to break it can do it too (raising the floor).
I'm sick and tired of people who can't see past their nose and think that a change in mechanics is a nerf, as if there are no other numbers to adjust.
Im mean, well, you're right.
But clicking your left mouse button one time every second isn't that exhausting.
I think it's much harder to do a clean rotation for the most people.
To know the priority of your skills.
If you have 2 DOTs with a 8 sec cooldown and a 10 sec DOT with a higher priority, you delay the 8sec DOT for the 10sec dot and the next time you don't bring the two 8 sec DOTs together.
You do DOT-Spammable-DOT.
I sometimes weapon swap every second for like 8 sec.
That may be true, but it's not just a question of complexity, but also about how intuitive the system is. As it is right now, it's not intuitive at all, and a 1-liner you only see once while leveling isn't enough to teach you how to do it, or even whether it's important enough to bother with.
Well at this point, adapt or get left behind. If you want a different combat system, play a different game because what you proposed is 100% not happening.
Neither was 2h weapons counting as 2 set pieces, and look what happened now. Just like you, there were plenty of people before who said it would be broken because "2h weapons would deal too much damage", who just like you can't see past their nose.
What I'm suggesting is a minimal change to an already great combat system that would bring with it a significant QoL improvement, especially for new players who don't have a gaming mouse that they can program to do the weaving for them. This is not the radical change to the system as you make it out to be, and it certainly wouldn't make ESO a different game.
If you think it's not worth it because change is bad and papa ZOS put in 1 line of text to support current gameplay in the current version of the game and therefore what is correct now is always correct, then please stop posting, because that is completely irrelevant to the suggestion itself, and only derails the conversation.
Are you implying that anyone who can Light Attack weave must be using macros to do the work for them?
I simply click my left mouse button between skills and I get results like this:
I'm not even that good at Magblade yet. Just practice and I promise you'll get better. lol
And the two-hander buff was expected for months now, it just didn't make sense in the current ESO combat environment to punish staff, bow, or 2h users by making them sacrifice a set bonus, so they finally remedied that issue, nothing more.
Your false equivalencies do not support your argument and this is still a pointless thread.Edited by FlamingBeard on April 30, 2018 9:50PM0 -
ZeroXFF✭✭✭✭✭
✭FlamingBeard wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »I said it before, and I say it again: put light attacks on the same global cooldown as skills. This is really the one change that will end this discussion forever and will also make the combat system make sense to new players.
It would also ruin the combat system by making it incredibly clunky. May as well just play FFS or Fire Emblem if you're going to change combat to be so turn based.
No, it wouldn't. It would just be treated like another skill. I don't see anyone claiming that not being able to use a million skills in a second is somehow making combat "clunky". You wouldn't be able to light attack weave, and it's a good thing. Some skills would need rework, but overall this would be the best change for the combat system that there could be.
Aside from the fact that, you know, ZOS is now teaching new players to light attack weave in the Level Up Advisor.
That is the most irrelevant statement in regards to this conversation that there could be. Yes, of course they are teaching new players how to do it, because that's the way the system works now. If it worked the way I'm suggesting, you wouldn't need to teach anyone, because it would be intuitive. Removing a single line from the level-up advisor that nobody except people looking for it ever saw would hardly be a dramatic change.
You want light attack weaving removed. Not only has it been a part of the game for a long time, ZOS is now teaching players to do it and buffing light attacks to increase its viability.
From that, I think its pretty clear that ZOS is intending to promote light attack weaving, not suddenly remove it by making it a part of the global ability cool down.
So because ZOS makes a bad decision I'm supposed to agree with it? Why are there any "nerf this buff that" threads at all then if ZOS is an unquestionable authority? Should we make a church of ZOS if we aren't allowed to question their design decisions?
Why do you want every player's damage to suddenly be lowered?
Do you realize how much longer everything would take if Light Attacks became impossible to weave?
That would be huge loss of DPS in a trial group, suddenly making all trials longer than anyone wants them to be.
Really? That's the best argument you have to offer? Because the solution to that is simple - increase damage of all spells by 5-10%. Done, everyone does the same damage when doing the same rotation. With the only difference being, you don't have to break your mouse to do it, and everyone who wasn't trying to break it can do it too (raising the floor).
I'm sick and tired of people who can't see past their nose and think that a change in mechanics is a nerf, as if there are no other numbers to adjust.
Im mean, well, you're right.
But clicking your left mouse button one time every second isn't that exhausting.
I think it's much harder to do a clean rotation for the most people.
To know the priority of your skills.
If you have 2 DOTs with a 8 sec cooldown and a 10 sec DOT with a higher priority, you delay the 8sec DOT for the 10sec dot and the next time you don't bring the two 8 sec DOTs together.
You do DOT-Spammable-DOT.
I sometimes weapon swap every second for like 8 sec.
That may be true, but it's not just a question of complexity, but also about how intuitive the system is. As it is right now, it's not intuitive at all, and a 1-liner you only see once while leveling isn't enough to teach you how to do it, or even whether it's important enough to bother with.
Well at this point, adapt or get left behind. If you want a different combat system, play a different game because what you proposed is 100% not happening.
Neither was 2h weapons counting as 2 set pieces, and look what happened now. Just like you, there were plenty of people before who said it would be broken because "2h weapons would deal too much damage", who just like you can't see past their nose.
What I'm suggesting is a minimal change to an already great combat system that would bring with it a significant QoL improvement, especially for new players who don't have a gaming mouse that they can program to do the weaving for them. This is not the radical change to the system as you make it out to be, and it certainly wouldn't make ESO a different game.
If you think it's not worth it because change is bad and papa ZOS put in 1 line of text to support current gameplay in the current version of the game and therefore what is correct now is always correct, then please stop posting, because that is completely irrelevant to the suggestion itself, and only derails the conversation.
Are you implying that anyone who can Light Attack weave must be using macros to do the work for them?
And the two-hander buff was expected for months now, it just didn't make sense in the current ESO combat environment to punish staff, bow, or 2h users by making them sacrifice a set bonus, so they finally remedied that issue, nothing more.
Your false equivalencies do not support your argument and this is still a pointless thread.
Oh, yeah, invent intentions, because otherwise lying about what I'm saying becomes too obvious.
And yet whenever I or anyone else brought up the suggestion of making 2h weapons counting as 2 set pieces, it got responses from people exactly like you using exactly the same arguments. It's not a false equivalency, it's a perfectly fitting precedent, because in both cases it's a small change to the core system, and it called for the same criticism that boiled down to people thinking that changing one number will ruin the game because for some reason it's the only number that anyone can ever change.
The only pointless part of this thread is everything you said, because it's all just off-topic.0 -
FlamingBeard✭✭✭✭✭FlamingBeard wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »I said it before, and I say it again: put light attacks on the same global cooldown as skills. This is really the one change that will end this discussion forever and will also make the combat system make sense to new players.
It would also ruin the combat system by making it incredibly clunky. May as well just play FFS or Fire Emblem if you're going to change combat to be so turn based.
No, it wouldn't. It would just be treated like another skill. I don't see anyone claiming that not being able to use a million skills in a second is somehow making combat "clunky". You wouldn't be able to light attack weave, and it's a good thing. Some skills would need rework, but overall this would be the best change for the combat system that there could be.
Aside from the fact that, you know, ZOS is now teaching new players to light attack weave in the Level Up Advisor.
That is the most irrelevant statement in regards to this conversation that there could be. Yes, of course they are teaching new players how to do it, because that's the way the system works now. If it worked the way I'm suggesting, you wouldn't need to teach anyone, because it would be intuitive. Removing a single line from the level-up advisor that nobody except people looking for it ever saw would hardly be a dramatic change.
You want light attack weaving removed. Not only has it been a part of the game for a long time, ZOS is now teaching players to do it and buffing light attacks to increase its viability.
From that, I think its pretty clear that ZOS is intending to promote light attack weaving, not suddenly remove it by making it a part of the global ability cool down.
So because ZOS makes a bad decision I'm supposed to agree with it? Why are there any "nerf this buff that" threads at all then if ZOS is an unquestionable authority? Should we make a church of ZOS if we aren't allowed to question their design decisions?
Why do you want every player's damage to suddenly be lowered?
Do you realize how much longer everything would take if Light Attacks became impossible to weave?
That would be huge loss of DPS in a trial group, suddenly making all trials longer than anyone wants them to be.
Really? That's the best argument you have to offer? Because the solution to that is simple - increase damage of all spells by 5-10%. Done, everyone does the same damage when doing the same rotation. With the only difference being, you don't have to break your mouse to do it, and everyone who wasn't trying to break it can do it too (raising the floor).
I'm sick and tired of people who can't see past their nose and think that a change in mechanics is a nerf, as if there are no other numbers to adjust.
Im mean, well, you're right.
But clicking your left mouse button one time every second isn't that exhausting.
I think it's much harder to do a clean rotation for the most people.
To know the priority of your skills.
If you have 2 DOTs with a 8 sec cooldown and a 10 sec DOT with a higher priority, you delay the 8sec DOT for the 10sec dot and the next time you don't bring the two 8 sec DOTs together.
You do DOT-Spammable-DOT.
I sometimes weapon swap every second for like 8 sec.
That may be true, but it's not just a question of complexity, but also about how intuitive the system is. As it is right now, it's not intuitive at all, and a 1-liner you only see once while leveling isn't enough to teach you how to do it, or even whether it's important enough to bother with.
Well at this point, adapt or get left behind. If you want a different combat system, play a different game because what you proposed is 100% not happening.
Neither was 2h weapons counting as 2 set pieces, and look what happened now. Just like you, there were plenty of people before who said it would be broken because "2h weapons would deal too much damage", who just like you can't see past their nose.
What I'm suggesting is a minimal change to an already great combat system that would bring with it a significant QoL improvement, especially for new players who don't have a gaming mouse that they can program to do the weaving for them. This is not the radical change to the system as you make it out to be, and it certainly wouldn't make ESO a different game.
If you think it's not worth it because change is bad and papa ZOS put in 1 line of text to support current gameplay in the current version of the game and therefore what is correct now is always correct, then please stop posting, because that is completely irrelevant to the suggestion itself, and only derails the conversation.
Are you implying that anyone who can Light Attack weave must be using macros to do the work for them?
And the two-hander buff was expected for months now, it just didn't make sense in the current ESO combat environment to punish staff, bow, or 2h users by making them sacrifice a set bonus, so they finally remedied that issue, nothing more.
Your false equivalencies do not support your argument and this is still a pointless thread.
Oh, yeah, invent intentions, because otherwise lying about what I'm saying becomes too obvious.
And yet whenever I or anyone else brought up the suggestion of making 2h weapons counting as 2 set pieces, it got responses from people exactly like you using exactly the same arguments. It's not a false equivalency, it's a perfectly fitting precedent, because in both cases it's a small change to the core system, and it called for the same criticism that boiled down to people thinking that changing one number will ruin the game because for some reason it's the only number that anyone can ever change.
The only pointless part of this thread is everything you said, because it's all just off-topic.
Do you realize how complicated it would be to rework the tooltips of every single popularly-used DPS skill in the game to compensate for lack of being able to weave light attacks?
If the answer is yes, then you now see why it will never happen.0 -
Thorstienn✭✭✭b.bredfeldtub17_ESO wrote: »I don't mind a big difference in performance due to individual skill gap. I personally prefer a situation like darksouls where someone who is good at it could basically take on an infinite number of scrubs at once. Or, for PvE considerations, I think the current gaps of ceiling around 40k and floor of 10k is an appropriate gap.
What I don't like is the difference in builds having such a large affect. Don't like using bow? That's like 15k dps off the bat right there. Like using 2h? More sacrifice.
It's garbage that the balance between meta builds and non-meta builds is so enormous.
I'm not sure why you think these changes wouldn't still leave a difference in performance. The best players will still perform better than everyone else.
LA Spammers get 10k, the beverage player get 20-25k, good players get 30+k, and the "best" are pulling 40+k. That's a big gap that's unnecessary in an MMO. Who does ZoS balance content for?2 -
FlamingBeard✭✭✭✭✭Thorstienn wrote: »b.bredfeldtub17_ESO wrote: »I don't mind a big difference in performance due to individual skill gap. I personally prefer a situation like darksouls where someone who is good at it could basically take on an infinite number of scrubs at once. Or, for PvE considerations, I think the current gaps of ceiling around 40k and floor of 10k is an appropriate gap.
What I don't like is the difference in builds having such a large affect. Don't like using bow? That's like 15k dps off the bat right there. Like using 2h? More sacrifice.
It's garbage that the balance between meta builds and non-meta builds is so enormous.
I'm not sure why you think these changes wouldn't still leave a difference in performance. The best players will still perform better than everyone else.
LA Spammers get 10k, the beverage player get 20-25k, good players get 30+k, and the "best" are pulling 40+k. That's a big gap that's unnecessary in an MMO. Who does ZoS balance content for?
What makes it so bad that you have to be skilled to produce good numbers?
Light attack spammers should remain in the pits compared to weavers because the weavers are putting actual effort into their rotation, so they get rewarded with higher DPS.
If you want mind-numbing ability spam, go play one of the dozens of other MMORPGs out there.Edited by FlamingBeard on April 30, 2018 10:29PM1 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Build and video please.You can currently do 30k+ with just light attacks on the PTS. How is that for raising the floor? Or is spamming one button still too much?
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
Thorstienn✭✭✭FlamingBeard wrote: »Thorstienn wrote: »b.bredfeldtub17_ESO wrote: »I don't mind a big difference in performance due to individual skill gap. I personally prefer a situation like darksouls where someone who is good at it could basically take on an infinite number of scrubs at once. Or, for PvE considerations, I think the current gaps of ceiling around 40k and floor of 10k is an appropriate gap.
What I don't like is the difference in builds having such a large affect. Don't like using bow? That's like 15k dps off the bat right there. Like using 2h? More sacrifice.
It's garbage that the balance between meta builds and non-meta builds is so enormous.
I'm not sure why you think these changes wouldn't still leave a difference in performance. The best players will still perform better than everyone else.
LA Spammers get 10k, the beverage player get 20-25k, good players get 30+k, and the "best" are pulling 40+k. That's a big gap that's unnecessary in an MMO. Who does ZoS balance content for?
What makes it so bad that you have to be skilled to produce good numbers?
Light attack spammers should remain in the pits compared to weavers because the weavers are putting actual effort into their rotation, so they get rewarded with higher DPS.
If you want mind-numbing ability spam, go play one of the dozens of other MMORPGs out there.
I have still never once said LA Spammers should pull higher DPS. In fast my opinion of lowering LA would put them further down.
I have also constantly said that weavers should get more DPS. My whole point has been that LA (even after the 20% decrease today) is 25% of a parse(they are writing for 30+k). That is a huge margin of error for an MMO (uses internet: lag spikes etc).
I want to and I do still use LA between abilities.
And I will continue playing this game because I like it. That doesn't mean I don't want it to improve (obviously in the ways I would like it too), and voicing my opinion is the only way that could possibly happen.2
