ezeepeezee wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

I love Blobs. He’s the reason I can afford the gear to play ANYTHING competitively. Lol.

To say Stams overpowered is nuts. Stam Wardens are hard to kill (compared to stamblade or StamDKs)but I wouldn’t go as far as to say they are overpowered. They die too lol.

Overpreforming. Not overpowered

Let’s define some terms. By overpowered do you mean “I can’t kill them?” and by overperforming do you mean “Stams have an easier time killing folks than magickas?”

I unno, I’ve watched some of your buddy Blobs’ bombblade videos and he seemed to be having a great go of it. Tho I think he plays EU. Perhaps magicka is overperforming on that server hehehehe

This is actually my exact issue. Stam doesn't have a way to absolutely decimate huge groups like magicka does. If our metric for performance is killing efficiency, magicka definitely takes the mantle.

That is just bomblade... Have you seem the stuff stamwarden does... it renders what you said almost totally wrong. But if you stack up that much then to bad for you

i would only say dodge roll over performs and passive dodge chance. i would love to see a change where you cant dodge if you are cc'd

example... You shouldn't be able to fear a guy and have your incap miss while hes holding his head screaming...

Vapirko wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

@NyassaV you’re just coming off as someone who gets stomped by stamina builds all the time and would rather have them nerfed than get better. But don’t worry they are getting indirectly nerfed next patch thanks to the myriad of new skills and buffs coming to magicka users. But something tells me that won’t make much of a difference for you.

Even if Magicka was getting big buffs in the next patch which I don't think they are. Stamina would still be better because of their mobility. Generally speaking Magicka pretty much needs to use multiple utility sets to function as well as having sustained damage instead of burst damage. So what you end up having is Magicka users having to try to find a way to be tanky in light armor because there aren't really any good Magicka heavy armor sets, as well as being slow with low burst damage. Magicka shines with the group utility they provide but if you don't have a group or you play a smaller group you are better off playing stamina

True, but here’s where we have to be careful with these kinds of blanket posts regarding one entire playstyle as in “stamina is op,” because magicka builds do have far better access to skills and imo a good mag sorc or magblade can be just as bursty as a stam build but it takes more skill to do so and has less viability against multiple opponents at once where as stam just drops DBoS and and goes with steel tornado, reverse slice etc. But because mag already has the option of range, many many class skills with varying effects and shields it’s a tricky balance to just say oh make them tankier or here’s snare removal built into the light armor shield or whatever. I really don’t think we should say that stamina is over performing it’s just too much of a generalization, as we all know Stam DKs, sorcs and Templars are pretty well balanced or evenness unfer performing in some areas. Am I against mag builds have access to a snare removal? No, I think it’s okay to have one as long as it’s not attached to a bunch of other op stuff and we’d have to start with that and then see what else needs adjustment. I’m a stam sorc main and primarily play stam but I can jump on my ranged magblade after months of not playing and still be amazed and how I can stop people from even getting near me before they’re dead. Part of playing that is learning to stay at range and use that distance to avoid getting locked down. And I can easily see how a built in snare removal would make the class way to difficult to fight against.

Consider this. A magsorc has about the same potential to reset a fight as a stamblade. However due to the fact that stamina abilities are 20% less in cost most stamina builds will outlast the sorc

JumpmanLane wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

OMG Blobs voted yes, my life is complete

Aren’t most of his builds magicka bombblade sorts of things?

And MagDKs, yes.

Not surprising at all that the majority vote is no. [Edited to remove baiting comment]. Also, what is "preforming"?

No. The fact that most streamers play Stam, your top 5 duelists in the past few tournaments were primarily Stam, and decent magicka players have begun to cut their own magicka with Stamina is a COMPLETE coincidence.

A majority of pvpers play Stam, not because of its damage potential and survivability but because it's a rewarding and skillbased playstyle.

Honestly, I feel like everyone here knew exactly how this poll was going to swing before they even clicked the link. The amount of chapped stamdks on the forum alone is enough to tilt the poll. Add in the players that don't want their dbos kill combo taken away and stamblades that have already endured a two year witch hunt, and you have the current results.

The ego of some players is baffling. There are players in this very poll that will argue against a Stam nerf till they almost pass out and in the same breath brag to their friends and rivals about how they can destroy almost anyone 1v1. That means they're basically saying that they're just soooo godly they can take their weak/ok class and perform miracles on the rest of us common folk.

Oh, if they can't 1v1 that other player? Well then whatever that class/playstyle is definitely needs a nerf.


Edit:

I wanted to add that I only think Stam does well because of how the game is setup. Instant damage is always prioritized vs cooked damage. Since most Stam setups rely on instant bursts, break free takes at least 1 second to animate if done immediately, and weapon damage to Stam ratio scaling is pretty good at the current moment, this causes the Stam meta to reign supreme in a game that refuses to let most of its playerbase dip below 100 ping.

It's why snipe ruins a good 1vX, why leaps/dawnbreaker into execute combos almost always work, and why most of our elder scrolls war heroes are forever rolling around cyrodiil.

melloni_aleb16_ESO wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

melloni_aleb16_ESO wrote: »

no,
and stop asking for nerf . Only stamina warden is totally broken ( it would be for me to eliminate the warden from the game , it's a Pay-to-win)

"
all the most cancerous classes are magicka " ( now ) ..and all organized groups (with insane spam of aoe skills) are 99% magicka classes not stamina ...

Aside from Destro ult it's stam Warden. If you actually read here you'll see that no one is asking to nerf stamina but instead make it so magicka can actually break free and roll once or twice

Are you kidding me? XD

My dk magicka build have 16-20k of stamina for perma block break free , roll dodge( ( i don't need it really..) etc .
Do we talk about the mist form in heavy magicka? it's a legalized cheat , I would say not to increase the stamina .

My Magicka sorc " with the most used build " has 40+magicka , 1500 stam regen and 14k of stamina ( more or less ) with right cp my stamina sustain/break free is....even too much
etc etc etc ....

the fact that magicka classes have to handle stamina is to prevent them from being immortal between roll dodge , break free e spam difensive shields ...in practice as the sorcerer is already now with a correct build LOL ! ...add the questionable ultimate as the restoration Staff ... .
I would say that " some things " should be reviewed definitely, do not increase the sustain of the stamina on the magicka class


instead by users of magicka and stamina classes , I would like to understand why with 2500 of spell damage I make " holes in the wall " (in pvp) with magicka toons , and my stamina char must have at least 3500 - 4000k of WD .....Mystery or ,
why I have to spam my 2H executioner ( 4,5, 6 times) on a character who spamming healing ward over and over and over ...
would not it be a finisher? I know that healing ward works like that, but it's a totally wrong mechanic..


I could go on about how much the magicka classes actually are much better than the stamina class " in normal use in pvp/duel " .
sure then there are " the strongest players, the best streamer " that they say : the dk stamina in medium is OP !! , but then they play MagDK or Magicka Sorc

I do not care about pve

sorry for my bad english and the " wall of text " ! X)

Funny you mention DK, the class that gets both Magicka and Stamina back from their sustain skill. Be it shoddy or not. Nightblade can't do that. Warden can't do that (thank god), sorc pretty much can't, and templar has a terrible stamina sustain skill while having the best magicka sustain in the game (it's stationary so it's balanced I guess)

No offense, but if you're all just saying the StamWarden is super OP, because that is what you read or you're just repeating what you keep reading, cause everyone keeps repeating it ... it just muddies the waters. The StamWarden is not OP. It isn't even all that competitive to be honest. If you play a lot of PVP or (omg) actually played a StamWarden you know that it can be a tanky build, but there are lots of ways to put together a tanky build. And people just ignore the tanky builds anyway in PVP.


You don't see them (StamWardens) on any of the PVP Leaderboards. You don't see people flocking to make StamWardens in PVP. If you get the "Kill Enemy Wardens" Bounty you'll do anything to drop it and beg someone, anyone, to the share anything else. Not because you just can't kill the enemy Wardens or they just kill you (hardly), it is because you can't even find anyone playing Wardens to kill.

Yet with no one really playing them in PVP, and then those that do play them PVP not doing well at all on any of the Leaderboards (pfft forget Trial boards, even worse for Wardens), still somehow "everyone" knows that StamWardens are the most OP class/builds in PVP. <sigh> After SummerSet drops and anyone can run a Warden I will be a lot of disappointed folk after investing in a Mag/Stam-Warden and finding out it's actually pretty meh and not getting this OP indestructible killing machine they keep reading about. Cause everyone keeps repeating it, cause everyone is repeating it.

The StamWarden has been heavily nerfed now. A large amount of Warden skills have been or continue to be "broken". Right now literally no StamWarden slots Birds , fewer slot Sub Assault (and with the big nerf coming, those will dwindle). It's the only class where slotting even 2-3 class skills is considered odd, with most slotting 0 or just 1.

I used to play a StamWarden as a Warden, ie. I slotted a lot of the Warden (7-8) class skills. It was fun and reasonably effective.

After all the heavy nerfs and the comparative upgrades in all the other classes that is happening, I'm currently down to slotting one class skill, the Sub Assault. When Summerset comes out there is every indication that most will drop that skill as it will no longer be very effective when compared to any number of non-class skills. It just doesn't seem right to have a class where one is laughed at for even slotting 1 or 2 of the class skills, but that is where the StamWarden will be.

And if you are slotting 0 class (Warden) skills, then you're just better making a StamXXX of some other class. Since you won't be slotting any Warden skills, a lot of the Warden passives don't make sense, so ... why do it? You can DW, 2H, S&B just as well if not better AND you'll get some options on some decent class skills and applicable passives somewhere else. Bottom line all will you lose/gain with a StamWarden is a some nice healing / sustain from the passives, but nothing else. All the other classes are getting buffed for self healing as well. So that advantage is lessened, if not gone. Regardless a few CP points makes up for the the healing passive's issue. Going with some other classes fixes getting decent skills to slot and getting some better, usable, passives makes a lot more sense. It is sort of dead class right now, and looks to remain so for the near future at least.

NyassaV wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

@NyassaV you’re just coming off as someone who gets stomped by stamina builds all the time and would rather have them nerfed than get better. But don’t worry they are getting indirectly nerfed next patch thanks to the myriad of new skills and buffs coming to magicka users. But something tells me that won’t make much of a difference for you.

Even if Magicka was getting big buffs in the next patch which I don't think they are. Stamina would still be better because of their mobility. Generally speaking Magicka pretty much needs to use multiple utility sets to function as well as having sustained damage instead of burst damage. So what you end up having is Magicka users having to try to find a way to be tanky in light armor because there aren't really any good Magicka heavy armor sets, as well as being slow with low burst damage. Magicka shines with the group utility they provide but if you don't have a group or you play a smaller group you are better off playing stamina

True, but here’s where we have to be careful with these kinds of blanket posts regarding one entire playstyle as in “stamina is op,” because magicka builds do have far better access to skills and imo a good mag sorc or magblade can be just as bursty as a stam build but it takes more skill to do so and has less viability against multiple opponents at once where as stam just drops DBoS and and goes with steel tornado, reverse slice etc. But because mag already has the option of range, many many class skills with varying effects and shields it’s a tricky balance to just say oh make them tankier or here’s snare removal built into the light armor shield or whatever. I really don’t think we should say that stamina is over performing it’s just too much of a generalization, as we all know Stam DKs, sorcs and Templars are pretty well balanced or evenness unfer performing in some areas. Am I against mag builds have access to a snare removal? No, I think it’s okay to have one as long as it’s not attached to a bunch of other op stuff and we’d have to start with that and then see what else needs adjustment. I’m a stam sorc main and primarily play stam but I can jump on my ranged magblade after months of not playing and still be amazed and how I can stop people from even getting near me before they’re dead. Part of playing that is learning to stay at range and use that distance to avoid getting locked down. And I can easily see how a built in snare removal would make the class way to difficult to fight against.

Consider this. A magsorc has about the same potential to reset a fight as a stamblade. However due to the fact that stamina abilities are 20% less in cost most stamina builds will outlast the sorc

Ok yes stam abilities cost less, BUT, magicka almost always has a mag pool that is higher than a stam pool by anywhere from 4K to 10k. I’d say the average stam build has 34k stam and on a mag build it’s easy to hit 39k. On the extreme you have stam builds working with a little over 30k stam and mag builds that go as high as 44k maybe more? You’re picking very select facts and ignoring some important points. So now you’re calling for stamina nerfs based on “facts” that fit your agenda. And this is why classes and skills end up becoming trash. I have no more of an issue sustaining on my magblade or magplar than I do any of my stam classes. In fact stamplar is downright painful in the sustain department and stamina warden is the exception in that it’s too easy to sustain.

Nope